http://cloisters.bravejournal.com/

Blessings,
Gemma

You will be in my prayers.

Keep up the good work.

Blessings always,
Jessica

Dear Gemma, Please know that this question is asked with sincerity and a desire to understand.
I don't understand who you are or how you are founding all these new Orders and with so many varied charisms, not to mention the green and yellow and all variety of habits?
With the ancient and traditional communities at a low in membership, is it right to be draining the resovoir, so to speak?
Do people who sign up with you know of the instability of the foundations.
My apology in advance if I have offended anyone, especially Gemma.

That's awesome, Gemma.

I have to admit that when I first came on phatmass and heard about Gemma's foundations, I was surprised at what she was doing, and perhaps even a little critical. But only God knows what He is asking of her and why, and only she knows if she is truly responding to His call for her. So I think that the best thing any of us can do for each other is to be loving and supportive.

I recently met with a priest who is a figure of some authority. He was very negative, not only about my own vocation, but also about the the idea of new communities in general, telling me that they usually didn't last very long. At the time I felt very depressed, and wrote to Rosalind Moss about it. This was her response...

"Concerning the longevity of new religious communities, my understanding is that the average community lasts fifty years. That results in thousands of new communities that are no longer in existence. Our Lord is able to keep those He wishes. And I would guess that all others—the majority—though no longer in existence, did a wonderful work within their culture and time. Mother Teresa loved to say that our Lord is not concerned with numbers (perhaps we could safely add, longevity), but with our faithfulness. The rest is up to God."

And as for "draining the reservoir" of applicants - I don't think this really applies. The Lord calls who He wills, to whichever community He wills. Witness my own call to Rosalind Moss' community, when I was convinced that I had a vocation to be more of a hermit! The Lord works in mysterious ways.

Whatever the final outcome of Gemma's foundations, the Lord still receives glory and honor and praise through her efforts. For this reason alone, she deserves our love and support and prayers.

"Gemma, you go girl!"

[quote name='nunsense' date='May 23 2008, 07:49 PM' post='1539357']
Whatever the final outcome of Gemma's foundations, the Lord still receives glory and honor and praise through her efforts. For this reason alone, she deserves our love and support and prayers.

With this, I certainly agree, however not everyone who comes here for help with discernment, has the maturity, experience or background that you have.
Just read some of the ages in the profiles. They obviously can be influenced by a green and yellow habit more so than the truth and the spirit of the words "I must decrease, He must increase."
As I pointed out. I am not pointing a finger at Gemma, I would like to understand where she is coming from. I know Gemma has a family and there are only 24 hours in a day.
I pray SHE responds to my question.
I don't need any more defensive answers on her behalf. I would like to undersand HER, better.

In the 20 or so years that I've been working with vocations, I know from experience that God calls vocations to those communities who are living their rule. In the monastic life, the vocation is called to not just one charism, but to a particular monastery within that charism.

The Cloisterite charism has been with me for many years. The foundation cannot and will not interfere with my family life. Both boys are in public school, and hubby is a graduate student. I have a lot of time on my hands, and I spend it with God.

The variety of charisms are to meet the needs of today's world. The habit colors are in response to people complaining about black. The colors are significant in the church's color scheme.

I just last week had a pic of a peach habit on the "religious habit" yahoo group I have.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thereligioushabit/ It belonged to the Little Souls Sisters in the Philippines.

I also downloaded to "founders and friends" (another yahoo group I own) some green and orange habit pix, respectively.

Yellow and white are papal colors, and are considered Heaven's own colors.

Green is the color of hope and is included in the church's color scheme. There are a couple of other orders I know of who wear green.

The Pink Sisters wear pink. The Religious of the Assumption wear purple, as do the new community, the Children of Mary.

Someone in Rome saw a sister in an all yellow habit.

Hope this answers your questions. I am on vacation until sometime Monday. I will be able to read emails at my foundress2003@yahoo.com address, but will not be able to respond.

Blessings,
Gemma

Thanks for the defense. Know that you and your future sisters--and foundress, of course--are in my prayers.

Blessings,
Gemma

I agree with Annie, but I understand Ewie's concern. It would be easy for some of the younger members of Phatmass (myself included) to hear all this talk of founders and foundations and start dreaming of creating a new community, as if it is like assembling a doll's house and kitting the dolls out in special clothes. Making a foundation - even one foundation - is not a part of most people's calling, and yet sometimes on Phatmass it is made to seem very common. That could be dangerous to those of us who are not so far along on our way.

