Hi, all!

I've been wondering about something for a while. Why do some religious communities (cloistered and active) engage in the media? Some religious houses watch the nightly news or surf the internet, still others even watch the latest movies! Now, if there is a religious on this forum whose community does allow them to do the things I mentioned, please don't take offense at what I'm writing because I just don't understand and need clarification.

I'm particularly disturbed by cloistered nuns who go online, watch movies, and view television. I found a link on Phatmass to an NBC segment on the PCPAs in Arizona, and it said that they watch the latest movies and sports (which are inundated with suggestive commercials). I also know of another Poor Clare monastic community in Washington that watches Oprah occasionally and even looks at YouTube!! How can these sisters keep their minds clean and pure when they're sullying them with the media?

Would anyone be able to explain the reasons behind all of this? Thanks!

God bless,

Margaret

Margaret, I don't know why religious watch the latest movies and sports. The PCPA's? I wonder if that is really true.

Religioius (both active and cloistered) are suppose to have some knowledge of what is going on in the world. We don't live isolated in our own little world but are part of this world. By being appropriately informed we can better understand and pray for the needs of the world and better able to help those who may call us or come to our parlor for help. Also, there are some huge issues out there that we need to have an intelligent understanding about. We vote, too and must make informed decisions.

There is nothing wrong per se about going online. It's what we do with it that could be a distraction for us. As vocation directress I participate in this forum mainly because it has helped me understand where today's young people are in regard to religious vocations. There's been quite a cultural shift since when I entered 16 years ago.

I will also go online to search out catechetical and theological materials! Horray for www.op.org/summa! I have found the internet very helpful in searching out articles and even online books on specific theological topics. For the past few weeks I've been working on the Dominican Sources class for the novitiate and was able to find some of the books I needed online or some articles that I didn't even know existed. It was a lot of work but well worth it! There is a site that has all the works of St. Augustine in Latin and when I'm curious about a certain passage in the Office I go there to see what the orginal Latin is.

One of our Sisters has been doing some genealogical (sp!) research on our foundresses and was able to find some things that the family of our foundress didn't know.

Or we might use it to do necessary shopping which is a lot less distracting and a lot less confusing than having one of our friends go out and purchase what we ask them to. Often, they buy something much more expensive than what we would and then we have to ask them to return it, etc. Now, we never go out for shoes but by them from zappos! Or even ebay! One of the sisters who wears 2 different sizes was able to buy some sandals cheap because someone was selling exactly her 2 different sizes! We order books online and often are able to get some at cheaper prices by using addall.com. Books are very important to us!

We only watch movies that are clean and wholesome so most of the time they are old movies. We only do it about once a month or so but not during Advent or Lent. Sometimes we tape something off of EWTN.

The only time I've gone on youtube was because our friars has posted one of their theological lectures on Youtube and it was the only way we could see it. We thought we could download it but we couldn't.

Oh, that's another thing. One of our sisters downloads series from ETWN or lectures from our friars and records them on CD for us to listen to in the refectory.
Some of our garden sisters go online when they are looking for some help because of a problem.

Does that help at all, Margaret? I certainly can't imagine why religious would watch Oprah! I hate it when I'm stuck in a drs office waiting room and they have her on! UGH!

God bless you!
Sr. Mary Catharine

Hi margaret,

I belong to an active community and some of our sisters do watch TV and go to the movies. It's all in moderation (it's been quite a while since I've been to the movies). Sure, there are shows/movies out there that are awful but look at the good: Mother Angelica was the foundress of EWTN and look at the good it has done. The Daughters of St. Paul - they have media as their ministry.

sr betsy

Sisters, thanks for your replies--among the religious I know, nobody has much time to veg out in front of the TV or internet--they have way too much to do.
Margaret, maybe you could substantiate what you mentioned in your first post by giving some links to your information?

The Canons Regular of the New Jerusalem do not allow television.

But religious communities are supposed to have some knowledge of what's going on in the world and can use the media, such as the internet, for their ministry.

The canons have a radio, and have one computer with internet access to be used with permission in the superior's office. They are also known to read the newspaper and go to a movie occasionally, and if there was some major event like a Mars landing, I'm sure they'd either be invited to someone's house, or watch it streaming on the internet.

