This is my first forum experience. I was in one of the new religious communities for women over in Italy for 11+ years and I had a bad experience to sum it up as it was extremely rigid. I left last Fall and returned to my home parish where I became Catholic in 1992. I still have an authentic desire for religious life so with encouragement from my spiritual director and friends I have begun to look around. I am very attracted to many aspects of the Dominican charism - either active or cloistered. I am 44 years old and this is a limit although I am not entering religious life for the first time at this age so it could be worse. I am dialoging for now with both a cloistered nun and an active sister (teaching or translating interest me but not elementary or high school so there are very few possibilities). Well here is praying that we each find where God wants us to be. Sophia

Welcome to PM, Sophia!

I'm Gemma, the coordinator of Cloister Outreach http://cloisters.tripod.com/ and we are about to make the foundation of a new community which will eventually be cloistered, the Reparatrix Society of Our Lady of the Cloister (RSOLC) http://cloisters.tripod.com/cloisterites/ They will be a renewal of the Society of Mary Reparatrix charism, along with prayer for primarily cloistered vocations, and the spirituality is three-fold--Salesian, Dominican, and Carmelite. We have a large number of aspirants for the foundation.

We also have a couple of aspirants for our proposed active charism, the Congregation of Charity of the Miraculous Medal, Servants of the Poor http://cloisters.tripod.com/charity/ This is a renewal of the Daughters of Charity charism, and will have a habit almost identical to theirs.

I also own the founders' forum yahoo group, which is by invitation only, and I'm sure the aspiring founders there would love to hear what you have to say.

Last, but not least, Cloister Outreach also offers the Nearly Nun Club yahoo group, which is for ex-nuns.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nearly_Nun_Club/

Again, welcome, and I hope I didn't overwhelm you.

Blessings,
Gemma

Welcome!

When I read your post, one Order came to mind. They are the community of women who work with the apostolate Opus Angelorum in Detroit. The priests who run Opus Angelorum are Augustinian Canons Regular and their Order has been entrusted by Rome with promoting and preserving devotion to the Holy Angels (just as Franciscans have been entrusted with the Christmas creche and Stations of the Cross, and Dominicans with the Holy Rosary). They are both active and contemplative. The sister I know who recently made her perpetual profession lived in Portugal for a few years during her temporary vows to study, and I believe she had to do translation work.

I don't know why, that's just the Order that jumped out at me when reading your post. I believe the sister follow Benedictine spirituality.

I, too, am looking for another community now. I was in religious life for a short time. That in-between time can be a challenge but I know you will find support on Phatmass. God bless and Mary keep you close!

Lauren

By the way, here is the website of Opus Angelorum: http://opusangelorum.org/english.html

And if you email opusangelorum@rc.net It is a sister who will reply, and can give you more information.

to Phatmass. We're all very glad you've joined.

There are many different charisms present on the boards, but I think you'll find Dominicans to be near the top of that list : Regarding active Dominicans, have you contacted the Dominican Sisters of Mission San Jose or the Nashville Dominicans? Both wear a habit and have opportunities for sisters to teach beyond the level of secondary education.

That's my two cents. Again, welcome.

Welcome to phatmass, Sophia! It's nice to have you here.

DITTO !!

Dear Sophia...welcome to phatmass!!! I generally just stay quiet, but I thought I could be of some assistance to you. At 44 years, you will find many religious orders in the US closed to you. To say that womens religious orders in the US have an age bias is an understatement. As far as the Dominicans represented on this phorum (Summit Dominicans, Nashville, and DSMME in Ann Arbor, MI), if you are over thirty or thirty-five, they don't want to know you. You will find the same is true of many Benedictine and Franciscan monasteries and convents as well. That is not to say that there is no hope...there is always hope. You will find that the Dominican Monastery in Buffalo would be open to you regardless of your age. I have the contact details if you would like them. You may also wish to consider the Visitation of Holy Mary. Each of their monasteries is also autonomous, and each has a different character but all have the same goal. I can only speak for Tyringham in Massachusetts with intimate knowledge. It is traditional without being over the top. Visitandines are not penitential; it is not part of their charism as St Francis de Sales believed it was not necessary as life and living in community were penetential enough. The first federation are cloistered, but the second federation are not. I also am close to a few Sisters at the Georgetown Visitation who are active, second federation. If there is any way in which I may assist you Sophia, please do not hesitate to PM me. Your Sister in Christ............

