Hello.
This is only my second day officially posting, but I have been a lurker for quite a while. My life turned around yesterday when I read the thread on Consecrated Virginity and took the time to research the notes and quotes provided by Rising Suns (and others).
I immediately scheduled Confession, because I realized I was on the wrong road, headed straight to sin (and have been sinning in thought) and as was so wisely put, I was headed for INFECTION.
My Dad took me when he got home, and boy, was I in for a big surprise at Confession!
When I called to make the appointment, my priest scheduled me. However, the Pastor had to hear my Confession instead because "my" Priest had to make a sick call. "My" priest knew what was up, and was prepared. He even suggested that I pray to St. Maximilian Kolbe in case of further temptations before I got there. (Which I did.)
The Pastor saw things very differently. He would not give me absolution, because, according to him, I have not sinned. I finally confessed something that was indeed a sin (which was true and I have done but was minor compared to what else I had confessed) and I did get absolution. This did not go well. Because, then, he told me that I am immature and not ready to make a decision about my future in religious life. (I am 14, almost 15) He also said that my "fascination" (which is what he called it!) with all matters of purity and chastity indicated an overly scrupulous personality!
I was OUTRAGED. I asked him if we could speak outside of Confession, because I wanted to show him Phatmass and other items on the internet. Don't worry, my Dad was with us, so I was not alone with him.
I was excited to show him the Consecrated Virgin thread. He barely looked at it, and asked if he could speak to my father in front of me.
Practicing obedience and humility, I immediately said yes.
He told my father that I needed immediate mental health help. MY DAD AGREED!
I got very upset and cried, which I realize now was not exactly mature, so that did not help my case. I did manage to compose myself quickly, though.
The Pastor at our parish has always been somewhat "soft" I believe. He has a degree in psychology (PHD) and he is also a former Ordered priest; which he jokes about. He often tells stories of being in the Order and how "hard" it was! (I do not think this is funny.) "My" priest has only been ordained for two years, yet, it is him that I trust and place my soul. He has the spirit of strength, fortitude and courage. He can speak Latin, too.
My Dad and the Pastor thought that I was very hasty in calling all of my friends and then canceling the date that I canceled. Don't worry, the Pastor did not reveal anything that I said in Confession, my DAD told him that. (They actually laughed at me.)
The Pastor said that I need to relax and "allow life to unfold around me." (What does that mean? Let sin rain upon me?) He said that if I want to be a good religious, I need to have human experiences (like SEX? IS THAT WHAT HE MEANT?!) I'm sorry I am yelling, but I guess you can all tell that I am upset.
Again, I attempted to show him the thread that got me on the RIGHT track. He laughed - AGAIN! He said that I am falling for an even bigger sin in trying to "reduce life to black/white answers and there is NO SUCH THING!" He said if I seriously want to be in ministry to others, I need to have compassion, and the understanding that God is merciful. (Sound familiar?) He said that we ALL SIN. He basically said, "Get over it," but not in those words.
At that, I stopped listening, and very politely (after all, he is the Pastor) left and went to the car.
My Dad took me home in silence.
The rest of the night, I said the Rosary and fasted from dinner. My Mom didn't say anything, but I know that my Dad told her.
Before I said I am very sensitive, and I am. I am also quite intelligent. I have above normal intelligence and am in an accelerated program at my school. I most likely will graduate high school before I am sixteen. I gave advice yesterday to Veritas telling her that she was lucky to be undergoing conflict because it means the enemy is fighting. I believe the enemy is here, too, and I see the blessing in that.
However, I am now in a difficult position.
My Dad and my Pastor think I need help. (My Mom probably does too but won't say anything yet)
I cannot enter an Order until I am eighteen unless I get my parents' permission. If I do apply to an Order, they are going to want a letter from my Pastor, which - you guessed it - obviously won't be coming.
I am SCARED. I think my parents are going to force me to date. I don't want, as Rising Suns put it, to even have SUSPICION. I want to be above board, in every sense of the word. I want to remain PURE. I want to make sure that I don't get any BAD ideas in my head, which will then lead to temptation, and I want to guard my holiness with every ounce of strength that I have. The Pastor said self abuse is not a mortal sin, and YET IT IS. I feel myself being very weak in some ways, and I don't know if I can completely resist temptation, so I believe it is best to avoid the near occasion of sin.
How can the Pastor of a big Church just rewrite the rules? How could he laugh at me? What am I going to do to safeguard my purity and make sure that I remained UNSTAINED? That is my only goal right now and I fear I am not getting any help, most especially from the people that I SHOULD BE GETTING it from. MY parents.
I guess this is a very long, long post. I am sorry for taking up so much time, but I had to say all of this and BEG for prayers, BEG for guidance and BEG for the Holy Ghost to give me strength!
Do any of you have problems safeguarding your purity?
I realize I have asked a lot of questions.
I use my Mom's computer and email account because I have chosen to not have my own email account as another way of protecting my holiness. Before yesterday, it was general holiness. After yesterday, it became a fight for the whiteness of my soul. Every email I get, my Mom can see. I don't know how PM's work, but do they come into the email account? I don't want my Mom to see anything private regarding this situation. I guess the best thing to do is answer on this thread because she doesn't know my screen name.
Please, I beg you all. PRAY FOR ME. I do not want to be infected with sin, especially against chastity which would prevent me from giving ALL to GOD. Again, the priest said this is not true. I could go on forever, telling everybody what he said. Believe me that it was not good. Also, should I write a letter to the Cardinal and tell him what kind of a Pastor he has? One that doesn't take sinning very seriously!!?
Thank you, God Bless You.
Beatus