I have had to struggle, really struggle, to accept my call to Carmel - even though I rejoice over it at the same time. The reason why I struggle is because of the other gifts that God has given me. It is enough to turn your head, as the saying goes - especially when your priest is telling you that you have too many talents to be a cloistered nun and you are needed in the world. Yes, I have so much in the world that I am very good at and that I love. The fantasy of founding a religious community to do work that interests me, that I consider necessary, that would allow me to do a host of other fascinating things - that has played around in my brain a few times. I have had to resolutely push it away. Luckily I had the guidance and support of a very gentle and wise spiritual director in doing this.

But I know how easy it is to get intoxicated by the desire to be a founder or a foundress, and I also know how few are called to it. It's easy to be deceived, and sometimes I fear that there are younger people on PM who may get caught up in the fantasy - which, because it's holy and about God, can't possibly be wrong. Or can it?

Well, I will probably get shot down for saying this, but I don't think we suffer from an excess of intoxication for God in this day and age. In fact, I think we could do with a lot more people who are "fools for God".

Becoming a foundress, as I am sure Gemma can attest, is not something that will happen overnight. So even if some young person (or older person for that matter), gets "carried away" by the "fantasy" of doing something big for God, the harsh reality is that there are enough authorities and discouragements along the way to deter all but the very faint hearted from persevering to the very end in their venture. But does that make their efforts any less meaningful or bring any less glory to God? Personally, I don't think so.

Sure, we all want to find the "perfect" community for us, enter it and never leave again. And that is why there is so much discernment going on.... and it's good. But there really are no guarantees in this life. I know of Carmelite monasteries that have been around for nearly a hundred years in England but are having to close or merge with other monasteries due to lack of vocations. Whereas there are newer communities that are thriving and growing all the time. So if a young person decided to "play it safe" and go for the older and more established community - does that mean they have a guarantee about the stability of that community?

I am all for being careful and considering all aspects of each community, as much as possible. But I am also in favor of listening to the heart, and following the guidance of the Holy Spirit - which may not be saying exactly what we expect to hear!

I too used to think that there were enough religious communities already, and that there was no need to start any new ones. But my opinion has changed (I wonder why? ) and now I am just heartened by anyone who gets inspired enough to try to do, as Mother Teresa said, "something beautiful for God". If she hadn't started her community back in the 70s (60s?), then what a loss to the whole world!

But Gemma has the right idea in trying to set up a support group for founders -- being one has to be one of the hardest things in the world to do, and one of the most discouraging. But whatever the outcome for each potential founder/foundress, I am sure that along the way, they learn a lot more about their own faith in God, and that has to be a good thing.

I just wonder what would have happened if the Apostles had stopped to consider every possible obstacle and disadvantage to spreading the gospel - they might never have left home!

No one can 'shorten Gods arm", not even the apostles.

I think you have either missed the point of the "topic" are on a differant page than the original post, or you simply had something of your own to say. Not very much of your "reply related to the question".

I didn't say that it was a bad idea to get 'intoxicated for God'. I wrote that it was a bad idea to get intoxicated by a fantasy. I also believe that we are all called to do something 'big' for God, and that founding a new community is no bigger (or smaller) than living out your days as a humdrum housewife in a humdrum suburb where hardly anybody knows who you are. It is just that most of us have a tendency to assume that the more romantic and exotic an idea, the more genuine and pleasing to God it must be. It's a natural mistake to make, and a ditch that everybody ought to fall into at least once. There's good experience in it. But if you stay there for too long it gets easy to neglect your very real calling for the sake of the exotic calling that you wish you had.

While it is true that the discouragements and trials of making a foundation might put off those who don't really have that vocation, it is also true that they might just inculcate greater stubbornness in people who are mulish enough to begin with, distracting them from the truth of their vocations. I know a lady who fits this last category. She's lovely and funny and kind - but she's also convinced that she is called to found a religious community, and that anybody who objects to the idea is 'persecuting' her. She gets quite aggressive over the issue. She has had a habit made for herself and goes out in the streets in it, introducing herself as a member of a community that doesn't actually exist. The bishop has very gently requested her to stop doing this, and our local priest (who is kindness itself) has also tried his best to temper her excitement a little. I like and respect her a great deal, but I am perturbed by her obsession with making foundation. Of course, it's possible that she is a genuine 'fool for God' and what I call fantasies are really divine inspirations that are beyond my comprehension. I try to remain open to that possibility. But I refuse to 'take the community into my thinking', as she keeps urging me to do, because I won't allow emotional responses to an interesting idea to be my compass-needle. Being an impulsive person by nature, I have to be very careful not to let impulses and emotions govern me - which is why I am quite suspicious of them in other people.

