Full Version: Future Nun Support Group
Yes, it was a true blessing. What a beautiful wedding!
Oh wow! You're so blessed to be able to go. I can't wait until I get to watch investitures, professions, and solemn vows. It must be so beautiful. As of now I'm limited to looking at these pictures: http://olamshrine.com/olam/highlights_ceremonies.htm
Yes, aren't those pictures wonderful! How I long to be a bride of Christ!
QUOTE(All For Jesus @ Aug 7 2005, 06:19 PM)
Yes, aren't those pictures wonderful! How I long to be a bride of Christ!
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I am right along with you there hon! I can't wait til my wedding day!
It's one of those things that's better not to try to give words to. :-p
A recent chat with Mother Abbess has left me hoping for a miracle on my part, but it seems that things will be getting much harder. Pray to St. Anthony for me, and to the Blessed Mother for my mother, please...
Here's a picture from the Solemn Profession!
Wow! Do you have more? I'd love to see more.
Well, I can't get Photo Bucket to work right now. Something is wrong with the uploading. But hopefully I'll be able to share more soon.
Are there pictures from the Profession on their website? Also, could you post the URL again, please? Thanks.
QUOTE(ForHimAlone @ Aug 8 2005, 08:57 PM)
Here's a picture from the Solemn Profession!
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sniff no photo!
QUOTE(Susan @ Aug 13 2005, 10:35 AM)
sniff no photo![right][snapback]684026[/snapback][/right]
I can't see it either...
Oops... Let me try this again..... This may take a little while
Ok, let's see if this one comes through:
QUOTE(Totus Tuus @ Aug 13 2005, 09:15 AM)
Are there pictures from the Profession on their website? Also, could you post the URL again, please? Thanks.
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No, the Solemn Profession on the website took place I believe about 14 years ago.
Oh, yes...I can see the picture now (from the first and second times you posted them) Thanks!
At first I could see them, then they disappeared.
I can see it now. So they wear a white veil until solemn vows or something?
QUOTE(Totus Tuus @ Aug 13 2005, 12:51 PM)
I can see it now. So they wear a white veil until solemn vows or something?
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Yes. During postulancy, they wear the typical jumper and blouse. While in the first year(s) of the noviate before solemn vows, the sister is all in white- veil, habit, and scapular. After professing simple vows, the sister is clothed with the black scapular, as you see Sister wearing in the picture. When the sister takes Solemn Vows, she is clothed with the black veil and receives her choir robe.
Oh, that's so interesting. So, if you don't mind my questions, are the postulants, novices, juniors, and solemnly professed kept separate for the most part, or do they do most things together? You said the Mass was in Latin; was it a Tridentine, or a Latin Novus Ordo?
Um... I'm not sure how they do separations between postulants, novices, juniors, and solemly professed sisters. There are only 13 nuns at the monastery, so I would assume that there wouldn't be as much separation as at other monasteries.
The Mass was said in the Latin Novus Ordo. Usually, their Masses are said in the vernacular, but all of the DIvine Office and the Psalms during Mass are sung in Latin. They have a Cistercian chant, and it's just lovely.
The Mass was said in the Latin Novus Ordo. Usually, their Masses are said in the vernacular, but all of the DIvine Office and the Psalms during Mass are sung in Latin. They have a Cistercian chant, and it's just lovely.
Totus Tuus- How many Poor Clare nuns are there in Hanceville right now? I can imagine it's pretty full there- what a lovely life! Are they going to be sending more nuns to Arizona?
There are over forty nuns in Hanceville, I don't know the exact number, though, now that the "phoenix phive" are gone, and one might be going to France, and one is IN France... There is room for three more externs and no room in the cloister at the moment. I don't know if they plan to send more sisters to Phoenix; there are so many girls interested in entering there, that as soon as they have their monastery I have a feeling they will fill up quickly!
Ok, Because I had thought I had heard that they were full and weren't accepting any new women. Will you be entering as an extern sister then?
QUOTE(ForHimAlone @ Aug 18 2005, 08:07 AM)
Ok, Because I had thought I had heard that they were full and weren't accepting any new women. Will you be entering as an extern sister then?