Beatus,

God is good and merciful, so I think that, while it is good to be cautious and alert to temeptations, being panic-stricken and overwrought about purity and danger are not signs of the peace and grace that comes from God. Sexuality is a gift of God and a part of who we are as physical, emotional and spiritual children of God.

I wonder if you have a spiritual director or someone older and wiser who might be a resource to you for guidance and reflection on a how to integrate all these aspects of humanity in a mature and holy way. Viewing every sexual thought as infection and danger seems to me to make the whole topic more scary and to give it more power to do harm than is necessary for someone who is spiritually well-grounded.

But hey, that's just my two cents...

Graciela

You have gone through exactly what I did at the age of 14. My mother laughed at me, and she got angry. I at least had my Godmother on my side. I basically became silent about my intentions, went about my schooling, and maintained my purity the best I could. I said the purity prayer everyday, and took the part about shielding my eyes, the windows to my soul, from anything that might dim the luster of a heart that should only mirror Christ-like purity.

I did that. When something objectionable came on TV, I turned the channel, or turned my eyes. I removed myself from locker room conversations, and protected myself from things in magazines and newspapers. I did this privately. No one really understood that I was protecting myself, so they didn't give me a hard time. I only discussed things with my Godmother. People thought I didn't date because I was too busy with my schoolwork.

I think it is wise of you to avoid dating at such a young age and to protect yourself from sin by using your mother's email account. I am sure your parents are very appreciative of these decisions you have made, even if they do not let you know.

When the priest suggested getting to know the world better I don't think he meant sex or any type of thing like that, but he might have meant dating and shopping and taking part in frivilous activities most 15 year old girls take part in (and these things aren't bad, just frivilous). He sees that as healthy and I am sure he sincerely only wants what is best for you. I am not a priest or spiritual director, but from what I have read you have made a good and wise decision to strive toward holiness, in even the smallest ways, seeking to give up vanity and anything that could stain you - even frivilous shopping and young dating and silly things like that. After a bit more prayer about what has happened, speak to your spiritual director about what happened. He will be able, with God's grace, to instruct you - far better then anyone here. No, I don't think it would be best to write the Cardinal, but a very good thing to do would be to pray for the priest you spoke too. It is difficult going to Confession to a priest that does not know you very well and does not know truly what God is calling you too. It might be difficult sometimes for them to give you the best advice and instruct you. Don't worry too much about this until your able to speak to your regular spiritual director, who I am sure (knowing you the way he does and having that special relationship with you) will be better able to clear up things you have been struggling with and now address these things your pastor put before you.