[quote name='Gemma' date='May 23 2008, 10:29 PM' post='1539536']
Hope this answers your questions.

Dear Gemma, Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions and sending the addy of your 'journal". I understand so much better. I would not hesitate now to send either applicants or benefactors your way.
Thank you for hearing the invitation of the Holy Spirit, responding to His Call with such enthusiasm, and continually attempting to maintain your work within the parameters of the Magesterium.
Not a pleasant walk in the park, no matter how you look at it.
Begging your prayers,
Offering mine,
Ewie.

P.S. This doesn't mean that I am opposed to all new foundations. As I wrote in my first post, I know that some people are called to make them. I just believe that such people are rare.

All this brings to mind the "Gamaliel Principle" that was drilled into us in school - quite a ways back the road now, by the way : "If it is of God, it will last. If it is not...it won't." Blest are those who have the courage to believe that it is and risk finding out.

Amen.

I think this is the peach habit that Gemma was speaking of...

Thank you for your correction. I am obviously "on a different page". My apologies.

[quote name='nunsense' date='May 25 2008, 12:24 AM' post='1541307']
Thank you for your correction. I am obviously "on a different page". My apologies.

Nonsense, No apology necessary Nunsense!!! lol

HAPPY FEAST DAY

I want to respond to this topic with just a little different "flavor".....inspiration from two sources, one contemporary (an excerpt from a contemporary Christian song) and one ancient (an excerpt from the Easter Homily of St. John Chrysostom). As I've pondered these words I have been inspired to deeper thought, prayer, contemplation and action....considering the "concepts" presented in these words thoughtfully and prayerfully, placing them in proper "order" in my life has meant a great deal to me personally.

I apologize to the composer (thought I doubt the composer will see this) but I can not even remember the correct Title of this song...here's the excerpt though.

Love to talk about the shepherd boy who stood alone against Goliath
Don't say much about the mighty king who killed a man and took his wife
In his failures and his victories, God heard David sing

You are my shepherd, You are my King
Who I am and what I do is meaning less and less, I glorify You
You are my shepherd, my everything
I will leave myself behind, spend the rest of my whole life chasing after You.

Chrysostom Easter Homily (I'm sharing the whole first paragraph because I think it is beautiful but the last two sentences are the ones that I think are applicable to the question of "success/failure/trying/chasing after/doing God's will. So much in so few words - no wonder others named him GOLDEN MOUTHED.

Whoever you are, come celebrate this shining happening, this festival of light. You, the devout, God's unshakable lover and you the servant brimming with thanks, come walk into the joy of your Lord. And you the impoverished faster, come for your wages, you who began before sunrise, come for your stipend, you who waited until nine in the morning, the feast is for you. And you the not-till-noon-day starter, do not hesitate, you'll not lose a thing. You who began only at 3 in the afternoon, have no scruples, come to the feast, you who arrived just before sunset, forget you were late, don't be bashful, our master is magnanimous and welcomes the very latest with the very first one. He will not entertain you less, you of the eleventh hour than you the dawn toiler, no not at all.To this one He gives and on that one He showers rewards, whether you were a success or whether you only tried. He will greet you, make much of your effort and extol your intention.


[indent][/indent]By the way, I want to say that I really liked what Nunsense posted - part of Ms. Moss' response to her questions about new communities - 50 years of existence and service to God and his people can hardly be considered a "failure" or "not lasting" - at least not in my opinion. At the same time, I believe it is right and necessary to question, probe, consider and "try" ourselves (if we are doing the "founding") and those who are bringing the "new" to the Church - what is being proposed is of great importance and the souls who may "join" are precious to God - we ought to be responsible and inspired and let Jesus be successful.

At any rate, I hope that someone may find comfort, peace, inspiration, courage, hope and mercy in the sources quoted.

Peace

Perhaps it would be instructive to review carefully the history of foundresses as they founded their orders. There is a lot of material on this subject. Most of the communities were founded in the 19th century and earlier. The foundresses often had strong support from local church officials and other saints, St. Francis de Sales for Jande de Chantal and the Visitation, St. Vincent de Paul for Louise de Marillac and the Daughters of Charity. The foundresses and their nuns often begged door to door and endured severe privations. Often there would be mutinies within the congregations by unsuitable members who would isolate or kick out the foundress. But people went forward because of their determination and toughness and I think many of the sisters persevered because for many there was no possibility of return to secular life.

