The archbishop of my diocese has approached me several times over the past year about a vocation to the priesthood. He has invited me over for dinner and given me his home phone number in case I ever have questions about recognizing God's call.

While I'm honored by his confidence and concern for me, I just don't feel called to the priesthood in the current climate in the US. My bishop, however, seems to have other thoughts on the matter.

How do you say "no" to an archbishop?

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He has asked gently enough. Keep discerning. You don't need to tell him anything else. Just don't call and don't go, if you're not interested right now and/or tell him just what you told us.

Is your only concern the current climate in the US? If that is the main thing holding you back, you might start by making a list of pro's and con's you have concerning the vocation. You might be surprised that your bishop has an insight into yourself that you have not recognized yet! However, if you really feel Our Lord calling you to something else specifically (like marriage or something), maybe you could simply tell your bishop that. If he knew what you were earnestly feeling called to, maybe he would have some super advice to get you on that path as well. But if your only concern is the climate, I would be open... like I said, your bishop might see something in you that you don't see in yourself yet

In any case, prayers from the Pham

Thanks for the prayers. My concern is that the priestly formation in the US is sorrily lacking in many areas and I don't feel called to incorporate myself into that deficiency and then pastor God's people with weaknesses that can affect their practice and recpetion of the faith.

Dating advice from an archbishop....like getting dancing lessons from an architect!

Sure beats the advice you'll get from most people.

None of it's worked so far....

Its not a career, its a call.
Very simple.

If you are called by the God, you simply say yes.
If you are not called by God, you say no.

Equivocating that you don't like the current climate is a poor excuse of an answer to the Archbishop AND to God.
God doesn't ask our opinion of the climate or condition of the Church, He just expects us to wade in and start fixing it.

read my little blurb below.

I don't see what weather has to do with you becoming a priest. Maybe I'm missing something.

Who says you have to study in the US? One of my parish priests studied at the NAC in Rome, which is like (from what i hear) a very good seminary.

yep yep! I think everyone here has given some great advice! Maybe you shouldn't work so much on saying no... *nudge nudge* think about it anyway.... with God all things are possible. There must be a seminary out there that is just right for you if that is where God is calling you.

While there is some bad seminary formation in the US, there are also some really good, really orthodox seminaries. There's also the possibility of going abroad to a seminary, as someone said.

While it may seem a significant obstacle, it is definetely something that can be worked around. Express your concerns to your archbishop (if you feel you can), and see what he has to say. Who knows, maybe God is calling you to help reform the seminaries. The world and the Church need priests who are willing, above all else, to love the Lord and to lead others into His love. While their formation programs are crucial, there have been and always will be GOOD priests that come out of BAD seminaries. Something to consider...

Can anyone say: SJV?

http://www.vianney.net/

One thing that I have to say is simply this. If the Call to the Priesthood was based on the positives of the culture and the seminaries that are around, then I don't think there would be any newly ordained priests in America. I'm not saying there are no good seminaries, but let's face it, the moral status of America right now is not very good, and from what I've heard from different media sources America, in the world, is known as a moral place, so that does not bode well. God does not look at the culture we are in when He gives different men the Call: He looks into their hearts and in their hearts He places that Calling. If the Archbishop keeps asking you if you're interested in the priesthood, I would say look into it more. If you don't feel comfortable being a parish priest, perhaps that's not where God is calling you, but that doesn't mean that you don't have a vocation to the priesthood. There are many other options available. Be open, and one of the biggest factors about being open is being able to find inner silence. Place yourself in silence, and listen: the Holy Spirit will let you know where you are to go when He deems it the right time.

May God bless and protect you always in all of your endeavors, especially your discernment!

Your Brother in Christ,

Joe

If you have issues with priestly formation in the US and don't want to deal with the diocesan stuff you could consider an order? just pray about it and check out different charisms....if i remember rightly you like music? you could consider the benedictines who still chant and everything....you could be the organ player for a monastery! that'd be fun! anyway just because you don't feel called to follow your bishop's call doesnt mean you arent called. dont just dismiss the vocation to priesthood/religious life so quickly...

i know i'm preaching to the choir but there it is.

I agree with the others--if you are only fearful about learning wrong stuff, that isn't a reason God isn't calling you! :D Be not afraid! God knows your fears and yes, I am happy you are concerned about that... Shows how much you care and could be another pointer that you are supposed to be a priest maybe! But He'll also not just leave you in the dirt--He'll lead you where He wants you to go! All you need to do is say YES!

Your Archbiship could help you find a very orthodox seminary...

