[DameAgnes]

Some of you may remember, last July, the Passionists at St. Joseph's monastery received two postulants, one of whom, Shannon, will be clothed as a novice this month. Please pray for her, and for the other postulant, Sharon, who left to further discern the Lord's will for her.

Also, I thought you might find this very interesting. The sisters have received an "affiliate" (aka and Oblate) who is now living in the monastery, sharing the spirituality, not as a sister but as an "affiliate" or Oblate. This is very cool.

http://www.passionis...org/blog/?p=133

"...Affiliates are Catholic laywomen who, while not becoming professed religious, live within the monastery, sharing our spirituality and assisting us through works of service both within and outside of the cloister. Our monastery may have only two Affiliates. Christie’s first commitment was made after successfully completing an initial 3-month period of life within our cloistered community.

After participating in the Passionist Oblate formation program since 2003, Christie made her Act of Oblation in 2005. During her time as a Passionist Oblate, she received the call to become even more closely associated with our monastery. When she made her formal request, we decided to make use of an indult granted by the Holy See in the1980’s and communicated to us by Fr. Fabiano Giorgini, C.P. to have “Oblates” who live within the cloister in service of the monastery. "

More at the site. I gather that in some ways, this affiliate will doing some of the stuff an extern sister might do, although she will never be a "religious". An oblate is still, as the Benedictines say of their oblates, "a true sister."

This post has been edited by DameAgnes: 15 June 2009 - 10:30 AM

[WisdomSeeker]

DameAgnes, on Jun 15 2009, 05:29 PM, said:

Some of you may remember, last July, the Passionists at St. Joseph's monastery received two postulants, one of whom, Shannon, will be clothed as a novice this month. Please pray for her, and for the other postulant, Sharon, who left to further discern the Lord's will for her.

I will hold them both in my prayers.

[TeresaBenedicta]

I mean no disrespect in this, but I am curious...

What exactly is the point of an oblate living with a community, but not becoming a professed sister? I mean... if you're living the life...

[InHisLove726]

TeresaBenedicta, on Jun 16 2009, 11:15 PM, said:

I mean no disrespect in this, but I am curious...

What exactly is the point of an oblate living with a community, but not becoming a professed sister? I mean... if you're living the life...

I really think it's because you get more acquainted with the spirituality. To me, she is like an extern sister without professing vows. She is free to leave when she wants as well. They provide service to the monastery. Christie, it appears, is an older woman, and it was the only way that she could become more closely united with the nuns without becoming a nun herself. Perhaps she felt a calling to a vocation?



Above is a picture of Christie from the Passionist Nuns' blog. :D

[InHisLove726]

Whitesville, KY's Passionist Monastery only admits women up to 40 years old, with no allowance for belated vocations. I'm putting my money on the fact that she probably felt the call later in life and discovered it was too late to join. ;)

I also did some other research on Erlanger's monastery, and discovered their cut-off is 35!

[VeniteAdoremus]

The Carthusian nuns have a system where some of the sisters are "donata" and don't take vows (but do live the hardcore life, although they might have a set amount of Pater Nosters and Ave's instead of some of the Offices). I can't imagine being able to live that life without vows, but for some it is their vocation, apparently.

And in the old days, noblewomen did it all the time. They might have been too politically or economically important to be allowed to take vows, but they could still live the life that way.

[DameAgnes]

I don't know why anyone would feel the need to judge this move by Christie or the community, or to somehow wonder "why bother without vows." Some exhibit a rather unseemly curiosity tinged with doubt. Why not simply be happy for the community that they have someone who wishes to help them and pray with them, on a day-to-day basis, and for Christie, that she is able to immerse herself in the Passionist spirituality. Seems like they both are giving something to each other, and yes there is ancient precedent for this.

It is ENTIRELY possible that Christie has grown children and would prefer NOT to be vowed, so that - should her kids need her - can leave to be available to them. Perhaps she wants to be able to hang out with grandchildren now and then. There is nothing wrong with that. Many people are attracted to monasticism but know that they do not have the call to live within cloister...that's the whole point of being an oblate, and I do not know of any order that does not consider it's professed lay members to be "fully sisters or brothers."

It is also possible that Christie has a physical limitation that would involve her needing to leave enclosure frequently or could be cost-prohibitive to the community, even if she WERE acceptable in all other ways.

This is a very beautiful thing that we are seeing here. I do not understand why anyone would need to denigrate it.

[VeniteAdoremus]

DameAgnes, on Jun 17 2009, 08:37 PM, said:

I don't know why anyone would feel the need to judge this move by Christie or the community, or to somehow wonder "why bother without vows."

I'm sorry if my comment came over that way!

