Please help me improve Vocation Station! Give me feedback on what you like and dislike, what works and what doesn't. What would you like to see? Are there resources that would be useful here? What are they? Do you have any big ideas? Let me know.

I for one would like to see Vocation Station flourish and blossom as we continue to receive new members. I would also like this space to be of great value to all who seek God's will in their vocation, whether that will be married life, single life, or religious life.

That in mind, I would like to hear from EVERYONE - even if you are not discerning a religious vocation!


It is you that will make Vocation Station what it needs to be. Those of you who use this space know what works and what doesn't and what could be helpful to future members. Those of you who do not often visit because it seems geared toward religious vocations, you can help us implement ideas that would help draw from all areas of vocational discernment. It is up to you to help make this happen, so get busy! Put your thinkin' caps on, y'all!


I'm all ears!

i would love for VS to be more about all vocations, not just religious. while religious life is (obviously) important, it would be nice to talk more about single and married life as well.

I'd like to see more about secular orders, as well.

Great idea! Perhaps The Little Way would like to help us with that!

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I would be disappointed to see this turn into a place for "all vocations". In theory, that sounds great, but I think it would just be too broad and too muddled. It's important for us to have a place to go just to talk about religious life... where else in this world can we do that?

I'm down with talking about the married and consecrated single life, but I think it should be a separate phorum

Note, the phorum title specifically spells out, discerning a RELIGIOUS vocation. I think that's important. Vocation Station is unique and important and shouldn't morph into something else.

That's my opinion.

I think that's sad. I think a lot of people feel left out. Where are they supposed to go? I hardly think adding a whole other phorum is the way to go. Perhaps we should have a main vocations phorum with the religious vocations section being a child phorum.

I've loved watching people discern to various communities and such because it's helped with my discernment to the Benedictine Oblates. And it's encouraging, to know that there are people who are still interested in becoming priests and nuns and such.

I've posted a couple times in the "Benedictines Strike Back" thread about becoming an Oblate, because I don't know where else it would go. It's a vocation, but not in the same sense as most of the other people on this board. So sometimes I feel awkward/left out talking about it because it's not the same vocation that this board focuses on (and so I think who would want to hear about that!). There's not too many secular order peoples here, so it's like YAY Vocation but not to the convent so alot of experiences and pictures I just stopped posting/talking about because I feel it just doesn't belong here.

(sorry if that seemed a little "woe is me" )

But would too many child phorums be too hectic? Confusing?

I vote for making it for all vocations. Discerning a call to marriage and the single life is very difficult, confusing, and lonely at times, just like discerning a call to the relgious life.

There would only be on child phorum. It would be specifically for those discerning a call to the religious life (in convents and monasteries).

The whole I idea still seems a bit wrong to me but if that were the vote and we had dUSt supporting that, then I think that would be what it was. (Like in Transmundane Lane where you have The Word.Werd. and The Fuzzy Bunny Crusade)

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P.S.

If all the discernment threads are no longer going to be pinned, it would be nice to have a "Vocation Resources" pinned thread too. If you want links, I can help.

(p.s. I don't do well with change )

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Reflecting...

Is vocation station just not good enough as it is? Haven't the fruits of insane numbers of vocations proven what a great place it is? Again, I have nothing against marriage -it is a BEAUTIFUL and AMAZING gift from God, for those who are called. However, married people have tons, and tons of places to go to talk with other married people. Where do discerners to religious communities go for fraternity? Why do we have to "expand" to be "inclusive" if it means loosing our focus and tight family of discerners? More isn't always better. Honesly, I'm really annoyed at making this "inclusive land". That's no reason to do anything, tell me WHY.

I feel like England and the EU!

Blessings,
Fiat,
V

Ok, here is my 2 cents worth.

I feel the best way around things would be to have a number of pinned threads at the top of the vocation station dealing with specific paths, in that way no one is left out.

EG-

One for the guys discerning priesthood
One for the guys discerning to a religious order

Why separate them, well they are two different things, not all guys that join an order are ordained, so I think there needs to be separation there. Also there may need to be further separation of those discerning to active and contemplative orders

One for the singles

As it is a calling in itself with its own challenges that need to be talked about.

One for those who are thinking marriage

More or less for the same reason as the singles

Now here is where it gets sticky....

I felt the thread on discernment for girls had its limits for me personally.....you see 18 was a long time ago and I am in the older group when it comes to discernment, so what I would ask can there be a younger and older say.....30 and over thread?

We may also want to contemplate a separation of active and contemplative life for the women to......as we all know it is two different forms of life.....

Ok that is my 2 cents,
Belinda

I understand that marriage is a gift from God, and a wonderful gift at that, but there are other places you can go for that.