Veritas has a link--I believe I've heard it's good... And we had a pastor who once said that the St. Paul Seminary in Minnesota (I believe that was the one not Vienny) was once one of the WORST but is now taking a full turn-around and is now one of the BEST in the country! :D I'll be praying for you!

You don't ... :-).

Maybe the Lord could use you as an instrument for change? And maybe the Bishop is picking up on this from the Lord?

I remember my initial thoughts of leaving my country in order to pursue religious life -- it was an adamant no. It took years to get me to the point where I'd be willing to go wherever the Lord wanted me to. Now I'm willing to go ... and in my heart I know I will return to my country but that's an unknown (and I'm ok with that). But I may have lost years in the process.

Do not place any "roadblocks" to your vocation -- He has something in mind. And unluckily (from experience) we put roadblocks in the way. Trust me its easier to remove the roadblocks early than to do it later.

-- Carmen

But if you don't, things are never going to change.

An archbishop pursuing you for a vocation is a very rare thing. I'd love a chance to talk to and have dinner with an archbishop. How did you meet?

If he keeps asking you about a vocation, tell him why you don't want it. Might be a wakeup call for him. Say, respectfully, "Hey, listen, I don't hear very good things about seminary formation as it exists in the hands of the baby boomers. If you want the next generation of young people to embrace the Faith, and pusue vocations to the priesthood and religious life, you're going to have to stop playing to the baby boomers as your prime demographic just because they are the ones who currently have the money. You need to clean things up for the younger generation. They're orthodox. They're more favorable towards traditional forms of liturgy and devotion. They're smart. Listen, a lot of people have already left the church in the past 50 years. A lot of young people are only nominally Catholic. It's a disaster, and you keep pretending the status quo is fine. BUT the ones who are left, are very good, are obedient, are orthodox. Don't lose them too. Clean up the seminary, crack down on nonsense, don't accept heresy from the pulpit. Rock the boat a little, for crying out loud! Then, maybe, I can consider what you've said about a vocation. But right now, I don't think, for the good of my soul, I can let myself just become another bureaucrat in an institution suffering a major crisis of leadership."

Honestly, you seem to have something of an upper hand here. He seems to really want you, need you. He's sort of "begging" isn't he? Well, tell him the plain and honest truth.

Still, batteddy, gotta remember to talk to him with respect as being a Bishop is from God and the status deserves it! (meaning maybe tone down the harshness a bit )

Dinner is just dinner....I brought the wine, he made the pasta. Simple....

We met at a large parish Mass I was liturgist and musician for and then we worked together the next day at another Mass, entirely by coincidence. I'm pretty well known in the Chancery office in my archdiocese and also work with our judicial vicar at a parish. Since I work at a large parish, he comes out to pray with us relatively frequently so we have a lot of contact.

In regards to seminaries....I'm not concerned about learning the wrong stuff. I'm concerned about NOT learning the right stuff. Seminaries don't prepare men for parish ministry. They prepare them to use the index in the Catechism. There is little formation for personnel management, multicultural concerns, and general parish leadership. I want to pastor souls to more active service to Christ, formed and transformed by the liturgy and commissioned for real service to the Kingdom. So rare is it that a pastor is formed to do that.

I refuse to pastor any flock with a surrounding average temperature of less than 71 degrees Fahrenheit.

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You've got to know the meat first. There are lots of pastoral opportunities (and demands) along with good seminary formation. I know someone you should talk to.

I'm in the same boat...

I didn't see anything about weather . . . but CMom's signature line changes from time to time, and perhaps your browser is picking up a new/old one ??

Here's what I saw:

The ethic of inclusion in the gospels could be stated:
You can come as you are and leave behind what you can,
but you may not stay as you were or do as you will.

–The Rt. Rev. Francis Gray

If I remember correctly, the spiritual temperature of Ars, France was well below freezing. Then entered the worst student in the seminary of Lyons. The rest is history.

Are you called to priesthood? I don't know. What I do know is that an Archbishop may see in you something he knows his archdiocese needs, badly.

Now I don't know you, and I can't call on your vocation. Perhaps you are called to be a priest religious, or a brother. Perhaps you are called to marriage.

What I do know is that a priest gives me Jesus. What I do know is that a priest's hands are my Lord's when he absolves me.

Does a priest need to know basic finances? Yes, but there's such thing as good advice and help.

Does a priest need to know how to speak publicly? Definitely. Sure you can and should take classes on this, but in the end it is more a craft than a skill. More an art than a science. You need practice and get solid advice from those you trust.