What I meant to say (and should have in the first place ;) ) is that I think vows can be a source of grace and definitely help with determination, even though I have totally no experience and it's only my feeling. And I think it's extremely cool if you manage to live the rigours of religious life, vowed or not.

[TeresaBenedicta]

DameAgnes, on Jun 17 2009, 02:37 PM, said:

I don't know why anyone would feel the need to judge this move by Christie or the community, or to somehow wonder "why bother without vows."

This is a very beautiful thing that we are seeing here. I do not understand why anyone would need to denigrate it.

I'm sorry. I was just curious, it's not something I've ever seen before and it just seemed strange to me. Like I said in my original question, I mean no disrespect.

[InHisLove726]

DameAgnes, on Jun 17 2009, 01:37 PM, said:

I don't know why anyone would feel the need to judge this move by Christie or the community, or to somehow wonder "why bother without vows." Some exhibit a rather unseemly curiosity tinged with doubt. Why not simply be happy for the community that they have someone who wishes to help them and pray with them, on a day-to-day basis, and for Christie, that she is able to immerse herself in the Passionist spirituality. Seems like they both are giving something to each other, and yes there is ancient precedent for this.

It is ENTIRELY possible that Christie has grown children and would prefer NOT to be vowed, so that - should her kids need her - can leave to be available to them. Perhaps she wants to be able to hang out with grandchildren now and then. There is nothing wrong with that. Many people are attracted to monasticism but know that they do not have the call to live within cloister...that's the whole point of being an oblate, and I do not know of any order that does not consider it's professed lay members to be "fully sisters or brothers."

It is also possible that Christie has a physical limitation that would involve her needing to leave enclosure frequently or could be cost-prohibitive to the community, even if she WERE acceptable in all other ways.

This is a very beautiful thing that we are seeing here. I do not understand why anyone would need to denigrate it.

I don't think it's wrong to ask questions about these things, especially when someone could learn the answer to them. Your statement sounds as if we doubt that she had a vocation and I don't see anyone here who has said anything of the sort. I think it's beautiful that she is living in the monastery with the nuns. There could be a whole bunch of reasons why she's there. I fail to see how asking questions is "degenerating" it or causing doubt. :unsure:

I will keep Christie and all the Passionist nuns in my prayers. Their spirituality is very beautiful. :)

This post has been edited by InHisLove726: 17 June 2009 - 03:53 PM

[DameAgnes]

TeresaBenedicta, on Jun 17 2009, 01:34 PM, said:

I'm sorry. I was just curious, it's not something I've ever seen before and it just seemed strange to me. Like I said in my original question, I mean no disrespect.

I'm sorry if I came off snappish. I think I was actually aggravated about a different thread and carried that into this one.

I am a Benedictine Oblate, myself, and I think perhaps some here do not understand that an oblate or a "third order" is as "vowed" as a lay person can be.

They live their spiritual charism within their life "in the world" but it is not a small thing. Third Order Dominicans, Secular Franciscans, Benedictine Oblates, Third Order Carmelites, they go through formation, make initial promises and then full professions to live their lives in accordance with the rules of their order's founders as fully as possible within the confines of their lay lives. They renew that profession every year (I renew mine this September).

Living the charism of the Order as Oblates or Third Orders, means they're doing volunteer work, they're helping at parishes, they're praying the Divine office and so forth as much as they humanly can, while raising children, marketing, holding down jobs, caring for elders, cutting the lawn, etc.

When these people make their full profession, they usually take another "name in religion" and USE that name, between their brothers and sisters in religion, or in their correspondence. When they sign their profession form at the altar, THAT gets sent to Rome, just like the vowed members of the order. When they die, they are entitled to be buried in monastic habits.

Oblates, unlike Third, or secular orders, are actually "connected" or "affiliated" with specific monastic houses, and considered members of that community. When I am in need, I call my brother monks at my abbey; they are my community. I simply live outside the abbey walls...and if I could go in, like Christie, that would be great, but I am clearly not called to that right now.

The actress Jane Wyman was a Third Order Dominican and was buried in her Dominican robes. If I remember right, Loretta Young was a Benedictine Oblate and buried in Benedictine robes. Rumer Godden, who wrote In This House of Brede was a Benedictine Oblate and I believe Dame Laurentia made a point of calling her "a true sister," of Stanbrook Abbey, which was Godden's abbey, to where she was affiliated.

For that matter, there are plenty of great saints who were not "vowed religious" but third order people and oblates: St. Catherine of Siena, (OP) St. Frances of Rome, (OSB) St. Rose of Lima, (OP) Bl. Georgio Frassati (OP) Servant of God Dorothy Day (OSB) Bl. Margaret of Castillo (OP) St. Martin de Porres (OP) St Henry II (OSB) and lots of others.