Watching the things you mentioned is not in accordance with "Verbi Sponsa" for contemplative womens' communities. Yes, the Phoenix PCPAs do watch the latest movies and such. I am not sure why they do (I have wondered myself) but at the moment they are not Papal Enclosed nuns so perhaps the rules do not apply as strictly to them right now. I will testify personally that those forms of media are not conducive to contemplative religious life, and only serve to distract and cause confusion and discord in the soul of a woman who is trying to unite herself to Jesus in that manner of life, most especially in the early stages. Verbi Sponsa very clearly lays out what forms of media are acceptable, and to what degree a contemplative nun may engage in them. It is very helpful to read it if you have any questions as to what the guidelines are.

Hi,

Thanks so much for the info! I couldn't agree with you more! Who wrote Verbi Sponsi, and do you know where I can find it? Perhaps EWTN has it in their documents library?

Btw, here is a quote from Santa Teresa d'Avila:

"Let them beware, for the devil through very small things, drills holes through which very large things enter. May it not happen that those who are to come say: 'These things are not important; don't go to extremes.'" Foundations, ch. 29, 32

I realize that Santa Teresa was speaking to her Carmelites, but I think this applies to all orders, active and contemplative. Father Benedict Groeschel, CFR (who, of course, is not cloistered) doesn't go to movies (unless it's a religious film such as The Passion of the Christor The Nativity Story), watch the news, listen to the news on the radio, or use the Internet. He stays very well-informed due to his reading of periodicals such as The New York Times. I definitely think that contemplatives should be more careful than the active communities, and shoudn't even be reading the newspaper, which also has inappropriate material in it. A good priest, friar, or layman can inform them of what world news they should add to their prayers.

The Internet is a very good way of attracting new vocations, and I think that every religious community should consider having a website. It should be updated (new photographs, etc.) and maintained by the laity without the nuns, sisters, friars, monks, or brothers ever going online. I'm sure that, in an entire diocese, there would be someone willing to grant this service to the local religious house. I really don't think it's good to go online if you're a religious or priest because there are too many temptations therein. Even if one goes to a benign website, there might be an enticing link that would cause a near occasion of sin.

Here is an example of an innocent-sounding webname being bad. I was looking for the old 1950s Disney Cinderella, and went to [mod]URL edited. --Era Might[/mod]. Imagine my surprise and disgust to find that it was a porn site! Our celibate priests and religious have enough trouble staying chaste without having that type of exposure. Just because the Internet, movies, television, and radio are available doesn't mean that we should utilize them, especially if they have the potential to damage our souls. I realize that the Internet is very convenient for cloistered religious, but there are other ways of obtaining information and products than from the Internet. Part of religious life is sacrifice and austerity---poverty.

I hope this didn't offend anyone. Thanks to all who posted for giving their side of things!

God bless you!

Pax Christi,

Margaret

Hi Margaret,

I understand your concerns, and in my community our use of the media is directly linked with our Youth Apostolate. Don Bosco, our founder, was always on top of using the latest mediums of communication to spread the Gospel. As a result of this we are trying to build a strong web presence. We do go to movies with our kids (after carefully selecting something appropriate, but it is not often), we watch the news to stay on top of what is happening in the world (it has a huge impact on what is going on in the lives of the young people around us), we read newspapers when we have the time (there is no such thing as a good, agenda free, daily newspaper, dear... you kind of have to "pray-as-you-go" through it), and we have posted videos to youtube. Sometimes our kids want to show us something. It can make for a great teachable moment. We have to be discerning about what we consume from the media, but to cut ourselves off from it completely would be to deny a large part of our vocation as Salesian Sisters --- to meet young people and youth culture where they are at and bring the message of Christ to it.




The New York times is not without biases... but I think that the point is that each religious community has a different spirituality and charism and discerns the movement of the Spirit for them. We should not be so quick to hold one community up as being the standard that all other communities should follow. We have to understand that for some communities the watching of the news or going to the movies can be a significant part of their vocation (Daughters of Saint Paul are an excellent example and they have a media apostolate). The CFRs have a very ascetical kind of life. The Carmelites are communal hermits. It is not fair to compare apples to carrots and then say that apples are better because they are more red. Please be careful when making judgments such as that because you will run into a lot of logical flaws that way.

