So many people seem to be drawn to communities where Mass or the Divine Office will be prayed in Latin. I find this very interesting because it is not possible to understand Latin to the extent that we understand our native language. It has been very helpful in my spiritual life to be able to hear the prayers of the Mass in English. So often an exact phrasing of an opening prayer or a collect or communion antiphon will strike me. If these were prayed in Latin, there would be no way for the same effect to happen. I know a person could follow along in English in the Missal when the Mass was always in Latin, but I feel very blessed that I have lived in a time where the prayers of the Mass could be celebrated in a language that I understand so well. Sometimes a priest will choose a special preface that is fitting for a Mass, and if I were not able to hear the prayer in English I could not even follow along in the Missal since he chose the preface just for that day. The various Eucharistic prayers which are permitted are also very beautiful in addition to the Roman Canon and have deep roots in the early history of the Church, I'm quite sure.
The Latin Mass is a beautiful means for people from all the world to celebrate Mass together and participate in it, but I am quite sure that if people were prepared correctly with prayer, knowledge of doctrine and Scripture, the Mass in the vernacular will bear much more fruit spiritually in the lives of the faithful. If this were not so, the Holy Spirit would not have led the Fathers of Vatican Council II as He did to permit the Mass to be prayed in the vernacular. I love praying the Mass and the Office in English because I have learned so much more about my faith from the prayers and God has taught many beautiful things to my soul because I could understand the prayers as I offered to Him the most powerful prayers of the Church.
Because I have found such blessings from this, I am just wondering why there is such a strong attraction among many for Latin.

So many people seem to be drawn to communities where Mass or the Divine Office will be prayed in Latin. I find this very interesting because it is not possible to understand Latin to the extent that we understand our native language. It has been very helpful in my spiritual life to be able to hear the prayers of the Mass in English. So often an exact phrasing of an opening prayer or a collect or communion antiphon will strike me. If these were prayed in Latin, there would be no way for the same effect to happen. I know a person could follow along in English in the Missal when the Mass was always in Latin, but I feel very blessed that I have lived in a time where the prayers of the Mass could be celebrated in a language that I understand so well. Sometimes a priest will choose a special preface that is fitting for a Mass, and if I were not able to hear the prayer in English I could not even follow along in the Missal since he chose the preface just for that day. The various Eucharistic prayers which are permitted are also very beautiful in addition to the Roman Canon and have deep roots in the early history of the Church, I'm quite sure.
The Latin Mass is a beautiful means for people from all the world to celebrate Mass together and participate in it, but I am quite sure that if people were prepared correctly with prayer, knowledge of doctrine and Scripture, the Mass in the vernacular will bear much more fruit spiritually in the lives of the faithful. If this were not so, the Holy Spirit would not have led the Fathers of Vatican Council II as He did to permit the Mass to be prayed in the vernacular. I love praying the Mass and the Office in English because I have learned so much more about my faith from the prayers and God has taught many beautiful things to my soul because I could understand the prayers as I offered to Him the most powerful prayers of the Church.
Because I have found such blessings from this, I am just wondering why there is such a strong attraction among many for Latin.

I will get as far as I can with this in the time that I have right now. I pray the moderators allow me to come back and finish it if I don't.

Speaking as one who runs support groups similar to Phatmass for those discerning vocations, I've seen the majority of them attracted to charisms who retained the habit, are faithful to Rome, and who have SOME Latin in their religious practices.

However, that being said, I'm starting to see more discerners coming my direction who are attracted to the Latin Mass.

I also run a support group for former nuns, and they have all said that the change of the Mass into English was the deathknell for their community. First the Mass was changed, then the habit, then community life went out the window, and they left.

A (great) majority of those who left would be willing to come back to religious life in a Latin Mass community if their age wasn't getting in the way.

I entered the church at 16, before I knew a word of Latin, or had even seen a Latin Mass. I've been a "Traddie" for 13 years now, and I can give the credit to a friend for "converting" me. Hubby, the babies, and I started attending the two Latin Masses available to us in the Birmingham, AL, area, and when I walked out of the first one, I felt as if I hadn't been to Mass at all in the previous years. I understood the reason Catholic schools taught Latin was so the students could have a greater appreciation for the liturgy, and the focus on the SACRIFICE of Calvary--instead of filling our stomachs "at the table"--was the germinating seed for so many vocations.