I am very sorry you were laughed at and made fun of and said to possibly be mentally unstable. Christ was mocked and made fun of too, and it would not be the first time a person with great zeal and love for our Lord was said, because of that, to not be "healthy" or "regular." Offer these things to Christ... perhaps for the priest and perhaps for those virtues you are striving for and desire so ardently?

You seem very open with your parents. That is good. Continue to obey them, as you know, this is what our Lord wants. Know that whatever they wish of you is the will of God, unless it is sinful. They love you very much. Sometimes when adults are put in places like that in front of a pastor they kind of go along with it and laugh and they don't know what to say. Perhaps that happened. I know it hurt you very much, but I am sure (and I think you know too) that wasn't their intention. They love you, and our Lord has given you them to guide you and act as your superiors and to reveal to you His will for you in your day-to-day life. It can be difficult being a parent, especially a parent of a child that our Lord has chosen only for Himself. Be patient with them.

Speak with your spiritual director about all of these things and also the fasting and things. Great penances and fasts should always be discussed with the sd before taking it on. If you can get a copy of the biography or autobiography of St. Gemma Galgani, I believe you would truly enjoy it. Of course, maybe it would be best to discuss reading that with your sd first as well.

You have to remember your young in today's world's standards and that although our Lord is taking you very seriously and your good priest is, some may not. Perhaps speaking to your spiritual director about prudence in speaking to others about Christ and these desires you have in your heart?

”Let no one despise you for your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity.” - 1 Timothy 4:12

”So flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.” - 2 Timothy 2:22

God bless you and Our Lady keep you.

I think TotusTuusMaria gave great advice. Don't lose heart. You're in our prayers

Beatus,
After reading some of your other posts I thought I might respond to this one. First, I would like to congratulate you on your openness to God's will. Despite His great graces, I kept my vocation secret at your age for fear of criticism and humiliation from family and friends. Essentially, I spent YEARS publicly denying someone who I knew loved me very much. Because of this, I'm always very happy to see that there are people your age who are more "on the ball" than I was. Also, I know how obnoxious it is to be told in confession that your sins aren't really sins. That being said, there are a couple points in your posts so far, not just this one, that I would like to see clarified.

First, a degree in psychology is not a bad thing. Fr. Benedict Groeschel is a good example. Similarly, being a former member of a religious order isn't necessarily a bad thing either. I don' t know the individual case of your pastor, but there are many people who left their orders before making final vows. This is not shameful. Similarly, it is not shameful to find the religious life "hard". Sacrifice is sacrifice.

Second, the fact that your priest speaks Latin is not relevant.

Third, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that having "human experiences" means having sex, or even dating. I go out in a group of friends and have "human experiences" fairly regularly. The situation is not optimal-- no one else is a practicing Catholic. This means that I usually need to guard my purity by calling it a night much earlier than the others. I can't recommend this for everyone, but it is working in my situation.

Fourth, while I acknowledge that the entrance requirements of a particular religious community are not my concern, I am unaware of any official church teaching that disqualifies non-virgins from the religious life or priesthood. The inclination towards the same sex that you mentioned in another post is a disorder of a different nature. (Think of St. Augustine here.)

My next point addresses the same post. I'm not quite sure why you felt the need to place the word lady in quotes.

Finally, a word about cutting off communication with the opposite sex-- unless you pursue a contemplative vocation you will probably have contact with men as a religious. If you are unable to handle this situation chastely, it WILL be an obstacle to your vocation. I also wouldn't say that the desire to date is sinful.

Pray for me and I will pray for you.

I've known lots of good nuns who have dated - some were even engaged to be married before finally responding to God's call, in fact Sr. M. Faustina of the Carmelites in LA was engaged. It IS possible to be chaste and to date, and I would bet that most orders want to know that you HAVE dated. I'll keep your intention in my prayers.