If there are too many temptations for religious who live in a community and have a strong prayer life then I think it would be MORE dangerous for lay people to go on the internet. If a religious does not possess the discerning maturity to be able to go on the internet and maintain their own webpage and take care of the email, then I would really wonder what they are doing in Religious Life. What are they running from? What issue/sin have they not dealt with in their life and why are they not open with their community about it? Some communities may choose to designate one person to do this, some may feel that allowing all of their members to email is perfectly fine. Each community is different, but I do not think that just because there are bad things on the internet that one should completely throw it out. It can be a powerful medium for bringing Christ to others. What about shopping malls? Are we never to use them? There are some bad stores in malls. If you continue this line of logic you will eventually never leave your house for fear of coming across evil... hopefully eventually realizing that the seed of sin lies within our own hearts and that if we allow God to heal us and sanctify us He will protect our actions and guide us... and if we should come across something evil, He will give us the grade to turn from it.




My dear, I think that although you grasp well the evils on the internet you really should look at what is good out there. Ever seen the adoration webpage? It is a beautiful webpage. PhatMass is another example of something good out there. If the internet is a source of sin for someone, of course they should limit it in their lives --- the same for movies and newspapers, and so on... but in general most people will be able to remain faithful to the Lord if they have a strong prayer life and are discerning about where they go and what they do. You probably do more damage to yourself by getting very upset when you come across a bad site (by accident), rather than simply changing the page and peacefully offering God a prayer for those people who made it.

Yes, the internet is convenient for cloistered religious, so they should use it if their community feels the need. Have you ever looked through some of the catalogs that convents end up on the mailings lists for? Some of those can have some pretty evil things concealed within! There is the taint of sin everywhere, but "where sin abounds grace abounds all the more" Romans 5:20.

So be at peace.

God bless,
Sr Colleen

Thank you, Sr. Colleen. You said just about everything I was going to say.

No problem, Sister!

Sisters, You have done an excellent job answering this question! I don't think I have anything else to add! My sisters are allowed to watch television and go to the movies, but again, we are to do so in moderation. Our Rule states very clearly that it is part of our vow of chastity to "safe-guard" ourselves from things that can distract us in our work and our commitment to God. Being careful of the media that we partake in is part of that!

But I agree, there are many good forms of media that can be utilized in order to evangelize. As the other sisters noted, people are turning to the internet, tv, and other forms of media to find additional spiritual nourishment. But again, all things in moderation, all things rooted in the ONE!


Sister Jacqulyn

Absolutely agree (as I sit here finishing my homework!!). Sr. Colleen - you did a wonderful job.

stlmom - you are right - there is not much time to veg out in front of the tv - which is a treat

sr betsy

Verbi sponsa is a Vatican document and can be seen here.

Thanks so much!

God bless,

Margaret

+

Addressee:

CONGREGATION FOR INSTITUTES OF CONSECRATED LIFE
AND FOR SOCIETIES OF APOSTOLIC LIFE

VERBI SPONSA
Instruction on the Contemplative Life
and on the Enclosure of Nuns

This seems to be the pertinent section:

The means of social communications

20. Rules regarding the means of social communications in all their present-day forms are aimed at safeguarding the spirit of recollection; contemplative silence can in fact be undermined when noise, news and talk fill the enclosure.

The communications media should be used with moderation and discretion, (71) not only with regard to the content but also the amount and the medium itself. It should be remembered that, inasmuch as contemplatives are accustomed to interior silence, the media have a more powerful impact on their sensitivity and emotions, making recollection more difficult.

The use of radio and television can be permitted on particular occasions of a religious character.

With prudent discernment and for everyone's benefit, in accordance with the decisions of the conventual Chapter, the use of other modern means of communication, such as fax machines, cellular telephones or the Internet, may be permitted in the monastery, for the exchange of information or for reasons of work.

Nuns should make efforts to be duly informed about the Church and the world, not through the great volume of news, but by wise discernment of what is essential in the light of God, in order to make this a part of their prayer, in union with the heart of Christ.


Authority:

CONCLUSION

31. The intention of this Instruction is to confirm the Church's high esteem for the wholly contemplative life of cloistered nuns, and to reaffirm her concern to safeguard its authentic nature, “that this world may never be without a ray of divine beauty to lighten the path of human existence”. (94)

May the Holy Father Pope John Paul II's words of blessing be of support and encouragement to all cloistered contemplatives: “As the Apostles, gathered in prayer with Mary and the other women in the Upper Room, were filled with the Holy Spirit (cf. Acts 1:14), so the community of the faithful hopes today to be able to experience, thanks also to your prayer, a renewed Pentecost for a more effective Gospel testimony on the threshold of the Third Millennium. Dear Sisters, I entrust to Mary, faithful Virgin and House consecrated to God, your Communities and each one of you. May the Mother of the Lord grant that from your monasteries a ray of that light which enveloped the world when the Word was made flesh and came to live among us should shine forth again!”. (95)

On 1 May 1999, the Holy Father approved this present document of the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, and authorized its publication.