Discerning a vocation, however, is definatly the path less traveled, and it can be very scary. I have a hard time talking even to my family and friends about my vocation, because even though they support me with their prayers, they really dont understand the religious life.

For me, having a place to go and people to talk to has been a big help. It has been wonderful to talk about the differneces in orders, habits, charisms, and not have people think I am crazy for wanting that.

What I am trying to say, I gues, is that the vocation station has seemed to me like a tight-knit group of people with the same gaol in mind. Even though I have never met and may never meet any of you, you have shared your problems with me and let me tell you mine. I think it sould stay about vocations; mens, womens, priesthood, brotherhood, sisterhood, or cloistered life. I dont really think that it is excluding people, because there are those like Gemma (not to pick on you!) who are not discerning, but still have a great deal of insight to offer to us. Bottom line, the vocation station should stay about vocations to the religious life. Just my two cents.

It's not like the religious vocation part would go away... it would all still be here. Just something to think about.

I feel it might be beneficial to invite different Vocational directors to answer a [limited] number of questions here. It could be with men or women's orders.

Someone could get in contact, get approval, gather questions and then place the answers here if the director had no desire to come on-line. Some info about the Order would be very inviting and might click with a young woman here. Is this do-able? I don't know...I'm just an old married woman, you young-uns go for it

I agree with many here... I really like that we can come here and talk with other discerners. Marriaige is a beautiful vocation and I think it would be great if there were a place were those who feel called to marraige or the single life could talk. I think I like the idea of making it where vocation station is for all vocations but, were it could have a seperate place for religious vocations... or keep it the way it is....




yes yes!!!

Y'all,

If everyone will settle down for a minute or two I will explain some things. I know it was a fast transition and I apologize for not taking it slower. Hear me out.


First: As far as the suggestions to pin more topics with resources for vocational discernment, I'm working on it. I am busy (believe it or not) with other things too so I can only whip out so many things in one day. The list of discerners, entering and entered was a big project in itself.

When I leave here, I will continue to work on a list of convents and monasteries. It will include all of the ones mentioned in the other thread and then some. I hope to include things like vocation directors, addresses, contact numbers, websites, and orthodoxy ratings (which is something else I will discuss).

It's on it's way! And Veritas, if you would like to help me with this, I would be more than happy to have you!


Second: I understand that many of you have fond memories here and enjoy the discussion with fellow discerners. I do too. However, we are a phamily here at phatmass and we seek to promote the holiness of all of our members. In doing that, it is important that we foster ALL vocations. Sure, we could send them elsewhere. But why turn them away? We have amazing resources at our disposal here and, with the love of Christ in our hearts, our spirits set ablaze by the fire of the Holy Spirit - which cares not only for our own soul, but all souls - we should seek to serve all who come our way.

Including vocations to the married, single, and consecrated life is not going to ruin what Vocation Station is. I think most of you are nervous that you're going to lose your fellowship. You aren't! The same people that make Vocation Station what it is now will continue to make it that in the future. After all, the chances of the married folk dropping into your threads are not going to increase very much, even if they are sharing a space with you. They will have their threads.

And you know, as I say this, I am still saddened at the complete lack of charity here. Why can we not share our space and invite our brothers and sisters in to share our journey? This is not the love we seek to share with the world. We must be kind and generous and loving and supportive. You don't lose your fellowship by being kind. If anything, the fellowship will grow stronger.


Third: Please, if you can, try to trust. I am not doing this on a whim. I have felt moved for some time to bring about a renewal in this board. It may even be bigger than a renewal. The point, though, is that I feel moved by the Spirit to do this. And I do it prayerfully and with open ears. I am not here to take away something you love. Remember, I love it too. I share it too. So please, take a few minutes to pray and ask the Holy Spirit to guide the direction of this board and of this whole site. Ask the Lord to make it what He wants it to be, not what we want it to be. Give it over to Christ and let's move forward, leaving anger, frustration, and all axiety behind us.


Christ tells us in the scriptures, "Ask and it will given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door shall be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened." (Matthew 7: 7-8) He tells us through St. Paul, "Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything through prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your request to God."

Remembering this, take your petition to the Lord. Lay it before your Father and let Him do with it what He will.


Praised be His Holy Name for ever and ever! Amen.


May the Lord give you his peace.
Respectfully,
hugheyforlife


Precisely. Wise one, you are.


That is a great idea! I will work on that. Thank you for your suggestion!

I'm putting together a list of Religious Communities (mostly cloistered/contemplative) for both men and women... it'll have e-mails for vocation contacts and mailing addresses, phone #s, websites, fax numbers, and whatever contact information is avaliable It isn't very far along, but it i coming along nicely

That will be a wonderful resource here. That is, if you don't mind sharing.

ps. Laura, you are doing a good job... I think that this will be a change for the better!


I don't mind sharing at all in the least bit!

