I am going to see my spiritual director tomorrow and will ask what he thinks, but what would you do? I have spent my life caring for others, mostly family and abused kids (fostering, adopting etc). I nursed my Mom until she died of cancer. I have Now I am 54 and decided it was time for me - and God.
In obedience to my director, I sent enquiries to over 50 Carmelite communities in the US. I am also waiting on an application that I sent to a convent in the UK - but feel very positive about that. If all goes well, I should be able to enter a convent this summer.
So, my discernment is active and happening, but now...
...my brother is going through a divorce. He just contacted me via email. His wife has been unfaithful for years, and he has remained faithful to their vows and the marriage, but she has recently taken to bringing a boyfriend home to the house and their young son is getting upset, so my brother has finally said "enough is enough" and is divorcing her. She isn't interested in custody and my brother adores his son anyway. Because of his job (US company in Asia) he has to travel a lot. He could leave his son with the housekeeper but doesn't feel this is right and he has asked me to come live with him (in Singapore) to take care of his son until the divorce is final (up to six months?). He will pay for everything of course. After the divorce, he is thinking of returning to Australia or the US to live because we have family in both countries, and he can be near other siblings who will help with his son. He doesn't want to do this until after the divorce however, hence the request to me. He knows I want to be a nun but is asking me to delay it a few months to help him and my nephew.
I am certainly prepared to help him, and it could be a gift from God while I am waiting to enter. My time in Singapore during the day (when my nephew is at school) will be free to go to Mass, say prayers etc. My only concern is that I might be putting family ahead of God again -- and I will never enter a convent! My whole life I seem to have been putting other things first, and that is how I have ended up at 54 still not a nun!
I should be able to find another spiritual director over there, but I will miss the one I have! Does anyone think this is God's Will or a temptation from the devil? I want so much to help him, but I am also fearful that I might be making the wrong decision.... any opinions???
Annie
(California)
Full Version: What Would You Do?
I understand how difficult this is for you, but I believe that your nephew needs the stability and assurance of family when his own life is coming apart. In a very real way, you can see this child as one of the "least of these' that Christ identifies with so much in the Scriptures. I don't know if you could really be at peace behind a cloister wall unless you did help for a while. I will pray especially for you that if you help out your brother, that God will open doors for you in the future.
Just another thought--you have spent your years ministering to others, yet you say, now it's time for you and God--don't forget that in those you have cared for, it's been you and God all along, hasn't it?
In direct answer to your question, yes, God wants you, very much, just as He wants all His children. I know you know that, but it can't hurt to say it 
QUOTE(stlmom @ Feb 28 2007, 09:33 PM) [snapback]1206104[/snapback]
I understand how difficult this is for you, but I believe that your nephew needs the stability and assurance of family when his own life is coming apart. In a very real way, you can see this child as one of the "least of these' that Christ identifies with so much in the Scriptures. I don't know if you could really be at peace behind a cloister wall unless you did help for a while. I will pray especially for you that if you help out your brother, that God will open doors for you in the future.
Thank you. You are echoing many of my own thoughts. It is reassuring.
I am your age so I am answering this as your contemporary. Lets face it, we are not getting any younger. We are not a hot commodity among religious communities these days, who consider anyone over 30 ancient and waiting for nursing home placement(sounds blunt, that is me, sorry). Honey, you helped your family before, you have always been there. When is it going to be your time?
Yes, it would be wonderful if you helped raise your nephew for six months, which could turn into six years very easily. i am not judging your brother, but this has been going on for some time...why should you put your life on hold? AGAIN.
If you are saying, hey, I would love to live in Singapore, and I would love to be exposed to that culture, what fun, that would be very different.
You might be healthy now, but what if you develop an illness? Do you have a religious community that is interested in taking you? Will they be willing to wait even longer for you? When you do enter a cloister, will you be able to dearly love your family, but leave them?
In six months you will be 55 or almost 55, that is another year older.
This is all very difficult, I know that. And you do want to be there for your family who you do love. But you are running out of time. I say pray very hard, and ask the Lord his opinion. I fear if you wait, you will not be accepted anwyere, and you will spend your life saying 'if only....'.
God Bless,
Alicemary
ps, email me anytime if you want to talk further, I do understand what you are going through and have been down a similar path
Yes, it would be wonderful if you helped raise your nephew for six months, which could turn into six years very easily. i am not judging your brother, but this has been going on for some time...why should you put your life on hold? AGAIN.
If you are saying, hey, I would love to live in Singapore, and I would love to be exposed to that culture, what fun, that would be very different.
You might be healthy now, but what if you develop an illness? Do you have a religious community that is interested in taking you? Will they be willing to wait even longer for you? When you do enter a cloister, will you be able to dearly love your family, but leave them?
In six months you will be 55 or almost 55, that is another year older.