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Another question, is your formation as an extern sister different than a Sister in the cloister?
QUOTE(jgirl @ Aug 18 2005, 08:56 AM)
Another question, is your formation as an extern sister different than a Sister in the cloister?
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No, formation is the same because you have to go into the cloister for a Canonical Year of formation (just like the cloistered sisters have) during Novitiate. That is the point at which many girls decide to remain in the cloister and not go back as an extern, but some do remain externs, and take their vows without a vow of papal enclosure.
QUOTE(ForHimAlone @ Aug 18 2005, 08:07 AM)
Ok, Because I had thought I had heard that they were full and weren't accepting any new women. Will you be entering as an extern sister then?
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They're pretty full, and I think a girl who has her heart set on the cloister might be asked if she'd rather just entere in Ohio. I will be entering as an extern, yes, but I might become cloistered within a couple of years.
Has anyone ever had a Sister so upset with them that the Sister didnt like you to discern the reigious life???? i had a teacher who is religious sister, yell at me one day because I was discerning a religious vocation!!!! 
Has anyone ever been turned down by a Sister that you asked to help with your vocation that way you arent bugging the Sisters wo live farther away???
Those are just 2 questions I was wondering about!!!!!!!!!
God Bless!!!!!!
Sixtina
Has anyone ever been turned down by a Sister that you asked to help with your vocation that way you arent bugging the Sisters wo live farther away???
Those are just 2 questions I was wondering about!!!!!!!!!
God Bless!!!!!!
Sixtina
Sounds like you've come into contact with slightly impatient nuns who have lost their zeal for the Religious Life and it's meaning... that is, to be there to bring Christ to the world. I can't imagine a sister refusing to do so, especially when asked!
How rude!
QUOTE(zabbazooey @ Aug 18 2005, 06:43 PM)
How rude!
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LOL!!!!!! you both are right!!!!!!!!!! And guess what theybare the FSGM Sisters of Alton ILL!!!!!!!!!! How funny is that!!!!!!! i have known them my whole life and bamm, they shut the door in your face!!!!!!!!!! I ended up tlaking to one fo them on Saturday!!!!!!!!!! I started crying in feront of her!!!!!! She said that i need to let them go by stop talking to them and so forth and not enter the convent any time soon!!!!!!!!!! grr!!!!!!!!!!! but so sad!!!!!!!
Well, my mother again had an out-of-the-blue conversation about my possiable enterance date. She said she has always supported me, but if I do not go through all four years, she will no longer support me, financially or emotionally or any other way. Sad, but I must do what the Lord calls me to. I hope eventually that she will understand.
QUOTE(FutureNunJMJ @ Aug 25 2005, 09:01 AM)
Well, my mother again had an out-of-the-blue conversation about my possiable enterance date. She said she has always supported me, but if I do not go through all four years, she will no longer support me, financially or emotionally or any other way. Sad, but I must do what the Lord calls me to. I hope eventually that she will understand.
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You must do what the Lord is calling you to. I will be praying for you and your mother. Are you in college now? What yr.?
Ah man, I'm sorry to hear that FutureNun. Count on our prayers.
QUOTE(msahara @ Aug 25 2005, 07:59 AM)
You must do what the Lord is calling you to. I will be praying for you and your mother. Are you in college now? What yr.?
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I'm going to be a sophmore this year in college
It is tough having to live in the world. Here is some thinkings of a young lady still discerning where the Lord is calling her too. This came from her xanga.
QUOTE
Jesus I'm so unworthy of your love, but thank you for your love.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of your peace, but thank you for your peace.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of your loving arms, but thank you for your comfort.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of having my sister friends, but thank you for providing them.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of being here at college, but thank you for having me here.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of your praises, but thank you for your praise.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of your glory, but thank you for your glory.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of this calling, but thank you for choosing me.
Jesus I'm so unworthy to pray, but thank you for giving me prayer.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of my faith, but thank you for giving me faith.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of playing praises, but thank you for the gift of music.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of having a life here on earth, but thank you for making me in my mother's womb.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of having family, but thank you for everyone in my family.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of your mercy, but thank you for your mercy.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of going to mass, but thank you for the priests.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of Mary, Mother of God, but thank you for letting her come into my life.