I can't help but start thinking of menu planning when I'm at Mass now. "At the table" being repeated so often, and it reminds me of how hungry I am.

One thing that disturbs me about the discussion of vocations is the seeming disregard for the Source itself (in a way). All vocations are a gift from God, and the graces come from Mary. She and Jesus call souls to particular communities--those who live their Rules, and are faithful to Rome. If the Latin Mass communities are receiving so many vocations, is this not an indication of what Heaven wants?

Latin, for me, is a Love Language between God and His People. When two people are in love, they often create a language all to themselves--sounds, whimpers, or whatever. Have we not observed immigrants who banter in their native tongue with their family, yet struggle with English with others? Latin "sends" me during prayer, and I often get lost in God. I feel like the conversation is truly between me and Him. The Latin also sends the message to visitors that what's going on is "not of this world," and should not be treated with vulgarity or profaned.

Having been exposed to English all day and night, I prefer to pray in Latin as it forces me to pay attention to the task at hand. St. Francis de Sales, a post-Reformation Dr of the Church, said that praying in Latin was more devotional for us, but to have a vernacular translation at hand so we can see what we're talking about.

My 2 cents.

Blessings,
Gemma

I was in jr.high/high school when the Mass was undergoing the transition to the vernacular. Perhaps because our priests in western PA were careful about retaining reverence as we went through the changes, I didn't experience any sense of the liturgy being diminished at all. All of the components of today's Eucharists can be engaged with full devotion and reverence if both the celebrant and the worshipers follow through with the appropriate attitude toward the Mass. And in retrospect, people may have appeared to be more reverent before the changes to the Mass, but one could wonder if they were really engaged in the Eucharist. One of my grandmothers would unfailingly say a full rosary and go through a couple of devotional pamphlets during Mass, and she was not unusual in the parish for doing this, back in the day.
I absolutely love many of the ancient hymns in Latin, and wish that we would use them more in public worship and devotions, but I don't need to hear Mass in Latin to fully experience what God has done for us. I'm glad if it helps more people retain the sense of the sacred, but I'll stick with the post V2 Mass done appropriately.

There is much to be learnt in acquiring other languages, and to be perfectly frank, most Anglophones - Brits and Americans are the worst at this - just don't try hard enough. They are so wrapped up in their own goings-on, their own country's affairs, their own cultures, that they haven't a hope of opening their minds to learning where the nearest international border even is, let alone the issues that might be affecting people there. This phenomenon is to be seen everywhere, especially on the internet, and PM and VS are by no means exempt. It's one of the disadvantages of the internet being so dominated by Americans.

I grew up with the latin Mass and am so happy that we it was changed to the liturgy we have today. As a child I struggled to say those strange words, never understood a word I was saying. As an adult I certainly have an appreciation for certain latin prayers....Salve Regina, Tantum Ergo etc, but I never want to see a return to that Mass of old. I felt it was very cold and very impersonal. Some of today's youth seem to have an interest in it, and that is fine. I know the majority of people in my parish would not welcome it. I am not sure it will unify things but further divide Catholics. Intersting discussion though

36.1. Particular law remaining in force, the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites.

54....steps should be taken so that the faithful may also be able to say or to sing together in Latin those parts of the Ordinary of the Mass which pertain to them.

Sacrosanctum Concilium (Vatican II Document)

None of the above observations should cast doubt upon the importance of such large-scale liturgies. I am thinking here particularly of celebrations at international gatherings, which nowadays are held with greater frequency. The most should be made of these occasions. In order to express more clearly the unity and universality of the Church, I wish to endorse the proposal made by the Synod of Bishops, in harmony with the directives of the Second Vatican Council, (182) that, with the exception of the readings, the homily and the prayer of the faithful, it is fitting that such liturgies be celebrated in Latin. Similarly, the better-known prayers (183) of the Church's tradition should be recited in Latin and, if possible, selections of Gregorian chant should be sung.

