[Myles Domini]

Blackmailed priest

Ok, ok having read this I really NEED to go off on one. I'm not angry I'm aghast, amazed...I'm expressionless. I find it incredible that the Church can be so easily cowed. Why have we developed this defeatest attitude? That everytime we come up against a challenge we seem to give in? Be it a protestantising parish, an ugly looking 'new' church, a mcmass etc.etc. Why is it that we seem that the dominant attitude in the Church today is if you cant beat 'em, join 'em? Its insane! How did the Church loose its fighting spirit? I dont get it. For 2,000 years we've kept going on nothing other than our own steam and now we seem to be allowing the 'Smoke of Satan' in through the cracks (You guys all know what I mean). Have we forgotten that the Church was built and endures upon the back of Christ alone? Why do we insist on bending before the face of every single obstacle that seems to come our way as if the gates of Hell could possibly prevail against us if we just stood up against the secularising tide, trusting in the power and promise of God? Its so annoying!! AH, AH, AH!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! !!! :wall: I cant take this anymore!!! I need to play some Linkin Park :cry: (tears of frustration!)

Gee you me where did Catholic confidence dissapear to?? <_<

[Paphnutius]

I think it can be explained by jumping on the bandwagon of saying that the implentation of Vat II left a lot to be desired. It took the Church on a slight detour, but I feel like we are coming back around.

[mp15]

I think it has to do with the church not wanting to be branded as intolerant. The church has lost its fighting spirit and it is sad really. What was once a strong voice of reason is now just a whisper in some locked closet. Maybe someday the church leaders will realize that it's not about what the world thinks, but about what the world needs to hear and fear.

[MC Just]

The Orthodox/Conservative are not cowardly, but the Liberal/heterodox/modernists are.

[Socrates]

Dittos to MC Just.

The Catholic Church is not cowardly, though unfortunately too many of its members are.
Note the bold witness of Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI, proclaiming the truth that the world does not want to hear.
There remain (even in America) many bold Catholics who are living and proclaiming the faith. I think the Church will grow stronger.
Cowardly Catholicism will die out, as it has nothing to stand up for. Courageous Catholicism is the future of the Church.

This post has been edited by Socrates: 25 May 2005 - 12:04 PM

[Ash Wednesday]

I agree with MC Just and Socrates. I don't think we should be wailing and gnashing our teeth in panic, here. We must stay the course and be patient, pray and unite our tribulations with Jesus. The Church has always had problems and experienced evil manifested in various forms. We will still experience fallout from the last century for a while, but I do see budding pockets of hope and orthodoxy. It is the faithful core, receiving life in the sacraments in an authentic way that keeps the Church going.

[guardsman]

We all need to remain calm. The Holy Catholic Church is still leading the way. We're good here. Take a deep breath. :cool:

[Qoheleth]

There are many people within the Church whose surrender to the world is working against the Church, but in some cases I can hardly blame them. In the modern world it's much less convenient to be a Catholic. The world outside the Church presents an appealing argument about what life would be like without all those moral issues we Catholics worry about, an argument that does not simply deny God's existence, but laughs at what it calls the absurdity of the idea.

I think this is worse than lions in the Colisseum. Those who were defeated there were martyrs, and died in Christ and share in the Beatific Vision. Those who are defeated today apostasize and give up their share.

But is it cowardice? So many Catholics are even more poorly educated than I in their faith, and unfortunately are raised in an enviroment where faith means little. When the world presents them with the easy way out, they just don't know better than to take it.

[CatholicCid]

And that is why it is up to the strong few to continue preaching the Word of God and doing his works for those who have fallen... both physically and spiritually
When given the call and only one responds, he acts for millions. For those who wish they had to the courage to do such things... Sadly our world preaches acceptance by peers and following the flow and try to guise it as "uniqueness"

[Kilroy the Ninja]

CatholicCid, on May 28 2005, 01:16 AM, said:

And that is why it is up to the strong few to continue preaching the Word of God and doing his works for those who have fallen... both physically and spiritually
When given the call and only one responds, he acts for millions. For those who wish they had to the courage to do such things... Sadly our world preaches acceptance by peers and following the flow and try to guise it as "uniqueness"

The problem is for the "strong few" when the uneducated masses decide they want to "gang-up" and have the church of their "opinion".

It makes it very hard to want to continue, and it is easier to simply walk away and leave them to their "opinions".

[MC Just]

CatholicCid, on May 28 2005, 01:16 AM, said:

And that is why it is up to the strong few to continue preaching the Word of God and doing his works for those who have fallen... both physically and spiritually
When given the call and only one responds, he acts for millions. For those who wish they had to the courage to do such things... Sadly our world preaches acceptance by peers and following the flow and try to guise it as "uniqueness"

Hehe. Wait till you hear my album. The song "ultramontane" is a battle song towards liberal politicians and the heterodox. Like Father Pavone said on the 25th on EWTN, "We sill stand for it no more".

[Didacus]

Socrates, on May 25 2005, 11:20 AM, said:

Dittos to MC Just.