As it is rough being here at college, and God has not yet called me to an order. I have no where to run and no where to hide, except in Jesus and Mary's loving arms.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of your peace, but thank you for your peace.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of your loving arms, but thank you for your comfort.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of having my sister friends, but thank you for providing them.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of being here at college, but thank you for having me here.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of your praises, but thank you for your praise.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of your glory, but thank you for your glory.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of this calling, but thank you for choosing me.
Jesus I'm so unworthy to pray, but thank you for giving me prayer.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of my faith, but thank you for giving me faith.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of playing praises, but thank you for the gift of music.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of having a life here on earth, but thank you for making me in my mother's womb.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of having family, but thank you for everyone in my family.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of your mercy, but thank you for your mercy.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of going to mass, but thank you for the priests.
Jesus I'm so unworthy of Mary, Mother of God, but thank you for letting her come into my life.
As it is rough being here at college, and God has not yet called me to an order. I have no where to run and no where to hide, except in Jesus and Mary's loving arms.
QUOTE(Sixtina87 @ Aug 18 2005, 01:54 PM)
Has anyone ever had a Sister so upset with them that the Sister didnt like you to discern the reigious life???? i had a teacher who is religious sister, yell at me one day because I was discerning a religious vocation!!!!
Has anyone ever been turned down by a Sister that you asked to help with your vocation that way you arent bugging the Sisters wo live farther away???
Those are just 2 questions I was wondering about!!!!!!!!!
God Bless!!!!!!
Sixtina
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Has anyone ever been turned down by a Sister that you asked to help with your vocation that way you arent bugging the Sisters wo live farther away???
Those are just 2 questions I was wondering about!!!!!!!!!
God Bless!!!!!!
Sixtina
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I really must laugh here. No, and no. LOL.
All the sisters I know and I know about 23, (I can name them all) are all very nice to me, extremely nice!!!! SOOOOO NICE and wonderful and pure hearted!!! Even the ones in my state!QUOTE(FutureNunJMJ @ Aug 25 2005, 08:01 AM)
Well, my mother again had an out-of-the-blue conversation about my possiable enterance date. She said she has always supported me, but if I do not go through all four years, she will no longer support me, financially or emotionally or any other way. Sad, but I must do what the Lord calls me to. I hope eventually that she will understand.
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There is a sister who I know and she only went up to her Sophomore year in college. SO HEY! Just get yourself there somehow and do the Fathers will.
I also have to say to FutureNunJMJ....
When I was in my first year of college, my parents were supportive of my discernment, but my mom told me basically that it should be on the back burner to my studies. And she thought I should graduate from college and THEN make a decision about possibly entering. Well, I would be a junior at college this year, and needless to say, I'm not going back. My mom surprised me BIG time when I "broke it to her" last October that I was thinking about not going back to Christendom. She still can have issues with it, but she has been so overwhelmingly supportive, and I think she's coming more and more to an understanding of the wise advice I received from a priest-friend... to do God's will, and do it with haste! It is all in His good time, but pray unceasingly for His grace to work in your mom's heart... and who knows... He works miracles ALL the time!! I'll be praying!!!!
When I was in my first year of college, my parents were supportive of my discernment, but my mom told me basically that it should be on the back burner to my studies. And she thought I should graduate from college and THEN make a decision about possibly entering. Well, I would be a junior at college this year, and needless to say, I'm not going back. My mom surprised me BIG time when I "broke it to her" last October that I was thinking about not going back to Christendom. She still can have issues with it, but she has been so overwhelmingly supportive, and I think she's coming more and more to an understanding of the wise advice I received from a priest-friend... to do God's will, and do it with haste! It is all in His good time, but pray unceasingly for His grace to work in your mom's heart... and who knows... He works miracles ALL the time!! I'll be praying!!!!
Sixtina,
What did the Sister say who yelled at you? I've never been yelled at. All the Sisters I have met have been incredibly supportive and encouraging.
What did the Sister say who yelled at you? I've never been yelled at. All the Sisters I have met have been incredibly supportive and encouraging.