Speaking more generally, I ask that future priests, from their time in the seminary, receive the preparation needed to understand and to celebrate Mass in Latin, and also to use Latin texts and execute Gregorian chant; nor should we forget that the faithful can be taught to recite the more common prayers in Latin, and also to sing parts of the liturgy to Gregorian chant. (184)

(Sacramentum Caritatis, 62) - Recent Document by Pope Benedict XVI

Funny thing is that we say this about Europeans!
I've been more Internationally attuned since I entered the MONASTERY than before I entered! Again, it's because I belong to an international Order and we get to know OP's from all over the world. This became very obvious to me when I was asked to attend the International Dominican Family Assembly in the Philippines, to represent the nuns of the US (along with 2 other nuns) in 2000. The 15 nuns there had no problem catching up on old contacts, making news, finding out what's going on back "home" --whereever that was for the other person. On the other hand many of the active Dominican Sisters were AMAZED at the nuns and how we seem to know friars and nuns from all over the world.

ON TOPIC:

I didn't really know Latin growing up and I had NO problem. The Mass in whatever language because it IS the Mass and something Divine and not human can convey the reality of the Mystery of Calvary and the mystery of inner life of God being given to us through the Body and Blood of Christ no matter if we understand the language or not. It wouldn't be any different if you were going to a parish that was say, Polish, and you didn't know a word. It could be Latin for all you know! Besides, the Church Latin vocabulary isn't very extensive. After awhile you figure it out.

Why is the Internet so "dominated" by Americans? And is it? Maybe it's just because initiative is part of our cultural heritage?

PS WHEN IS YOUR ASPIRANCY?

In case some are curious I should like to make a couple of remarks about my own use of Latin as a language of devotion. For the record I am not suggesting that there is anything wrong or cheap about vernacular prayer. On the contrary there are at least as many points that could be made on the fittingness of vernacular prayer. This is not a Latin vs. vernacular reflection, am I simply attempted to share a few of the many reasons why I have found Latin to be a spiritually enriching language in my prayer life. And yes, this is only a few of the reasons, I must pick up my wife so I don’t have time to carry on ad infinitum.

The pious incorporation of Latin into one’s spiritual life creates a kind of sacred space in which prayer and devotion can be offered to God in a manner of speech which transcends the ordinary and earthly. Certainly the prayer of the heart is higher than vocal prayer, but the Catholic spiritual life necessarily involves more than strictly interior contemplative prayer. The most obvious example would be communal prayer (such a liturgy), but even apart from this there are devotional practices which are highly encouraged (i.e., the rosary) which ought to ideally engage the body. In the case of the rosary we have a primacy of the heart but this is coupled with the active meditation on the mysteries, the uttering of the words, and even the fingers on the beads.

I like to compare the devotional use of Latin in private prayer with the use of Hebrew among Jews as a sacred language of prayer (something which was a part of the Judaism that Christ Himself practiced and fulfilled).
As I have experienced it, devotional Latin has a way of making present the historical patrimony of the Roman Church. As the baptized parlance of the historical Church, the language of Her theology and dogma, the language of Her Liturgy down through the ages, the devotional language of innumerable saints, I find it impossible to make utterance to God in this language without an immediate awareness of the dignity and sanctity of that which I am doing as well as of the Communion of Saints in our midst.

I don’t pray exclusively in Latin, but there are times when it strikes me as meet and just, from a devotional point of view—and I certainly advocate the rosary in Latin.
It is not so much this way in America, but in many cultures there is an explicitly formal way of speaking to persons (typically elders or superiors) which indicates the respect that is their due. In many cases we find distinct vocabulary and linguistic rules which are employed to denote respect. I would draw another analogy here with regards to devotional Latin prayer. I have experienced first hand (albeit through ignorance) how a lack of sensitivity to such things can result in significant offense. This is perhaps a flat analogy for Americans (indeed many modern westerners) since we are so egalitarian and tend to have little appreciation, or even awareness, of such things. I witness examples of this more or less every time I dine at an authentic Japanese restaurant in this country. I suppose that the obvious objections to this analogy would perhaps resemble those “arguments” made by some Catholics against kneeling at Mass, ornate Churches and sacred music.

