So...

i don't think i've come out and said it on the boards, but i am open to God's will, which means, at this point, i just really don't care if He wants me to be a wife or Religious Sister. Abandonment; His will, not mine. i could use some help, though, with something that's come up.

i moved here last Summer; met the diocesan vocations director in a social setting in the Fall; he became a friend. Recently, he asked me to help him with the girls' side of his job. So far, that meant starting and running a prayer group for single lay women. No biggie.

Well, he'd told me he just didn't know what to do with women who come to him for help, and that he might send them to me for assistance (the two local women's religious communities are, well, how shall i say this - they probably wouldn't cut it as PM Church Scholars).

Today, at my regular job, a lady sent by Fr. Jim came to me looking for vocational discernment help. (i am humbled, and continue to be amazed by what the Lord asks of someone like me!)


So - Pham, i need your help - prayers, first of all.

Secondly, she's 46. i know there have been discussions on here about older vocations - could someone link them?

Also, does anyone know of a community that chants the Office in Latin?


Thanks so much!!!

The Benedictine Nuns of Regina Laudis in Bethlehem Connecticut chant in Latin. If I think of any others, I will post them.

Thanks so much! Keep the info coming, guys - i'll pass it all along!

I've heard that the Dominican Nuns in Buffalo, NY and Marbury AL use a great deal of Latin in their daily prayer, don't know if that helps. Marbury has a website, and Buffalo has a sketchy webpage, not much info on it. But we have former phatmassers in both places who are novices now. The novice at Buffalo is a "mature" vocation! Good luck and bless you for trying to help!

Awesome! thanks for the help!

Two other Benedictine communities that chant the Office in Latin are Westfield, VT and Kansas City, MO (Benedictines of Mary) The Benedictines of Mary have an age limit of 30, but I don't know about Westfield. Then the Cistercian Nuns in WI chant the whole Office in Latin, http://nunocist.org/ I just saw on their site they have an age limit of 35, though as with any community with an age limit, they might make exceptions.

The 5 Carmels in the US that chant the whole Office in Latin are Buffalo, NY - Alexandria, SD - Brooklyn, NY - Clearwater, KS & Valparaiso, NE (Valp.'s Office is of the ancient Carmelite rite with the Extraordinary Form for Mass, the others the new rite in Latin) I believe all of those though have an age limit of about 35, though again, they might make exceptions. There are others though that use a good amount of Latin like Traverse City, MI and Dallas, TX. I know Dallas accepts older vocations. Currently they have a pretty large novitiate, so they might have a limit on how many more they will accept at this time, but if she's interested, she should write them anyway.

Then for the Poor Clares, I don't know of any that chant the whole Office in Latin, but I know of a few traditional PCC monasteries that are open to older vocations: Belleville, IL Roswell, NM (new site: http://www.poorclaresroswell.com/) Rockford, IL & Cleveland, OH (though it says on the IRL site that the last two aren't open to older vocations in their profiles, I know of two women in their later 40's whom these were open to).

Generally the Visitation Order is the one that's usually always pretty open to older vocations. Two good ones I know of are Toledo, OH and Tyringham, MA. I'm not sure if either of these chant the Office in Latin though.

Then the last one that comes to mind would be the Norbertine Nuns in Tehachapi, CA. I'm not sure about age limits with them though.

One thing also, you might ask her if she definitely feels called to the cloistered life, or if maybe she might feel called to be an extern, as communities with age limits like several of those above, will usually be open to older women who would like to enter as an extern. One of the externs at Buffalo Carmel who passed away a few years back had entered later on in life after she was widowed. But if she's sure about being called to the cloister, she should stick with that conviction and search for communities that will accept older cloistered vocations.

Then there are definitely many other cloistered communities that are open to older vocations. But for communities that chant the whole Office in Latin, these are the only ones that come to mind just now, besides the Poor Clares and Visitandines I listed. God bless you in this great work you are undertaking to help those discerning!

