I was wondering if any of the women/girls here had changed the way they dressed after finding that they had a vocation. Did you become more modest, and, if so, how? I've started to become really careful, especially since a monsignor I really respect said that it's best for girls and women to wear:

skirts or dresses that cover the knees

shirts that reach the elbow and cover our chests

generally looss-fitting clothing

non-transparent clothing

clothes that cover the mid-drif

He made sure that I knew that women who wear short-sleeved shirts are not being immodest, but that it's meritorious to wear longer shirts.

Just curious to see what y'all thought!

Your sister in Christ,

Margaret

Funny that you should post this. I have been seriously thinking about my dress code lately. I am often to be seen in traditional Arabic dress, which is very modest, but as I only wear it for cultural reasons I will go from wearing a jilbab on Wednesday to a pair of shorts and a T-shirt on Thursday, depending on where I'm going. I am considering letting go of my shorts and just wearing three-quarter-length trousers in summer. I think the decision was already made, subconsciously, quite some time ago - I haven't worn my shorts in several weeks now. I will wait until my parents are more accepting of my convictions, and then quietly take them to the charity shop.

My shorts, not my parents.

Haha

Hehe! You're funny. I'm so glad that my post was helpful! I hope you don't mind my asking, but did you used to be Muslim?

Have you found it a great sacrifice to give up fashion for modest dress? I've found it difficult, because it seems that almost the only places to find clothing that really covers you up is at a store catering to women aged 30 and above. (I'm only 18!) It's a great way to get used to sacrificing one's vanity as preparation for religious life! Also, there's a great beauty in dressing as Our Lady would dress, don't you think?

Oh, and here is a link to a company that sells modest clothing:

Modest Apparel USA

Also, here are two books written by an author mentioned in a Newsweek article on girls and modesty:

Girls Gone Mild

A Return To Modesty

I haven't read either book, so I can't give it a personal recommendation, but they looked pretty good.

Her website is Modesty Zone

You don't have to give up fashion for modest dress

I'm about medium-modest, I think. My basic thought is "if I would be ashamed to wear it in church, there's no sense in wearing it at all" I wear fitted t-shirts, but they're not tight. I've never seen any sense in uncovering my mid-riff, fortunately, so that's not a problem and deep plunging necklines are also not really my thing.

Skirts can be a problem since I have a 38" inseam (and that's not a typo ). Two of my favourites are exactly knee-length, although I wish they were a couple of inches longer.

All these things you can get in colours that are in fashion. Most of my friends don't even know that I take care to look modest!

Oh, and do you know that it's actually quite wonderful to wear ankle-length skirts? You can just flop down in the grass or curl up on a train seat and you don't have to give a thought to what's showing and what's not

I, too love ankle-length skirts! I'm actually quite petite, so if a skirt is made long, it is always long on me! (I'm only 5 feet 2 inches if I stand up straight!)

Do you shop online? If you do, can you give me some websites that sell modest clothing? I'm having a little trouble finding them.

Thanks so much!

Yours in Christ,

Margaret

I agree with Venite - you do not need to give up fashion in the process of being modest. I think that dressing modestly does not mean wearing a potato sack (or nothing but shapeless jumpers).

The purpose of modesty is to show dignity to the human body, to our maleness or femaleness.

I think that short sleeves are perfectly fine, but I do believe is covering cleavage, mids, and having skirts that go to my knees. I do not only wear skirts, though (although I prefer them).

There is nothing wrong with having clothing with a shape, so long as it is not so tight that it reveals more than it conceals!

When I dress modestly I am treated with more respect, and as someone who considers herself a Catholic woman who works actively against the American concept of what it means to be a woman (to be a "thing" to be owned or pined after), by dressing with dignity I am asserting my beinghood, not my thinghood.

It is possible to find modest clothing in stores, and it does not hurt to learn how to sew so you can make adjustments! Also having shells or camis are great for "filling in" a somewhat too short neckline on an otherwise wonderful shirt! lol.

I think the the trends are starting to slowly move to a more modest look.

Here is a website with many links of different modest clothing stores.