It's different now, especially for the 'older vocation' or for anyone who has established themselves in secular life. They have to give up their jobs which may have health insurance and retirement benefits, apartments or houses, maybe selling the latter in the current down market or at a loss, , cars, friends and many other things to enter. If the order fails, and in many ways it can fail, the person is stranded and has to start all over again discerning and supporting herself while she discerns.

To say that that whether the order survives or fails is "the will of God" is, I think, being very simplistic. It is extremely difficult to discern God's will, as many on this forum have discovered, and just because someone thinks that they are following God's will in founding a community doesn't mean that they are actually doing so.

In addition I think that the putative founder or foundress is taking on a huge responsibility for those who follow her into the fledgling community. There must be a huge amount of support at all levels including financial. The Daughters of Mary Mother of the Eucharist in Ann Arbor were heavily underwritten by Tom Monaghan, the founder and CEO of Domino's pizza. There must be great spiritual support and sources for the training, which for the DMME came from their mother order, the Nashville Dominicans. Cardinal Cushing of New York founded the Sisters for Life and I am sure had many resources at his disposal.

It was Cardinal O'Connor (who was Bishop O'Connor at the time) who founded the Sisters of Life.

Sorry.

However, the point remains.

[quote name='jkaands' date='May 26 2008, 01:12 PM' post='1543456']
To say that that whether the order survives or fails is "the will of God" is, I think, being very simplistic. It is extremely difficult to discern God's will, as many on this forum have discovered, and just because someone thinks that they are following God's will in founding a community doesn't mean that they are actually doing so.
In addition I think that the putative founder or foundress is taking on a huge responsibility for those who follow her into the fledgling community. There must be a huge amount of support at all levels including financial.

Ah, at last, a voice of sanity in a sea of confusion. Jkaands message contains some of the wisest advise I have seen on here. Thank you for posting it.

What exactly is EWIE's problem anyhow? This is the second person that I know of she has attacked, saying she didn't mean to the whole while.

I was wondering the same as well. As far as Gemma and her foundations go, who are we to question whether or not God is acting in her inspirations?? If God wills it her communities will prosper and their members will persevere, and may God grant that it be so. I don't think anyone on THIS FORUM is qualified to question her. Let's leave that to the responsible bishop and spiritual directors. Its not our job. I think those on this forum should focus more supporting one another.

Sometimes I wonder how many of us would actually follow Christ if we were around when He walked the earth. How many of us would be like the rich young man who wanted to follow Christ, but when told that he would have to sell everything and give it to the poor, decided that he just couldn't do it. Jesus was saddened because of the young man's inability to trust Him.

Isn't it the same today when we have to worry about our cars and jobs and 401Ks and all of those other things that we might lose if, God forbid, for any reason, we are unable to continue in a community.

All I know is that in trying to give my life to Jesus, I have now started all over again in my life with absolutely nothing, and yet I regret nothing. I feel blessed to have been a Carmelite, even if it was for only 8 months. And I feel blessed to be given another chance to try again in another community - no matter what the final outcome may be. After all, what does it profit a man [or woman] if he gain the whole world and lose his soul? I would rather pile up my treasures in heaven than here on earth.

Yes, I am a fanatic. I readily admit it. And I realize that not everyone feels the same way I do. That's fine. I only have to please God in this life. So that is what I am trying to do. Only He knows if I am succeeding.

So, I support anyone who feels called to serve God, however they may feel that call. Despite what anyone thinks, God is in charge, and He will allow some new communities to succeed and others to fail, but He will use it all for His glory and for the sanctification of our souls.

Whatever must have the families of the Apostles thought when they dropped their work and just walked off to join Jesus? I wonder if they debated whether to wait until a viable community was formed and they could guarantee their retirement funds and health plans?? Yes, I know, I am being silly... but come on guys -- think about it. Are we trying to line up a vocation like we would a job or a mortgage? We have become so "practical" and cautious that, let's face it, we just wouldn't cut it as disciples in the "good old days".

Ok, so now EWIE and others can slam me again, but I can't help it. I am in love with Jesus, and I don't care who knows it! And love makes one a little impulsive.

Thats beautiful!

I have one question: How come it means that it wasn't God's will for a community to exist if a community doesn't last for a long period of time? How do we know that it wasn't God's will that it be in existance for however long it did last?