This is all very difficult, I know that. And you do want to be there for your family who you do love. But you are running out of time. I say pray very hard, and ask the Lord his opinion. I fear if you wait, you will not be accepted anwyere, and you will spend your life saying 'if only....'.
God Bless,
Alicemary
ps, email me anytime if you want to talk further, I do understand what you are going through and have been down a similar path
QUOTE(alicemary @ Feb 28 2007, 11:15 PM) [snapback]1206177[/snapback]
I am your age so I am answering this as your contemporary. Lets face it, we are not getting any younger. We are not a hot commodity among religious communities these days, who consider anyone over 30 ancient and waiting for nursing home placement(sounds blunt, that is me, sorry). Honey, you helped your family before, you have always been there. When is it going to be your time?
Yes, it would be wonderful if you helped raise your nephew for six months, which could turn into six years very easily. i am not judging your brother, but this has been going on for some time...why should you put your life on hold? AGAIN.
If you are saying, hey, I would love to live in Singapore, and I would love to be exposed to that culture, what fun, that would be very different.
You might be healthy now, but what if you develop an illness? Do you have a religious community that is interested in taking you? Will they be willing to wait even longer for you? When you do enter a cloister, will you be able to dearly love your family, but leave them?
In six months you will be 55 or almost 55, that is another year older.
This is all very difficult, I know that. And you do want to be there for your family who you do love. But you are running out of time. I say pray very hard, and ask the Lord his opinion. I fear if you wait, you will not be accepted anwyere, and you will spend your life saying 'if only....'.
God Bless,
Alicemary
ps, email me anytime if you want to talk further, I do understand what you are going through and have been down a similar path
Yes, it would be wonderful if you helped raise your nephew for six months, which could turn into six years very easily. i am not judging your brother, but this has been going on for some time...why should you put your life on hold? AGAIN.
If you are saying, hey, I would love to live in Singapore, and I would love to be exposed to that culture, what fun, that would be very different.
You might be healthy now, but what if you develop an illness? Do you have a religious community that is interested in taking you? Will they be willing to wait even longer for you? When you do enter a cloister, will you be able to dearly love your family, but leave them?
In six months you will be 55 or almost 55, that is another year older.
This is all very difficult, I know that. And you do want to be there for your family who you do love. But you are running out of time. I say pray very hard, and ask the Lord his opinion. I fear if you wait, you will not be accepted anwyere, and you will spend your life saying 'if only....'.
God Bless,
Alicemary
ps, email me anytime if you want to talk further, I do understand what you are going through and have been down a similar path
Alicemary - you are now echoing all my fears! I nursed my Mom through cancer, then I took care of abused children, then I helped my sister raise her son (she was a single parent), then I helped various siblings through one thing or another over the years, and it has taken me 30 years to get back to my promise to God at my baptism that I would be a nun. The priest even announced to the congregation at my Midnight Mass baptism that I wanted to be a nun! Thirty years later I am still trying to get there! As you said, when does it all end, and when do I take care of me and what I know God wants from me?
I guess I start to doubt my vocation when all these other things happen - sort of like -- well maybe God wants me to do all this to serve others. But isn't serving him the ultimate in charity?
As for Singapore, I have been there, done that. In fact, I have been around the world and lived in many countries. I don't care where I live any more - I just want to be cloistered! I want to belong to God. And I worry about my health breaking down and then I won't be acceptable to any community! I am in excellent health right now and the time has never been better for me to pursue this. How do I say no?? I have never been able to say no to my family -- why does God ask this of me if I have to say no to them?
Anyway, I will talk to Father Paul tomorrow and see what advice he has for me. I told my brother that Iw ant to help him, but that we have to discuss it further -- if only a convent would call me tomorrow and accept me -- then I would have something definite, but right now I am just applying and waiting --- so I don't have any real excuse NOT to help out.
sigh..... is this the devil??? or I am just being tested?
Annie, you will have to talk to your spiritual director who knows you better than we do but my own thought on your situation is that "the poor you will always have with you". If Christ is calling you to the cloister you must entrust all to Him and follow Him.Taking care of your mom is one thing but you are not obliged to be there for all your family members. We are not the ones who keep the universe in existence: God is! Stimom says that she doesn't think you will be at peace behind the cloister walls if you don't help for awhile. In fact, you may have a more powerful effect interceeding for your nephew and helping him than if you went to Singapore yourself. JESUS will not call you to the monastery and leave your loved ones without the help they need.
Over and over again I've seen Sisters who were an only child come to the monastery and later in life the Lord has worked it out in marvelous ways when their parents became old and needed help, etc. The Gospel says that we must leave Mother and Father, brother and sister, homes, lands and families for the sake of the Gospel. This applies to ALL Christians but especially to those who follow Him in religious life.