LINK

I have not really changed the way I dress, because my parents have always insistead that I dress modestly. I prefer skirts, but wear jeans a lot too. I have a ton of low cut shirts, but I wear tank tops under them, so it is not a problem

I like those priest's guidelines. They are similar to my own, but I think it's important not to give everyone a black and white. It should come natural to the female sex to cover the parts of their body that are for their husbands or God alone (I don't need to make a list of those items : ). That said, this is how I personally dress: I try to dress as appropriately for the situation as I can. I don't wear anything above the knee (at least, I try not to). But that's not too hard right now because the long shorts and capris are selling well. I don't wear pants to Mass. My favorite piece of clothing is a Levis ankle-length blue jean skirt And I opt for button-up blouses or t-shirts, because I don't have to worry about anything low-cut with those. I don't wear sleeveless clothing either.

But I think it's important to observe situations appropriately. For example, you would not dress for Mass like you would dress for working out. You would not wear a bathing suit to the grocery store, but a bathing suit can be modest (I have my own guidelines... I wear a one-piece with shorts), but only in a place where you need to be wearing it.

There should be a sense of the sacred and mysterious when it comes to the female body. We can be likened to the ark of the covenant, having the potentiality to bear life within us. Even if we never do, physically, we always have that potentiality, and that makes our bodies very privileged. We should reverence that privilege (and so should men, but we have to be the ones who promote reverence by the way we dress and by our actions). It is a gift from God and modesty is what safeguards it for Him, and potentially for a husband.

I love this thread

Personally I'd like it best if modest dress wasn't called modest dress anymore - but just dress

I think Totus Tuus said it really well.

But - what about men? When do they dress modest? Is it even necessary, for them? Is it about covering up, or more about style?

I don't know the best argument or explanation for this question. One factor is that women are not as visually-stimulated as men are, so they can wear less without being an occasion to sin for women. There are other factors that go into the modesty of men, but the arguments I've heard usually include admonishing men to always examine their motives for the way they dress...

I think men should dress modestly as well. It's tacky when they don't. Whenever I see guys strolling around the town centre without a shirt on, clearly showing off their muscles or their lurid tattoos, I am reminded of those red-bottomed baboons who try to attract life partners by the size and colour of their backsides. (And yes, I used 'that' for the guys and 'who' for the baboons deliberately. The baboons can't help being exhibitionists; it's the way God made them.)



Not all Arabs are Muslims - there is a very sizeable number of Christian Arabs. As it happens, I'm neither. I'm an English girl who grew up in Saudi Arabia. It is my 'second culture', and as I spent so long there it often feels more real than my first. This is why I dress Arab or sometimes Pakistani-style - those are the clothes I feel most comfortable with.

I never formally took my shahada (the Muslim proclamation of faith that needs to be said in front of at least two witnesses to be binding) but I prayed and practised as a Muslim for quite a long time without actually making a formal conversion. A quiet belief that Jesus was more than al-Qur'an made Him out to be kept me back from that last step.

Onto the subject of fashion, I have never felt like I was making a sacrifice at all. Here is an example of the kind of clothes I wear:



An early Christmas party. I am the girl in green. (The long scarf hanging from my left shoulder can be opened up and used as a cross between a headscarf and a cloak if I need it.)

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' date='Aug 3 2007, 09:10 AM' post='1348410']
I think men should dress modestly as well. It's tacky when they don't. Whenever I see guys strolling around the town centre without a shirt on, clearly showing off their muscles or their lurid tattoos, I am reminded of those red-bottomed baboons who try to attract life partners by the size and colour of their backsides. (And yes, I used 'that' for the guys and 'who' for the baboons deliberately. The baboons can't help being exhibitionists; it's the way God made them.)

I agree with you. I am a member of the "that" sex. And Modesty is the best policy for me. I do have a couple of brothers who would think differently however. Not all tattos are bad, I have one of the trinity rings on my calf. I am a seminarian as well. I think men should always keep their pants above the backsides, their boxers or whatever they are wearing, should be covered by their pants, shorts, or whatever. Men should also, if they are dating, ask their girlfriend to change, if shes not "dressed" the right way,(that was for the one who said they wished it to be called dress, rather than modestly dressed.) So the street goes both ways on the modesty issue. And yes, men are more tempted to look ad fall to temptaion! Its our baboon like nature. Well some men anyway, there are still a few gentleman out there. Not many, but some.