I think that you are very young to be this serious. It is a good thing to develop a relationship with Jesus at any age. It seems that you need time to develop yourself as a person, which is what your parents and the priests are saying. You cannot run away from the world,nor from the opposite sex. No one can force you to date, like no one can force you to sin against chastity.
I think that some counseling would do you some good. Do not run from that. You are very young, and you may not want to hear this, but you need some help getting yourself through this difficult time. I would thank your parents and have them arrange for you to see a counselor as soon as possible.
My prayers join yours.

Beatus,
Ave Maria.

I would offer my own advice, however I fear I will not be able to articulate myself properly, or rather, that my humanness will get in the way. What I can say for certain is that it sounds to me that God wants to perfect you, and has been giving you very special graces towards this end, graces not given to all souls. I will not say more than this. I think it best to defer to a much holier person than I; a Saint who also went through similar circumstances as you are going through -- who was also told that she should date, but she knew in her heart that it belonged to Jesus alone.

Saint Faustina

"There are three things which hinder the soul from drawing profit from confession in these exceptional moments. The first thing: when the confessor has little knowledge of extraordinary ways and shows surprise if a soul discloses to him the great mysteries worked in it by God. Such surprise frightens a sensitive soul, and it notices that the confessor hesitates to give his opinion; and if it does notice this, it will not be set at peace, but will have even more doubts after confession than before, because it will sense that the confessor is trying to set it at peace while he himself is uncertain. Or else, as has happened to me, a confessor, unable to penetrate some of the soul's mysteries, refuses to hear the confession, showing a certain fear when the soul approaches the confessional. How can a soul in this state obtain peace in the confessional when it has become so oversensitive to every word of the priest? In my opinion, at times of such special trials sent by God to a soul, the priest, if he does not understand the soul, should direct it to some other experienced and well-instructed confessor. Or else he himself should seek light in order to give the soul what it needs, instead of downrightly denying it confession. For in this way he is exposing the soul to a great danger; and more than one soul may well leave the road along which God wanted it to journey. This is a matter of great importance, for I have experienced it myself. I myself began to waver; despite special gifts from God, and even though God himself reassured me, I have nevertheless always wanted to have the Church's seal as well. The second thing: the confessor does not allow the soul to express itself frankly, and shows impatience. The soul then falls silent and does not say everything [it has to say] and, by this, profits nothing. It profits even less when the confessor, without really knowing the soul, proceeds to put it to the test. Instead of helping the soul, he does it harm. The soul is aware that the confessor does not know it, because he did not allow it to lay itself open fully as regards both its graces and its misery. And so the test is ill-adapted. I have been submitted to some tests at which I have had to laugh. I will express this better thus: The confessor is the doctor of the soul, but how can a doctor prescribe a suitable remedy if he does not know the nature of the sickness? Never will he be able to do so. For either the remedy will not produce the desired effect, or else it will be too strong and will aggravate the illness, and sometimes-God forbid-even bring about death. I am speaking from my own experience because, in certain instances, it was the Lord himself who directly sustained me. The third thing: it also happens sometimes that the confessor makes light of little things. There is nothing little in the spiritual life. Sometimes a seemingly insignificant thing will disclose a matter of great consequence and will be for the confessor a beam of light which helps him to get to know the soul. Many spiritual undertones are concealed in little things. A magnificent building will never rise if we reject the insignificant bricks. God demands great purity of certain souls, and so He gives them a deeper knowledge of their own misery. Illuminated by light from on high, the soul can better know what pleases God and what does not. Sin depends upon the degree of knowledge and light that exists within the soul. The same is true of imperfections. Although the soul knows that it is only sin in the strict sense of the term which pertains to the sacrament of penance, yet these petty things are of great importance to a soul which is tending to sanctity, and the confessor must not treat them lightly. The patience and kindness of the confessor open the way to the innermost secrets of the soul."

The Saints tells us that to have a holy spiritual director is a rare grace given to few chosen souls. Cherish this deeply, if it has been given to you. Thank the Lord every day for this.

"Oh, if only I had had a spiritual director from the beginning, then I would not have wasted so many of God's graces. A confessor can help a soul a great deal, but he can also cause it a lot of harm. Oh, how careful confessors should be about the work of God's grace in their penitents' souls!"