As for personnel management, it's easier than you think when you remember you're the dad and they are your children, even if they are rebellious, tantrum-prone, middle-aged adolescents. The rest is forms and checks.

As for multicultural concerns, give what you can when you can for the sake of all their souls. Don't betray one group for the sake of another, and remember you are the dad, they aren't. (Just remember that bilingual masses are mostly incomprehensible to everyone, even for those who know both languages - the gears really grind).

As for church leadership, yup, you're the dad, they aren't. Talk to your dad, and other dads. Pick up how they handle things best. Trust in your bishop, the Holy Father, and most of all Jesus. Sure, you'll botch here and there as any human, but as long as you hold true and stay firm, you'll make an excellent priest. Also, it doesn't hurt listening to Dr. Ray Guarendi on the radio, as you will learn how to be a good dad.

Just remember, a priest gives us Jesus first and foremost. We, the Church militant, are literally dying for good priests.

Your points are well taken, but I fear you may oversimplify the pastoral duties of a diocesan parish priest. Sure, there is a paternal element of the pastoral relationship, but also remember there are people with much more diverse life experience than you could ever possibly have and the role will not alwyas be so clearly defined. There are staff members in the US with doctoral degrees and 25 years experience in ministry. Many seminaries give precious little time to pastoral formation, while the laity are immersing themselves in it. To simply say "I'm the dad and I say so" is recipe for disastrous results (I've seen it happen all too frequently - a hot-headed priest thinks he knows everything because he had oil smeared on his hands and he burns every bridge in sight). By the way, my dad died last month, so we aren't really speaking...

Also, remember a parish is also a civil corporation with a budget of, in some cases, well over $1 million. Am I really trained and competent to administer that budget?

In terms of multicultural concerns, I'm not worried about bilingual Masses. I'm concerned about pastoring a flock made up of an old German parish merged with a Hispanic community, one dying and one just beginning to thrive. I worry about being able to minister to a dying way of life while a new way of life is taking root.

These are my concerns...not reasons to say "no"...just concerns.

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Nothing worth doing is ever easy. No one ever said being a priest is an easy job.

True dat....isn't that what the kids say nowadays?

My condolences and prayers for your father. As for my oversimplification, yes I did mean to do so. Yes you are going to come across a wide variety of personalities and a wide variety of backgrounds and experience regardless of your future vocation and profession. Quite possibly, you will have a few people much more experienced than you working as subordinates. Yes, there is a need for cool, collected management with some experience, and sadly, the best way to learn how to manage is to do it. Yes, I agree that a hothead for a priest is a walking disaster, and that is usually based on personal arrogance as opposed to paternal confidence.



Well, picking up working knowledge in accounting and budgeting these days is useful regardless of your vocation. Sadly, I've seen engineers nearly tank the businesses they work for by not thinking of the bottom line. Even so, in every parish I have dealt with, you are not without allies who are often very experienced at this sort of thing.



You wouldn't happen to be talking about my old home parish? It's tough, and I really did mean that you can only give what you can. While the Germans may be saddened, frustrated, and even angry at losing their hold, as long as you don't betray them while slavishly appeasing your Hispanic sheep at every turn, the good majority of them will accept the changes. Sadly, I've seen the Germans and Italians utterly abandoned when the new priest came in. I've also seen the Hispanics marginalized to almost nothing in another parish.

In all, these are challenges, but having a degree in dealing with all of them doesn't guarantee success in any of them. I will pray for your discernment one way or the other, according to His will.

Are you ready to proclaim and die for the truth as the Church understands it and save souls?

That is what you need to be a Priest. Everything else is secondary. Our Lord didn't ask the Apostles (all Jews) if they understood the Gentiles, he told them to take the Gospel to the ends of the earth. They faced cultural problems between Gentiles and Jews, but they learned as they went.

Good point, but I would say that proclaiming and dying for the Gospel of Christ is something ALL Christians should be willing to do - not just priests. What sets a priest apart in that respect?

The Priest is an icon of Christ. The primary duty of a Priest is to offer the Sacraments, which are the ordinary means of grace and salvation. He is also a representative of the Church in a way that the laity cannot be. His ministry is an extension of the ministry of the Bishop. This comes attached with practical administration (such as finances), but no Priest will ever go to hell because he was a poor administrator (unless he was was purposely negligent). Many Priests may go to hell because they did not fulfill their primary duties: to offer the Sacraments, to proclaim the truth according to the teaching of the Church, and to make the people holy. We must all proclaim and die for the Gospel, but the Priest is our shepherd. He must protect the sheep on the narrow path. Parents don't know how they will deal with every problem that children bring, but they undertake their vocation with faith and trust in God's grace; like Priests, they learn as they go. I'm not trying to minimize the practical concerns of a Priest, but if you have a vocation you can learn what you need to learn. What matters most is that you want to serve God and help his people become Saints.