Trust Him who your heart loves and He will respond to your love in ways you would never dream. His grace is sufficent for you!
I will be praying for you. I know how difficult it is.
In Christ and Mary,
Sr. Mary Catharine
Over and over again I've seen Sisters who were an only child come to the monastery and later in life the Lord has worked it out in marvelous ways when their parents became old and needed help, etc. The Gospel says that we must leave Mother and Father, brother and sister, homes, lands and families for the sake of the Gospel. This applies to ALL Christians but especially to those who follow Him in religious life.
Trust Him who your heart loves and He will respond to your love in ways you would never dream. His grace is sufficent for you!
I will be praying for you. I know how difficult it is.
In Christ and Mary,
Sr. Mary Catharine
I am sorry to learn of the problems you are experiencing at the present time. I fully understand that your predicament. You have been unable to follow your call to religious life for thirty years ,devoting your life to helping others instead.This is probably your last chance to follow God's call and whilst I appreciate you are now being torn between helping your brother and entering the cloister,I think that it is time that you think of yourself and be guided by the Lord's wish. I hope that everything works out well for you and I will pray for this.
Heavenly Father,
You called us to be yours at our baptism.
Indeed, our hearts are restless untlil they rest in you.
Guide Fr. Paul and Annie today in your holy wisdom.
Help them to recognize the path of greatness you have for Annie's life.
We ask this in the name of your Son, Jesus Christ, who lives and reigns with the Spirit.
One God, forever and ever.
Amen.
You called us to be yours at our baptism.
Indeed, our hearts are restless untlil they rest in you.
Guide Fr. Paul and Annie today in your holy wisdom.
Help them to recognize the path of greatness you have for Annie's life.
We ask this in the name of your Son, Jesus Christ, who lives and reigns with the Spirit.
One God, forever and ever.
Amen.
Annie:
I am 100% sympathetic with your situation. I just dealt with my mom's death (where I had just stepped in to help provide care, and she passed away within a few days of doing so). I also have a sister who is now going through a divorce. I'm a bit younger than you though (35).
My mom's side of the family keeps saying the phrase "you've got to help your sister".
In my heart I've made the choice to keep working towards entering with the community that has accepted me, and keep praying that in making that choice, God will provide for the care of my sister and my niece.
My one concern is that your brother needs to figure out a good way of handling the situation, when he becomes a single parent. Your stepping in may just become a permanent relief for him and may only delay his taking action. He could become quite dependent on you for help.
If, for example, you had said that you had been active in caring for your nephew already then that's a whole different situation -- then for his sake I'd say you would need to stay a bit. But that's not the case.
I do wholeheartedly agree with Sr. Mary Catharine's post.
Finally -- my one big advice is prayer. I honestly think the Lord will properly guide you to make the right decision.
Once you know what to do -- then you could offer to help for a shorter term; say if you know that you're entering and actually know of the date (or at least know how far it will be) then you could help take care of your nephew. But even in this case you need to be careful in doing so -- and again pray about it. It could lead to a dependency that you can't get out of.
I will pray for you -- that the Lord will guide you to the right decisions in peace and love.
I am 100% sympathetic with your situation. I just dealt with my mom's death (where I had just stepped in to help provide care, and she passed away within a few days of doing so). I also have a sister who is now going through a divorce. I'm a bit younger than you though (35).
My mom's side of the family keeps saying the phrase "you've got to help your sister".
In my heart I've made the choice to keep working towards entering with the community that has accepted me, and keep praying that in making that choice, God will provide for the care of my sister and my niece.
My one concern is that your brother needs to figure out a good way of handling the situation, when he becomes a single parent. Your stepping in may just become a permanent relief for him and may only delay his taking action. He could become quite dependent on you for help.
If, for example, you had said that you had been active in caring for your nephew already then that's a whole different situation -- then for his sake I'd say you would need to stay a bit. But that's not the case.
I do wholeheartedly agree with Sr. Mary Catharine's post.
Finally -- my one big advice is prayer. I honestly think the Lord will properly guide you to make the right decision.
Once you know what to do -- then you could offer to help for a shorter term; say if you know that you're entering and actually know of the date (or at least know how far it will be) then you could help take care of your nephew. But even in this case you need to be careful in doing so -- and again pray about it. It could lead to a dependency that you can't get out of.
I will pray for you -- that the Lord will guide you to the right decisions in peace and love.
Amen to Sr. Mary Catharine and cmariadiaz, who I believe is entering soon.
In addition to talking to your director, and prayer, you should discuss the entire situation with the mother superiors or novice directors at the various Carmels who respond to you from the Carmels.
In about 7-10 days, you be receiving responses from the 50 Carmels you wrote to, and the nature and number of those responses should help guide you. I don't think that it is going to be possible to discern and pursue you vocation actively from Singapore or anywhere else while taking care of your brother's family. It seems that your family has been dependent on you for a number of years and there is no reason to think that this is not going to continue. I suspect that the superiors and novice directors at these Carmels, and many other religious communities, are familiar with inquirers with family histories such as yours.