Peace to you all,

Adam

Tee hee, thank you

If I ever got a tattoo it'd be of the Trinity rings. Gotta love those!

I actually had a boyfriend who told me I shouldn't even think of wearing more revealing clothes! He knew I'd be uncomfortable in them, and thought they didn't suit my personality. So yay to those boyfriends.

Also, I completely agree with CA on the guys' part - there is a reason why underwear is underwear, and I can get really uncomfortable when people aren't even wearing shirts in public. (By the way, that dress is fabulous.)

Cath Anon, that is a beautiful outfit!!!

I wasn't talking about men in general in my post. Just the tattooed guys I see without shirts in the town centre. I'm sorry if it wasn't clear enough. I just think it's undignified at best to go to the high street and the shops without a shirt, especially in the height of summer when the shops are crowded and you are all sweaty. But the baboons of the town seem to think this is attractive to ladies.

I was trying to be sarcastic, make a joke of the "that Sex" comment. And Your right, those guys are baboons. No apologies necessary

Yes, my thoughts are much of what you said. I am only 17...and love fashion! I'm not a freak about it or anything, but I love to wear bright colors like, pink, blue, green and red. I make sure all of my skirts are below the knee, but the shirts are hard. I have to buy a cami for everything it seems!! and even with those, I have to pull them up sometimes. I don't wear shorts that are above the knee either. But, I try to be as modest as I can. I also think, would I wear this to mass? And if not, I don't buy it. (Except for pants and things like that...I don't wear pants to Mass.)

I don't have a figure good enough to wear camis and I'm too old anyway, so I wear a short sleeved tee with a crew or shallow scoop neck or boat neck, one of my favorites, or square neck, ditto, with an long sleeved open shirt hanging out . It's a good look and forgiving for the not so slender midriff. Also modest. Usually the tee is black with a bright shirt. The "Marie" look (Raymond).

wow...haha! i LOVE that show!!!

As for men and modesty, I do think that there is a certain dignity in which they should dress, even in regards to style. I think modesty for men comes a lot more with appropriateness of the occasion. As was said earlier in the posts, modesty is dressing with the dignity of a human body. It is not undignifying to where carharts when painting a house, but to where painted carharts to mass, or to a wedding would be what I would consider immodest.

Also definitely with the comment on undergarments like boxers, no way should they be showing. Pants shouldn't be worn low, and t-shirts shouldn't be too tight (muscle shirts). Shorts still shouldn't really be short. Even though the upper leg of a man may not be as attractive, it still shouldn't be revealed. Basically the same dress applies to men as it does women, the difference is men don't usually have a hard time adhearing to the form of their body, and therefore clothing is VERY EASILY accesable for men. Even those who may not try to dress modest, are still dressed with a certain dignity becuase it is much harder to buy inappropriate clothes as a male (in my opinion).

I'm a strong supporter of slacks (dress pants), button shirts (or at least polo's), and sweaters. In the summer, dress shorts and short sleeve button shirts! Although I don't strictly adhere to what I support myself. I don't have any short sleeve button shirts, and I'll often wear jeans (lately) to my desk job than dress pants. A lot of it is I've only had this conviction for a few months, and financially trying to go to college and buy more clothes doesn't work too well. I have a lot of nice shirts and sweaters come fall and winter, but summer is still difficult. I need a couple more pairs of slacks too, or at least to do my wash more often!

Well I kinda rambled, and now I should go back to work. Adios!

I disagree a bit here. The body is something, as God's handiwork, to be celebrated and known in a proper context. To insist that the body be shrouded in formless robes is to deny the beauty of God's creation. Should muscular men shroud their arms or buttocks because women may find them potentially attractive or rousing?

This doesn't mean that women should run around immodestly, but to pretend the female form doesn't exist because it may arouse men is silliness. We are created with sexual energy (to, uh, make more of us....) and it must be kept in check just like every other human inclination (industriousness, recreation, appetite). Don't pretend you're breasts aren't there...trust me, every single person on the street knows they exist.

I prefer a race of people with two genders that are obvious and beautiful, and not neutered.