Absolutely correct (IMHO)! There is no reason to assume that it wasn't God's will for me to go to England as a Carmelite for 8 months either. As long as we put God first, then whatever we are doing is probably His will for us at that time. He uses everything that we offer to Him. Sometimes things change, but that doesn't mean what happened before wasn't part of His will.

Only hindsight is 20/20 - so we do what we can, with what we have, all in sincere love for Him and in obedience to His Church.

Good point MissScripture!

Annie, what you write is beautiful, but it is not relevant to anything Ewie or I said (I presume that I am one of the 'others', the second-class Christians who wouldn't make good disciples because we lack the impulsivity to sell everything we have, be fanatics for Jesus, etc). You seem to be taking all of my comments as signs of my disbelief in the potential and viability of new communities and derision about their founders. That's not what I wrote. A quieter, more cautious approach does not signify a lack of faith or trust. It does not mean that the cautious person is trying to line up a vocation like a job or a mortgage. It doesn't mean that people who don't go into transports of emotion at the thought of founding a new community 'wouldn't cut it as disciples'. It just means that we have different personalities - which, I hope, are just as valuable to God as more emotional and passionate temperaments.

If you interpret this as a 'slam', I'm truly sorry. It's not intended to be, although it is difficult not to feel slightly hurt and angry at your implicit suggestion that those of us who don't feel things in the same way as you do aren't in love with Jesus. After all, if impulsivity is a measure of love, where does that leave people like me?

My, but I do seem to have precipitated a tempest in a teapot here!

EWIE--God bless you!!! Everyone needs to know how generous you've been with not only your avatar and one similar to it, but also your prayers and support. I'd also like to insert here that Cathoholic Anonymous has Aspergers Autism like I do, and may not be able to express herself as she would like.

Jkaands--I have been reading the lives of founders for many, many years. I became Catholic at 16, and started reading this particular line of hagiography then. As Mother Teresa said, "God's got lots of money." When the funds are supposed to be there, they will be there.

Nunsense--Our Cloisterites are your emerging charism's cloistered branch. Tell Mother not to worry about that right now. Part of our Cloisterite charism is to pray for emerging communities, since no one else is doing that. Because we are doing that, then the emerging charisms should have more of a fighting chance of survival. (Would it be possible to obtain a copy of the spiritual directory and application for our records)?

All others--thanks for your support.

If I might add a bit more to the Cloisterite Foundational update here--the Sisters of Mary Reparatrix (SMRs) have denied our request for their Pre-VatII rule and constitutions. They don't observe them anymore, but nobody has a right to live them anymore, either. That includes the habit. I've even been told to take all references to their charism off our website. Last I checked, their foundress belonged to the Church, as did her writings. Why not just add a disclaimer that we have nothing to do with the SMRs?

So, now we're discerning further actions. I was advised not to make major decisions when in the midst of the temptest, but to get quiet and listen for further instructions.

For those without a spiritual director--the Liturgy of the Hours is a good stand-in. The canonist I saw last Thursday suggested this to me. When I opened the LOTH this morning, the first line of the Psalms was that used in the Rite of Exorcism, and the first line of the readings was from Ecclesiastes, which is also the first line of the Cloisterite Constitutions.

At any rate, before going on vacation this weekend, I ran off as many eremetical rules as I could find. The Cloisterites-in-Diaspora will have a rule of similar make-up to that of the cenobitical community which came from many rules. The Cloisterites represent all orders, therefore, the rule is compiled from all rules.

Blessings,
Gemma

[quote name='Gemma' date='May 27 2008, 07:43 AM' post='1544751']
My, but I do seem to have precipitated a tempest in a teapot here!

Actually, I found it a very honest discussion of some important points to consider, especially for newbies.

I ran off as many eremetical rules as I could find.


I have them all as I had to research them myself at one time. Let me know what ones you found and if you are missing any, I will send them to you.

Jesus stilled the storm, while in the [b]middle of the storm.[/b]

Blessings and peace Gemma.
Remember, vacation means to VACATE....so enjoy your family time and leave all the concerns and distractions behind while on vacation and just breath.


Someone recently said to me regarding Hilary Clinton, "just because you slept with the president, doesnt make you a president." I thought that could be applied in many ways.ie.
Just because I've read a book on dentistry, doesn't make me a dentist. Just because I've read a book on the saints, doesn make me a saint. Just because I've read all the books on religious life, doesnt make me a religious.