The Catholic Church is not cowardly, though unfortunately too many of its members are.
Note the bold witness of Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI, proclaiming the truth that the world does not want to hear.
There remain (even in America) many bold Catholics who are living and proclaiming the faith.  I think the Church will grow stronger.
Cowardly Catholicism will die out, as it has nothing to stand up for.  Courageous Catholicism is the future of the Church.

Well said Socrates, well said.

The cowardly catholicism will die out.

Hence, my job is to make certain my children are strong in their faith and continue on, having families of their own who in their respective turn will be strong in the faith.

Is the modern day Catholic church cowardly - YES it is (in North America).

People are afraid to say anything that might offend. The liberals 'respect' people, so they don't offend them. The true catholic believe will respect everyone AND will tell the truth. If the truth offends someone, tooooo bad for them - let them be angry at the truth. Unfortunately, I would say most Catholics (in North America) are too afraid to offend, and thus just sit there and shut their mouth. Read the thread about abortion hitting the work place? Now there is a young gent who porves his courage and tries his best - GOOD JOB dude, carry on!


The future

...

Things are going to slide, slide in all directions
Won't be nothing
Nothing you can measure anymore
The blizzard, the blizzard of the world
Has crossed the threshold
And it has overturned
The order of the soul
When they said repent repent
I wonder what they meant
When they said repent repent
I wonder what they meant
When they said repent repent
I wonder what they meant


...

Leonard Cohen, The Future

[Qoheleth]

The whole abortion thing suggests another reason why cowardly Catholicism might die out. The practicing Catholics will end up with strength in numbers.

[Cam42]

Myles, on May 25 2005, 08:50 AM, said:

Blackmailed priest

Ok, ok having read this I really NEED to go off on one. I'm not angry I'm aghast, amazed...I'm expressionless. I find it incredible that the Church can be so easily cowed. Why have we developed this defeatest attitude? That everytime we come up against a challenge we seem to give in? Be it a protestantising parish, an ugly looking 'new' church, a mcmass etc.etc. Why is it that we seem that the dominant attitude in the Church today is if you cant beat 'em, join 'em? Its insane! How did the Church loose its fighting spirit? I dont get it. For 2,000 years we've kept going on nothing other than our own steam and now we seem to be allowing the 'Smoke of Satan' in through the cracks (You guys all know what I mean). Have we forgotten that the Church was built and endures upon the back of Christ alone? Why do we insist on bending before the face of every single obstacle that seems to come our way as if the gates of Hell could possibly prevail against us if we just stood up against the secularising tide, trusting in the power and promise of God? Its so annoying!! AH, AH, AH!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! !!! :wall: I cant take this anymore!!! I need to play some Linkin Park :cry: (tears of frustration!)

Gee you me where did Catholic confidence dissapear to?? <_<

I understand your frustration.....I really do. But try focusing on the positives. Look to the majesty of Holy Mother Church. Look to the fact that she is growing. Look to the fact that we have a new pope. Look to authentic celebration of the Liturgy. Look to authentic theology.

Look to love. The Church is continuing on. What you ask is nothing new. Every person asks these questions. Assent your will to the Church and then you can find solace in the Truth, which is Jesus Christ, in the Church.

Unlike Lord of the Rings, Trust to Hope, you will find all you need in the Church.

Cam

[DemonSlayer]

No, definitely not as a whole.

[MC Just]

What bothers me is people using Humility and Charity as an excuse not to defend and uphold the faith. People should also keep in mind that Christ did not come to bring peace but the sword. We had to use the sword many times in history, we shouldnt fall into todays modernist and liberal interpretations. This is what makes parts of the 21st century church cowardly.

[MC Just]

True Humility and Charity is letting people know the truth and relieving them of their ignorance.

[Matty_boy]

I think the American Catholic Church is cowardly with the exception of a couple of bishops that actively take part in calling out heretics. The rest just seems to try to avoid the heat. That and the fact that a bunch of the people that knew about the priests doing bad things to kids didn't take a stand to put a definite stop to it. If a Church leader can't protect the people from one of the ranks that are violent towards church members, then maybe he shouldn't be a Church leader.

[toledo_jesus]

I think like a lot of people throughout history, some of our leaders are afraid to take a stand because they perceive what they might lose. Whether that be the respect or tolerance of certain groups, the sense of ecumenism that pervades practically everything nowadays, or whatever...if everyone took a stand there would be no such thing as heroes. We'll remember those great people who stood up for the Faith and didn't compromise what can't be compromised. But...they will always be in the minority.

[Good Friday]

MC Just said:

True Humility and Charity is letting people know the truth and relieving them of their ignorance.

This is right on. I think what we have to remember, though, is that the Truth is not a thing, it's a person -- Jesus Christ, truly God and truly man. The Truth is the whole package, all of the deposit of faith, not just parts of it. It's worthy to fight against abortion and other social evils, but we always have to do it in the context of Christ, otherwise it's useless. It's impossible to get people to accept part of the Truth without offering them the whole package deal, and Jesus is the whole package.