To me it doesn't seem like you disagree - modest does not have to equal formless (although the reverse is probably true ). Respecting your body doesn't mean ignoring it! You can wear clothes that flatter you, but don't show off particular attributes. Especially if some people would take any chance to mentally reduce you to those attributes. I'm not saying I can or should make them not do that - just that I'm surely not going to help them

Hey CA, that's an incredible story about your growing up in Saudi Arabia! Thanks for sharing! And yes, that's such a beautiful dress!!!

Yeah, when I began discerning, I stopped wear shorts, and generally began wearing more dressed up clothes, though not very dressy - just whatever I have - on a daily basis, since I would usually go to daily Mass. And nowadays I pretty much always wear some light long-sleeved cardigan when I'm in church - though the a/c at my parish really requires that anyway!

Thanks for all the great comments!

C.A., your dress is so feminine and pretty! That's so interesting about your having lived in Saudi Arabia.

Thanks so much to Philosobrat for that great website! I now can't believe how many options there are out there for women and girls trying to dress modestly.

Btw, I've often wondered about bathing suits and modesty (for men and women). Why is it okay to wear bathing suits (which don't leave much to the imagination---they're so tight and don't cover one's legs, etc.) at the beach, but it's not proper in any other context. It's not as if the men at the beach suddenly stop checking girls out as soon as they hit the sand. I actually heard Mother Angelica from EWTN say she didn't like bathing suits b/c they weren't modest.

I don't know if anybody's heard about it, but I like the idea of the "Pink Beach" in Italy---absolutely no men allowed! From what I understand, the Italian women got so fed up with the men chasing after them and gawking at them, that they set up this beach that's all for women and girls. They should do something like that in America. LOL

Please understand that I'm not judging anybody here, just giving my two cents.

First off, I never said anything about "formless robes". That's from your own imagination. In fact, I wasn't talking at all about what type of styles should be worn. I was talking about what should be covered up. I also commented that those things are reserved for God and the spouse. Those parts of the body ARE celebrated by the way God uses them and allows us to use them. But I don't think you'd disagree, for example, that women should go around "celebrating" their wombs in front of men who aren't their husbands. Again, I never said anything about formlessness... that's totally out of the topic I was addressing



EXACTLY. Thank you

Must be the heat and the wine....and the brandy.....and the scotch....

My gosh, I drink like a priest!

My clothing did not really change much. The only thing I pay attention to now is that I do cover my cleavage (which I did most of the time anyway even before). The other thing is that I go to church almost every day now and therefore also cover my shoulders and my knees. On the rare occasions I cannot attend Holy Mass one day and it is really hot outside, it happens that I wear only a tank top or a skirt that ends just above my knees, but in comparison with other girls around, even that is kind of "modest". And I do wear really tight T-shirts, even to church, and I do prefer them to the loose ones. You can see one I really like here: My favorite T-shirt

P.S.: I, too, love ankle-length skirts!

Oh my! Is that... Is that... a European Catholic webshop? *drops over* I want that shirt!

Yes, it is. A German one to be accurate.

Natürlich, natürlich

Gee, I was just thinking about this and up pops your post. I am only just able to post my response after two pages of posts! I see a couple here, but could you name some clothing stores that deal with strictly modest clothing? Your favorites I mean? That would help! Especially stores that sell modest pants. I know skirts are usually the modest way to go to cover the lower half, but sometimes you can't wear them like in my kind of work, a skirt or dress would be at times immodest and even dangerous. So any suggestions?
Modesty means to cover, but not smother (I guess that might be the right word - it rhymes anyway! ) You are to cover your body so as not to be a source of temptation to others or yourself. And I mean yourself by being frivolous, worried about your looks, giving into peer pressure, etc. You are also God's daughter (& son) so dress neatly and properly. Not with frumpy pants or oversized shirts or bellowing dresses and the same goes with tight pants, low necklines, short/tight shirts, short skirts, sheer clothing, and so on. How important is it for you to dress and act as modestly as possible? Is it a virtue that is different for everyone or like the rest of the virtues there is only one way to develop the good habit?