For the Cloisterettes perhasp the best thing to do would be study the rules of St.Augustine,St.Benedict,St.Francis ,and St.Dominic,as these are public domain so to speak,and have proven themselves over the centuries.You could use one of these rules of life for the Cloisterettes and no one would care
and perhasp the superior generals of these communities could offer some valubale advice.

It's hard to give everything up for someone and move from place to place,because you love them.
My dad was in the US AirForce for 33 years,and whereever he went ,we went too.
It was probably the same in the days of the Apostles,who beside preaching,must have done some maunel labor to
to earn money for food and shelter for the family.

There are many things invovled in founding a community,and I believe the bible says The Lord helps them who help
themselves. The community needs to look into health care for it's members for example.How are they going to afford the group premiums,after all,we are not like Canada,England,etc.where there is national health coverage for all,and even private insurance if you want it.
If a member leaves,they have to have some money to start to support themselves with when they leave,which I assume is where a dowry comes in.
For whatever reasons,new communities fail.Perhasp the timing wasn't right,or God decided the members would be better off in the secular world, or there is much opposition from church authorities.Hard to say.
If they did some good for the short time they were here,then may God be praised for trying .
There was a community founded in Panna Maria ,texas known as the Sisters of the Immaculate Conception,also called Blue Sisters from their habit.They were founded by some Sisters of Divine Providence of San Antonio to teach the Polish and German children of the area.However they disbanded due to internal conflicts with members i believe.
The sisters went and joined other communities,this was back in the 1880s.
If someone spends time in the convent and leaves during the postulancy or noviate,it doesn't mean they are a bad person,it may just mean the community they joined wasn't right for them.
God is trying to steer them in another direction.The time wasn't wasted,and they can use their experiences there throughout the rest of their life.
There is just so much invovled in this,one just wants to make sure that they are truly following God's wishes.

Ok, so now EWIE and others can slam me again,

I wasn't aware that I had slammed you and I am sorry that is your perception. I was rather under the impression that you were a revered and long standing member of this phorum.

to williamb and st therese---I didn't know I had a problem. Please, tell me what it is.


I am only responsible for what I say, not for what you hear.

Here in the corner with me, I guess. Didja bring any chocolate?
You have taken the words right out of my mouth. Thank you for all you have written. You have expressed it so well.

I'm in the process of retyping the rule--which came from Saints Augustine, Benedict, Albert of Jerusalem, Francis, Clare, Colette, Francis de Sales, Jane de Chantal, and Paul of the Cross. I first penned it on Mother Seton's feast day 20 or so years ago.

Blessings,
Gemma

I found one really good rule online, written by a Dominican. Has three parts, and it alternates between Spanish and English.

Then I found that of St. Columba; and the OSB Cam oblates; and the Carthusians.

Would there be any others?

Blessings & thanks for your assistance,
Gemma

While I realize my previous post did not add anything practical or concrete to this discussion, my intention in posting it was to show (at least partially) that one of our greatest saints, a Doctor of the Church clearly says there is a place for ALL in Christ. Perhaps my additional comments made this intention less clear, or perhaps some don't find Chrysostom as encouraging/inspiring as I do.

There will always be those whose starting point is one side of the coin (if you will) and those who start from the "other" side of the coin. Some will be spurred on by, or find their initial strength in feelings, others in thought and reason, but at some point, in my opinion, both these types of people would do well for themselves and those who may follow (in the case of founders) to take a peek at the opposite side of the coin and draw some strength there as well.

I tend to operate from "inspiration" intially and later (now that I'm older not TOO MUCH LATER) from "reason" so I make sure (when I need to make important decisions)that I have included in my support system those whose first recourse is to reason rather than inspiration. It balances me and works well for me. It's not a perfect system and I am not a perfect person - I've made my share of bad decisions even when I've sought council and tried to cover every base....it's then that I find most comfort in the words of Chrysostom......"He will make much of your effort and extol your intention".....and the words of Merton ..."I believe the desire to please you does in fact please you"... those words are for all of us....for Jkaands, for EWIE and CA sitting in the corner (perhaps chocolate-less..but if someone did bring the chocolate, let me know - I'm joining you over there) and for Nunsense and Gemma forging ahead into the "new", and for the countless multitudes living somewhere in the middle - always fighting themselves not being quite sure which way to go and maybe being just a wee bit paralyzed by it all....but loving God and his people just the same.

We all express our love for God (and people) differently - it is unjust and unkind to imply that someone does not love God because they do not express their love for God as another person does....God receives each one's expression without prejudice.