If you are able to pursue communities interested in you, it is going to mean a lot of traveling, visiting and talking to superiors and members of those communities, live-ins for a month or longer--in addition to reading and prayer. And in order to enter, as you know, you have to take a battery of tests, get your documents in order and make arrangements for your job, apartment and belongings. All of this takes a lot of time, which you don't really have.
Good luck and keep the Phorum posted! You will find a lot of support here.
In addition to talking to your director, and prayer, you should discuss the entire situation with the mother superiors or novice directors at the various Carmels who respond to you from the Carmels.
In about 7-10 days, you be receiving responses from the 50 Carmels you wrote to, and the nature and number of those responses should help guide you. I don't think that it is going to be possible to discern and pursue you vocation actively from Singapore or anywhere else while taking care of your brother's family. It seems that your family has been dependent on you for a number of years and there is no reason to think that this is not going to continue. I suspect that the superiors and novice directors at these Carmels, and many other religious communities, are familiar with inquirers with family histories such as yours.
If you are able to pursue communities interested in you, it is going to mean a lot of traveling, visiting and talking to superiors and members of those communities, live-ins for a month or longer--in addition to reading and prayer. And in order to enter, as you know, you have to take a battery of tests, get your documents in order and make arrangements for your job, apartment and belongings. All of this takes a lot of time, which you don't really have.
Good luck and keep the Phorum posted! You will find a lot of support here.
Sr. Mary Catharine is absolutely right. I have learned that the Lord's Call and one's desire are not separate. When He calls, GO!!!
Prayers,
Piamaria
Prayers,
Piamaria
QUOTE(jkaands @ Mar 1 2007, 04:18 PM) [snapback]1206485[/snapback]
Amen to Sr. Mary Catharine and cmariadiaz, who I believe is entering soon.
In addition to talking to your director, and prayer, you should discuss the entire situation with the mother superiors or novice directors at the various Carmels who respond to you from the Carmels.
In about 7-10 days, you be receiving responses from the 50 Carmels you wrote to, and the nature and number of those responses should help guide you. I don't think that it is going to be possible to discern and pursue you vocation actively from Singapore or anywhere else while taking care of your brother's family. It seems that your family has been dependent on you for a number of years and there is no reason to think that this is not going to continue. I suspect that the superiors and novice directors at these Carmels, and many other religious communities, are familiar with inquirers with family histories such as yours.
If you are able to pursue communities interested in you, it is going to mean a lot of traveling, visiting and talking to superiors and members of those communities, live-ins for a month or longer--in addition to reading and prayer. And in order to enter, as you know, you have to take a battery of tests, get your documents in order and make arrangements for your job, apartment and belongings. All of this takes a lot of time, which you don't really have.
Good luck and keep the Phorum posted! You will find a lot of support here.
In addition to talking to your director, and prayer, you should discuss the entire situation with the mother superiors or novice directors at the various Carmels who respond to you from the Carmels.
In about 7-10 days, you be receiving responses from the 50 Carmels you wrote to, and the nature and number of those responses should help guide you. I don't think that it is going to be possible to discern and pursue you vocation actively from Singapore or anywhere else while taking care of your brother's family. It seems that your family has been dependent on you for a number of years and there is no reason to think that this is not going to continue. I suspect that the superiors and novice directors at these Carmels, and many other religious communities, are familiar with inquirers with family histories such as yours.
If you are able to pursue communities interested in you, it is going to mean a lot of traveling, visiting and talking to superiors and members of those communities, live-ins for a month or longer--in addition to reading and prayer. And in order to enter, as you know, you have to take a battery of tests, get your documents in order and make arrangements for your job, apartment and belongings. All of this takes a lot of time, which you don't really have.
Good luck and keep the Phorum posted! You will find a lot of support here.
First, thank you to everyone who has posted or PMed me - the support has been wonderful and encouraging. I am not making any final decision until I speak with my brother on the phone this weekend. Several suggestions have been made as to how this might work for both of us, and I want to investigate some of these ideas with my brother.
As for "In about 7-10 days, you be receiving responses from the 50 Carmels you wrote to...", tonight I actually had two phone calls from these 50 Carmels, both totally traditional 1990s constitution and both wanting to meet me! One was in Colorado (10 nuns, 1 novice, no Internet, no email) and Mobile, Alabama (only 4 elderly nuns left there plus 2 labrador puppies - lol!). I also got a second phone call from the Seattle Carmel, whose Chapter house voted last night to allow me to condense their usual 5 visits into 2! I told them about the Singapore dilemma and the Mother Prioress told me to work that out and to stay in touch with them by phone. She said that they would still like me to visit. They are not as traditional (and wear the modified veil) but they certainly do sound sweet and welcoming.