Since you've wondered about changing to more modest dress during discernment have you also been more conscious of staying (or becoming) fit? Jesus healed both the physically and spiritually ill. What do you do to keep both in balance?
And another thing comes to mind. What do you think about makeup? Is makeup fine to use? If so, how much? In my opinion (although I don't wear any - it would be a waste of time for me in my work) makeup is fine as long as it enhances and doesn't cover or turn one into these black-eyed, purple lip zombies I've seen lately. (I just don't know why that do that!) Anyways, I really would like any thoughts you might have about this.

Thank you!
Bernadette

Hey, Bernadette!

I don't know how old you are, or what kinds of clothes you like to wear, but here is a website that sells more modest pants for people in their teens or twenties:

Gap For some reason, this season Gap has some more modest pants.

I don't know how you feel about shorts, but this Catholic website has long, loose shorts for girls and teens: Up Stream Girl They also have skirts, shirts, and dresses---the non-billowy type.

Here is a list of websites that sell women's pants. Since these sites are aimed at pleasing women in over 30, the clothes are a ton more modest than what you'll find at teen stores. A lot of these clothes are not stylish, but maybe that doesn't bother you.

Talbots

L.L. Bean

Eddie Bauer

Land's End

Well, you wanted to know what people thought about fitness and makeup. I think that fitness is wonderful, since it keeps us healthy. What can be a problem is when the desire to be physically in shape leads to a wish for physical perfection---The Cult of the Body. I'm sure you know that, though. An added benefit to being physically fit is having the energy to clean those monastery or convents!

As far as makeup goes, I don't think it's a good idea. This might sound radical, but I think that makeup should be reserved for people who have scar tissue or actual deformities. It seems so artificial to try and fix what isn't broken. Of course I'm not saying that wearing makeup offends God! I just think it's better to be natural and real, i.e., makeup free.

I hope that helped! I'm sure others will give you some great answers to your questions!

Blessings to you,

Margaret

Well, I kind of have adventures when I go shopping, to find modest clothing in regular stores. It can be frustrating at times, but I don't always like the styles at "strictly modest" stores. Some seasons it's really easy to find modest clothing at regular stores, but other seasons you really do have to search hard.

I have similar experiences to Lauren. Most of my clothes come from normal shops. When I decided that I wanted to dress more modestly and that spaghetti straps weren't going to cut it, I just starting wearing light jackets over the top or accessorising with my old Saudi headscarves - some of them make absolutely brilliant shawls. Nice and swishy. I think everybody should have at least one huge scarf or shawl with a couple of pretty brooches for pinning. Mine are very versatile - they serve as headcoverings for Mass, blankets for when I am on the train, wraps when I'm cold, extra shopping bags (this is one of their more creative uses and it makes me look a little too like Dick Whittington for my liking), picnic blankets...the list goes on.

I'm not sure if this link was posted yet, but here's a page on Colleen Hammond's (the one who wrote, Dressing with Dignity) site, that my sister had up the other day, with a bunch of resources for finding modest clothing: http://www.colleenhammond.com/resources.html

Are any of these - or other? - links good for getting the typical live-in, retreat or postulant wear like - black stockings, long (mid-shin) black or brown jumpers, skirts, etc and white long-sleeved or 3/4 sleeve blouses? There are some overseas religious orders that don't have postulant habits and they ask you to bring these items and others. I have seen the long jumpers but in either a tacky print with flowers and such or in denim or in corduroy. Any links, suggestions?

I am still checking out the links from MargaretClare and others but I thought I'd post this in case some others who had live-ins and such got these items somewhere I hadn't found yet. Any suggestions or other links? Often the modest clothing women would wear to work or everyday is too "fancy" for a live-in or a postulant every day wear in an order. Thanks.

OK not to open a huge can of worms but that book is completely and totally plagiarized. It's pretty sad.

I think most people make their own jumpers when the community doesn't provide them, but I'm sure you could find something. I don't know how well this would go over, but you could always try and contact communities that have black or brown jumpers to buy one from them that is not being used or make one according to your measurements. Seamstresses in monasteries can usually whip those out in a jiffy because they have so much practice.

In addition to Totus Tuus' comments, many communities have closets with these outfits. I know some women who've entered communities and have received these hand-me-downs. I would imagine that it depends largely on the community, of course. But in an interest of poverty, I would have to think that most places wouldn't require you make a lot of changes to your wardrobe in order to enter! (Other than get rid of most of your clothes )

If I was a girl looking into "modest clothing" and found those sites, I'd give up!


