[reyb]

After a brief deliberation on Article 1 - Whether the body of Christ be in this sacrament in very truth, or merely as in a figure or sign? (see Question 75: Of The Change Of Bread And Wine Into The Body And Blood Of Christ\ 75 Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologiae), the conclusion is simple.

Hilary (Hilarius Pictaviensis) says (De Trin. viii): "There is no room for doubt regarding the truth of Christ's body and blood; for now by our Lord's own declaring and by our faith His flesh is truly food, and His blood is truly drink."

And Ambrose says (De Sacram. vi): "As the Lord Jesus Christ is God's true Son so is it Christ's true flesh which we take, and His true blood which we drink."

Thomas Aquinas “The presence of Christ's true body and blood in this sacrament cannot be detected by sense, nor understanding, but by faith alone, which rests upon Divine authority. Hence, on Luke 22:19: "This is My body which shall be delivered up for you,"

Cyril says: "Doubt not whether this be true; but take rather the Saviour's words with faith; for since He is the Truth, He lieth not."

And because of the above presentation, the Eucharist is now a true body and blood of Jesus Christ.
----------------------------
Let us discuss this once and for all because as Apostle Paul said (see 1 Cor 10:14-22) …

‘…Do I mean then that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons.’

…and I know nobody wanted it even me. Thus, I will say it again ‘Christ is not present in the Eucharist’.


Okay. Just for the sake of our discussion, let us consider that this ‘bread and wine’ becomes the true ‘body and blood’ of Jesus and that this ‘act’ is not just for remembering but also a true offering of a true body and blood of Christ which is an offering in heaven ‘on-going and complete’. Why then you need to eat it day after day after day after day and …after day if not in every hour and in everyday.

What I mean is this, it is written in John 6:53-58 that the flesh and blood of the Son of Man is real ‘food and real drink’ and whoever eats 'this' flesh and drinks 'this' blood remains in Him (Jesus) and I (Jesus) in him.’…...and he(whosooever it eat) will not go hungry.

Now, since you said the ‘Eucharist’ becomes the true body and blood of Jesus (and everything you claim about it). Why then you need to eat it again and again and……again?

[peach_cube]

reyb, on 27 January 2010 - 06:12 AM, said:

Why then you need to eat it again and again and……again?

Um...we don't have to receive the Eucharist "day after day after day." The minimum requirement is once a year. However, why wouldn't you want to receive Christ in the Eucharist everyday if you were able?

[reyb]

peach_cube, on 27 January 2010 - 07:14 AM, said:

Um...we don't have to receive the Eucharist "day after day after day." The minimum requirement is once a year. However, why wouldn't you want to receive Christ in the Eucharist everyday if you were able?

Because if the Eucharist is for real then I do not need to eat it again as it is written in John 6:53-58

‘… For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.’.

Meaning, if you eat the true body and drink the true blood of Jesus. He is in you and you are in him. Therefore, it is no longer necessary to do it once more because (and I will say it again), He is (already) in you and you are in Him. Thus my question is….

Why do you need to eat it again and again if this Eucharist is for real?

This post has been edited by reyb: 27 January 2010 - 11:10 AM

[CatherineM]

I need him again because I also let things into myself that tend to push God out. We live in a world of wickedness, and I succumb to it as much or more than most, and when I do that, I reject Christ from my life. I have to refill my tanks so to speak.

[mommas_boy]

reyb, on 27 January 2010 - 10:17 AM, said:

Because if the Eucharist is for real then I do not need to eat it again as it is written in John 6:53-58

‘… For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.’.

Meaning, if you eat the true body and drink the true blood of Jesus. He is in you and you are in him. Therefore, it is no longer necessary to do it once more because (and I will say it again), He is (already) in you and you are in Him. Thus my question is….

Why do you need to eat it again and again if this Eucharist is for real?

Yet, Jesus tells us to "do this in rememberance of [him]". He doesn't specify a time frame for ceasing in that command.