I say this with the upmost level of respect.. but every time you post, to me anyway, you come off as very condescending.

That being said, I've been around here for a long time, and I know that you are very loving and kind. However, sometimes, your responses don't show it.

fidei defensor: You haven't been here all that long, and Cmom is a mom, not condescending.

VaticanIILiturgist: If God is calling you, then you will be prepared as He sees fit, not as we see fit. The most important lesson I've learned in the seminary is to trust. Trust my formation, trust the formation staff, trust the Bishop, trust the vocations director and trust GOD.

It can seem very overwhelming, but it will all work out to God's glory as long as we trust.

peace...

I have to be careful when selecting music for my parish, because there is a recessional song that always makes we want to call up my diocesan vocation director (also my opera buddy) and sign up.

Refrain:
"With full voice and a joyful shout,
God's name we will proclaim.
With thanks and praise enkindling,
the message lives the same.
For the love of Christ compels us,
for the love of Christ supports us,
for the love of Christ urges us on:
the love of Christ urges us on!

Verses:
1. Our God of grace and mercy,
who has called and chosen us,
is glorified through justice, faith and love.

2. Sent forth to reap the harvest now,
coheirs with Jesus Christ,
we heal, we preach, we spread the news of love."

I think your arguments against becoming a priest are quite shallow and sound like rationalizations to have an excuse not to truly discern.
But your lack of openness and trust that God can form you despite the limitations of any seminary program (because they are all made up of humans which will always be imperfect) to me indicate that perhaps you might not be called to be a priest. If you are, I think God would have to adjust some of your attitudes for Him to be able to teach you what He needs to, no matter what program you are part of.

Was that encouragement or a rebuke? I can't quite tell....

Both?




Tebbly sowwy, but nope. Just about all our diocesan stuff is bilingual, and there are tons of other bilingual stuff here, and no one (or almost no one) has a problem with it. It works out really well. Of course, I live in a city where you switch languages with some frequency in any case, so...

J.M.J.

It is just a meeting. It is not like you two are going to sit down and start filling out applications for the seminary. I think you should meet with him. I mean, what exactly do you think is going to happen that you are so fearful of just meeting and talking with him? It seems to me like you know how to say no, and everyone here is suggesting ways for you to say "yes".

I've read through the responses thus far on this thread and I'm trying to chose my words carefully and constructively contribute to this conversation. My first question is this: V2Lit, do you see "priest" and "pastor of a parish" as the same thing? Being a priest does NOT mean you have to be a pastor. If you enter a diocesan seminary, it may be very likely though.


I agree--especially with your last line. I attend a Catholic graduate school/house of formation for a religious order. Here religious men and women study along side lay men and women. Time and time again--especially after I interned with the DRE at a parish--I am thankful that I've had classes for academic formation (doctrine, etc) AND ministerial/professional formation (leadership skills, class/race/gender ministry). Finding a balance b/w the academic and the ministerial isn't easy--but it's to the detriment of the church overall if it's not the goal for priests and laity in ministerial training.


We read and study case studies just like the ones you describe in my classes. Your experience in ministry is a very real description of what's going on there. And I couldn't agree with you more--they don't become reasons to flat-out deny a call. But they do become very real concerns in discernment.


I agree, it's impossible to know everything you need to know in a career or vocation. And much of that way of life will require a person to "learn as they go." But we can't recklessly advocate walking blindly through life and picking up only what we need to at that very moment. That's why parents can enroll themselves in parenting classes--and why engaged couples go through pre-Cana--and why being a priest or a religious takes YEARS of education formation. We all ought to reflect and learn from previous life experiences. But at the same time, we hone our gifts and become even more aware of the good that God works through as us we prepare ourselves for the vocation He has in store for us. And in my opinion, it is critical that those working in religious ministry--priests, lay workers, religious--have the breadth and depth of training that will equip them to be the best faciliatators of grace possible.

Why do you always wait until I'm out of town to pop in for a visit...

In the current state of the clergy in the US, I would find it almost unconscionable to be ordained a priest and not expect to be a pastor. With access to the Sacraments declining, I would feel absolutely bound to be amongst God's people so that the Sacraments would be accessible to them. The Sacraments were made for the Church - having the power to convey them and not doing so is a disservice to all.