Beatus,
Saint Teresa once stated; "Let nothing distress you. He who possesses God lacks nothing. God alone suffices." If God is calling you to perfection -- up the rocky slope to calvary -- then it is important to understand that this will be your lot for life; affliction, humiliation, misunderstanding, and trials. If you are called to this degree of holiness -- to be a victim soul-- then count on being misunderstood. Your good intentions will be misunderstood as bad, and even used against you. But in this you will find joy. God will give you the necessary graces to embrace this way. As Saint Faustina said; "Sufferings, adversities, humiliations, failures and suspicions that have come my way are splinters that keep alive the fire of my love for You, O Jesus." This is a great grace, and the first step on this road is trust. Please understand that fear shows a lack of trust. God told Saint Faustina that what hurts Him the most, beyond the most scandalous and grave sins, is lack of trust on the part of chosen souls.

"[Jesus told me] 'The flames of mercy are burning Me clamoring to be spent; I want to pour them out upon these souls. Jesus complained to me in these words, 'Distrust on the part of souls is tearing at My insides. The distrust of a chosen soul causes Me even greater pain; despite My inexhaustible love for them they do not trust Me. Even My death is not enough for them. Woe to the soul that abuses these [gifts]."

Do not allow your fear to turn to distrust.



Pray for him, as I will for you. The world will tell you many things that you must not pay heed to. The world will tell you that you are over-scrupulous; that you must not be so concerned about sin; that you need more "wordly" experience; that you should date. Through all this, you must cling tight to the heart of Jesus, as your only love, and your only desire. The Church teaches us that a vocation to the consecrated life is a vocation "to become perfect". This is nothing to be made light of. There is no higher calling than this. I will pray that you continue in this vein; that the dust of the world may not rub off onto you. If God sees your good will, He will handle the rest.

Beatus, I ask you ernestly, please pray for me.

.

Beautus,

I commend you for your desire to be true to Jesus! But pay attention to what your parents and your pastor are saying. These are people who are responsible for your well-being, who love you and who want the best for you. I would especially not dismiss the spiritual wisdom of your pastor. "Your" priest is not any holier because he knows how to speak Latin (I know you did not mean to suggest this, but that is just how it came off). In fact your pastor may be somewhat wiser than he is, as he has had many more years in the ministry. When he says to let life unfold around you, I am sure he means you need more time to mature. My parents say this to me, too, when they think I am starting to get ahead of myself with my plans for my life. He is right to say that you need more "human experiences," and I am sure he did not mean sex, but merely that you are not a complete person yet. This is why almost all religious orders require you to be at least 18 before entering. Some like the Sister of Life require you to be at least 21! These are very wise and prudent standards.

I am not an expert in psychology or spiritual direction or anything else really and so you may not consider me qualified to say this. Zeal for purity is absolutely neccesary, but the panic-stricken tone of what you wrote (viewing passing sexual thoughts as potential "infection" etc) suggests actual fear. Jesus does not intend for the struggle against impurity to result in terror or panic. Don't get me wrong, "fear of the Lord" or "fear of offending God" is a good thing, but if you are literally feeling scared of temptation to the point that it is inhibiting you socially, that is a different kind of fear, and something is wrong. If you have a spiritual director he or she would be an invaluable person to consult about this, but if your parents also suggest a counselor or a therapist take them up on the offer! It doesn't mean that you are weak or are "giving in" to their secular view of what your life should look like. A therapist or counselor is another person to have in your corner! The more people you have fighting on your side, the better

I think Rising Sun's advice was very good and beautiful. Thank you Rising Sun for posting.

Prayers for you Beatus. We are never, ever too young to be serious about the achievement of sanctity... and the achievement of sanctity cannot be taken too seriously.

Saint Dominic Savio. Venerable Maria (Puma) a Columna Cimadevilla. Servant of God Anfrosina Berardi. Blessed Jose Sanchez Del Rio. Blessed Jacinta of Fatima. Saint Maria Goretti. Many would call them immature as well because of their age - being, all but one, years younger then you are, but their seriousness about our Lord and the achievement of sanctity for love of Christ propelled them toward holiness and sainthood.