Yeah, for me too. That's really strange. I think she just had an abnormal experience or something :-p
QUOTE(jgirl @ Aug 25 2005, 03:49 PM)
Sixtina,
What did the Sister say who yelled at you? I've never been yelled at. All the Sisters I have met have been incredibly supportive and encouraging.
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What did the Sister say who yelled at you? I've never been yelled at. All the Sisters I have met have been incredibly supportive and encouraging.
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I was crying that day but thiswas back in my JR yr of HS and I havent forgive that Sister either!!!!!!!!! the Sister is too old she needs to go into retirement or something!!!!!!!!! But yeah she yelled at me because of the fact that too many epople were asking me questions about religious life isntead of going to her, she got pist ebcause i memorized the motehrhouse phone number, big deal!!!!!!!! She says I publize my discernment to everyone!!!!! I think she was PMSing!!!!! But she is a FSGM Sister!!!!!!!!!!! I dont remember too much of axactly what she said but i know it delt with the convent phone numbers which there is about 5 of them, my discernment and people asking me questions aboutit!!!!
If anyone in my class asked me a question in front of her about the religious life or anything pertaining to that, she would give me this evil look!!!!!!!!!!!! tlakin about grr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
QUOTE(crusader03 @ Aug 25 2005, 10:56 AM)
I also have to say to FutureNunJMJ....
When I was in my first year of college, my parents were supportive of my discernment, but my mom told me basically that it should be on the back burner to my studies. And she thought I should graduate from college and THEN make a decision about possibly entering. Well, I would be a junior at college this year, and needless to say, I'm not going back. My mom surprised me BIG time when I "broke it to her" last October that I was thinking about not going back to Christendom. She still can have issues with it, but she has been so overwhelmingly supportive, and I think she's coming more and more to an understanding of the wise advice I received from a priest-friend... to do God's will, and do it with haste! It is all in His good time, but pray unceasingly for His grace to work in your mom's heart... and who knows... He works miracles ALL the time!! I'll be praying!!!!
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When I was in my first year of college, my parents were supportive of my discernment, but my mom told me basically that it should be on the back burner to my studies. And she thought I should graduate from college and THEN make a decision about possibly entering. Well, I would be a junior at college this year, and needless to say, I'm not going back. My mom surprised me BIG time when I "broke it to her" last October that I was thinking about not going back to Christendom. She still can have issues with it, but she has been so overwhelmingly supportive, and I think she's coming more and more to an understanding of the wise advice I received from a priest-friend... to do God's will, and do it with haste! It is all in His good time, but pray unceasingly for His grace to work in your mom's heart... and who knows... He works miracles ALL the time!! I'll be praying!!!!
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Well, my mother hasn't always been suportive of my discernment or calling in general. I know this will be one of the hardest things, but it will have to be done, and I am certainly praying for a small miracle.
I just wrote Mother Mary Regina a 6 page long letter, most of it about my pilgrimage to WYD. I sent pictures too! I really want to be there though... it has been a long time since I have visited and gas prices will not make it any easier...
Well girls!!! Hows everyones discerning coming along? I figured we could catch up with all these exciting comings and goings!!!!!
I'll start, hehe.
Well, I still haven't told my parents, dont know why. However, its is becoming increasingly obvious to me that I need to them, as I feel more and more called each day. So! I'd love some prayers for Sunday night....when I'll try to explain it all to them! Mainly, as I'd love to go to the Oct SMME retreat.....Also, I am half accepted to do a student exchange to either Switzerland or Bolivia or the USA for next year (Jan 2006-Jan 2007) However, I am considering throwing away this opportunity as all I want to do is be with Him!!! I can easily say now, with St Therese how I so love Him...!!!! Prayers would be much appreciated!!!!!
I am uncertain to exactly WHERE I am called, however! I am looking seriously at Poor Clares, Dominican nuns, and Dominican sisters. I know feel that I should VISIT, as I can't really tell from such a distance as NZ!!!!!!! I am even thinking of making an aspirancy....I'm hoping and praying that I'll be able to make a trip earlyish next year to visit most if not all of these places....even just to put my heart at rest!