Also, if she'd like to start with a few good communities in the area, I would suggest the Poor Clare Capuchins in Denver, CO (also Pueblo, CO) - Benedictine Abbey of St. Walburga - and the Carmel in Littleton, CO, of which I am pretty sure is open to older vocations, and which I know is very traditional. Here's an article on them in the Denver Catholic Register.

wow! thanks for all the info! i know she will be pleased!

Correction: was never married actually, and she entered in her 40's Also, here's an article on one of the externs at Buffalo Carmel, Deepening Her Walk of Faith , in case she's interested in this vocation.

awesome! thanks so much!

Another Benedictine community that prays the whole Office in Latin: http://www.rockisland.com/~mhildegard/ God bless!

St. Scholastica Priory in Petersham MA chants in Latin

..

As a very general rule, Benedictines, Carmelites and especially Visitation nuns seem to be more open to older vocations.

While I'm happy to give whatever information that I can regarding communities that chant the office in Latin, I must say that I find this situation outlined in this post unfortuate (to say the least) and troubling.

Here we have an ordained minister of the Church, sacramentally entrusted with the care of souls, dedicated to the service of God's people, particularly (in his current position) to serve those who seek to live as priests OR religious.....and he needs help with the "girls' side of his job"???? Even if those are not his words, it's distressful that he willingly admits he doesn't "know what to do with women who come to him for help".

Further, he's seeking the advice of and sending seriously discening women to someone who has absolutely no experience in spiritual direction, guidance, formation etc etc etc.

Quite frankly, I find it shocking.

While I commend your desire to be helpful (in starting a prayer group for single lay women), I'm disquieted by your willingness to take on assisting others in vocational discernment at the diocesan level....what I mean by that is that someone going to the diocesan vocations office for help, deserves just that...help from the diocesan vocation office. It's quite a different story from someone coming to an internet forum like phatmass to gather information from others who are out on the Internet searching for it or to look for encouragement from the personal stories of those who have visited communities, or who are (or have) lived religious life.

I hear (or in this case read) that you want to help but at the same time we must all exercise caution when dealing with such important issues and place them squarely in the hands of those who have the authority and experience to deal with them. If this priest can't find a way to help women seeking vocational discernment advice, or if he has difficulty dealing with women in his job in general, he certainly needs help...and he needs it from someone qualified to give it to him....or he should be placed in a position that is better suited to his skill set.

Pax

you're right. sorry for bothering you guys.

I don't think you were a bother.

Maybe you can't be a full-blown spiritual director (well, make that probably, although they all have to start somewhere). And I do agree that maybe this women deserves something better from the diocesan office... but well, I'm not used to much (as far as I can tell we don't HAVE a diocesan vocation office), and anyone can do with a friend who can pray with her, help her sort through the jungle out there, and generally be open and impartial.

please don't think i am trying to be a spiritual director! the only thing i actually suggested to her was to try getting a spiritual director!! i have no interest in being a spiritual director, and am trying to find some info like i might have for any of my friends.

i am very sorry to have caused any pain to the serious discerners on this board - you guys are so amazing.

Again, no pain taken, I'm quite, quite sure - you're giving people the oppertunity to plug their favourite monasteries, something they'd probably pay for

(Yes, of course I am currently trying how I can spin "cloistered" and "Latin" into "active Dominican in England" or "SSVM". By the way, did I tell you that Dominicans and Blue Sisters are awesome?)

Fides, you are not a bother and I'm not sure how you got that out of what I said. In re-reading my post, I don't think I made it clear that most of my disturbance was coming from what the priest was asking you to do. Yes, I did say I thought that caution should be exercised...and perhaps what preceded it was too harsh....if so, I apologize to you...it was not meant to be a personal attack and again, I do think that you are doing your best to be helpful...and yes, you came to the right place for information...but I don't think you should have been put in the position you are in. That's all.

Pax

I don't think there’s anything wrong about this priest asking assistance for young women who come to him asking for vocational help.