I would like to request your prayers for all of these convents, especially the one in Mobile since it has so few nuns and really needs vocations! Neither the Colorado nor the Mobile one allow live-in visits The one in Mobile told me, a visitor gets treated differently than a nun in formation does, so a live-in visit doesn't really show what the life is really like. It is better for someone to enter, be a postulant and then decide if it is for them. This is the same attitude that the Wolverhampton convent has, and I like it. Short visits are allowed at both, but I do think that it is hard to know the community life if one is not living it with them and going through the formation process. The convent in Seattle wanted 6 visits, with the final one being a live-in of 3 months! They have condensed this to 2 visits for me, but I still think it is a lot of "pretending" before actually getting to find out what the life is really like. But those of you who have made live-in visits might have a different perspective than I do, so feel free to disagree with me, please.
Anyway, I will update the phorum after I have spoken with my brother this weekend. The replies from Carmels are very promising, so if this other family problem can be worked out with benefit to all of us, then perhaps this will be a sort of "help out and then goodbye" to the family - in a nice way.
Thank all of you - so much.
Annie
QUOTE(jkaands @ Mar 1 2007, 04:18 PM) [snapback]1206485[/snapback]
Amen to Sr. Mary Catharine and cmariadiaz, who I believe is entering soon.
In addition to talking to your director, and prayer, you should discuss the entire situation with the mother superiors or novice directors at the various Carmels who respond to you from the Carmels.
In about 7-10 days, you be receiving responses from the 50 Carmels you wrote to, and the nature and number of those responses should help guide you. I don't think that it is going to be possible to discern and pursue you vocation actively from Singapore or anywhere else while taking care of your brother's family. It seems that your family has been dependent on you for a number of years and there is no reason to think that this is not going to continue. I suspect that the superiors and novice directors at these Carmels, and many other religious communities, are familiar with inquirers with family histories such as yours.
If you are able to pursue communities interested in you, it is going to mean a lot of traveling, visiting and talking to superiors and members of those communities, live-ins for a month or longer--in addition to reading and prayer. And in order to enter, as you know, you have to take a battery of tests, get your documents in order and make arrangements for your job, apartment and belongings. All of this takes a lot of time, which you don't really have.
Good luck and keep the Phorum posted! You will find a lot of support here.
In addition to talking to your director, and prayer, you should discuss the entire situation with the mother superiors or novice directors at the various Carmels who respond to you from the Carmels.
In about 7-10 days, you be receiving responses from the 50 Carmels you wrote to, and the nature and number of those responses should help guide you. I don't think that it is going to be possible to discern and pursue you vocation actively from Singapore or anywhere else while taking care of your brother's family. It seems that your family has been dependent on you for a number of years and there is no reason to think that this is not going to continue. I suspect that the superiors and novice directors at these Carmels, and many other religious communities, are familiar with inquirers with family histories such as yours.
If you are able to pursue communities interested in you, it is going to mean a lot of traveling, visiting and talking to superiors and members of those communities, live-ins for a month or longer--in addition to reading and prayer. And in order to enter, as you know, you have to take a battery of tests, get your documents in order and make arrangements for your job, apartment and belongings. All of this takes a lot of time, which you don't really have.
Good luck and keep the Phorum posted! You will find a lot of support here.
First, thank you to everyone who has posted or PMed me - the support has been wonderful and encouraging. I am not making any final decision until I speak with my brother on the phone this weekend. Several suggestions have been made as to how this might work for both of us, and I want to investigate some of these ideas with my brother.
As for "In about 7-10 days, you be receiving responses from the 50 Carmels you wrote to...", tonight I actually had two phone calls from these 50 Carmels, both totally traditional 1990s constitution and both wanting to meet me! One was in Colorado (10 nuns, 1 novice, no Internet, no email) and Mobile, Alabama (only 4 elderly nuns left there plus 2 labrador puppies - lol!). I also got a second phone call from the Seattle Carmel, whose Chapter house voted last night to allow me to condense their usual 5 visits into 2! I told them about the Singapore dilemma and the Mother Prioress told me to work that out and to stay in touch with them by phone. She said that they would still like me to visit. They are not as traditional (and wear the modified veil) but they certainly do sound sweet and welcoming.
I would like to request your prayers for all of these convents, especially the one in Mobile since it has so few nuns and really needs vocations! Neither the Colorado nor the Mobile one allow live-in visits The one in Mobile told me, a visitor gets treated differently than a nun in formation does, so a live-in visit doesn't really show what the life is really like. It is better for someone to enter, be a postulant and then decide if it is for them. This is the same attitude that the Wolverhampton convent has, and I like it. Short visits are allowed at both, but I do think that it is hard to know the community life if one is not living it with them and going through the formation process. The convent in Seattle wanted 6 visits, with the final one being a live-in of 3 months! They have condensed this to 2 visits for me, but I still think it is a lot of "pretending" before actually getting to find out what the life is really like. But those of you who have made live-in visits might have a different perspective than I do, so feel free to disagree with me, please.