Also! I CANNOT wait to venerate St Thereses relics this coming Monday night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will also have the opportunity of seeing the Carmelite monastery, which should be interesting! I really don't feel called to Carmel...but you never know!!!! hehehehehhe
Love and prayers in Jesus and Mary!!!!
I'll start, hehe.
Well, I still haven't told my parents, dont know why. However, its is becoming increasingly obvious to me that I need to them, as I feel more and more called each day. So! I'd love some prayers for Sunday night....when I'll try to explain it all to them! Mainly, as I'd love to go to the Oct SMME retreat.....Also, I am half accepted to do a student exchange to either Switzerland or Bolivia or the USA for next year (Jan 2006-Jan 2007) However, I am considering throwing away this opportunity as all I want to do is be with Him!!! I can easily say now, with St Therese how I so love Him...!!!! Prayers would be much appreciated!!!!!
I am uncertain to exactly WHERE I am called, however! I am looking seriously at Poor Clares, Dominican nuns, and Dominican sisters. I know feel that I should VISIT, as I can't really tell from such a distance as NZ!!!!!!! I am even thinking of making an aspirancy....I'm hoping and praying that I'll be able to make a trip earlyish next year to visit most if not all of these places....even just to put my heart at rest!
Also! I CANNOT wait to venerate St Thereses relics this coming Monday night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will also have the opportunity of seeing the Carmelite monastery, which should be interesting! I really don't feel called to Carmel...but you never know!!!! hehehehehhe
Love and prayers in Jesus and Mary!!!!
QUOTE(memtherose @ Sep 17 2005, 03:27 AM)
Well girls!!! Hows everyones discerning coming along? I figured we could catch up with all these exciting comings and goings!!!!!
I'll start, hehe.
Well, I still haven't told my parents, dont know why. However, its is becoming increasingly obvious to me that I need to them, as I feel more and more called each day. So! I'd love some prayers for Sunday night....when I'll try to explain it all to them! Mainly, as I'd love to go to the Oct SMME retreat.....Also, I am half accepted to do a student exchange to either Switzerland or Bolivia or the USA for next year (Jan 2006-Jan 2007) However, I am considering throwing away this opportunity as all I want to do is be with Him!!! I can easily say now, with St Therese how I so love Him...!!!! Prayers would be much appreciated!!!!!
I am uncertain to exactly WHERE I am called, however! I am looking seriously at Poor Clares, Dominican nuns, and Dominican sisters. I know feel that I should VISIT, as I can't really tell from such a distance as NZ!!!!!!! I am even thinking of making an aspirancy....I'm hoping and praying that I'll be able to make a trip earlyish next year to visit most if not all of these places....even just to put my heart at rest!
Also! I CANNOT wait to venerate St Thereses relics this coming Monday night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will also have the opportunity of seeing the Carmelite monastery, which should be interesting! I really don't feel called to Carmel...but you never know!!!! hehehehehhe
Love and prayers in Jesus and Mary!!!!
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I'll start, hehe.
Well, I still haven't told my parents, dont know why. However, its is becoming increasingly obvious to me that I need to them, as I feel more and more called each day. So! I'd love some prayers for Sunday night....when I'll try to explain it all to them! Mainly, as I'd love to go to the Oct SMME retreat.....Also, I am half accepted to do a student exchange to either Switzerland or Bolivia or the USA for next year (Jan 2006-Jan 2007) However, I am considering throwing away this opportunity as all I want to do is be with Him!!! I can easily say now, with St Therese how I so love Him...!!!! Prayers would be much appreciated!!!!!
I am uncertain to exactly WHERE I am called, however! I am looking seriously at Poor Clares, Dominican nuns, and Dominican sisters. I know feel that I should VISIT, as I can't really tell from such a distance as NZ!!!!!!! I am even thinking of making an aspirancy....I'm hoping and praying that I'll be able to make a trip earlyish next year to visit most if not all of these places....even just to put my heart at rest!
Also! I CANNOT wait to venerate St Thereses relics this coming Monday night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will also have the opportunity of seeing the Carmelite monastery, which should be interesting! I really don't feel called to Carmel...but you never know!!!! hehehehehhe
Love and prayers in Jesus and Mary!!!!