[Saint Therese]

We need to "eat" Jesus more than once because of our own sinfulness and tendency towards sin. Also, we only receive what we are disposed to receive.. which means most of us don't recieve much (grace).

[dominicansoul]

CatherineM, on 27 January 2010 - 01:18 PM, said:

I need him again because I also let things into myself that tend to push God out. We live in a world of wickedness, and I succumb to it as much or more than most, and when I do that, I reject Christ from my life. I have to refill my tanks so to speak.

Saint Therese, on 27 January 2010 - 01:31 PM, said:

We need to "eat" Jesus more than once because of our own sinfulness and tendency towards sin. Also, we only receive what we are disposed to receive.. which means most of us don't recieve much (grace).

this

[Mark of the Cross]

CatherineM, on 27 January 2010 - 01:18 PM, said:

I need him again because I also let things into myself that tend to push God out. We live in a world of wickedness, and I succumb to it as much or more than most, and when I do that, I reject Christ from my life. I have to refill my tanks so to speak.

When I take communion I feel the presence of Christ flooding into my body, but as time goes on the darkness seems to close in, by the time I get to the next mass I'm starved for more of the same. We continue to sin again and again but Jesus has a remedy! A cure for what ails us! we need to take it as often as we sin. But I also think that there is a cumulative component. The more I engage in the Eucharist the more easier it becomes to push the darkness back and allow Christ's wisdom to enter my soul. Jesus never advocated us to sit back and let himdo it all, we have to come to him by our love and free choice, the opposite to what led us away.
Reyb, you need to think carefully about what you are saying. You are putting your own interpretations up against 2000 years of study by dedicated scholars and people who are far more knowledgable and intelligent than us. You are even challenging the words of Christ himself. He said "THIS IS my Body which was given up for you. THIS IS my blood of the new covenant which was shed for the many for the remission of sins." Partaking in his supernatural self which is limitless is what will convert our frail bodies into supernatural bodies. :)

[Slappo]

Because he spiritually tastes good.

Jesus is to the soul like oreo's are to the body... except Jesus is healthy and has all the vitamins and minerals you need.


*goes into deep wonder and awe as to whether or not a single host has all the vitamins and minerals needed for a healthy diet*

[reyb]

CatherineM, on 27 January 2010 - 01:18 PM, said:

I need him again because I also let things into myself that tend to push God out. We live in a world of wickedness, and I succumb to it as much or more than most, and when I do that, I reject Christ from my life. I have to refill my tanks so to speak.

mommas_boy, on 27 January 2010 - 01:25 PM, said:

Yet, Jesus tells us to "do this in rememberance of [him]". He doesn't specify a time frame for ceasing in that command.

Saint Therese, on 27 January 2010 - 01:31 PM, said:

We need to "eat" Jesus more than once because of our own sinfulness and tendency towards sin. Also, we only receive what we are disposed to receive.. which means most of us don't recieve much (grace).

I truly understand what you are saying. But why this ‘I in him and you in me’ which is a covenant needed to be renewed? Or you do not know that it is a covenant.

In the following verse which I have already mentioned in the topic starter, in John 6:35-40 ‘… Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty…’ .

If the Eucharist is true and for real why you go hungry and thirsty? Is Jesus a liar?

This post has been edited by reyb: 27 January 2010 - 04:35 PM

[reyb]

Mark of the Cross, on 27 January 2010 - 04:25 PM, said:

When I take communion I feel the presence of Christ flooding into my body, but as time goes on the darkness seems to close in, by the time I get to the next mass I'm starved for more of the same. We continue to sin again and again but Jesus has a remedy! A cure for what ails us! we need to take it as often as we sin. But I also think that there is a cumulative component. The more I engage in the Eucharist the more easier it becomes to push the darkness back and allow Christ's wisdom to enter my soul. Jesus never advocated us to sit back and let himdo it all, we have to come to him by our love and free choice, the opposite to what led us away.
Reyb, you need to think carefully about what you are saying. You are putting your own interpretations up against 2000 years of study by dedicated scholars and people who are far more knowledgable and intelligent than us. You are even challenging the words of Christ himself. He said "THIS IS my Body which was given up for you. THIS IS my blood of the new covenant which was shed for the many for the remission of sins." Partaking in his supernatural self which is limitless is what will convert our frail bodies into supernatural bodies. :)

Slappo, on 27 January 2010 - 04:29 PM, said:

Because he spiritually tastes good.

