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Some postulant outfits are notoriously unattractive (e.g. http://www.sistersofmary.org/sitefs.shtml ). Generally speaking, the vest or jumper and shin-length skirt isn't very pleasing to the eye. While the goal of a religious isn't to be attractive, do we have a duty to attire ourselves in a more classically beautiful way? For example, contrast the postulant outfits with the professed sisters -the Dominican habit, which is BEAUTIFUL-- at the SMME link. As far as I know, the postulant outfits generally don't have spiritual significance as e.g. the veil and scapular do. With that in mind, as a theoretical question, would it be beneficial for communities to change postulant outfits? If so, how?

Do you think it would be beneficial for vocations/postulants/the Church to see more postulants alternately attired (I think of how cool cassocks are, e.g.)?

**Oh, and what community has your favorite POSTULANT'S outfit (just for fun)?

It's my personal opinion that seminarians and priests should be required to wear a tonsure and corporally mortify themselves all the time. I don't have an issue with postulants outfits.

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En Guard (never took French) --



(oh, and what's a "tonsure"? --that's the thing about being Catholic, there's always something to learn! )

I honestly say no, all I care is they WEAR something.

I just looked at the link you provided. They seem to make the women look even younger than they are...although, they probably are very good for all different body styles. That being said, I can't help but think that women who enter a community that wears a full length habit should be given something "more" upon entrance as a postulant.

In response to your "just for fun question"....I happen to think the most beautiful postulant's garment I have (*ever*) seen (and that means "so far!") is the one that the Lockport Dominicans use. For those interested in habits, there is a very good yahoo group designed just for these types of discussions!

I don't think it really matters, as long as it has a marked modesty (I think some kind of veil is really cool for postulants)... there's a certain humility and smallness in the simplicity of the postulant outfit. Their youngish and maybe less than noteworthiness is a sign that it is a beginning... I don't think the postulant outfit will really affect what people think of vocations or anything, but rather once you have that attraction already, it becomes a sign of what you're hoping for. Plus, practically speaking, because the postulant outfit is only worn for about a year, I think it's good for them to be pretty basic.

That said, my favorite postulant outfit is this one:

Sr. Lauren's first jumper was too form fitting so mother gave her another. I suppose, especially for the extern/active sisters, there is definitely such a thing as too aesthetically pleasing.

Something simple but not hideous ugly works the best. You need to be able to work and pray in whatever you're given, that's for sure.

My favorite is this one (no surprise)

Tonsure is the symbol of the crown of thorns - the head is shaved apart from a ring of hair around the head. The precise form varies: the old Celtic monastics' tonsure only went around the back of the head.

I don't think it's done much anymore, either amongst the secular clergy or religious (whether ordained or not). The few seculars I know only have a small shaved patch at the crown of the head, and they're now all of an age where...hm...let's say perhaps they don't need to maintain it.

Hope this helps a little.

Love and prayers,

PP

One of our former gentleman aspirants is now with the FSSP, and he receives the tonsure this year. It's his second year of seminary.

Blessings,
Gemma



Thanks for mentioning our yahoo group The Religious Habit.

The reason why the teaching Dominicans went to the vest style of postulant garb is because it looked more professional in the classroom.

Our SOLC Foundations will be using the "old fashioned" postulant garb which includes a capelet and veil. The capelet helps them to get used to having something to keep their hands under--preparation for the scapular.

Blessings,
Gemma

I don't think they need to be necessarily more aesthetically pleasing, but I think wearing a veil, even a shorter one, such as the one that many of the cloistered orders wear, helps the postulant to feel more that she's a community member, even though she isn't 'officially' a member of the community until she's a novice. (see the PCPA websites for postulant pics, such as www.desertnuns.com or www.stjosephmonastery.com or the PCPA postulant pics above) The old DCJ outfits were awesome (I saw them in old photos.) They had a caplet and veil. And the cape was long enough to be able to tuck your hands under as you walked.

It's also such a penance to have to 'do' your hair every morning if you don't have something to tuck it under. It was difficult, at least for me, with curly hair, to try to make it look non-frizzy and neat (as in, not sloppy). I felt so fortunate, when I was able to wear a veil, because I could just hide my hair!