Anyway, I will update the phorum after I have spoken with my brother this weekend. The replies from Carmels are very promising, so if this other family problem can be worked out with benefit to all of us, then perhaps this will be a sort of "help out and then goodbye" to the family - in a nice way.
Thank all of you - so much.
Annie
Annie,
You know me, I will speak as I see things. Live ins are extremely important. You just can't tell alot about an order by just visiting them casually. You need to sleep there, wake up there, see what the nuns are really like 'behind closed doors'. I know that I have visited convents and thought the sisters are wonderful. We exchanged letters and it was just great. And then you spend a weekend or a week, and the cracks begin to widen.
I think it would be very, very hard to enter a community that only has a small number of older sisters. A person may want to help out, but you are talking about your life here. And your future.
As to entering as a postulant, without a live in, with the idea that it is a better way to do things. Well, that sounds good, but it is not practical. When one enters as a postulant, you hope to stay forever. You go in with the idea you will stay. You give away possesions, sell cars, apartments and homes. You burn your bridges. This is surely the way it has been done for generations, but is it the best way? I dont think so. Even jobs have shadowing...you observe for a day or so to get a better feel. I do notfeel it is pretending, I think it will be what you need it to be. And why not do a three month aspirancy? You are willing to go to Singapore for six months.
Please, I do not want to sound critical, but slow this down a bit!!! Do not run into the first cloister that contacts you because they show an interest. Each cloister is very, very different. Each community lives the life differently. A moderate community may live the life beautifully, even with a modified habit. Be open. The Lord knows where he wants you, but there are always roadblocks, as you well know.
I send my deepest regards to you, and all my prayers.
Alicemary
You know me, I will speak as I see things. Live ins are extremely important. You just can't tell alot about an order by just visiting them casually. You need to sleep there, wake up there, see what the nuns are really like 'behind closed doors'. I know that I have visited convents and thought the sisters are wonderful. We exchanged letters and it was just great. And then you spend a weekend or a week, and the cracks begin to widen.
I think it would be very, very hard to enter a community that only has a small number of older sisters. A person may want to help out, but you are talking about your life here. And your future.
As to entering as a postulant, without a live in, with the idea that it is a better way to do things. Well, that sounds good, but it is not practical. When one enters as a postulant, you hope to stay forever. You go in with the idea you will stay. You give away possesions, sell cars, apartments and homes. You burn your bridges. This is surely the way it has been done for generations, but is it the best way? I dont think so. Even jobs have shadowing...you observe for a day or so to get a better feel. I do notfeel it is pretending, I think it will be what you need it to be. And why not do a three month aspirancy? You are willing to go to Singapore for six months.
Please, I do not want to sound critical, but slow this down a bit!!! Do not run into the first cloister that contacts you because they show an interest. Each cloister is very, very different. Each community lives the life differently. A moderate community may live the life beautifully, even with a modified habit. Be open. The Lord knows where he wants you, but there are always roadblocks, as you well know.
I send my deepest regards to you, and all my prayers.
Alicemary
Hi Annie:
In a way I do agree with Alicemary ... I'm not sure what the length of the visits are, but I do strongly suggest allowing at least two weeks for at least one of the visits, and a second visit should be at least a week long (hopefully longer).
You start to see the "cracks" after a week; the sisters start to let their guard down because (hopefully) you start to be one of them [in a sense].
Granted I do agree with one of your statements too -- you really won't know until you enter for real (as I've experienced). The sisters will keep certain things from you until that point. *BUT* I think its important to have the "live-in" type of experiences too.
Finally -- I'd make a distinction between a live-in requirement of a few weeks to a month, and a 3-month live-in. A 3 month live-in is more like an aspirancy ... and there is a good reason for it. You do get a clearer idea of what religious life is like in that time frame (in that community), but without the expectations of a postulant.
I did do a one month live in with a community early on in my discernment -- and that was enough to decide that the community was not the right fit for me.
God bless you as you continue to discern God's will in your life.
In a way I do agree with Alicemary ... I'm not sure what the length of the visits are, but I do strongly suggest allowing at least two weeks for at least one of the visits, and a second visit should be at least a week long (hopefully longer).
You start to see the "cracks" after a week; the sisters start to let their guard down because (hopefully) you start to be one of them [in a sense].
Granted I do agree with one of your statements too -- you really won't know until you enter for real (as I've experienced). The sisters will keep certain things from you until that point. *BUT* I think its important to have the "live-in" type of experiences too.
