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HisChild
QUOTE(HeavenlyCalling @ Jan 6 2007, 08:51 AM) [snapback]1157407[/snapback]

Which Carmelites are these? Where from, I love the postulents outfits ( not that they really matter much, it's getting vain over sack cloth, I guess P.gif ) and that cross is ginormous!



HI. I just wanted to also mention, since you liked the postulant's outfits. . .that the Carmel in Carmel, Ca also have very similar postulant's habits, only with a white veil. smile.gif
Divine_Mercy504
Hi! I know of a Carmel in Philadelphia that I don't think has been mentioned yet. Their website is: Carmelites of Philadelphia There are no pics of them on their website, but I have been there before and they are very traditional! Also, you can ask them to send you their book (I belevie it is called Carmel of Philadelphia but I'm not sure). That book has a lot of pictures of them! They are really nice. Mother Barbara and the Novice Mistress, Mother Pio, are great!

God Bless,
Rachel
Margaret Clare
QUOTE(HisChild @ Jan 7 2007, 01:27 AM) [snapback]1157950[/snapback]

HI. I just wanted to also mention, since you liked the postulant's outfits. . .that the Carmel in Carmel, Ca also have very similar postulant's habits, only with a white veil. smile.gif
same as Buffalo, too, with a white veil :j

and also Alexandria, SD & Brooklyn, NY
phatdaddy
I hope I am not hijack.gif this thread..... I feel awkward asking this for obvious reasons, but you guys are so good and forgiving. blush.gif Anyway....my question... Concerning third orders (lay), does membership or association need to be physical that is, in your area so that you can attend gatherings, experience fellowship and learn and live the Rule, or can the association be remote and more solitary? Does it have to be specific to a parish where the 3rd order is based?

I'm in the Houston area. Any OCD lay groups around?
Mr. Ray
HisChild
When I was a travel nurse, I was unable to be affiliated with any particular parish. So, I was doing my formation with one particular person, as an isolate. I heard that they are going away from that, now, but, if you'd like, if there are no OCDS parishes near you, I could find out, for you, the contact info for whoever you need to speak with regarding isolate formation, and of course, if it's still available.

God bless you.
phatdaddy
QUOTE(HisChild @ Jan 7 2007, 08:50 PM) [snapback]1158288[/snapback]

When I was a travel nurse, I was unable to be affiliated with any particular parish. So, I was doing my formation with one particular person, as an isolate. I heard that they are going away from that, now, but, if you'd like, if there are no OCDS parishes near you, I could find out, for you, the contact info for whoever you need to speak with regarding isolate formation, and of course, if it's still available.

God bless you.


Thanks Denise. That would be great if you could get a contact. I know of no OCD's near enough to be practical.
Mr. Ray
Emile James
QUOTE(brendan1104 @ Jan 6 2007, 06:39 PM) [snapback]1157758[/snapback]

You know, Emile, I would really like to know where you got your information about the Carmel in Colorado Springs. I was a seminarian with their chaplains' community. I am VERY familiar with the history of their foundation, and current status.

They hold the same theological position as their directors. Sadly theirs is not a totally regular position. But they are definitely true Discalced Carmelite Nuns.

Grace and to you, Peace,
Great thanks for the info,i always was sure they were true to the faith and carmel, and in the patience of waiting for Rome its regular to be..irregular!:)
i just love the photos of their carmel and the fact they assist at Traditional Liturgy..just things seem unclear of where they are at under the Bishop.
i was hoping someone with experience would say something , i received my information from a RadTrad Blog guy, who had visited around therein 2005 fall..if i find again his blog ..ill put it up.. and regarding the Servants of the Holy Family, i read below, among many other similar things..
From the Colorado Springs Gazzete
"The Roman Catholic Diocese of Colorado Springs is taking aim at what it calls a renegade church in Black Forest and asking its members to return to the fold.

In a letter to about 60 households, Bishop Michael Sheridan said Servants of the Holy Family is not part of the Roman Catholic Church, despite what church priests tell them.