Of course my “formal speech” analogy could be responded to by saying that it is enough to simply avoid disrespectful or vulgar speech according to the norms of one’s language and culture. While I would say that this is true enough, I would also clarify that this analogy was not intended as an argument for Latin prayer, so much as an allusion to one of its benefits. By default the use of Latin in prayer disposes one toward reverential awareness and the apprehension of the sacred—in my experience at least. I am sure that this devotion is not for everyone, but I am also sure that there is much to be discovered in this practice and much benefit that could be reaped by a great many people. It seems like something worth mentioning at the very least.

I thought of an analogy which may sum up my previous post.
Continuing with the sacred space motif (of my previous post) one might say that Latin prayer is like praying in a sublime church while kneeling, we might then describe vernacular prayer as the prayers that one utters throughout the day in the normal setting of one’s life. According to this picture then it would seem that there are times in prayer which in a sense indicate the immanence of God in our daily life and deeds, and then there are times in prayer which acknowledge and encounter God in His transcendence and lofty majesty. I would suggest that this scenario describes, by way of a picture, two aspects of a full spirituality and that the devotional use of Latin can be a most fitting and profitable aid in cultivating and expressing this transcendent aspect of intimacy with God. I am of course speaking in a metaphorical way; the life of prayer is not so static.

So many people seem to be drawn to communities where Mass or the Divine Office will be prayed in Latin. I find this very interesting because it is not possible to understand Latin to the extent that we understand our native language. It has been very helpful in my spiritual life to be able to hear the prayers of the Mass in English....

Peace,

People mistakenly believe the difference between the Traditional Latin Mass and the Novus Ordo is a matter of language, as if the Novus Ordo missal is simply and English translation of the Tridentine missal (it's not.) Compare the two yourself, and consider the differences:

http://www.latin-mass-society.org/missals.htm

Now Latin is liturgically significant for (at least) three reasons. First of all, it has been used in the liturgy for over 1500 years by Popes, Fathers, Doctors, Saints, and lay faithful, and thus deserves our respect. Secondly, it adds to the ancient and mysterious character of the liturgy. Thirdly, being that it is no longer used, and can't be claimed by any particular race or culture, it adds to our catholicity (that is, universal character of the Church).

Those are my two cents on why we care about Latin.

I grew up with the latin Mass and am so happy that we it was changed to the liturgy we have today. As a child I struggled to say those strange words, never understood a word I was saying. As an adult I certainly have an appreciation for certain latin prayers....Salve Regina, Tantum Ergo etc, but I never want to see a return to that Mass of old. I felt it was very cold and very impersonal. Some of today's youth seem to have an interest in it, and that is fine. I know the majority of people in my parish would not welcome it. I am not sure it will unify things but further divide Catholics. Intersting discussion though

I guess I'm in the minority when I say that I prefer the Mass in the vernacular -- I visited one community that had mass said in latin and it completely turned me off (if sometimes my mind wanders in the vernacular, in latin I completely tuned out).

That being said I do say that I believe the English translation is a bit off ... I assume that the Spanish translation is closer to the Latin, and the two have their differences.

I think I have to concur with alicemary -- true it may be our opinions; but then again I'm not against Mass being said in Latin. I'd be against not giving me the option to go to Mass in the vernacular. I'd also agree that I think that most who attend Mass at the parishes I go to will prefer the vernacular.

I also think about those who cannot read or write their own language -- or even those who do at a functional level; I'd think that the vernacular would be better. Those who are unable to read, or have a low level of reading capability, won't be able to simply pick up a Latin/Vernacular language missal and follow along.

One reason the vernacular was brought into the picture is because the Church lost the ability and willingness to teach Latin to its members. As a result, many people who attended mass would simply pray a vernacular rosary so they could feel they were making a contribution. I know a lot of the folks from the WWII Generation who suffered with this problem. The move toward the vernacular was a move to incorporate these folks back into the mass. The big problem is that the wording of the liturgical prayers were truncated, which lessened the poetic, spiritual and theological meaning they were originally meant to convey. I personally prefer the Tridentine mass, but everyone I've taken to that mass has either rejected it because it is so difficult to understand, or had to go for at least 3 months before they could learn to appreciate its depth. Most simply can't understand it. I would like to see a direct translation of the Tridentine Missal into the vernacular. Such a move would bring the best of both worlds to the altar. I also fully support the preservation of the Tridentine mass for those who prefer it -- preservation without limitation.