I personally like the jumper style better then the vest and skirt, of course it wouldn't stop me from entering an order, but still. I also think that a small veil is a good idea, as it would get you used to wearing one.

Hence why I usually stuff my (frizzy) hair into a bun and tie a great big handkerchief over my head most days

Love and prayers,

PP

Postulants don't even need to wear any sort of outfit or uniform and it was common that postulants even wore their own clothes as postulants. Wearing uniform clothing is more a"modern" practice.
Postulant clothing is meant to be simple, modest, and functional. It's not meant to be a sort of "mini habit" until one gets the habit so I wouldn't compare postulant clothing to the habit in terms of looks.
I prefer jumpers to skirts and blouses but we have done both. We stopped having a veil for postulants but hair got to be a problem so now we have a short white veil.
When I was a postulant I wore the same jumper that the OLAM postulants used to wear and it seems we BOTH changed the style at the same time! I also wore a very uncomfortable blue veil and the shade of navy blue was different from my jumper! Ugh!

The dress-cape style is cute but rather old fashioned looking especially for active sisters who are "out there". NAshville wore that until 1990.

We've always joked that postulant clothing is SUPPOSED to be ugly to make you yearn even more for the habit!

Here is what our postulants look like. I like this jumper style very much.
postulants

(I hope this link works this time!)

Thanks Sr. Catherine
I would very much like to see... but it doesn't seem to be working.

Also, does anyone have pictures of Nashville (or another community) in the "dress-cape style"? I would like to see what those look like --I don't think I've ever seen them before.

Go to our "Aspirant Update" page on our website (under "SOLC Foundations"). We have a large (sorry!) pic of OP sisters with dress-cape postulant.

Since we're going to be Traddie, the "old fashioned" look is for us!!!

http://cloisters.tripod.com/

Blessings,
Gemma

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Cool. Thanks Gemma. She even has a rosary on her belt (I presume).

I have doubts (although who am I to even have opinions on clothes I don't wear?) about whether a postulant outfit should look "like a habit". They're not yet invested, after all, and so it wouldn't be appropriate for their clothes to look like a habit.

On the other hand, I do think it's a good thing for them to have some sort of "uniform". In a Western culture which is pretty hard to shake off in order to live a Christian life, let alone one that is deepened to such an extent that someone plucks up the courage to enter, some sort of recognition in the form of a way of dress can be a great support.

I think that out of the postulant uniforms I've seen, I'd "prefer" that of the Dominicans in Lockport. I'd like OLAM's dresses more if they were longer - but I am a person who thinks anything shorter than ankle length (yes, even for people as tall as VA) is bordering on scandalous (if it weren't for some religious- and corset-related issues, I do believe I'd fit in rather well into Victorian society).

Love and prayers,

PP

You know, actually just to dodge to the actual habit, I couldnt help but laugh. The FSGM's habit is seven pockets...can you imagnine having seven pockets, I mean pants usually have 4! But seven, that includes the sleeves...its funny.

OK. I guess I can't get around using photobucket!
Here is the photo of our postulants.


I looked at Lockport's postulant jumper and I dont' quite see what is all that different except I think they have a belt and it is a little bit longer than ours.

We changed to blue from black in honor of our Lady.

In the old days the postulants wore a frilly bonnet! Now, if people really wanted to be traddie they should wear that!
If you've seen pictures of Bl. Elizabeth of the Trinity as a postulant than you know what I mean!

I actually have a jumper[US-term]-related question that is thus slightly off topic, but it's been burning away in my head for a while. The thing is that I feel it's slightly ridiculous and probably not for the eyes of gentlemen to read. So, um, what do I do? Should I PM Sr. Mary Catherine and ask her? (Sr., please forgive me talking about you in the third person...)



Love and prayers,

PP

Sure, why not?!

Thank you! There's a PM in your inbox even as I type

Love and prayers,

PP

Frilly bonnet? I've never seen that! I've seen lots of other "veils" on postulants, though.

Blessings,
Gemma

When I was looking to enter religious life, I like the idea of a small veil for a postulant because I too have unruly hair that would be so much easier to just hide under a veil. That way I would have to fight with it all day to keep it down.