Finally -- I'd make a distinction between a live-in requirement of a few weeks to a month, and a 3-month live-in. A 3 month live-in is more like an aspirancy ... and there is a good reason for it. You do get a clearer idea of what religious life is like in that time frame (in that community), but without the expectations of a postulant.
I did do a one month live in with a community early on in my discernment -- and that was enough to decide that the community was not the right fit for me.
God bless you as you continue to discern God's will in your life.
It sounds like God might be calling you to help with your nephew (maybe even homeschooling him in Singapore 
). But it also sounds like your desire to enter a convent sooner than later may be God's will. Not to be overly blunt, but I would say that asking Phatmass is probably not the best idea. Sometimes it happens that people want opinions on these kinds of things when opinions from random people who are discerning is probably not what you really need; it can potential confuse your situation more. Talk this over with your current spiritual director and possibly the vocations directress at one or several of the Carmels you are looking at. I say this for several reasons; first, your s.d. knows you and will be better able to discern God's will for you, and you can both pray about it. Secondly, talk to the vocations directress(es) because they will be able to tell you what the opinion of Carmel is on this type of situation. They may think "the sooner the better" for you to enter since you are already 54, but they may on the other hand think it is a good idea for you to help your brother out.
). But it also sounds like your desire to enter a convent sooner than later may be God's will. Not to be overly blunt, but I would say that asking Phatmass is probably not the best idea. Sometimes it happens that people want opinions on these kinds of things when opinions from random people who are discerning is probably not what you really need; it can potential confuse your situation more. Talk this over with your current spiritual director and possibly the vocations directress at one or several of the Carmels you are looking at. I say this for several reasons; first, your s.d. knows you and will be better able to discern God's will for you, and you can both pray about it. Secondly, talk to the vocations directress(es) because they will be able to tell you what the opinion of Carmel is on this type of situation. They may think "the sooner the better" for you to enter since you are already 54, but they may on the other hand think it is a good idea for you to help your brother out.
QUOTE(alicemary @ Mar 3 2007, 11:29 AM) [snapback]1207260[/snapback]
Annie,
You know me, I will speak as I see things. Live ins are extremely important. You just can't tell alot about an order by just visiting them casually. You need to sleep there, wake up there, see what the nuns are really like 'behind closed doors'. I know that I have visited convents and thought the sisters are wonderful. We exchanged letters and it was just great. And then you spend a weekend or a week, and the cracks begin to widen.
I think it would be very, very hard to enter a community that only has a small number of older sisters. A person may want to help out, but you are talking about your life here. And your future.
As to entering as a postulant, without a live in, with the idea that it is a better way to do things. Well, that sounds good, but it is not practical. When one enters as a postulant, you hope to stay forever. You go in with the idea you will stay. You give away possesions, sell cars, apartments and homes. You burn your bridges. This is surely the way it has been done for generations, but is it the best way? I dont think so. Even jobs have shadowing...you observe for a day or so to get a better feel. I do notfeel it is pretending, I think it will be what you need it to be. And why not do a three month aspirancy? You are willing to go to Singapore for six months.
Please, I do not want to sound critical, but slow this down a bit!!! Do not run into the first cloister that contacts you because they show an interest. Each cloister is very, very different. Each community lives the life differently. A moderate community may live the life beautifully, even with a modified habit. Be open. The Lord knows where he wants you, but there are always roadblocks, as you well know.
I send my deepest regards to you, and all my prayers.
Alicemary
You know me, I will speak as I see things. Live ins are extremely important. You just can't tell alot about an order by just visiting them casually. You need to sleep there, wake up there, see what the nuns are really like 'behind closed doors'. I know that I have visited convents and thought the sisters are wonderful. We exchanged letters and it was just great. And then you spend a weekend or a week, and the cracks begin to widen.
I think it would be very, very hard to enter a community that only has a small number of older sisters. A person may want to help out, but you are talking about your life here. And your future.
As to entering as a postulant, without a live in, with the idea that it is a better way to do things. Well, that sounds good, but it is not practical. When one enters as a postulant, you hope to stay forever. You go in with the idea you will stay. You give away possesions, sell cars, apartments and homes. You burn your bridges. This is surely the way it has been done for generations, but is it the best way? I dont think so. Even jobs have shadowing...you observe for a day or so to get a better feel. I do notfeel it is pretending, I think it will be what you need it to be. And why not do a three month aspirancy? You are willing to go to Singapore for six months.
Please, I do not want to sound critical, but slow this down a bit!!! Do not run into the first cloister that contacts you because they show an interest. Each cloister is very, very different. Each community lives the life differently. A moderate community may live the life beautifully, even with a modified habit. Be open. The Lord knows where he wants you, but there are always roadblocks, as you well know.
I send my deepest regards to you, and all my prayers.