From the Vatican, 13 May 1999, the Solemnity of the Ascension of the Lord.

Eduardo Card. Martínez Somalo
Prefect

Piergiorgio Silvano Nesti
Secretary

Hi, Totus Tuus,

I'm so glad that this document exists to give guidelines to contemplative nuns---too bad they don't all follow it. It's wonderful for the cloistered to (on occasion) be allowed to watch the Pope, or some other religious moment on TV or listen to it on the radio. As it advises in the document, only when the television and radio programs are of a religious nature should they be turned on by the nuns---and not too often, either. It certainly doesn't say anything about using the radio and television for news updates....

Thanks, Veritas, for posting the relevent segments of the article---boy, was that document long! God bless!


Pax et bonum,

Margaret

It is remarkably easy to be opinionated about someone else's life when you have not lived it nor have you participated in the community decision making.

I do not like the know-it-all tone of this topic at all.

If you read the segment of Verbi Sponsa posted by Veritas, you might notice that we have been observing the facts, not opining.

If you are referring to comments such as, "too bad they don't all follow it", I wouldn't call that know-it-all. The decision-making process of a community is a process by which the community has a certain amount of authority to live according to Church teaching. And their obedience will give them great joy. So, there's a difference between making observations and making know-it-all opinions.

I have lived the life you mentioned, as have other women on this thread who are sisters. They have made great observations, wouldn't you agree?



I was with the PCPA's when Pope Benedict was elected and it was a wonderful experience to share with the community. It was a means of social communication which brought the community together as a group, and also united the community as a member of Christ's Body with the entire Church. So yes, the media is in no way bad. It can be a great means of growth in holiness and unity for communities and individuals. The contemplative heart of a cloistered nun needs silence and solitude to live her mission in the Church. So it follows, logically, that the media should be used infrequently, just as Verbi Sponsa says.

As for news updates, that is left to the discernment of the communities. News should not provide too much distraction or noise, and should be integrated into one's prayer and union with the Church and the world, as the document says. So, I wouldn't totally discount the means of television or radio for news, but it does sound as if the means of obtaining news are up to the wise discretion of the community.

I believe we received a wonderful response by several VOWED RELIGIOUS who actually are leading a life devoted to service of the Lord. Their answers were well put and clear.
I find it truly frightening that some people here are so afraid that watching a news cast will scandalize a community. Obviously they never have stepped foot in a visiting parlor and listened to what goes on there. Obviously members of their family are destined for sainthood, since they have no scandal in their lives, no children born without marriage, parents divorced, family members who abandon their religion. If they believe that watching a tv show will threaten a nuns sacred vows, then how shallow their beliefs are.
I know many, many sisters and nuns. I have spent a great portion of time in convents and monasteries. I have sat next to a cloistered nun and watched the evening news. She fingered her rosary and later prayed for those people. Scandalized, hardly. Interrupt her spirit of recollection, no way. I have cheered for a local sports team with a group of sisters, we had a great time. Then we went back to the convent and prayed.
Nuns are people. You cant live the entirety of your life praying and sacrificing. There must be diversions, there must be some fun in your life. To think otherwise is a little demented.
The folks on phatmass have strong beliefs in our wonderful religion. We are blessed with a wondrful history and an even more wonderful loving God. We need to respect each others opinions and accept the diversity.

+

Please remember charity. It is probable that these posters and inquirers are young and still learning and discerning how things happen in the convent. Aside from that there can only be an acceptance of legitimate "diversity" and there should not be an acceptance of things, even opinions, that are contrary to the teachings of the Church. That is false compassion and false "diversity".

The vowed religious have made wonderful contributions as have the laity about the practical and the theoretical and excellent distinctions between active and enclosed.

Blessings,
V

Well-said alice mary

This is why there is always, in pretty much all religious communities, a time of recreation: for the Discalced Carmelites 2 hours a day, which St. Teresa specifically set out.

However, I do not think it is right to say that those who are conservative regarding the use of media, are incorrect in some way. As others have mentioned, Verbi Sponsa does call for a limited use of the media for those to whom the document is addressed.