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Alright, I don't like it. I've told you my reasons why. If you think it's "uncharitable" to want to have things organized and concise (separate phorums for discerners and non-discerners to religious life), I think we're missing the point. Obviously, this is your vision and you're in charge. It was sudden, and I don't like sudden change. So, I'm probably just in a bad mood! That being said, this isn't a moral issue, just a prudential one. So, since no one's salvation is hanging in the balance, it's really not that big of a deal. But please, don't misrepresent this as a "we don't want to encourage everyone to holiness in their vocation" argument -that's not the argument being stated. Instead, I think subsidiarity and like-communities have been proposed and substantiated as a successful model. I don't know what's going to happen, but I hope you're right. As of now, VS has been REALLY successful -and I would hate to see that change!

I've said my piece, I'm done, I sincerely hope it works as well as you anticipate. I would love to be proven wrong and to see it flourish the way you hope!

But, I still don't like it. (missing grumpy the dwarf smilie)

Adding my two cents.

I'd go with a main forum called Vocation Station, then subforums. I'm pretty set with my vocation -- i.e. I'm not looking to get married, I'm not becoming a priest (I'm a woman), and right now I'm looking at religious life ... and until such time that it looks like religious life is not what I am called to I've specifically ruled out secular institutes.

From my point of view -- at my parish about 99% of the people I'm with are married. They have activities for married couples, and many times during retreats they will talk about married life. There is nothing for singles, and less for those who are discerning religious life (I'm the only woman that I know of at this point, although I suspect there are others around). When I go onto vocation station I enjoy knowing that other like minded folks are reading and responding, and talking about their journeys.

What I'm worried about is an influx of discussions about issues that aren't related to religious life or discernment. .... if there are subforums, then its easier to weed through. When I have the spare time I can jump into the forum (for example I'd probably would be most likely to jump into a "seminarian" forum just so that if someone needs prayers or is having a hard time I could pray).

I don't know about others -- but I stick to Vocation Station about 80% of my time, and the other 20 is the Q&A. I don't venture much into open mike, or the other forums because I don't have hours to spend reading.

Please don't misunderstand the disagreement to just putting other vocations in the same spot ... I honestly want there to be a subforum for those who are single and not discerning (maybe decidedly single or decidedly looking for a mate); one for those who are married who could discuss issues that wouldn't be as appropriate in vocation station/religious life, etc. Its just that I'd like there not to be "clutter" and at least some nice way to sift through the threads.

This is one of the reasons I don't go into some of the other forums more often ... I really don't have much time to weed out stuff.

Finally ... and idea -- would there be any way to tag the topic with a vocation type? And provide a way to filter on those? That could be a compromise (it would give someone like me the liberty to just filter on a "religious life" type match).

I pray that the Lord appropriately guides and that what comes out will be a gift.

-- Carmen

Carmen brings up a great point
In my earlier post I suggested something similar but it may not have come out right.
So here goes a rephrase-

Set aside a certain amount of threads pinned at the top of the vcoation station, name them clearly according to type of vocation and then leave the rest of the board to the usual postings. Then you cover all bases and no one is left out.

I HATE it when someone saying I've found my vocation and its not to religious life and then they disappear......
I do want to know how they go, if they marry or what else. I want to be able to rejoice with them.

I am an Oblate (ok, only an oblate postulant), but to hear someone has made that commitment is a time to party in my books.

Vocation is an inclusive word.....why are we elevating a particular form of vocation over another.......

Belinda

I respect your discomfort. I again ask that you trust. Give me some time. It doesn't happen in a day. Pray for this. And trust.

One thing you pointed out was the desire to have things organized and concise. That is precisely one reason this is happening. Believe it or not, things were not concise. They were a mess. It was total clutter. I'm working to reduce clutter and increase usability.


Carmen,

I understand your concerns. They are similar to others in this thread. If you have not already read this post, please do. I address those concerns there.

Give this some time. If we find that it is not working as well as hoped, I can talk to dUSt about setting up child forums. I honestly don't think that is necessary. I really just want to take this a day at a time.

I hope you understand.

Okay, I thought I would add my 2 cents also.

Yesterday morning I read the thread in the beginning and was thinking of it a bit throughout the day. I was thinking to myself, subforums would be the way to go.

Then coming back tonight reading all the posts, I really agreed with the ideas of Veritas and HeavenlyCalling and others about how great it is to have a place just to talk about religious life, because in the world, and our parishes, it's hard to find - and even if there's some talk on it, it's always together with everything else. But here you can talk just on religious life, and all the specifics, and meet similar people and learn about all the different great orders, etc, in a tight knit community.

But then I thought, well Vocation Station really could be on all the vocations, especially since we are using the term, "vocation" because there isn't anywhere else on phatmass to talk on all the other vocations specifically. All the vocations mentioned here are wonderful and much needed, each and every part of the Mystical Body of Christ.