First, usually a priest who is the Vocations Director for a Diocese is more specifically the director for young men discerning diocesan priesthood - at least that's how it is in the Archdiocese of Chicago. But for those discerning religious life, both men and women, you usually go another route, and it's usually a bit more complicated, as there's just so many communities out there and different ways of life, etc.

When I was first discerning religious life, I went that route of seeking what the Archdiocese offered for those discerning and attended the annual Diocesan Vocations Retreat. But it was really very general with only a few sisters from different communities who attended, and no one who knew much about the different cloistered contemplative communities. And the Archdiocese of Chicago is generally pretty good, though very big. Also from my experience talking with a few priests in the diocesan offices, many times they don't generally know as much about all the specifics when it comes to different communities and charisms. Often they are very aware of the communities within the Archdiocese, but not too many others. So it ends up being a lot more helpful to talk with someone who's more totally concentrated on this. So that's what organizations like the Institute on Religious Life are there for.

So anyway, it seems reasonable for a priest to ask help from someone who may be able to spend a little more time researching communities, and offering suggestions to get them started, apart from spiritual direction, which it doesn’t sound Fides is being asked to give at all. Usually it ends up that people discerning religious life do most of this research on their own.

Some dioceses do have a lot more to offer than others, like the Diocese of La Crosse, which has a great priest, Fr. Samuel Martin, who does Nun Runs usually twice a year to really great communities across the Midwest, and they even have a House of Discernment for women. Actually I just realized from their site, they have a separate Office of Consecrated Life, whose director is a Franciscan Sister from Alton, IL, than the Office of Vocations, which is specifically for vocations to the diocesan priesthood. This is the same for Chicago. But with the Diocese of Colorado Springs, they don’t have this. So they have to work with what they have, and we have to be there to help. So I think it’s great what you’re doing, Fides. Maybe something bigger will grow from it, like getting a whole other Office in the Diocese specifically for the Consecrated Life.

But again, this brings up the point on how important organizations like the Institute on Religious Life are. I would definitely refer people to them ( http://www.religiouslife.com ) I remember back when I was first trying to figure out where to look, I did the advanced search on their site, and it really helped. God bless!

fides, you've done nothing wrong in asking for help here. we are to pray for our priests. if we must criticize, we should do it in private. you have been asked to do something marvelous. you are an instrument of the Lord and there is nothing wrong with that. priests aren't superheroes. they're people too.

I agree especially with Margaret Clare. Even my spiritual director, who knows TONS of religious Sisters and is a director for some of the Sisters in the diocese (and the two diocese nearby), isn't in depth familiar with every order, every charism, and especially not every monastery. I mean, think about it... unless you've actually visited a monastery, you'd have no idea that there were differences between each one. Look how much a Carmelite monastery can vary from one city to the next: many even have different constitutions!
So, fides, I think there's nothing wrong with what you're doing. You're merely acting as a friend who is helping this woman to sort out information (and there's a LOT out there!). I've done it with my friends, as I'm certain others have here. I'm no spiritual director, but by speaking with someone, I can help them match what they think they're looking for with orders that begin to fit that description. It's up to the SD to help them discern if that order/the religious life is what their soul needs and was created for.
As long as the priest isn't asking you to be an SD to this woman, I don't see any harm in you helping her.

Thanks for the website - i only knew about the CMSWR one - i am compiling a list of information you guys have generously offered to pass along to her.


And, for everyone else - thanks for your support and prayers - this stuff's new to me, and i was worried i might be upsetting the serious discerners in here. The charity you guys are showing in this thread is inspiring.

Yes - the vocations director is also a full-time pastor who handles the seminarians as a second full-time job for the diocese. Prayers for him are greatly appreciated!

Thanks so much for your help, ladies!!

in Christ.

I forgot to ask- Is she interested in Novus Ordo Latin or in the TLM? I believe there was a list of TLM communities going around a while ago.

Oops. That was me. Sorry