"I entreat you to separate yourself from the Servants of the Holy Family and return to full communion with the Roman Catholic Church," Sheridan wrote in his letter. "No one can claim to be authentically Catholic if he or she is not in communion with the diocesan bishop and the Pope."

Sheridan said the separation nullifies some Catholic sacraments such as marriage and reconciliation, also called confession or penance.

Former members claim that Servants of the Holy Family is out of sync with the Catholic Church in other ways, too, saying the church is as much a personality cult as a place of worship.
...
Servants of the Holy Family is a church and seminary of 100-150 congregants at 8025 Maverick Road.

Father Allan Kucera, one of five priests at the church, said by e- mail that the church will not answer questions about the church or Sheridan's letter.

"Servants of the Holy Family will neither participate in a public debate or controversy, nor will it in any way contribute to the strife and division already present today in the Catholic Church," Kucera said in his e-mail.

"If anyone is interested, he or she may come and see for themselves what we are about."
--------------------------

i am wondering if the Servants are closely tied and still Chaplains for that Carmel though?or the FSSP
-E-J
Emile James
QUOTE(The Little Way @ Jan 6 2007, 11:08 PM) [snapback]1157929[/snapback]

Not the Community of St. John?

oohhh..well i hung out here alot!
IPB Image
smile.gif
that would be a yes..
HisChild
QUOTE(phatdaddy @ Jan 7 2007, 04:00 PM) [snapback]1158297[/snapback]

Thanks Denise. That would be great if you could get a contact. I know of no OCD's near enough to be practical.
Mr. Ray



I will call my own formation person this week. . .PM and remind me if I haven't contacted you within a couple of days!

God bless you!
Margaret Clare
Do you guys know about the little notebooks the Carmelites at Terre Haute have made? They're very nice, they have 4 of them of OCD saints ... Here's their site: http://www.heartsawake.org/ Go under Art Shop, Calligraphy Notebooks
Emile James
3 minute Video of the Carmelite Laura of hermits, in Texas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anOJ0Mb5SWM

Peace...
Margaret Clare
just putting a link in this thread to the Britain's Youngest Fully Professed Carmelite Nun thread, for future reference. happy.gif
Margaret Clare
In the visiting cloisters thread, I said:

QUOTE(Margaret Clare @ Jan 13 2007, 06:52 PM) [snapback]1163847[/snapback]


Most of the cloisters I've visited don't allow you to enter the cloister until you're actually entering as a postulant. I really rather think this is a good idea. Otherwise, it could become a disturbance for the community. I've always stayed in a room either in the guest area within the monastery building, or in a guest house.

I guess it can be a good thing to allow very serious discerners into the cloister though. I didn't have much of an idea of how the life is lived at Buffalo until I actually entered there. I knew the horarium, but it's nothing in comparison to living it. I felt very much after a short time as a postulant there, that I was called to more solitude, and to an order with more Eucharistic adoration ...


But I just wanted to say again, the Buffalo community is great! They live the Carmelite way of life with great fervor and faithfullness to the charism. For me though, I just realized I believe my vocation is to another order. But nothing at all against this community. They are such a great Carmel!! And their Gregorian chant is out of this world, as mention previously. saint.gif
stlmom
The current newsletter of the Carmelite Sisters DCJ is online now, if any one is interested.
HeavenlyCalling
Coolio!
Margaret Clare
I'm not sure if these were mentioned before here, but also in the Carmelite Order are:
The Hermits of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, in the O Carm Order
&
The Carmelite Hermits of the Trinity, affiliated with the OCDs.
HeavenlyCalling
I thought I would post this really cool picture I found ( although I dont for the life of me remember where )
IPB Image

It is St. Therese, her three Carmelite sisters and her cousin. That's a lot of family in one convent!!
Margaret Clare
Whoa, I've never seen that picture before! Thanks, Lily! Yeah, that sure is a lot of family in one Carmel. I would find that very hard actually. But wow, what an awesome picture.
HeavenlyCalling
QUOTE(Margaret Clare @ Feb 14 2007, 10:24 PM) [snapback]1195503[/snapback]

Whoa, I've never seen that picture before! Thanks, Lily! Yeah, that sure is a lot of family in one Carmel. I would find that very hard actually. But wow, what an awesome picture.