Julie, a tonsure is the bald spot with the ring of hair that some monastic communities still do, like the Benedictines. That's what a zucchetto is for, to keep that bald spot warm.

I don't think it really matters.... after all, you are only going to be wearing it for up to one year! I do think that uniformity is important though, I think that it probably enhances a sense of belonging, helps develop one's community spirit?

I don't have a favourite postulant outfit, hehe! I like the thought of wearing a short veil, but my hair is long and slightly wavy so it's pretty easy to keep under control!

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Thanks!

Can you imagine! our postulants wore it til about the late 40's. From pictures I've seen from other monasteries this seems to have been the norm. Bl. Elizabeth of the Trinity wore one with a veil. It looked like some sort of widow's weed type thing! Ours didn't have a veil, it was just a frilly bonnet. I wish I could find a picture.

I don't know where people got the idea that the postulant cape was a "practice garb" for the habit because I've yet to see a novice who didn't practically have her hands glued under her scapular from the 1st minute. In fact, you can always tell new novices because they are so good at it!

I know several traditional communites and none wear a cape; most wear a jumper...oops. SLEEVELESS DRESS for our friendly Brits....the only group I know of is the CMRI's and they aren't in the Church.

I like the cape myself but as I look back on all the stuff I did as a postulant I think it would have been in the way most of the time. I probably would've gotten it stuck in the offset press!

God bless you!
SMC

A slightly off topic question for Sister.... is it just "sisterly culture" (ie the norm) for hands to be kept under the scapular? Or, is there some deep theological reasoning? I've often wondered why sisters' hands are always under their scapulars, and now I can finally ask why!

Thanks for humoring me!

Just make sure that I have a head covering of some sort! Gosh, I love bandanas!

Keeping hands under the scapular fosters a recollected way of being and acting especially during community exercises. It's also great to know what to do with your hands! On a practical note, keeping your hands under the scapular keeps the scapular from getting wrinkled. You can also fiddle your thumbs when you find a lecture or homily boring....and no one knows!

What is the matter with you?, My litte sister.

To me it doesn't really matter. As long as it can be worked and prayed in and is appropriate, what difference does it make if it looks really pretty. If I ever become a postulant, I pray that I spend more time worrying about making my soul beautiful than my outfit
On a side note, I agree that a veil would be nice, just because then you don't have to fix your hair in the morning (and goodness knows, I can use any time I get in the morning... I'm not exactly what you'd call a morning person

And the mother superior in "Agnes of God" told the investigator "You could hide a machine gun under here!"

Blessings,
Gemma

at least most postulant outfits aren't as bad as the uniforms in star trek TOS.

oh, that reminds me of the star trek trivia game: http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...c=57612&hl=

Even if the postulents don't wear a veil, do they still wear wear one in the chapel? ( I just watched the Nashville Dominicans movie and they did, I was wondering if that was the norm) Also, if you are visiting an Order, should you wear one? ( I have one, so I was wondering if it was appropriate)Pax,
Lily

The Carmelite postulants in Valparaiso do.

[mod]Please do not link to apparition sites that are specifically condemned by the Church[/mod]

Scroll down. You'll see Sister Therese of Merciful Love, OCD as a postulant for her entrance picture.

I'd say if you normally wear a veil, than wear it, other wise, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I was a little worried that I would stick out like a sore thumb not wearing a veil at OLAM, and I almost bought one before I went just because of that, but then our local Catholic store didn't have any, and I decided against it. I decided I should just be myself. (I opted against wearing a chapel veil awhile ago because I didn't want to be attracting more attention to myself than I knew I already did. Although, I must say, I really love seeing women wear chapel veils, its such a beautiful sign.)

Of course, some places, especially that have the Tridentine Mass, may require a chapel veil... but I'm sure they'd let you know about that. And I know Lockport has a special veil for aspirants, and in cases like that, obviously it'd be taken care of!

As for orders that don't have a veil for postulants, I don't know what the norm for them in church is...

The Nashville Dominican postulants wear a chapel veil, but those with SSME don't.

As long as we're talking about postulant outfits I'll point out TheresaMF (Ida)'s post about her postulant dress. From that post it seems like she'll be wearing the old school postulant clothes, complete with cape and swinging rosary!