”Let no one despise you for your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity.” 1 Timothy 4:12

”So flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.” 2 Timothy 2:22

+JMJ

Some corrections, more information and thanksgiving.
First, I would like to thank you all for answering.
Second, I would like to announce something which unintentionally was mis-understood. I am a male. I went back and read my post, and I realize why many of you would have thought I am a girl instead of being a guy. First, I have used the word "religious" instead of priest. I am not yet sure if God is actually calling me to the priesthood. It might be to be a simple religious brother, but whatever the case, I know I am being called to a religious Order. (Not the Diocesean Kind) Also, I mentioned that I cried. I know that sounds like something only girls would do, but I can tell you guys cry, too. I did mention that I HAD a slight issue with self abuse, so I just assumed you would all know that I am guy because we know girls don't do that. Maybe that part you skipped over or didn't understand. It was squeeze in because I am embarrassed. And probably the fact that I am concerned about my purity and have found the desperate need to stay away from infection (which came from the Consecrated Virgin post) also made people think I must be a girl. (Also because I mentioned that I was not alone with the priest and my Dad was there. Diocesean priests are known to do things to young guys more than girls. One can never be too careful.) Back to wanting to retain my purity and that being a guy thing:
NO! Guys need to be as wary as anybody (if not more so), if they are thinking of giving themselves to God, of purity and wholeness. AND HOLINESS. When Saint Maximilian Kolbe was offered two crowns, one representing virginity and one martyrdom, he took BOTH because he saw the value of Virginity even though Martyrdom was a guarantee into heaven.
Since this is the thread that I started, and many people have said things to me here, I thought I would answer here.
Ok. Thanks to the people who also think I need mental help, and yes, I guess I being sarcastic which is probably not the most charitable. But I do not believe I need mental help. Look at the FACTS. Re-read the Consecrated Virgin post and you will see the hard, cold facts. No, I will not be a Consecrated Virgin because I am a guy, but the truth is, MAYBE if the Lord God is calling me to the Holy Priesthood, one day I will be in the position to actually be CONSECRATE the HOST. I WOULD BE IN THE POSITION TO HOLD THE BLESSED SACRAMENT! Wouldn't you want an unstained, uninfected soul to do this? This "fascination" as the Pastor called it and has sort of been said in so many words here by some of you, is not legitimate. Not to make anybody angry, but the TRUTH is that Priests are more important and have the highest Vocation of all because they make the Church possible. Now. Again, I do not know if I am called to such holiness. It might be that I am called to be a humble and silent Brother. Maybe in contemplative life. I do not know. I am open to God's call on that one, and He, and the Blessed Mother, will lead me. I do not want to presume that I am going to be a Priest when God might ask something else of me. But I do know that HE is asking me to please forsake all others for His Glory.
Another one. This is on another thread (Carmelite pictures of new novices) and I will go back there but it was brought up here. I put the word "lady" in quotes because in my opinion, she is not a lady. That is why I did that. She is way past twenty one, and who knows what her story is, but definitely she has not been pure. For the person who wonders if she was turned down by her lack of virginity, yes, that is what she told us. I can only tell you what she told me. If you are still interested, ask Sister Timothy Marie who gave a talk to us.
More. The comment that a priest speaking Latin doesn't mean much is very wrong to my way of thinking. I have been studying Latin for two years now and have barely scratched the surface. Guess what? It is the official language of our FAITH. It is important. Anybody who speaks Latin tells me in that alone that they care about our FAITH OUR HISTORY OUR CATHOLIC identity.
The Pastor complaining. So the Order was hard. (He was a Passionist). He should be offering it up to God instead of joking about it and complaining. Those sacrifices and penances were supposed to be offered to the poor souls and for the sinners. What happened to them? Joking about it and complaining about it reduces the penance that he was supposed to be suffering. Complaining about sacrifices and hardships waters down the penance. That is a given.
As for my comment that the Pastor is a Psychologist. Well, I don't think that is bad necessarily, but I have come to realize (mostly from reading Catholic internet sites) that aside from Father Benedict, being a pyschologist can definitely soften one's commitment to the FAITH and can give people a "way out" for bad behavior. It focuses too much on emotional needs and not enough on spiritual. Just the facts.
Rising Suns and a few others seem to get me. Thanks for all the links and quotes, Risings Suns, I have already printed them and am going to study them.
Really, I have only three years to wait before I can apply somewhere on my own. I am going to tell the Priest ("my" Priest) exactly what happened with the Pastor, for those of you who think I need someone older and wiser to guide me, which I agree with. He is a very Orthodox Priest (he wears a cassock) and he is doing his best in a sinful world.
Hopefully, if he stays at our parish for three years and he agrees to be my formal spiritual director, then I can use him as one of my references. I know he will be outraged at what the Pastor did, and he will not be too happy. So I have my spiritual director, I think. But at the least, I will have an ally.
And in ending: My Mom woke me up this morning. Of course, my Dad did talk to her. Now she wants me to get counseling too. In a bizarre turn of events, some of you have said I sound panic-striken. Those were the exact words my Mom used. She said I acting like I was "panic-striken." However, I am proud to say that I am panic striken. Why not? (And thanks again Rising Suns for the information about fear.) The enemy is prowling around me as we speak, trying to destroy my good intentions, my quest for holiness, my desire for purity. I have now regained my strength (I have asked St. Maximilian Kolbe to help me be a Knight of Christ as he was) and I have girded myself for a fight.
I might not be able to avoid some kind of counseling, though of course I laid the ground rule that it must be an Orthodox Catholic with a sparkling reputation.
I think if anybody reads the whole thread, which I have printed out (and I did have to black out some of the posters comments because they did not follow the teachings of the Church and were really just opinions, so when you read it you will see what I mean), you will naturally have to come to the same conclusion and spirit adjustment that I did.
They are calling me for breakfast. I just wanted to give you all an update, and thank you all for answering. Even those of you who are in the side of the Pastor and don't see the struggle and spiritual battle I am undergoing, I thank you, for you did take the time.
Even if some of you are not Virgins, I still appreciate your thoughts and your comments.
Pax,
Beatus