And too, St. Bernadette Soubirous, though a vowed sister was also a Third Order Franciscan, buried with their tri-knotted rope belt.

There is a point to living the life "without the vows" we are all called by God to the life we get to live. My heart might long to be in cloister, but in reality, I know it would not have been a good fit for me; I am much too selfish for that. So, this is the life I get to live, and it is a good one, a very rich one. This September I will be teaching people in my parish how to pray the Divine Office with the hopes of getting a prayer group together to pray Lauds and Vespers, daily; an ambitious project. This is something I would never have done or thought of or commited to, without my Benedictine community behind me.

If I may - without being rude - extrapolate this a bit...to think of an oblate or third order (or whatever) as having a lesser quality of religious life and therefore "why bother" would be to look at someone who has a lesser PHYSICAL quality of life and say "why bother living?"

The quality of the spiritual life of someone in Third Orders may be "lesser" (I don't really like that word, but it is certainly different) than the spiritual life of a vowed religious, but it is still very wonderful, and I am very thrilled for Christie that she is getting to live that life to its very depths and fullness.

Once again, sorry if I was sharp. Not intended to wound. Just needed to get it clarified.

[Thomist-in-Training]

DameAgnes said:

And too, St. Bernadette Soubirous, though a vowed sister was also a Third Order Franciscan, buried with their tri-knotted rope belt.

Whoa, really? I'd never heard that. Where did you find that out?

I think oblation is really cool. It's like the medieval system when, as someone mentioned, massive amounts (proportionally) of laywomen lived in monasteries when they were widowed or in their old age in varying degrees of official-ness. I don't know much about it but it seems like a Good Thing, as long as it is managed harmoniously.

[TeresaBenedicta]

Thanks for the further clarification!

[VeniteAdoremus]

Third orders and oblates deserve a thread of their own. (NOT saying your post doesn't belong here, DameAgnes, as a) it's your thread in the first place and b) it was a great read etc etc.)

I think you explained it beautifully and it deserves more attention! Also from the Phatmass community at large.

By the way, we have several other 3rd orders running around here. PP has been an oblate for some time (I am not allowed to tell how long since she started at more or less the minimum age and she doesn't like to recall how long ago that is ;) ), Rosamundi is a lay Dominican, and isn't Gemma a lay Passionist?

[DameAgnes]

VeniteAdoremus, on Jun 18 2009, 01:34 AM, said:

Third orders and oblates deserve a thread of their own. (NOT saying your post doesn't belong here, DameAgnes, as a) it's your thread in the first place and b) it was a great read etc etc.)

I think you explained it beautifully and it deserves more attention! Also from the Phatmass community at large.

By the way, we have several other 3rd orders running around here. PP has been an oblate for some time (I am not allowed to tell how long since she started at more or less the minimum age and she doesn't like to recall how long ago that is ;) ), Rosamundi is a lay Dominican, and isn't Gemma a lay Passionist?

A very good idea, VA!

[VeniteAdoremus]

DameAgnes, on Jun 18 2009, 08:08 PM, said:

A very good idea, VA!

Since I will be a third order regular, I will leave the honour to you, but consider yourself formally requested ;)

[son_of_angels]

I have often thought about it. I am a lay Benedictine Oblate, happily outside the monastery. But, there is a certain grace, a certain peace, that comes from offering yourself completely in the service of a monastery, while not expecting any of the dignity, rank, , indeed, tight monastic schedule that comes with becoming a 'monk.' Think of it like being a member of a Society of Apostolic Life.

There is a Brother Familiar at Clear Creek monastery. He does chores and does stuff that, otherwise, would require monks to miss the offices during the day, for example, picking up visitors from the airport who don't have rides to the monastery, and visiting with guests. It seems to be a wonderful, respectable life. Usually they make private promises that bind them in some way to the monastery.

[Noemi]

In the same day when Shannon will be invested, in Minnesota there will be the funeral Mass of a priest wounded in Iraq some years ago. He almost "lost" his mind. In this year he started communicating but he died.

http://romancatholic...aq-in-2004.html

Have a look at it. Moving. Pray for him also.

[truthfinder]

If anyony wants to see a few pictures of the newly invested go to the sisters' website (not their blog) and look under Mother's notebook.
There are a couple pictures and a write-up that was either a homily or just an explanation of her name.

[the lords sheep]

Passionist Vestition of Sr. Rose Marie of the Merciful Heart of Jesus

Enjoy!

This post has been edited by the lords sheep: 30 June 2009 - 02:36 AM