Peace

Aye, aye, aye (or as Rosalind might say "Oy vay!"). I seem to be one of those fools who rush in where angels fear to tread. Of course, I meant nothing bad against either EWIE or CA (how could you even think that CA?? You know me!).

And may I please sit with you both in the corner if I bring the chocolate?

I always feel like the odd one out, so EWIE, you comment about me being a "revered and long standing member" of this forum is so strange. I only joined a year ago and I seem to always be writing things that cause controversy, so I have never seen myself the way you see me. The problem is that I can't keep my mouth shut (my keyboard still?) and always have trouble being understood through the foot that is perpetually in my mouth.

When I get all enthusiastic and start spouting out about needing to have less caution, it is to MYSELF I am speaking! I live my life in fear of so many things, and yet I continue to move on regardless, so I am always telling myself that "It is ok." "Don't worry." "Trust in God." It is not a comment against anyone else. In fact, I have always wished that I were more like others, who can be patient and cautious, because then I wouldn't die a million little deaths of fear!

And I do get excited and consider the world well lost for love, but that is just me. I do so admire those of you who see something, decide that you want to do it, make a plan, stick to it, change plans only as necessary, and end up at the destination in one piece, ready, willing and able to do what is required of you. I leap first, look back, wonder why I haven't made it to the other side, and scream all the way down

So, no, I am NOT saying that anyone is less in love with Jesus or less willing to serve God. You may all now roll up a newspapers and hit me on the head with it. and I will sit back down like a naughty puppy and pant a little with big sorrowful eyes that say "You can't be mad at me! I'm too cute!" Ok????

I just get excited.......

Gemma, do you have St. Francis' Rule for Friars Living in Hermitage? It's separate from his other rule(s) and I have a copy if you need it...it is also available online and I'm sure I could find the site(s) for you that post it. It is a very short, simple and wonderful rule (IMHO).

Also do you know about Raven's Bread? I think I've heard you mention that you do, but I can't remember for sure. They are a wealth of information and have many rules available - either for downloading or purchasing (donation I believe) - I believe they even have one or two rules written by people currently approved as diocesan hermits. Fr. Roman's Rule for the Hermits of Bethlehem is in a book form available from Amazon, it's title is A WAY OF DESERT SPIRITUALITY (I'm sure it's available from places other than Amazon as well). Also the yahoo group Catholic Hermits has available for printing, the guidebook to becoming a diocesan hermit written by a FSPA Sister (Marlene Weisenbeck, FSPA, Ph.D, JCL) from the Office of Consecrated Life in the Diocese of La Crosee Wisconsin...I believe it is free for dowloading/printing - I no not believe it is still available directly from the diocese. The Guidebook is very well written and contains a ton of practical information right down to how to set up a chart of accounts for a non-profit corporation.

I'm also here looking at a piece titled EREMITEC RULE OF LIFE, I don't know who wrote it and I haven't read it, but I can tell you that it is an approved rule for a hermit - a Bishop of the Diocese of Austin's signature is on it....this is apparently a result of a revision made by the Bishop who signed it...the date is 1998.

If you'd like, I'd be happy to scan the document and email it to you....if so, please send me your email address.

Peace

Wow, thanks for the leads. The SFdS rule for hermits--was that written for Mount Voiron (sp?). If so, another aspiring founder has been looking for it.

I'll have to check in to Raven's Bread. I've been living eremetical most of my adult life (since college, since I kept losing roommates. Only one ever persevered the entire year with me. The breaks of being Catholic on a "fundamentalist" campus), and should probably incorporate some ideas into my daily Lay Passionist life.

I've updated the Cloisterite website. Now has "Foundational Update" page. I couldn't believe the site has had over 5,000 hits!

Yes, please scan the document. My email address is foundress2003@yahoo.com

Blessings,
Gemma

[quote name='Gemma' date='May 27 2008, 10:30 AM' post='1544859']
Then I found that of St. Columba; and the OSB Cam oblates; and the Carthusians.

Would there be any others?


The eremitic Rule of St. Albert is the shortest of the rules of consecrated life in existence in the Roman Catholic spiritual tradition. St. Albert Avogadro, a priest of the Canons Regular and Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, wrote the Rule in the in the early 13th century. If you don't have this one, I can copy it to you.

The Rule of St Benedict (fl. 6th century) is a book of precepts written for monks living in community under the authority of an abbot.

The Rule of St. Augustine.