Yeah, I thought it was pretty neat too, that could never happen in my family!!! They were very zealous, and thier parents were very generous!! Imagine giving all their daughters to God, and 4 of them to the same monestary
Margaret Clare
QUOTE(Mary-Kathryn @ Jan 5 2007, 08:26 PM) [snapback]1157116[/snapback]
I personally prefer Father Kavanaugh's books because I've been told that his translations are very faithful. I have the collected works of Teresa of Avila volumes one and two that he did with Father Otilio Rodriguez. It kind of makes it easier for me to have all of her writings in a couple of books. If you ever get the chance watch the movie about her life that comes out on EWTN around Oct 15th of every year. It's absolutely beautiful.

Let me know about the Allison Peers biography. I'd like to hear what you think of her translation and if the read itself came easier to you. Goodness knows, I'm slow enough as it is!


Hey Mary Kathryn, I haven't forgotten your request to let you know about the Peers translation! :j I just posted about it in another thread, but am going to paste it here too for future reference.

QUOTE(Margaret Clare @ Apr 11 2007, 03:35 PM) [snapback]1239011[/snapback]
Hey guys, first, I've been reading St. Teresa translated by Allison Peers, and actually I may like the Kavanaugh one better, as the Peers one has all the Thees and Thous. For me, the Kavanaugh translation flows better. But I've only read a little, so I'm not sure.

Also, I wanted to add here a book I stumbled upon, Book for the Hour of Recreation, by Sr. Marie de San Jose, one of the first OCD nuns with St. Teresa.


I got it in the mail the other day, but haven't read it yet. I looks really interesting, especially as it gives first hand accounts of St. Teresa. Unfortunatly, the introduction is by this feminist writer. But I'm just skipping over that, which is a big chunk of pages, and going right to the writings of Sr. Maria. I haven't been able to find a better edition of this, without this introduction. I have never heard of it before, or seen it in Carmelite book shops. I just happen to find it while searching online.

Margaret Clare
I found this website for the St. Joseph Association of US Carmels - http://www.carmelitenunsstjoseph.org

It has a pdf file with profiles of a few of the Carmels. It says to check back, as it's being updated. It hasn't been updated in a while, but it's still pretty neat!

Here's the other page for St. Joseph's on the Flemington Carmel's site - http://www.flemingtoncarmel.org/StJoseph
Margaret Clare
Since this seems to be the thread with a lot on the Carmelite Order, I thought I'd post this here. I didn't realize this for a long time, but there's a particular difference between the OCD Carmelite shield and the O.Carm. sheild. The main way to tell the difference is that the OCDs blend the Cross and Mount Carmel, while the O.Carm sheild is just Mount Carmel.

Order of Mount Carmel shield (Calced)





Discalced Carmelite shield





Besides the Cross, I believe everything else is the same. And while usually the words in the banner are in Latin, sometimes it's written in English:

"With zeal have I been zealous for the Lord God of Hosts"
Margaret Clare
A good history of the order/orders and the split between the two. Also, it's important to note that St. Teresa did not intend to start a whole new Order in the Church, but simply to reform Carmel, going back to the spirit of the hermits on Mt. Carmel. But then in 1593 they were given permission from the Holy See and became a whole separate order. I didn't realize this before.
Margaret Clare
And a good explaination of Carmel's shield:


QUOTE
THE SHIELD OF THE CARMELITE ORDER




The shield of a religious community usually symbolically expresses some key insights into the understanding of their charism. This is particularly true of the Carmelite Shield.

The centre of the shield is a mountain, which symbolises both the actual mountain, Mt Carmel in Israel where the Order was born, but it also, and more importantly, symbolises the soul's union with God through prayer and contemplation. The process of this union with God is looked at, especially by St John of the Cross, as climbing the mountain of the Lord.

On top of the mountain is a cross, symbolising the person of Jesus Christ and His saving death on the Cross for us. The Cross is in the centre of the shield, symbolising our need to centre all that we are and all that we do on the person of Jesus Himself.