In the life of Sr. Consolata, Poor Clare Capuchin, Our Lord asked her to offer an unceasing, Jesus, Mary, I love you! Save souls! and to be vigilant to never miss one, as each act of love would save a soul. There are many such religious in the history of the Church that were called to this type of life - not to say it is better, but this is their particular mission in the Church, and it is very important - each soul has their own special irreplacable mission - whether called to the religious state, or the laity - of which there are many saints.

The way the sisters receive the news on currents events, at pretty much all the cloistered communities I've known (several OCD Carmels, the PCCs in Lemont, the Srs of Bethlehem & the Srs of St. John) - is that usually the Reverend Mother reads something of the news, and is informed by those outside the monastery, and lets the community know the important things that need to be prayed for.

But even if a cloistered nun had no idea of any of the news, she is always aware that at each moment, there is a soul out there dying, often not in the state of grace, that needs her prayers at this moment.

The cloistered life has existed for centuries (as has also all forms of religious consecrated life), and without the use of any media, which did not hinder them in the least from being fruitful members of the Mystical Body of Christ - on the contrary - great multitudes of saints have lived this life throughout the centuries and contributed to an invaluable degree in the salvation of souls.

I do not disagree that it is good to be informed about important current events, so that they can pray for them, and that a limited use of the media can be very beneficial, like looking up great information for novice classes, as Sr. Mary Catharine does.

But the event of the departure of a soul from this earth, who's eternal salvation is at stake, is a huge event and means the world to that one person. The media, generally speaking, does not give as much importance to hidden events such as this. They are, generally speaking, more caught up in affairs that are loud and visible. Like in the diary of Sr. Josefa Menendez, she would hear demons screaming over a soul they want to take down with them, which is at the moment of death. But through her prayers and sacrifices, they received the grace of final repentance, and the demons were infuriated.

This need for prayers for the simple intention of the salvation of souls is ever present, and does not require the use of media to be continually aware of.

+

Great points Margaret Clare. Thanks for the contributions. I think this is a great discussion, and I am thankful for what I am learning.

What an eloquent defense of the sacrificial nature of contemplative life! You also did a great job of positively presenting the integral mission of every cloistered nun: to pray for souls. Thank you! I couldn't have said it better, that's for sure. God bless you, Margaret!

That said, it is much easier to pray for people if you know something about them - at least, it is for me. I 'pray the news' every morning, focusing on the photographs and the stories of the people who need prayer. It makes it easier for me to focus. I know of some convents where newspapers are left in the community room and it is up to the discretion of the individual sister as to how much she reads or doesn't read. I think that is a good system, as some people may not be able to read very much without getting distracted or agitated, while others may find the newspaper very conducive to their prayer. If it's possible to peel potatoes in a contemplative way, it surely is possible to read about your brothers and sisters in the outside world in that spirit.

That is the system at OLAM, where I used to be. There is also a dry-erase board in the community room for sisters to write family prayer requests and such. It worked well for us because the amount of news to be taken in by any one sister was up to her own discretion. And Mother Vicar would fill us in on anything urgent when we had our regular lessons with her.

But as has been mentioned before, there are different systems that work well for different communities.

The community room is where we place our newspapers and various magazines. As for prayer requests, we receive e-mails and usually, they are printed out for all to read (tho' many sisters have e-mail). It's very helpful to pray for those who are in need of our prayers.

Not to change the subject - but Totus Tuus, when you say Mother Vicar, who was that? Mother Angelica? Forgive my lack of knowledge.

sr betsy

Amen to that. I completely accept people's opinions, but I really think sometimes these topics get totally out of hand.

So far I have not heard anyone say anything that is not legitimate. I do not think that alicemary was uncharitable at all, as you seemed to imply. I think she was just frank about how she felt the same way you were frank with her about how you felt about her post.

Mother Vicar is under Mother Abbess (which is Mother Angelica). Mother Vicar is Sr. Mary Catherine, who is acting superior since Mother Angelica is not well.

Hm,

All this reminds me of a priest telling me it was good to have a bible in one hand, and a newspaper in the other. But I'm not sure if he was referring to contemplative nuns as well, though he was himself a discalced carmelite. Just a tiny little thought.

God bless,

Gabriel

While I do like the idea of leaving it up to the Reverend Mother's discretion for the whole community, that's not a bad system either.

I guess one of my major concerns then would be that they get a good source of news. We get both the Chicago Tribune and the Chicago Sun-Times, because we have a close friend that writes for the Sun-Times. But wow, it can be terrible, and the pictures that are often on the front page .. It's seriously becoming more and more like a tabloid. And the Tribune is not always so great either. This woman who writes for the Sun-Times & her husband have both been in the news industry all their lives, and so often they comment on just how messed up it's becoming - the bad morals that are accepted as normal by our society these days, especially on TV news.