Ancrene Wisse (also Ancrene Riwle) or Guide for Anchoresses is a monastic rule (or manual) for anchoresses, written in the early 13th century.


Calmoldese Hermits of MonteCarona,
http://camaldolese.org/pdfs/constitution.pdf


Resources =Canons Regular of New Jerusalem.

The Rule of St. Augustine

Saint Romuald’s Brief Rule : Immaculate Heart of Mary’s Hermitage Report

I hit send too quickly and believe I may have lost a few in the process.

This is one of them...."The La Crosse Rule" for consecrated Hermits.
I'll see if I can find the others.
Blessings.

CA - your PM mailbox is full - I want to PM you!

OK Gemma, I'll get the scanning done for you asap. The St. Francis I'm speaking of (whose Rule for Hermits I have) is Francis of Assisi, I'm thinking your abbreviation SFdS means St. Francis de Sales - yes? I don't have his rule. Do you want the "other" St. F's rule?

Here's the address for Raven's Bread...to get a list of their publications, you have to email them, but you can view newsletters online and there's a lot of information in each one (if I recall correctly, it's been a while since I read one)
http://www.op.org/ravensbread/default.htm

Also - while I'm at it I"ll go ahead and scan the document from the Diocese of LaCrosse...it'lll take me a little longer but I think it's worth it for you, and if you don't want it you can always just delete it.

Peace

[quote name='gloriagurl' date='May 27 2008, 02:17 PM' post='1545096'
Here's the address for Raven's Bread...to get a list of their publications, you have to email them, but you can view newsletters online

Gemma. I would say that Ravens Bread would be a must for you personally and for your work. Although it is only 4-6 pages (depending) there is so much in it and very much of it is NOT online. Also, it can be very inter-active.

Karen and Paul will send it also, if funds are not available, as some hermits donate extra $$$$ in order for any hermit who wants it, receives it.

You are the second person to have noticed that. It is not full any more - I have tidied it up.

My apologies for the misunderstanding. Sometimes I am not sure whether somebody is speaking to me personally or just describing their own experience.

Greetings, Gemma! I've been visiting your site (your cloisterite) and I am so happy to have that future order.

I just have some questions, which I hope are not offensive. I just want some clarification:

1. I was just surprised to see that you are going to found lots of religious orders. I've never heard of that except from you. Don't you think it would be better to combine these proposed religious orders into one? Don't you think it's too early to plan future orders.

2. You seem to concentrate most on religious habit. I find this sentence from your site disturbing: Headdress--cloisters are literally on the sisters' minds . What do you mean here? Do you think it's better if your nuns will only have Jesus in their minds?

I have some more questions but I am going to read first more on your site to avoid disturbing you as I may ask you questions that are already answered.

God bless.

Yes, they are disturbing questions--particularly number 2. The second question suggests idolatry of the cloisters. It also calls into question the competency of me as a founder, vocation director, and discerner of spirits, as well as the motivation of our aspirants.

I can guarantee that Jesus is the first and foremost motivation for all of us, and making reparation to Him, particularly in the Blessed Sacrament, while praying for vocations to not only the cloisters, but to our proposed charisms, and emerging charisms not of our founding. Nobody else is doing this as an apostolate.

If you're not satisfied with that answer, I suggest getting quiet, getting centered, and asking Our Lady of the Cloister herself for clarification.

Our proposed charisms will be founded from either the Cloisterites (the cloistered charisms) or the Congregation of Charity of the Miraculous Medal, better known as the CCMMs, who will found the active charisms. In the case of the latter, the proposed charisms will split off from the initiatives as specialization.

CCMM update: we have two active aspirants who are developing their apostolates at home; one recluse aspirant, who is discerning the recluse rule with me; and one lay CCMM aspirant, who is also discerning the guidelines for the laity with me.

Cloister Outreach is a city of God, with a safe harbor in which discerners may drop anchor, hence the ship's anchor behind Our Lady of the Cloister (imagine a 'prayerful' Immaculate Conception), who stands before a section of wall.

Other multiple founders: St. Joseph Cottolingo (14) and Blessed Don Orione (5).

Permit me to mention that these proposed foundations are for EFLR discerners. We will have the Traditional Latin Mass, now known as the Extraordinary Form of the Latin Rite (EFLR). Available EFLR communities for women can be counted on one hand--literally. EFLR discerners are relieved to find that Cloister Outreach will be offering so many possibilities; have complemented the habit designs; and are very pleased with the apostolates.

Blessings,
Gemma