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Oh how awesome! Prayers for you and your discenrment the He will lead you to where you are meant to be!
And the whole St. Therese thing,
LUCKY! I am sure that it will be quite an experience!
I am so confused. A lot of different orders are saying I haven't been Catholic long enough. How long enough is 'good' enough?
Also, my dad wants me to graduate college before I decide anything.
Ugh.
There's more complications, but I am too full right now to think of any more.
Also, my dad wants me to graduate college before I decide anything.
Ugh.
There's more complications, but I am too full right now to think of any more.
QUOTE
I am so confused. A lot of different orders are saying I haven't been Catholic long enough. How long enough is 'good' enough?
Most orders that I know have a requirement of 2 years after becoming Catholic. I think it's to grow in the Faith and make sure one really does have a vocation.
QUOTE(memtherose @ Sep 17 2005, 05:27 AM)
Well girls!!! Hows everyones discerning coming along? I figured we could catch up with all these exciting comings and goings!!!!!
I'll start, hehe.
Well, I still haven't told my parents, dont know why. However, its is becoming increasingly obvious to me that I need to them, as I feel more and more called each day. So! I'd love some prayers for Sunday night....when I'll try to explain it all to them! Mainly, as I'd love to go to the Oct SMME retreat.....Also, I am half accepted to do a student exchange to either Switzerland or Bolivia or the USA for next year (Jan 2006-Jan 2007) However, I am considering throwing away this opportunity as all I want to do is be with Him!!! I can easily say now, with St Therese how I so love Him...!!!! Prayers would be much appreciated!!!!!
I am uncertain to exactly WHERE I am called, however! I am looking seriously at Poor Clares, Dominican nuns, and Dominican sisters. I know feel that I should VISIT, as I can't really tell from such a distance as NZ!!!!!!! I am even thinking of making an aspirancy....I'm hoping and praying that I'll be able to make a trip earlyish next year to visit most if not all of these places....even just to put my heart at rest!
Also! I CANNOT wait to venerate St Thereses relics this coming Monday night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will also have the opportunity of seeing the Carmelite monastery, which should be interesting! I really don't feel called to Carmel...but you never know!!!! hehehehehhe
Love and prayers in Jesus and Mary!!!!
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I'll start, hehe.
Well, I still haven't told my parents, dont know why. However, its is becoming increasingly obvious to me that I need to them, as I feel more and more called each day. So! I'd love some prayers for Sunday night....when I'll try to explain it all to them! Mainly, as I'd love to go to the Oct SMME retreat.....Also, I am half accepted to do a student exchange to either Switzerland or Bolivia or the USA for next year (Jan 2006-Jan 2007) However, I am considering throwing away this opportunity as all I want to do is be with Him!!! I can easily say now, with St Therese how I so love Him...!!!! Prayers would be much appreciated!!!!!
I am uncertain to exactly WHERE I am called, however! I am looking seriously at Poor Clares, Dominican nuns, and Dominican sisters. I know feel that I should VISIT, as I can't really tell from such a distance as NZ!!!!!!! I am even thinking of making an aspirancy....I'm hoping and praying that I'll be able to make a trip earlyish next year to visit most if not all of these places....even just to put my heart at rest!
Also! I CANNOT wait to venerate St Thereses relics this coming Monday night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will also have the opportunity of seeing the Carmelite monastery, which should be interesting! I really don't feel called to Carmel...but you never know!!!! hehehehehhe
Love and prayers in Jesus and Mary!!!!
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Wow, thanks for the update. Dont throw away your op. to go else where as an exchange stuednt, if you come to the US, I'll take you in!!!!!!! I'm sure your parents will be delighted about your possible vocationas much as my fmaily loves it!!!! But you will have to email ema let me know it goes!!!
sixtina
Hey memtherose!
If you were accepted as a foreign exchange student here, you could possibly use that opportunity to travel to different places on weekends and visit some convents!
If you were accepted as a foreign exchange student here, you could possibly use that opportunity to travel to different places on weekends and visit some convents!
Yeah, you could visit a whole lot of different convents if you came to live here for a while!
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