So, agreeing with the ideas of InHisLight and Carmen, I think subforums is the way to go. There could be a main Vocation Station page, and then the specific sub/child forums. I think this would be both including everyone, and allowing particular groups a place to talk more on a specific calling. Then small tight knit communities can more easily form and there can be a greater exchange of insights, and many different threads within one subforum.

I know you were saying on the main Vocation Station there could be threads on a topic for example on marriage and others for religious life, but it would really be a lot more organized and cleaner (and welcoming for each group to start many topics within each particular subforum.)

And the community of all at Vocation Station could still remain, because there would still be the main page and anyone could go into any of the subforums and see how people are doing, or add new insights. And if, like InHisLight said, there was a thread e.g. on Benedictine religious life, she could post there too of course. And for another example, if in a marriage forum, the topic was good homeschooling, I could say, hey guys I have friend who was homeschooled in this great program called the Kolbe Academy .. etc. Or I could go into a Diocesan Sem/Priest subforum and say something on what's happening at my brother's seminary. Or anyone could say anything in any of the threads in the subforums like, blessings on your discernment, prayers, etc - you get what I mean. Anyone could post/view anywhere, like how brendan1104 posted on the 1st vows of the PCPAs at Portsmouth.

There could be several subforums {just an example, I may not be organizing these right}, like Marriage, Family Life, Single Life, Secular Institutes/Consecrated Virgins/Third Orders, Religious Life (3rd Orders could go here also) ( separate ones for Brothers&Priests, Active, Cloistered Life - as InHisLight suggested) & Diocesan Priests&Sem.s, & .... last but not least, Deacons!! the permanent diaconate (my dad is one :j ) - or there could be less - whatever would work best.

Making several subforums like this I think would make Vocation Station better (and more inclusive) because:

1) It's pointing out all the vocations and giving them equal space and importance, e.g. like for the permanent diaconate, this may help some young men who feel called to marriage and the priesthood remember this less spoken of vocation & ordination

2) It's not just making the separation between Married Life, Single Life, and Religious (and Diocesan) as if to cut them apart in some way. It's making lots of separations, so separating is not really an issue (as opposed to having 1 separate child forum for those discerning to be a priest, nun, brother, etc - though if this would be more realisitic, no problem - just shooting ideas out here) And it wouldn't have to be all the specific separate subforums I suggusted, if this would be too much.

3) While including everyone discerning Christ's call in their lives, it would also allow, to an even greater extent, closer knit communities and encourage more discussion on specific topics some may want to talk about that, if everything were in the VC main page, might seem out of place and rather not worth posting among all the other topics, like hmmm, like the Postulants' dresses topic or any other specific topics like this :j

(I hope, I've not been too complicated here!! I think the subforums way would make it simpler and organized.)

I realize this would be an ENORMOUS project, but how resourceful it would be, and inviting to all - a real Vocation Station! ( ... that's truly an inspiration, it'll be a sensation! .. We'll have a vocation plantation! - 101 Dalmations, sorry I couldn't help myself )

But before I leave, I wanted to say, you're doing an awesome job hughey!! The religious discerners/entering/entered post was GREAT! (sorry my post was so long - if it becomes simpler, I'll PM it to you)

Yes, you must be very busy, and with the upcoming retreat! I decided myself that after tonight I will abandon the internet for awhile before I leave to prepare.

Many blessings on all your hard work and especially your discernment for the upcoming retreat!!

--Margaret Clare

Why? Because the Church expands to take on new members. Having been a seminarian, I see that it is good for those discerning priesthood or religious life to have a place to discuss those things, but it's not like married people are going to be hijacking your religious discernment threads with threads about their marriage discernment. They are going to have their own threads. If you don't want to go into them, you don't have to. Anything they post in religious discernment threads will be helping those discerning religious life.

Picture this: a phorum where everyone seeks common goals in seeking the Lord's will for their lives and works together on accomplishing that goal in its various forms. Those discerning religious life will see those discerning married life and vice versa, they will start to view things more fully as a Church made of many people with many vocations who work together to accomplish God's will. This is a good thing. It's how the Church works. It is not wise to separate religious discerners from married discerners too early (they will be separated in due course, in postulancy, novitiate, etc.), at the very early stages of discernment, they need to see what vocations are out there and they need to encourage and be encouraged by all. It means something to a person entering religious life to be encouraged by their other religious-oriented friends. It also means a lot to be encouraged by their secular friends and those called to religious life. Vocations are born in the Church, the whole Church, and that is their context. Let the whole Church be represented and you will find a greater richness.