Alicemary
As this may be true for some people, many cloistered monasteries do not have a live-in experience and the people who enter are just fine with adjusting to things. You don't always have to live there first temporarily to know that you are called to live there permanently.
And keep in mind, postulancy is a six month- one year "live-in" time, with no strings attached. You say "the cracks begin to widen"; this could be another way of saying that you can see that the sisters have faults! And there will be suffering in the religious life! That is true in any religious community. You will see that sooner or later whether or not it is before or after you enter
Definitely, live-ins can be a great thing and are often required by a community before postulancy. But they are definitely not the most practical thing for some communities and aren't always necessary for discovering where you are truly called
God bless!
QUOTE(Totus Tuus @ Mar 3 2007, 04:03 PM) [snapback]1207388[/snapback]
As this may be true for some people, many cloistered monasteries do not have a live-in experience and the people who enter are just fine with adjusting to things. You don't always have to live there first temporarily to know that you are called to live there permanently. And keep in mind, postulancy is a six month- one year "live-in" time, with no strings attached.
You say "the cracks begin to widen"; this could be another way of saying that you can see that the sisters have faults! And there will be suffering in the religious life! That is true in any religious community. You will see that sooner or later whether or not it is before or after you enter
Definitely, live-ins can be a great thing and are often required by a community before postulancy. But they are definitely not the most practical thing for some communities and aren't always necessary for discovering where you are truly called
God bless!
And keep in mind, postulancy is a six month- one year "live-in" time, with no strings attached. You say "the cracks begin to widen"; this could be another way of saying that you can see that the sisters have faults! And there will be suffering in the religious life! That is true in any religious community. You will see that sooner or later whether or not it is before or after you enter
Definitely, live-ins can be a great thing and are often required by a community before postulancy. But they are definitely not the most practical thing for some communities and aren't always necessary for discovering where you are truly called
God bless!
Once again, thank you all for your opinions. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me because I always like to learn from others and this can only be done through open discussion.
While I understand that a visit is important, I will just explain what the Mother Prioress from Colorado said to me about why they don't do live-in visits. She said that when someone is visiting, all the nuns are super sweet to them because they are a visitor and that is charity and hospitality for a visitor. But a postulant will be treated differently, as part of their formation. Sometimes this might not seem as nice or sweet, but it is necessary for formation. So someone who lived in as a visitor might be very surprised once they actually entered as a postulant to find out that the previously "sweet" nuns didn't now seem quite so sweet. I can understand this because surrendering one's will to that of a superior, and to learn humility, sometimes it hurts and seems harsh. A visitor is not going to be treated this way, but a postulant will.
Anyway, the other objections that people have to entering directly do not really apply to me. I gave up everything years ago in order to be free to do this. I have no possessions apart from an older car that I will give away when I enter. My brother has already taken all of my personal things like photo albums, documents etc for storage. I own very few clothes (one suitcase) and my job is not a career (caregiver). I rent a room, not an apartment. I gave up my career two years ago and took a job as a caregiver just so I would be free to enter a convent when ready. If, for some reason, I have to leave the convent, then I can always work as a caregiver again - nursing homes as desperate for caregivers everywhere. I have enough money to give any convent a dowry, which will be returned to me if I leave.
My spiritual director thinks I have the spiritual maturity to make this decision on my own. I have suggested possible scenarios, and they seem to be positive, so now all I need to do is speak with my brother about his support for my visiting convents even while helping him.
Also, I am not going to leap into the first community that wants me -- I had another phone call today from a Carmel that is only about four hours drive from me!! They have an upper age limit, but want to meet with me anyway, and to judge me as an individual. God has been showering me with acceptance at every turn and this had made me realize that He wants me - but perhaps I need to do this for him first. My brother is a converted Catholic and during this time, he is going to need my spiritual support as well as physical. If I can help him to attend Mass during this time, and to lean on God, then I will feel that I have served both him and God too!
Although I prefer the traditional habit, this will not be a deciding factor for me, unless two communities are both totally equal in my eyes - and then it might matter. What I am really hoping for is to find a place that feels like my spiritual home. In any community there will be nuns who irritate each other and get on each other's nerves. This is part of surrender and humility. But I will not go looking for tests and trials - I am not that strong! lol
I have so much admiration and respect for every community that has contacted me, and for the nuns who silently live their lives of prayer. Today at confession my penance was to offer my next communion for peace in the Middle East. At Mass tonight it felt so good to do this, and it reaffirmed for me how much I love praying for others. I am looking forward to a life of prayer with all my heart. But if I have to wait just a little for God to put me in the right place, that's ok -- He has waited all these years for me to say "yes" to Him!
Anyway, thank you all so much for just listening. Each of us is trying to discern God's Will for us, and just being there, for love and support, is a blessing from God.
Deo gratias.
Annie
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.