Welcome to Phatmass! Are you familiar with this SITE? God bless you on your journey!

I hope I am doing this reply properly. Thank you so much. I forgot about the forum for a few days so I just read this and I welcome your assistance as I think word of mouth is often much better than searching on one's own with the web. Though I am still in a time of healing I would like to know more about the Dominicans in Buffalo if you could please give me contact info. Yes, the Visitation charism is great from what I know of it although I was not attracted years ago to the only one near here just south of Seattle. I will look for Tyringham on the web, even if they are on the other side of the country. If they are not on the web please let me know more. Yes, I am looking for traditional without being over the top precisely. That's interesting about the different federations. I am still considering also active but for now, for active communities I am only going to spend a weekend in early October talking with a Dominican nun who left her community, which was going off the deepend years ago, and is trying to start a new community and she seems quite balanced. I picked 'Sophia' because in Greek it means wisdom. Blessings and hope to hear back soon...............

Dear Sophia....so lovely to hear from you! The Dominicans in Buffalo are cloistered, but they do have extern Sisters (a vocation in itself). Sister Rose of St Mary is the Novice Mistress there. The phone number is (716) 892-0066; the address is Dominican Nuns, Monastery of Our Lady of the Rosary, 335 Doat Street, Buffalo, NY 14211-2199. They do not have a website at present. A woman from this forum entered there this past January. She was 44 at the time. The website for Tyringham is: www.vistyr.org The Georgetown Visitation Monastery website (they are of the active, second federation) http://francis.visi.org. I have applied to enter the Tyringham Monastery, and am currently in the midst of working through the paperwork involved. They encourage women to make a retreat at the Monastery. It does help to get to know them up close, and vice versa. The retreat takes place in the cloister with the Sisters. This past March I spent five weeks as an aspirant with them. It was truly a grace filled time for me. I have been discerning with them for almost two years now. Oh...I am also an older candidate and went through ten years of constant rejection. God bless you and I too look forward to hearing from you again.

Please, let's be careful how things are stated! Our age limit is NOT an age bias (I speak for Summit only) but a decision made after many years of experience. Almost all novice mistresses/vocation directresses will tell you that it is MUCH harder to adjust to religious life after about age 35. This isn't bias. It's a simple fact of human growth and maturity. It's acknowleging that the human person grows and develops both physically, spiritually and morally. I'm sure that even the Nuns at the Buffalo monastery will tell you this.

The Visitation was founded for older women, widows, etc. It's part of their charism. Dominicans have a highly fraternal charism and often this is where older vocations find it most difficult to adapt.

Please understand that discernemnt goes both ways. No one has a right to enter a religious community. At each stage of formation one kneels before the community and asks to be accepted. One surrenders to God through the community, especially through obedience. "Age limits" are really nothing new to religious life. As far back as the 800's if someone entered "older" they were usually lay brothers or sisters.

Think also of the community. We don't often consider them when we are discerning (I never did!) It is hard to see woman after woman come and go. Given the fact that nuns in a community have lived the life for up to 70 years, sometimes, it might be a good idea to consider that they do have a certain "expertise" in knowing what sort of person has the best chance of persevering. Yes, Grace plays a role but grace builds on nature and perfects it.

While our age limit is 35 we have in fact considered women older if a certain adaptability, humility, zeal and prudence seem present. However, when I receive a letter from someone chastizing me for my community's policy than I know that that person won't work out with us if she is beginning discernment with us in this way.

I know many of you will not like what I have written but I think it's important that people realize that having an age limit is not an arbitrary decision but one that has substantial reasons behind it.

For those who are older there are quite a few Carmels, and some Benedictine houses that consider older vocations. I also think that a community will be more apt to consider them if their community is bigger. It does make it easy for someone older to adapt.

In Christ,
Sr. Mary Catharine

Thank you, Sr. Mary Catherine. I think this is something that should have been said a while ago. I think some people get the impression that orders are only concerned with 'looking young' which is why they only accept woman up to a certian age, not because of any practical reason. A community becomes your family when you enter, and you become thiers, part of formation, as I see it, is easing yourself into the life and into the family. I would think that at, say 50, it would be hard to suddenly find yourself part of a family. I think it would be alot easier to adapt when you are younger. Of course, this is not true for every community, depending on the life they live and the type of community they are. Just my two cents.