Raphael says it pretty much for me, though I like Mary-Kathryn's idea of finding a few more VD's to post from time to time, too. Sr. Mary Catherine and Sr. Mary Michael have been able to clarify many points about religious life and discernment as it is today (vs. back in the dark ages of my youth !)!

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I said it before, and I'll say it again, no one doesn't want there to be marriage vocations and a place to discuss them here on pm. A few have just said they want an individual space for religious discerners. The thing is, any thread related to marriage going on the same phorum will make tons of new threads. It will be confusing and cluttered. I have no desire to sift through it all. Now, sometimes would I go to another phorum to read new things about marriage, just to be educated? Yes! But, I don't want to have to wade throug it all everytime. I like the separation. The same way debate phorum is separated from Q and A and lame board from open mic -they are significantly different! Vocation is HUGE!

Oh, and by the way, in the words of the Council of Trent and His Holiness John Paul the Great, A vocation to the religious life is OBJECTIVELY a higher calling. NOT that those called are better in any way, but by God's grace, their religious life IS a higher calling because by its vows, it more closely emulates the life of Christ. Again, it's NOT me creating this -if you don't like it, take it up with Christ, the Magisterium, the Pope, Scripture, and 2,000 years of Tradition. Just wanted to point that out in the midst of some post Vatican II confusion.

In the end, dUSt is the "pope" of phatmass. If this is the way he wants to do it, I completely and happily defer to his judgement.

It was perhaps a little cluttered or redundant at times, but I really liked the threads that had been around for years. It's nice to read "Girls in Discernment" and "For Boys only threads." It was a great place for people to go and briefly (or not) comment about something without creating an entire new thread. That's what I'd really like to see with all these changes--a place to just throw in 2 cents every now and again without starting a new thread (and a place to go and read conversations that have taken place over a long time).

I'm not a huge fan of change either--has to do with my need for control --but I'm praying for the efforts that are being put into these changes.

Those threads are still here, just not pinned anymore. Its not as though we're doing away with all the things you love about the Vocation Station. I truly think that the changes will be gradual and for the better. Its going to take awhile for people to get used to on both sides of the fence, so to speak. In the long run I think alot more support and prayer for those discerning (no matter what their chosen vocation) will be fostered with this change.

If Phatmass had the space to give an individual phorum to each significantly different thing in the Catholic faith without obnoxious clutter, it would be a much larger website, but that would not be to its benefit. Different vocations are different, as different as members of the Church...but members of the Church still have to share the Church. The phorums you mention above are separated because they have different purposes, namely, answering questions, being silly, and general discussion. Two vocations phorums, one for religious life and one for married life makes no sense because the two are one category and one purpose: discernment.



Are you assuming that I don't agree with this? Just because it's objectively higher doesn't mean it has a right to be separated from the rest of the Church.

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My only question is, this thread was started asking for opinions. So, far every single thing the mods agree with has been applauded and told they're already planning. Everything else has been dismissed.. If everything had already been decided on, WHY was this thread created? It's dishonest, misleading, and looks like an attempt at pats on the back. If no one was really interested in what people think, which is born out by the dismissal of "dissenting" thinkers, WHY is this here?



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I appreciate what you're saying, and I think you make a good point. However, because of the breadth and depth of vocation -it permeats every aspect of life, I think they deserve separate spaces -just from a practical standpoint.

No, I'm not assuming. It was addressing previous posts. No, I'm not speaking of "rights of separation" I would never shroud it in those terms. What I am saying, is what is helpful. That is, people discerning religious life are such an anomaly it's been really nice to have a special place for us! Now, that will be gone.

Okay, first, please stop using the word "vocation" as if it only means "religious vocation." That's not the teaching of the Church.

So you want a special place where those discerning religious life can go to discern, to be set apart, and be treated well? That would be the postulancy.

It's great for people with religious vocations to have a certain place for discernment amongst themselves, but whenever that is done in the real world, it is set apart from the rest of the world in a private place. This phorum is like trying to have that community in the middle of a generic Catholic conference. There are lots of other things going on around you and this phorum is not private. It's not like the cloister. It's like having a booth at a Catholic conference. You are here to discuss with people interested in religous life, correct? This is the public side of religious discernment. It has to be open to the world. It has to be open to people coming up and saying, "hello, Sister, I'm discerning marriage, myself, but I thought I'd stop by to say hi and see how things are going with your discernment. Maybe you'd like to help me discern my call to marriage or to pray for me? We're all in this together, you know..." This is a very public place and should be open to discussing all vocations. It is not the nature of a web phorum to be an online cloister where those discussing religious vocations may meet in private.

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Raphael.