I <3 that!


The same is true of my parish!



My response to this thread:
My dress did change when I began to discern religious life. I think there was something inside of me all along that wanted to be more modest (and I had flirted around with a few styles of dress before that were more modest) but discernment gave me that "excuse". I started wearing tons of long skirts (floor length) and cardigans. I generally kept my hair up to avoid distraction. I wore less makeup though still enough to be "presentable". I'm not a fan of throwing yourself away just because you are discerning. I believe you should dress in a way which is modest but discreetly so. I don't think people should be able to tell that you are trying so hard. You should look presentable (put together) and mature. Light makeup is okay in my book, as is jewelry. When you make the leap into the convent, then you leave those things behind. But as long as we are in the world, we must make the effort to be respectably dressed.

For those of you who claim to not be able to find any modest clothing out there: there is modest clothing EVERYWHERE! I know we've had this discussion many times before and many times I have mentioned several stores that are sure to have something you both like and can wear modestly. Some of the stores I recommend with current examples:

Gap


(The last one would of course have a shirt under it to cover any exposed chest...)


Eddie Bauer

• This cute dress with a cardigan on top
• This skirt, perhaps, if it's your taste...
• Cable cardigan
• Another great cardigan

J.Crew

more from JCrew:



Ann Taylor Loft
(Images from this site can't be loaded here. Check it out though... lots of adorable cardigans and tops! They also have some nice pants.)

Banana Republic

more from banana republic:


pants are great (and look great) if you buy the right fit for you. low waist, high waist, wide leg, etc. never buy tapered! i luv a straight-line pant. it looks great on everyone and doesnt cling to the leg!

Chico's

more from chico's:


Talbots
Too many to choose! Check it out...

Dillard's, Macy's, and the like have a lot of clothes to choose from. Some of their clothes AREN'T modest, but some are! Don't judge a book by its cover. Find the pieces that meet your modesty criteria like you find the clothes that meet your color/size/shape criteria. It's not a foreign concept!

Good luck everyone!

http://www.orvis.com/store/product_choice....2534&bhcp=1

This is a black jumper dress from Orvis. It is wool flannel and about 160.00 (it might be too hot/expensive) but I thought I'd post the link just in case!

oh! i also wanted to mention that y'all should learn to sew (if you don't already have that knowledge/ability)! it's so simple and there are tons of great patterns. it's really easy to make floor length skirts that are not only cute (good material/pattern/color) but look good on you!

I just found a bunch of great links for Laudem which I sent to her privately. The Vermont Country Store and Orvis are both great sources.

I know every community is different, but most communities...when allowing a visitor...do prefer "plain" clothes, as in navy blues/blacks/whites and of course, the Carmelites! or Poor Clares! ... browns. It has been my experience that staying away from prints is a plus, as is tight clothing. I found tons of denim jumpers on the internet, and those are great to bring because often times you will be asked to help either with inside cleaning or gardening! Jumpers are really good because you can buy two (depending upon how long you are visiting) and then interchange them while changing your shirt underneath. And if you have a "work outfit" you should be fine; you will be able to travel lightly, not spend too much money and be clean each day.

I know one of the monastic communities I visited asked specifically to bring a long nightgown and robe, they didn't specify color, but if you are really thinking this is the direction you will go, it would be smart to just buy a white one since most of the communities ask that you bring one white nightgown (at least).

I know colors are pretty, but I must say that it has been my experience when visiting communities that wear a full habit and live a simple, traditional lifestyle, a bright color can be very shocking and distracting. It can feel really weird and uncomfortable to be at prayer with the nuns (all in their cowls) while you are in a bright red sweatshirt or dress. I'm sure you get the idea, and this is only my suggestion and personal observation.

Standards of Modesty in Dress

Imprimatur dated Sept. 24, 1956

"A dress cannot be called decent which is cut deeper than two fingers breadth under the pit of the throat; which does not cover the arms at least to the elbows; and scarcely reaches a bit beyond the knees. Furthermore, dresses of transparent materials are improper."

The Cardinal Vicar of Pius XII

This makes it easier for me. I think that what the Church considered modest then is modest now although I prefer longer skirts myself.