PS I know the moderators always say "This is not the debate table." I am not debating. Just giving facts. Hard, cold, true facts. Check them.

Hi Beatus! Praised be Jesus Christ!

I didn't get to read thoroughly through all the posts here, (edit: I just noticed your last post, so my reply here is in reply to your first post. Sorry that I also assumed you are a young woman) but I did read yours, and first would recommend another saint for you to pray to, St. Maria Goretti (& Alessandro Serenelli), whom you've probably heard about already. I was very devoted to her when I was around your age, and chose her as my Confirmation saint. I highly recommend the documentary on her, Fourteen Flowers of Pardon (also available on VHS at a cheaper price on amazon - and there's a lot on her attacker who had a conversion, Alessandro Serenelli)

also, check out the Serenellians - http://www.pornnomore.com/

Regarding dating, I've never heard of any order that would want a young women to have dated first - in other words, not that I am saying in any way that a community would not like if a woman had dated - no - but if a young woman had never dated, I've never heard of an order that would frown upon this. And we have thousands of saints who entered religious life as examples.

As I think someone posted above, no one can force you to date, and if they try to, they are totally out of line, and you have the right to resist that. Love is supposed to be chosen freely. And personally I think it's a good idea to not get into serious relationships at your age, especially not just because all the "normal" young women your age are (which I know you are not doing, I'm just talking generally here) Young people are trying to grow up way too fast these days, and personally I think it's good to first develop into an independent person, though not independent from God of course, and work on your relationship with Him and your family, and your duties to them first before dating. And also, dating is discerning a vocation to marriage. But if you feel the Lord calling you to become His spouse already, it is definitely not necessary to be dating.

One thing though that I remember in a general questionnaire from a great traditional Poor Clare community, is they asked something like .. okay, let me get the exact question ...