1. I am very intentionally NOT using the word "vocation" to refer just to religious vocations. You misread my post. I very puposefully used "vocation" to designate that single and married EACH deserve their own space! If you will be kind enough to review my posts, you will see your claim was unfounded. I am well aware of the teaching of the Church. Although, please note the phatmass vocation blurb, which pointedly does otherwise, "Vocation Station Do you have questions about becoming a priest or a nun? Want to talk about your journey into the religious life? This is the place homey." By it's own design, VS has been a place for discernment to the priesthood and/or religious life! In addition, you must know as well as anyone that historically, up until Vatican II, "vocation" referred to that of priest or religious, so it is natural that that usage is still in place in our language and is sometimes used to connotate priesthood and/or religious life alone.

2. There are many people here who are pre-postulants and aspirants. Discernment isn't just for postulancy. If it was, no one would ever end-up in a convent or monastery! Peole come here with their questions about religious life and the seminary/priesthood. Anyone is welcome to participate and ask a question! And, people often do who are not actively discerning. This is no "cloister" it IS open to anyone, simply FOCUSED! It is helpful to talk with like-minded individuals. No, personally, I would not go to someone who is married to help me discern my call to the religious life in a serious way. I would go to someone who knows more about it like a priest or religious or other discerners to the life.

Step back ya'll and as Laura stated, pray and trust. I believe in her and I believe that no one is looking for a generic pat on the back. No one wants to take away anything from anyone, just bring the fruits to all.

Lets not turn this into an us vs them scenario.

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Okay, I've thought about it a little bit, and this would be my ideal solution.

1. Have one phorum named "Vocation Station" with a blurb something like "Get help living, learning, and discerning your Vocation -whatever it is!"

2. With Two Subphorums. A. Titled, "Consecrated/Religious Life" B. Titled "Marriage and Family Life" or vice versa

Let me say, I've never been on Creepy Aliens. Why? Because I'm too old! Do I feel left-out or not-included? No. Why? Because I recognize that it's fruitful for peers to have their own space. And, that's all I'm advocating for for Religious/Consecrated and Married discerners and livers.

Obviously, I have no authority here and no one has to do what I suggest. However, I want to make it clear, that my only motivation is to make VS the best, most productive, and most helpful place it can be -for all us.

Pax,
V

Wow! I missed A LOT!


Margaret Clare, before I get ahead of myself, I think you have great ideas! Perhaps we can discuss them sometime soon!


Veritas, I do not wish to argue any longer. However, I would like to address one point you made that would have me frustrated if I felt what you do. You mentioned this being a place for ideas to improve. You went on to say that whenever an idea is presented someone says they're already working on it. Well, to my memory, there have only been two things I have said I am working on. The first was a list of orders with contact information and an orthodoxy rating scale - and a list of resources for those discerning religious life. You will see that I've already pinned the second part of that.

I've had probably three or four people throw the same idea out about contacts for different orders. I too had had this idea. So it was great that we were all thinking along the same lines. As is the case with most things, not everything happens in public view. Behind the scenes there are about three or four people working on projects. I won't name names because I'm not sure they want to be thrown into this back and forth. But they are on board and working hard. And I appreciate it.

Outside of those two things, most of what has gone on here is bickering over whether or not this change should be happening. We have been very rational about responses. We do have the support of the webmaster and are trying to make the change as comfortable and as smooth as possible.

I really don't have much else to say as some of the other moderators have done a good job saying what I would.

If there's anything else you'd like to discuss, please feel free to let me know. We're not trying to silence you, nor have we ignored what you're saying. In fact, you have gotten more attention in this thread than anyone. Why? Because we aren't here to make you unhappy. We want to resolve the differences.

So please don't be upset.


May the Lord give you His peace!


Respectfully,
hugheyforlife

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Hughey,

I don't want to "bicker" either, I want to address the issues. Ultimately, this isn't about my being "upset" or not, that doesn't really matter. It's about being honest if you ask for people's opinions and sincerely addressing the issues. -e.g. I imagine I've received the most "attention" because I've posted the most!

I realize others are working on this, that's why I stated 'modS' and I appreciate their dialogue. That doesn't change the fact that you (the mods and dUSt) seem to have made all decisions prior to asking for our imput, which again, begs the question, "why ask?"

Ultimately, this isn't about making anyone "feel bad" it's about making VS the best it can be and being honest. Sometimes, "feeling bad" is the natural result of injustice.

Since, even though opinions were solicited, decisions have already been made... there's no real point in anyone posting here, is there? Except to be affirmed or denied or get some "sneak peek". I'm perfectly fine with an outright monarchy, as long as it doesn't front as a democracy.

V

p.s. I've spent some fierce time in "inter-religious debate" so this doesn't bother me. However, I can see if you're not used to it, that this kind of dialogue can be intense and distressing. I think it's important to realize that we may be coming from two different mindsets about the purpose of this thread, I think it's important to dialogue. It's only pointless 'arguing' if we're not thinking.