So that would be one of the major reasons why I feel strongly about keeping this kind of stuff out of religious life/leaving it up to the Reverend Mother's discretion. Just because something's in the news, doesn't mean everyone then has to be subjected to it, if you understand what I mean.

I do understand though about reading the news and seeing pictures of the people everything and feeling even more motivated to pray - and that is soo important, because so many people and issues do need our prayers urgently, and it definitely helps us focus on others rather than ourselves.

Then also of course there are the Catholic sources of news about world events and the Church. I find especially The Catholic World Report magazine outstanding for giving a good perspective on what are the major international events and issues that the Church is facing, like reports of martyrs, the Church in this or that country, efforts to unite the Churches of the East & West and the Traditionalist factions, etc.

But yes, guys I was going to say, the use/reading/watching of media is definitely of great importance to many forms of religious life, but actually reading through the posts I see this has already been said very well!

I don't mean at all to say when I posted about cloistered nuns, and their main mission of praying for souls, that somehow the mission of other religious are not as important - no way!

I'm reminded of Fr. Corapi talking about how he is unafraid of speaking the truth because it is a matter of LIFE or DEATH (of the soul!) And the use of media and keeping up with the latest news and responding to that, is an integral part of the mission of the Church, entrusted to orders like the Daughters of St. Paul & the Salesians, in their work with the youth, and many more - and it extremely important!

Fr. Corapi, in his Catechism series, spoke well on this, in that the internet/media/TV is not bad in itself - it's just that evil has been able to make use of it much faster than good has. But we have to use this medium then to our advantage.

(And obviously the internet is extremely resourceful for finding incredible information in a short amount of time that you might not find elsewhere & for searching for orders, etc - that goes without saying I think!! )

His own site: http://www.fathercorapi.com It's great, and if you scroll all the way down, there's a link where you can receive a blessing from Father! I asked a priest once about this and he believed that yes, a priestly blessing can be given in this way, and also through the TV or radio. I've heard that when the Pope gives an Apostolic Blessing through the media, those listening/watching can also recieve it! Cool!

But actually the life of a cloistered OCD nun is definitely different than an OCD friar. They have different missions in the Church, though they're in the same order. Again, Verbi Sponsa: Instruction on the Contemplative Life and on the Enclosure of Nuns - particulary articles 5 & 20

I believe it may be similar to the difference between a contemplative Dominican Nun and a Dominican Friar. Is that a bad comparison? Are there contemplative mens' communities within the Carmelite Order?




By this, do you mean that you think that Reverend Mother will choose what each individual sister sees? Because in either case, she probably has to approve it (i.e., the norm is probably for the superior to approve the newspapers that are put in the community room in a contemplative community).

+

This surprises me. I have always been taught that the blessing must be live. For example, a live telecast the blessing is received, but a videotaped and delayed telecast, not so. Hmm....

Yes, I'd say that's a good comparison. Well, for the Discalced Carmelite Order there are not wholly contemplative communities for men. The friars are active contemplatives. But there are several Carmelite communities of men that are wholly contemplative like the OCD nuns. The first one to come to mind is the Carmelite Monks in Wyoming, who follow the OCD charism. (notice they're monks, not friars) Then there are the Hermits of the BVM of Mt. Carmel in Lake Elmo (within walking distance from the OCD nuns in Lake Elmo - they're their chaplains) then the Carmelite Hermits in Christoval, TX. (the last 2 in the O.Carm Order) Then I'm sure there are others I'm unaware of (probably EJames would know).


Ah, ok, I get what you're saying - the Mother Superior would decide which newspapers would be in the community room - that's good. What I mean is that the way it was explained to me, particularly at the Carmels I visited, was that the Mother would read some of the paper/receive important news from those that help out at the monastery, and then tell the sisters important things they need to pray for, but not that the individual nuns would read the actual articles themselves, although I'm guessing they would probably have some individual articles cut out that the sisters could read.

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...p;#entry1299925
post #74 and #75
pax

Hey thanks! So there are monasteries of OCD Friars that are more contemplative like these. And that's so cool how the one is in a former Carthusian monastery!


Hey, Veritas! You're probably right actually. I'm not sure myself. It's neat they have it recorded on his site though!