HI Sophia-

Welcome to the Phorum! And be assured that your healing and further discernment are in my prayers.

I agree with some of the comments about age limits- on the one hand I agree with Sr MC that they are not age bias, but I also agree that some communities do seem to have an eagerness to appear young, very young (and beautiful, apparently- the SMME's and OLAM seem only to have utterly beautiful candidates!)

I do wonder about age limits supposedly being necessary because of presumed difficulties adjusting to community life. I believe that the "grace of the office" can aid folks of all ages to adjust to new circumstances and personal relationships. 35 is so much younger today than it was in the past, since age spans have so lengthened. Many 50 year olds are vibrantly active, flexible and adaptible to new situations- many successfully change careers, blend families, etc. at that age or older. If "60 is the new 40" as some people say these days, the old psychology of life span development and set stages that end at certain chronological ages may need to be re-examined.

I keep St Rita in mind-if I remember her story accurately, she was turned down multiple times on the basis of age but then, through overtly miraculous divine intervention was accepted as an Augustinian nun.

Graciela

I think that the beauty of there sisters comes more from the inside and a shinning love of God than from any external beauty. Some are very pretty, it is true, but many of them are regular lokking people and some are not so attractive physically, just as in the 'real' world. When their zeal shines forth, they become beautiful.

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That's very true. I must agree with Sister MC. It's very easy for us on the outside to make judgements especially in this age of entitlement, but religious life isn't a "right" its a grace and a gift. If a woman can't accept the decision and authority of a particular community regarding acceptance, what kind of nun would she make? Authentic religious life requires a radical obedience and trust in God in his working through one's superiors.

God Bless,
V

I think this thread is moving off track--perhaps someone will take the discussion to a new thread?

After reading the numerous reactions to age bias brought up by Sr Mary Catherine in this thread, I could no longer keep silent. First of all, Sister Mary Catherine, with respect, you are not correct on two fronts. First of all, the Visitation of Holy Mary was NOT founded by St Francis de Sales and St Jane de Chantal for OLDER vocations. Wherever did you get such an idea? To put it in a very simplistic way, St Francis believed that everyone should be afforded the opportunity to live religious life. This included widows and women with "delicate health", among others. Women with delicate health, like St Therese's sister Leone for instance, could not withstand the demands and rigors of life in the more penetential orders. From all I have read of him, he also apparently did not believe that they were necessary. What was inside is of far more importance than the externals. He wrote a rule that can be followed by anyone. He did not specify an age limit in the rule probaby so that age alone could not be made an elimating factor. I imagine that is because he knew that God does not limit Himself based on a persons age or ethnicity. I find your arguments, Sister, to be convenient in the way that racial discrimination arguments were designed to justify the prejudice perpetrated against African Americans in this country. To say that older women fail more frequently at religous life is ludicrous. Upon what statistical data are you basing this assertion? How would anyone know since if you are over 35 you are generally barred. Rarely do orders who state an age limit even consider anyone over the limit. Regardless of age, very few of all those who try, regardless of age, succeed. I would venture to guess that most women are like myself....if an age limit were specified, I respected that. I have gotten replies in the past that were snide, sarcastic and downright mean and just plain hurtful. Well enough...I think you all get the point. If my words provoke a firestorm, please keep it to yourself. Nothing said here is going to change anyones mind and would only serve to be argumentative. Unlike the vast majority of you, my comments are based on first-hand experience.

I don't believe anyone here believes that religious life is a "right" regardless of the age we live in. My comments had absolutely NOTHING to do with making a judgement. They were statements of fact based upon ten years of personal, intimate knowledge of the reality of world and all it warts that we live in. God may be working through us, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we all listen............this includes superiors of religious communities. None of them has achieved a state of perfection, unless I am missing something. They are human and subject to all that implies.

Yes but even if God didnt tell the Superior to do something and the Superior asks of her sisters to do something its still pleasing to God to see what she asked is carried out simply through love and obedience.

Could this maybe be moved or if we could get back on to the topic, much apperciated.


To the phourm Sophia!

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Amen!

And, Welcome, Sophia! Your name is BEAUTIFUL!