Okay, first: I wasn't referring to mods working on this! No, I'm talking about long-time members of Vocation Station. The other mods only popped their heads in. As of now, none of them are working on side projects. So, you don't have a reason to think we've all come together to make decisions without you and then ask you for no reason.

Second: The ONLY decision that has been made is to incorporate all vocations. The OP may have been a bit misleading and for that I apologize. I was looking for things like this:

I think it's good to keep large, general threads pinned.
It would be good to have a list of orthodox orders.
I would like to see more information on Consecrated Virgins.
I think a single list of phatmass religious would be helpful. One person could edit it and it would help keep things neat.


You see? That's what I was looking for. So, in that sense, we have not done anything to wrong you.

Third: I do not believe any 'injustice' is being done. What injustice do you feel is being done?

1) I liked the threads that were pinned before. And I like the threads that are pinned now. I liked that they'd been started and continued over a long period of time and that everyone was able to contribute to them to foster genuine conversation.

2) SUPER! God bless all working on this large task.

3) Perfect! Especially in light of some conversations we've had on this topic over the last few months.

4) That existed before. And it was easy enough to be edited by anyone and keep neat (even though there were a few of us who were primary editors).

I think that if all the vocations to the religious life were thrown in there with the vocations to the married life it would be very confusing. I think the idea of having two sub-forums is a good idea, you could go to either one, but the people discerning the religious life could still have our close-knit sence of phamily.

There are plently of places that you can talk about marriage and dating in your life. You can talk about it with your parents, with your friends, or with your boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse/significant other, because most people go through this in thier life, there are plently of places to talk about it.

That said, I think a sub-phorum would be nice because you could talk about dating, ask for prayers for your ______ (fill in the blank i.e boyfriend, girlfriend), Catholic education of children ect.

But having a separet place for the religious-life-discernment-people is very important, at least to me. This is where I spend most of my time on phatmass (I read some of the others, but I mostly post here) and where I feel the most comfortable. Mostly I dont want to loose the sence of pham, when I come here with a question or concern I know I will get a responce from someone who has gone through the same thing, or IS going through the same thing, I want to keep the sence of Pham, is my bottom line.

Those were all just fake examples but if you like them, hey! Great! We'll go with it! And about the one quoted above, that thread had a lot of extra commentary and you had to scroll back through it to see where the last update was. Add to that errors in coding... it just seems simpler to have the one thread to refer to with the extra thread (unpinned) for other discussion about who is entering when and where. I don't want to kill the discussion, just have a more concise, legible, organized list up top.


Okay I'll say it again...

You aren't going to lose that! We're all still here. And it will be clear which threads are for religious life and which are not. There are still going to be religious vocation discerners here to comment and pray and support you. It's not going away!

I'll think of something more to say to this effect later. I understand y'all are worried that you are going to be losing something. But you're not.

Time for work now... play nice.

hmm... well I've read through the whole thread and I must say that I agree on many points with Veritas and Heavenly Calling. However, I think I will just wait and see. Perhaps the changes won't be that big?...

Yeah, I totally agree with them. However, I don't like wasting time online so I'm not on phatmass that much any more - so my opinion isn't that important.

God bless!

I only come on to PM every few days or so and had my computer in the shop for over a week. I come back and WOW! What a debate.

I've seen several threads in the past on VS on the married life. And God bless you all who are married who DO consider your marriage a vocation. Because so few do, even though it is a vocation and one that is incredibly difficult to live. In fact, I think we need MORE threads on married life as a vocation. If we do, maybe more people, especially those visiting this phorum will start looking at it AS a vocation. You know? And yet, right now, I don't see much space devoted to the married life. VS is the only phorum where I've seen threads dedicated as such. I can't see that threads for other vocations belonging any where else. Not only that, but if there were even more pages made for PM, wouldn't that increase the necessary bandwidth and cost more for Dust?

I really enjoyed discovering PM earlier this year, when I was discerning. I had in fact, already chosen the monastery where I wanted to enter, but it was great seeing that I wasn't alone in my discernment. After leaving the monastery, I was. . .well, I was lost. I knew that while my vocation was to holiness, my vocation as a state in life. . .well, I wasnt' sure where I was being called. Consecrated single? 3rd order? Religious? Married? I still don't know but truly, VS to me, is pretty EXclusive, rather than inclusive, concentrating more on the vocation to the religious life. I personally would LIKE to see more threads on various vocations, so that those who have begun their initial discernment might be able to see the various forms that vocational discernment takes.

I can't say that I would find 'wading' through the various subject titles of threads as tedious. If there's someone who is looking into discerning their vocation and not quite sure of the path. . they'd have to flip back and forth to the various phorums or subphorums. I enjoy the threads all together.