:D But yeah, I mean really, it's extremely important that the Church respond to what is happening in today's world! God bless!

you have very good questions....lol

I think the reason some religious communities watch TV is because....they still want live in the world....just not of it.....They don't want to be stupid...and not know what is going on in the world...how can they help people if they don't know what the people need.....and what to pray for.....

Watching of TV in monasteries isn't necessary when the same news that is on TV is in the newspapers. Many orders have someone assigned - externs or prioress or abbess, etc. - who scan and clip newspaper articles and post them on their bulletin boards along with prayer requests that are sent to the monastery. These same orders ONLY watch TV for the death of a pope and the re-election of a pope, as it should be.

Many good prioresses and abbesses have told me that there are many ways of "breaking enclosure" that just don't include walking out the front door! A very good cloistered Dominican nuns and PCCs have told me that their sisters and them aren't aloud on the internet at all and don't want to be as it is another way of breaking enclosure and keeping "one foot in the world and not giving everything up for God in total self-abandonment and self-sacrifice". The novice mistress, prioress or vocation mistress of these orders only use their internet (if they have it) for emailing vocation inquiries and that is it! No web surfing to forums and other sites.

The orders who scan papers or are told news by benefactors and such are just as informed as the orders who watch TV when they really don't have to.

Plus some things you DON'T need to know they are so sinful or gross anyway! It's enough for an order to know that some murders took place WITHOUT seeing bodies bloodied and under sheets in the street or whatever on TV! They can pray just as well. Besides just hearing the REAL news, you also get croutons like the latest Hollywood's nonsense or Britney Spear's or Paris Hilton foolishness. An order can just pray in general for such people prone to sin, custody of the eyes is a good thing a lot of the time!

(The above is not just my opinion, but the opinions and beliefs of excellent, traditional orders. Besides I rarely if ever watch the news and I am informed and know what is going on.)

Dear Catholic3in1,
Please forgive me if I seem like I am singling you out. I know other people in this thread have made similar comments in this same vain. I just wanted to address this misconception; that a cloistered nun somehow needs to be "plugged in" to the world (through media, news, etc.) in order to know what to pray for. This is an untruth that seems to come up sometimes in these discussions.

One only need observe the lives of the Saints--our models for religious life--to know that this is false reasoning. According to the Saints, when a soul reaches the high degree of holiness to which it is called in the religious life (that is, intimate union Our Lord), this is sufficient to merit the greatest graces possible in this world, which God may distribute according to His Holy will. A soul that seeks divine union need not be concerned with worldly affairs to know what to pray for (as if God is incapable of speaking to the soul directly of His desires), since Our Lord Himself will reveal things to the soul without the need for external sources. Such was the case with Padre Pio, for example, who knew what to pray for and who to pray for through his intimate union with the Lord. The same is true with Saint Faustina -- a cloistered nun in total isolation from the world -- who could boldly proclaim;

"By prayer and mortification, we will make our way to the most uncivilized countries, paving the way for the missionaries. We will bear in mind that a soldier on the front line cannot hold out long without support from the rear forces that do not actually take part in the fighting but provide for all his needs; and that such is the role of prayer, and that therefore each one of us is to be distinguished by an apostolic spirit."
- dirary, November 1935, ¶.539

"I know that I live, not for myself, but for a great number of souls. I know that graces granted me are not for me alone, but for souls. O Jesus. the abyss of Your mercy has been poured into my soul, which is an abyss of misery itself. Thank You, Jesus, for the graces and the pieces of the Cross which You give me at each moment of my life." - ibid., ¶.382

Ultimately, Our Lord will know what to do with the graces merited on our behalf more than we will. The best form of prayer is sacrifice, love, and obedience to His will through our superiors.

Blessings.

I agree that surfing the internet or watching tv could be or should be violation of enclosure. I think orders that rigorously observe enclosure are more prayerful than ones that have a more relaxed idea of what that is. But thats just my opinion!

This is not just your opinion. This is the truth. While superiors may have an obligation to stay somewhat informed, professed cloistered nuns do not.

It is interesting to note that when people asked Padre Pio if they could purchase a TV set, he would always discourage them from doing so. He once told someone jokingly; "The man who invented refrigeration went to heaven, but the man who invented the television...." concluding his remarks by pointing downward.

While he did at times join the brothers to watch Catholic events, such as the funeral of Pope Pius XII (such as one might watch on EWTN today), overall he always felt it was a pernicious invention that corrupted morals and destroyed the family (let alone cloistered nuns in a convent).