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I think part of it is just the tradition, too. It's cool (and that's an understatement), to be praying the exact same words that monks and nuns have been praying the last two thousand years. Now that, is unity!

Agreed except that I prefer the existence of two uses or forms of the Roman Rite (as currently exists thanks to the moto proprio). An ideal situation in my mind would be reverent and liturgically correct forma ordinaria liturgies (which means some Latin per Sacrosanctum Concilium) as the norm with forma extraordinaria masses on special days or even most Sundays. It would be something like the high Mass/low Mass scenario.
I think this way people would be able to have the mostly vernacular Liturgies and the accessibility of the forma ordinaria and sort of be weaned into the forma extraordinaria for more solemn occassions. It seems like the participation criticisms apply mostly to the old low Mass anyway so that problem would be solved (even though I love my low Masses).

What do you think?

I agree that praying in Latin might give some a sense of unity with those who have gone before us. Actually I found it quite moving to attend a Maronite Catholic Eucharist where many of the prayers were said in Aramaic. Now THAT is really connecting with the early Church!

People mistakenly believe the difference between the Traditional Latin Mass and the Novus Ordo is a matter of language, as if the Novus Ordo missal is simply and English translation of the Tridentine missal (it's not.) Compare the two yourself, and consider the differences:

http://www.latin-mass-society.org/missals.htm

Now Latin is liturgically significant for (at least) three reasons. First of all, it has been used in the liturgy for over 1500 years by Popes, Fathers, Doctors, Saints, and lay faithful, and thus deserves our respect. Secondly, it adds to the ancient and mysterious character of the liturgy. Thirdly, being that it is no longer used, and can't be claimed by any particular race or culture, it adds to our catholicity (that is, universal character of the Church).

Those are my two cents on why we care about Latin.

Agreed except that I prefer the existence of two uses or forms of the Roman Rite (as currently exists thanks to the moto proprio). An ideal situation in my mind would be reverent and liturgically correct forma ordinaria liturgies (which means some Latin per Sacrosanctum Concilium) as the norm with forma extraordinaria masses on special days or even most Sundays. It would be something like the high Mass/low Mass scenario.

Thank you all for your thoughts. It seems whatever brings us to God is most important and blessed as long as it is in obedience and holiness. ...but the most important thing is that at every Mass we offer ourselves completely with Jesus to the Father so that He may fill us with His Holy Spirit and transform us into His image and so that we may bring the whole world to know and love and serve Him in this life and be happy with Him in heaven.

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According to the Pope's head exorcist, "The Devil fears Latin". That's reason enough for me.

"What does Mother Angelica think about the Tridentine Mass, approved by Pope Benedict?"

Sr. Mary Catherine answered:

"Well the day she heard about it, she was really excited. If she could have jumped, she would have been jumping for joy. Mother even before her stroke, I remember her commenting that, that would come back, because it's more contemplative. It's a beautiful Mass. The mass we have now is beautiful, but you know, I heard this exorcist-priest tell me once that the devil hates Latin and that's why they always exorcise in Latin. And if the devil hates it, we need to go back to it."

Latin was the perfect language for the Mass. It's the language of the Church, which allows us to pray a verbal prayer without distraction. See, the purpose of the Mass is to pray and to be associated with the crucifixion and with that glorious banquet that we partake of in Holy Communion. He is there. But so much is spoiled in the vernacular.

During the Latin Mass you had the missal if you wanted to follow it in English. It was almost mystical. It gave you an awareness of heaven, of the awesome humility of God who manifests Himself in the guise of bread and wine. The love that He had for us. His desire to remain with us, is simply awesome. You could concentrate on that love, because you weren't distracted by your own language. You could go anywhere in the world and you always knew what was going on. It was contemplative because as the Mass was going on you could close your eyes and visualize what really happened. You could feel it. You could look to the east and realize that God had come and was really present. The way it is today with the priest facing the people, it's something between the people and the priest. Too often it's just some kind of get-together, and Jesus is all but forgotten.