I rarely go to any of the other phorums. Not sure where our Lord is calling me, I cannot imagine flipping through phorums gathering information and posting. When I think of subdividing I think of a hypothetical. . .a woman discerning cloistered Carmel and posts for info on spirituality. Then say there's a 3rd order Carmelite who posts on another 3rd order sub phorum. She would have to flip from her own sub phorum to the 'religious life' subphorum in order to even see that thread and know it exists before she could respond. Now? Any 3rd order threads, etc. are already on the same phorum, making things much more simple.

My thoughts are that we should make VS a universal vocation discernment phorum. It seems less divisive. . . I hope my opinion doesn't offend anyone's sensibilities. It's just my own perspective. My $.02, if you will.

Pax Christi,

D.

You share our vision. I agree with the points you make as they are the ones I have attempted to make throughout the thread.

+

The points that seem to have been made in this thread:

If Hughey has an idea about VS, then she is beyond reproach.

If Hughey asks for opinion, she means only those with which she agrees.

If Hughey proposes an idea based on "trust" and "hope", then it must be accepted, because, after all, who argues with "trust" and "hope" and is simultaneously religious?

If you agree with Hughey, she will post a smilie applauding you.

If you disagree with Hughey, she will dance around the issue in a long response post.

If you are a mod, you don't need to be neutral in a "debate" you begin.


This, sadly, is what this entire thread appears to have been.

Where is the fruit? What is the purpose? WHY is it going on?

Just do what you're going to do already and stop this farce at democracy and community. This thread should go away -it is flawed in its original posting, for a variety of reasons, which I believe were illustrated above.

Whenever a moderator does something that some other member doesn't like, the moderator all of a sudden has a personal vendetta.

Whenever a moderator, regardless of the support of many, impliments something someone doesn't like, we're out to ruin the fun for everyone.

Whenever a moderator does anything that someone doesn't like, they are immediately attacked, criticized, and made to feel evil.


I have done my very best to remain civil - charitable - KIND, even. If I had a problem with a specific person, I took it to a personal message. I have not spoken unkindly of anyone in public. I have done my best to answer questions, respond to concerns, and keep an open mind and heart about this. But I have to say, this is getting out of hand. If it wasn't before, it definitely is now. It has become a personal attack.

I don't appreciate (AS A PERSON) the way I have been treated. I have listened and responded to points just as well as the next person. My answers may not have changed, but neither did the complaints.

I would ask that all of you remember that even though we have a moderator tag strapped to our name, we are still people. And we are people who care about the good of this site. We do our honest-to-goodness best to do everything we do with charity and respect. We give the benefit of the doubt, never doing something if we're unsure about it. And yet we are harped on the minute you don't like something we do. We go unnoticed until it is personal - and then we're disliked.

It has been the same since I became a moderator so I can't say I'm surprised by the words that have been brought up against me. However, the effect is still the same. I am still human and the effect is still the same.

+

1. I don't think you have a "vendetta" but I it seems this thread has been dishonest and it doesn't seem right to pretend otherwise.

2. I don't think you're out to ruin fun -It seems the purpose of this thread has been a sham, and I'm annoyed.

3. If you've done something wrong, I hope you'll to correct it. No one should feel evil, unless they've done evil.

4. An open mind and heart? okay, I'll leave that alone. A personal attack? More an evaluation on the content of the posting. I do believe that's up for review and debate, that's the criteria, right?

5. I don't appreciate the way I have been treated, personally, on this thread or through pm. Why? Because this thread is DISHONEST and there have been personal attacks. Furthermore, if what I stated above is inappropriate, half of debate table should be gone.

6. Yes, as a mod, I hold you to a higher standard -kind of like a priest. With privilege comes responsibility, right?

7. I've started several threads in Open Mic, thanking mods for the work they do. It makes pm a nice place to be. I'm not harping on you, I'm concerned about the appearance of untruthfullness of the original post. I regret that there was no other way to reference the points of the thread creater and moderator, which is significant, but through the use of "hughey". I would have rather stated something less pointed, because I know people take names personally but could find no suitable alternative. I'm sure you are a very good person.


But, you're not answering the points. Are they wrong? Or, is this just another long post dancing around the issue?

At this point, and I've said it before, you have every right to do what you will as mod -just don't pretend a bunch of things are up for discussion, which aren't. I reiterate, this thread is not accomplishing it's goal, it should be closed instead of applauding those, who agree with you and dismissing those who don't as if that's somesort of helpful democracy. Or, move it to the debate table and see what those folks think of all this.

I have said once already:

I am sorry that my original post was misleading. My bad. You know that there is much support for the inclusion of all vocations and we are looking for constructive ideas for making that happen and still helping this place to be easily used by all.

I KNOW I have said that already. And here I am saying it again.

Hate me for being unclear in my first post. But don't continue to say that this thread is dishonest.

Concise enough for you?