There are also three stars on the shield. The lowest star, directly below the Cross, represents Mary, Mother and Queen of Carmel. She is symbolically represented at the heart of Carmel and, in her role as Mother of God, is the one from whom the Cross, i.e. the Lord Jesus came forth, hence the Cross rising from her star. The two stars adjacent to the Cross represent the earliest patriarchs of the Order, St Elijah and St Elisha, the pre-Christian founders of Carmel.

The crown with its twelve stars also represents Mary, calling to mind St John’s glorious vision of her in Revelations as crowned with 12 stars.

The arm and the fiery sword represent Elijah who, in his great burning zeal for the Lord, called down fire from Heaven.

The inscription is the Latin translation of Elijah’s words in 1st Kings; “With zeal I have been zealous for the Lord God of Hosts.”

So the Carmelite lives centred on Christ, under the Queenship of Mary, inspired by and with the zeal of Elijah and Elisha.
TotusTuusMaria
J.M.J.

QUOTE(Emile James @ Jan 7 2007, 10:18 PM) [snapback]1158502[/snapback]
Grace and to you, Peace,
Great thanks for the info,i always was sure they were true to the faith and carmel, and in the patience of waiting for Rome its regular to be..irregular!:)
i just love the photos of their carmel and the fact they assist at Traditional Liturgy..just things seem unclear of where they are at under the Bishop.
i was hoping someone with experience would say something , i received my information from a RadTrad Blog guy, who had visited around therein 2005 fall..if i find again his blog ..ill put it up.. and regarding the Servants of the Holy Family, i read below, among many other similar things..
From the Colorado Springs Gazzete
"The Roman Catholic Diocese of Colorado Springs is taking aim at what it calls a renegade church in Black Forest and asking its members to return to the fold.

In a letter to about 60 households, Bishop Michael Sheridan said Servants of the Holy Family is not part of the Roman Catholic Church, despite what church priests tell them.

"I entreat you to separate yourself from the Servants of the Holy Family and return to full communion with the Roman Catholic Church," Sheridan wrote in his letter. "No one can claim to be authentically Catholic if he or she is not in communion with the diocesan bishop and the Pope."

Sheridan said the separation nullifies some Catholic sacraments such as marriage and reconciliation, also called confession or penance.

Former members claim that Servants of the Holy Family is out of sync with the Catholic Church in other ways, too, saying the church is as much a personality cult as a place of worship.
...
Servants of the Holy Family is a church and seminary of 100-150 congregants at 8025 Maverick Road.

Father Allan Kucera, one of five priests at the church, said by e- mail that the church will not answer questions about the church or Sheridan's letter.

"Servants of the Holy Family will neither participate in a public debate or controversy, nor will it in any way contribute to the strife and division already present today in the Catholic Church," Kucera said in his e-mail.

"If anyone is interested, he or she may come and see for themselves what we are about."
--------------------------

i am wondering if the Servants are closely tied and still Chaplains for that Carmel though?or the FSSP
-E-J


This was the first Carmel I actually became attracted too enough to write. They were very nice. They also seemed to me to be a very traditional community. They have many new vocations (and a number on the way). Then, I questioned their faithfulness to Rome seeing as they had never mentioned being faithful to Rome at all. Actually a friend of mine knows the Bishop there and they made a phone call. We were told that they were a "renegade community". So, I have not written back to them. One can phone the Diocese of Colorado Springs and they will fax the Bishop's letter on this and the Servants of the Holy Family over. It really was very upsetting to me to find this out. In my correspondence with them they were very kind. We should all pray for this community that something is done about this controversy. The women seem very holy and good too me. We need good sisters like these! ... If only they were recognized by the Church sad.gif

I wrote this because I wanted to defend the Sisters. They always seemed very good to me. The only thing that I ever found to be wrong with this community was the fact that they were not recognized by Rome, and that con was big enough to out weigh all the good things. We should not think bad of the sisters though. They are very holy women. We should pray for them.

Edit: As far as I know the Servants of the Holy Family are still the chaplains for their community. I believe it even says that on their web page. As far as I know, the nuns are not in union with Rome either because of this.

In Jesus and Mary,
Marie
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