If only Padre Pio were alive today; to see what TV has become.

I've seen it myself, especially in a certain cloistered order which has both a relaxed and a rigorous observation of enclosure. I couldn't imagine a cloistered order just freely watching t.v, movies, or surfing the internet. But then again a community is not a static event, but a growing living organism. Mother Angelica's community watched t.v and read news papers before the 1993 change when they re-adopted the traditional habit and traditional monastic customs.

I think it's impossible to judge these things in such a general way, and much depends upon the health of the community. One might have a perfectly enclosed order that is healthy, but one could just as easily have a "perfectly enclosed" order that is neurotic as all get-out. Likewise, you can have a more "relaxed" (some would say "practical") use of media - particularly as a means of serving the quests and seekings of those who wonder if they have a vocation (as the success of this very forum attests to the need) - that can be exceedingly healthy, or a more "relaxed" enclosure that has other problems.

The internet - used well - is a mere tool, and an abbess or abbot is free to use any tool that better serves the community or assists in the community's relations to the uncloistered world that needs them so greatly. There is a true service there, as communities extend glimpses into their lives and offer prayers, and the world both gets inspired by those glimpses and also helps to support those houses. I think St. Teresa of Avila - who was a very PRACTICAL woman, would have used the internet in a very practical way. In fact, it would not surprise me if she would have a blog - she was all about outreach and building and teaching. Particularly in an age where young Catholics are poorly catechized and when so many have never even seen a habited nun, and are unfamiliar with the whole concept of cloister and enclosure, I think these sites can be extremely instructive, and believe we owe the Lord a bit of a "thank you" for finding a way to pierce through popular culture and reveal his spousal call to so many who may sense a call, and a yearning, but cannot properly identify it.

While it is certainly true that the internet can be both a helpful tool and a cause for temptation - we all know that - I tend to reject the notion that the measure of a community is how perfectly they resemble cloisters from 100 years ago, and think it's best to look to the Lord, and not ourselves, when it comes to such a question. He said, "by their fruits you shall know them."

I see contemplative orders with practical use of media who seem to be thriving and attracting strong vocations that persevere, and others where the novices quickly flame-out. The spiritual and mental health of the community would have a lot to do with the success or failure rate. That plus, of course, sometimes the Lord wants his servant elsewhere. And of course, the movement of the Holy Spirit.

I have great admiration for the contemplative houses who keep a guard over their strict enclosure, but I note that even the Poor Clares of Roswell, New Mexico (who are pretty darned strict about their papal enclosure) have a site, and I think they're smart to do it. It's one thing to keep a "guard," and another to not at least put the equivalent of a brochure on the 'net, and establish a means of people being able to find you.

For that matter, the Carmelite Monks in Wyoming are strictly enclosed, but they have a site and also support their growing house by selling coffee (and it's delicious coffee) on the internet!

I likewise appreciate a house like the Summit Dominicans, who show both the solemnity of a contemplative vocation (as when they posted a video of the community at Compline in Advent) and the joy of the same vocation, in the day-to-day living out of their vows. It is important witness to the value and sanity of contemplative life, in a world that too often blows it off as "insane" or "weird". Seeing these young women move through their religious life reminds me to PRAY for their intentions, and for MORE vocations. When my family needed prayer, recently, I felt very comfortable asking the Summit Dominicans to remember our need in their prayer, because I felt a "connection."

So...just my (rather long) opinion - I think it's not really fair to dismiss out of hand those communities who make use of the 'net. By their fruits, you'll know them.

He'd be on EWTN with Mother Angelica via satellite! :-)

And look what TV has become - yes, it's a sewer, but properly used, it's a powerful evangelical tool!

Same with the internet. I know a priest who gave his computer away, because he said - quite rightly - that "they lied to us! They promised it would make our lives better and easier, and instead it took up all our time and made opportunities for sin limitless!"

But, by the same token, there are blogs by Deacons and Priests and even some nuns, that teach wonderful things. See how this blog teaches a 9 year old girl, and who knows if the Lord will speak to her heart about a vocation thanks to this input? http://www.passionistnuns.org/Blog/?p=50

The tool is just a tool. It's all in how you use it. A hammer can build a house or break a skull.

a related article (which features a former phatmasser, Lauren )


Personally I would agree with what Br. Simon Mary said. It's great if a cloistered community has a page (like on the IRL site) or a website online, but to not have access to the internet within the enclosure.