I would agree--and then I would add a further clarification. Not all men who feel called to priesthood feel called to pastor a parish. And for that I am very thankful. Likewise I think the Holy Spirit equips people to have a pastoring charim without having them be priests!

The sacramental rights, privileges, responsibilities bestowed on a priest at ordination are not limited stricktly to pastoring a parish. There are numerous other ways to pastor (Latin (v., n.): shepherd). The other ways I think of include teaching, chaplaincy, itinerant preaching, solidarity and witness with the poor, etc. Now many of those roles might overlap with pastoring a parish. But each individual role I named includes, for a priest, a necessary element of the sacramental expression of the priest's orders. In your words, to "have the power to convey them (sacraments) and not do so is a disservice to all." I couldn't agree more.

HSMom,

That's just the way I roll!

Hope all is well in the great white north!

peace...

Also, there is the vocation of a Priest Religious. I too believe that my talents and weaknesses would not allow for me to be a lone pastor. For this reason I believe I am more suited to being a member of a religious community. Perhaps one day I could be a pastor, yet I would need a great deal of priestly aid in doing so.

I had to say no to an Archbishop as well, yet he is happy that I would most likely still be serving in the diocese.

I do not agree, but you have to form your own conscience in this matter. If you are a priest and close to the bishop, perhaps you can help to fix the seminary problem, perhaps you can make more available the sacraments. If these issues bother you, realize that Christ often stirs our hearts for a reason, other than simply "that they be stirred."
I do however find it somewhat ridiculous that you have so little respect or deference towards priests who are not parish priests. How do you expect there to ever be enough parish priests if contemplative or even administrative priests are not doing their jobs? Contemplative priests offer themselves, with the whole church (not simply their congregation) to our Lord in the exercise of the sacraments, and thereby obtain grace for the whole Church. Moreover, in chapels and monasteries dedicated to prayer and the sacraments, many vocations are formed that could never grow alongside the busy, often too hectic lives of the parish priest. Consider the parable of the sower, how one seed fell on hard and stony ground, and never gained a root. So it might be with those who grow up around parish priests leading the hard life of modern ministry.

If an Archbishop seems to believe in your vocation, even though you may not be sure where such a vocation would lead you (even to a parish, prepared or not), remember that it is Christ himself (in terms of his authority) who is expressing his belief in your vocation. A Bishop is his vicar, symbolized by the cathedra and the triple swing of the incense (the same given to the Blessed Sacrament). In other words, have faith and prod him with your questions and concerns. Christ is acting in him, let the Bishop's encouragement act on you.

I always have liked the words to the Ven. John Cardinal Newman's hymn, "Lead kindly light amid th' encircling gloom, lead thou me on; the light is gone and I am far from home, lead thou me on. Keep thou my feet, I do not ask to see the distant scene, one step enough for me."

We are all entitled to disagree.

I have great respect for ordered priests. However, as I see parish after parish closed or merged, many parishes without a pastor, and daily Mass not offered at many parishes, how could I join an priestly order and live a life of priestly ministry that does not include pastoring God's people? But then again, the savior came once already, and I doubt I'm number 2....

I was out to dinner with a couple old friends tonight and got my dander up about how Christianity in America has lost sight of serving God's people and instead has become serving issues. I started pontificating in the restaurant and when I was finished, my friend asked when Fr. Dave would be opening his church. All in time.....

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That's nice, but it's really about what God is asking YOU to do and what gifts and talents he's given YOU. As a priest, you are useful simply because you exist. The Mass is not more or less efficacious because there are more or less people present. The time devoted to prayer and/or teaching by religious priests is not less important than the priest in a parish. It is a matter of both/and. The Church has some pretty interesting and profound teachings on the contemplative life, which of course not all religious life is. Perhaps if we had more praying contemplatives, we would have more priests in parishes, and good priests at that. Wait, that's not a perhaps, that is a for sure thing! So, again, where is God calling YOU?

Let me put it this way: if I am called to the priesthood, I would be a diocesan priesthood because I feel, at this moment, called to care for God's people in a pastoral way that gets my hands dirty. Celebrating Mass is the source and summit of life, but what flows out of that experience, for me, is something that begets service and action in the parish world.

And besides, I hated college when I was in it - why would I want to go back and teach it?

Okay. You do realize that you probably have a good 7-8 years of Seminary? Or, do you have a theo and philo degree? How's your Latin?

Trust me, I know how much school I have left. I do want a doctorate at some point in my life, so I do have a few years of books and papers left....I'm just enjoying the freedom of work right now...