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Some SMME postulants DO wear the chapel veil While all Nashville postulants wear the veil. I'm guessing it's optional with SMME, but required with Nashville? I never talked with S. Joseph Andrew or S. Mary Emily about it myself...

My favorite postulant outfit is the one worn by the Discalced Carmelites in Buffalo, NY.

They have a brown dress with a cape top and a black leather belt (but not with a Rosary yet). The dress is not as long as a habit but still long. I think it's good for postulants to have a cape top to get used to putting their hands under their habits. Also for the refectory and for work, with the kind of dress they have, they get used to folding up their sleeves and pining them as the others sisters with habits must.

They have a long simple white veil that covers all the hair. I like the idea of having postulants wear a veil. They can immediately have the freedom of not having to do their hair in the morning to focus on the spiritual, and it looks a lot nicer. I also like how it is long, as it looks more elegant. And it thinks it's nice that their veils are white.

Then they wear long black socks and simple tie up black shoes.

I agree that there's merit in having an ugly postulant dress, so the day of entrance into the novitiate is more eagerly awaited. But still, the full Carmelite habit with the scapular is much greater than this dress.

I thinks it's definitely good for the postulants to have some kind of uniform, that's not too ugly, and with a simple veil.

My favorite postulant outfit is the one worn by the Discalced Carmelites in Buffalo, NY.

They have a brown dress with a cape top and a black leather belt (but not with a Rosary). The dress is not as long as a habit but still pretty long. I think it's good for postulants to have a cape top to get used to putting their hands under their habits. Also for the refectory and for work, with the kind of dress they have, they get used to folding up their sleeves and pining them as the others sisters with habits must.

They have a long simple white veil that covers all the hair. I like the idea of having postulants wear a veil. They can immediately have the freedom of not having to do their hair in the morning to focus on the spiritual, and it looks a lot nicer. I also like how it is long, as it looks more elegant. And it thinks it's nice that their veils are white.

Then they wear long black socks and simple tie up black shoes.

I agree that there's merit in having an ugly postulant dress, so the day of entrance into the novitiate is more eagerly awaited. But still, the full Carmelite habit with the scapular is much greater than this dress.

I thinks it's definitely good for the postulants to have some kind of uniform, that's not too ugly and with a simple veil.

i really don't think it's a huge deal as long as they are able to be worked in. religious do not enter communities hoping for something aesthetically pleasing... or at least i would hope not.

the postulant pictured here is a great example of something workable but not necessarily pleasing to the eye. (it is very pleasing to me but that is because i hope to someday wear it.. God's will be done.)

i like that this postulant does not wear the veil for the reason mentioned (somewhere) above. i like that the women are veiled when they become novices. it's another outward sign of an inner growth.

Actually, you're right - it's really not a big deal at all. And definitely you don't enter a community looking for something aesthetically pleasing as you said - but the opposite actually- something poor and lowly.

This reminds me of a line I read on the site made about the Sisters of Bethlehem in Livingston Manor, that recently went down (praiseofglory.com). Someone made the site who visited them. It read "I did not see any preoccupation with the habit. (men may not understand this, but women can get vain over sackcloth.) "

The Carmelite Monks at Carmel of the Immaculate Heart of Mary (Diocese of Cheyenne, WY) wear the tonsure. They also us the Tridentine Rite and follow the reform of Sts. Theresa of Avila and John of the Cross. They give a wonderful explanation for the symbolism of the tonsure on their page dealing with the Holy Habit. <http://www.carmelitemonks.org/index.html>

I'm not really sure how one responds to the above. I guess it will do to say I like this post.

"women can get vain over sackcloth"....oh my goodness, !

Oh, hello. I think some of you guys got a kick out of the little quote I posted. It is pretty funny and has a lot of truth to it.

But I wanted to apologize to any of you guys that had good things to say about making the habit prettier or just in general about the habit, like the yahoo forum on the religious habit. Because at the same time, it is good for Brides of Christ, especially ministering to the people, to reflect the dignity of their calling and give witness to the beauty and order of God. "Whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God." 1 Corinthians 10:31

But I thought the quote was good nevertheless, because it can be sooo true.

Peace to all!


Margaret :j