Jesus is to the soul like oreo's are to the body... except Jesus is healthy and has all the vitamins and minerals you need.


*goes into deep wonder and awe as to whether or not a single host has all the vitamins and minerals needed for a healthy diet*

Again,

reyb, on 27 January 2010 - 04:32 PM, said:

I truly understand what you are saying. But why this ‘I in him and you in me’ which is a covenant needed to be renewed? Or you do not know that it is a covenant.

In the following verse which I have already mentioned in the topic starter, in John 6:35-40 ‘… Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty…’ .

If the Eucharist is true and for real. Why you go hungry and thirsty? Is Jesus a liar?

[Selah]

Quote

If the Eucharist is true and for real. Why you go hungry and thirsty? Is Jesus a liar?

The Eucharist does more than feed our bodies...it feeds our spirits. When we partake of His body and blood, we are filled and our spirits are satisfied.

[HisChildForever]

reyb, on 27 January 2010 - 04:39 PM, said:

Again,



If the Eucharist is true and for real. Why you go hungry and thirsty? Is Jesus a liar?

Those who hunger and thirst for righteousness will find it through Christ. They will find it in the Real Presence and in the salvation He offers.

[Slappo]

reyb, on 27 January 2010 - 04:39 PM, said:

Again,



If the Eucharist is true and for real. Why you go hungry and thirsty? Is Jesus a liar?

I never said it's because I'm hungry... I don't eat oreo's because I'm hungry, I eat them because they are awesome.

[Selah]

Quote

Those who hunger and thirst for righteousness will find it through Christ. They will find it in the Real Presence and in the salvation He offers.

Amen.

[Servus_Mariae]

reyb, on 27 January 2010 - 04:39 PM, said:

If the Eucharist is true and for real. Why you go hungry and thirsty? Is Jesus a liar?

1.) Have you found anything on this earth which perpetually sustains you physically? The manner in which Christ promises to sustain us is not physical primarily (though it does do this as a consequence of His becoming food). His point is that this food is unlike any other which simply nourishes and then passes on. This food sustains us physically and transforms us to our souls.

2.) This notion of "why receive Him more than once because once should be enough" thing...is devoid of love.

[Selah]

I am too lazy to do this right now, but later I will show you some proof that the early Christians not only believed in the Real Presence, but were condemned by the pagans for being cannibals.

When Christ said: "My flesh is real food" he MEANT it.

[USAirwaysIHS]

reyb, on 27 January 2010 - 04:39 PM, said:

Again,



If the Eucharist is true and for real. Why you go hungry and thirsty? Is Jesus a liar?

So, for the sake of argument, if the Eucharist is not true and forreal, you can still go hungry and thirsty, even if you believe in Him, are baptized, etc. So is Jesus a liar anyway?

[Brother Adam]

Scripture refutes your claims.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." John 5:53

"After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer walked with him." John 6:66

"Let God be true and every man a liar." Romans 3:4 Amen.

Your literalistic ripped out of context interpretation of scripture fails.

This post has been edited by Brother Adam: 27 January 2010 - 07:29 PM

[Mark of the Cross]

reyb, on 27 January 2010 - 04:39 PM, said:

Again,



If the Eucharist is true and for real. Why you go hungry and thirsty? Is Jesus a liar?

It's not physical food we are talking about. We will still hunger and thirst for physical food. It is spiritual food and I don't know about others here, but I no longer hunger or thirst spiritually and as long as I continue to grow in faith and partake of the Eucharist and other Rites I will never hunger or thirst. I am fully sated in the knowledge of Jesus the Christ.