This is interesting, as I believe they want to see that your motivation for wanting to enter religious life is not that you have a problem with marriage, but that you indeed have a true calling from God, and want to give yourself totally to Him, as a bride to her husband, through the evangelical counsels of poverty, chastity & obedience, for the sake of the Kingdom of God. Though yes, it is the teaching of the Church that the religious life (/celibate priesthood) is objectively a higher calling than the vocation of marriage, which Rising_Suns has a page about here: http://www.religious-vocation.com/index.html (and yes, the priesthood is the highest calling) But of course you have to have the gift of a vocation to this life from God. It's not really something you chose on your own, though your free will obviously plays a great part in entering this state in life.

Next, on another point you made, yes, it is definitely a great error for a priest to say that masturbation is not a sin, if I'm interpreting correctly what you wrote. The Church has very clearly defined this as grave matter. I would suggest you pray very much for your pastor as TotusTuusMaria suggested, but also if it comes up again, you could show him exactly what the Catechism says about this in paragraph, 2352. Again it is really a very very serious error for a priest to say this is not a sin, and to misguide his flock in this way. Personally if I heard a priest in my area say that, I probably wouldn't hesitate to report it to our local auxiliary bishop.

Next, I wonder if the priest at your parish whom you are comfortable talking with would have any resources on maybe talks in your area or something on John Paul II's Theology of the Body. I haven't read a great deal on it, but have a basic understanding of it, and know that it is great for understanding the Church's teaching on the gift of human sexuality, which is totally related to the religious life. The book I've heard most people recommend to start out with is Christopher West's Theology of the Body For Beginners. And our own Sr. Mary Michael from the School Sisters of St. Francis is an expert, I believe, in this field, http://www.panhandlefranciscans.org/TOB.html

Regarding going to see a counselor, as some here have recommended, if you do end up going to talk with someone, you would definitely want to go to an orthodox Catholic person who would give you the correct feedback about your questions and not misguide you. I'm sure that many secular psychologists are very good in their field, but when it comes to the teachings of Holy Mother Church, especially in this area, it's certain that many, if not most, psychologists/counselors out there would disagree with a lot of what the Church teaches. Anyway, I know you totally get what I mean. Really, it sounds like the best thing to do in this whole situation is to talk with that priest you are comfortable with in your parish.

Finally, it's wonderful how determined you are to safeguard your purity and innocence as a child of God. God bless you!

Margaret Clare


P.S. And those are some great quotes Rising_Suns provided from St. Faustina's diary. I would highly recommend you read that. I still need to sit down myself and read through the whole of it.

I'm one who assumed you were a girl, and I apologize. I suppose the way our society is, I assume that only females worry about maintaining their virginity. It must be so much harder on males because societal expectations are different.

I don't think that you have mental illness, but if you want to possibly enter the priesthood, you should get used to seeing psychologists, because there is a lot of that ahead of you. With everything that has happened in the church, many more safeguards are in place.

One of my favorite pastors told me that when he was a young priest, there were several priests in each church, so younger priests had built in mentors. Now that is not the case. He belonged to a priest support group, and never missed a meeting. It is a lonely life in a lot of ways. He once told me that he had accepted the idea that he would die alone, and he was right, he did, unfortunately.

When it comes to therapists, you have to be as careful as if you were choosing a brain surgeon. Bad ones can do a lot of damage. If the first one is unacceptable, then fire them. Make that a condition of going to one, that you have veto authority if the therapist becomes devaluing of your ideals.

The stronger the vocation, sometimes means the stronger dark forces will fight against you. When it comes to your parents, be respectful but firm. Be a broken record. When Christ wanted to teach us how to live with each other, he told parables, but when he wanted to teach a truth about himself, he basically repeated the same thing, over and over again, and then stepped back and told people to take it or leave it. Don't debate with them, don't argue, don't get emotional. Just repeat the sames things over again, calmly, maturely, and eventually they will either accept your decision, or you will be old enough to make your own decisions without their approval.

some other practical things, and quibbles:

You have some stereotypes, understandable in someone your age. The religious brothers are highly competent, smart and well-trained these days. not necessarily' humble and silent'. They have fallen on hard times, like the sisters, which is too bad.

Another boy on another forum was having a LOT of trouble with masturbation; it turns out that he also played a lot of videogames, ie was in his room alone a lot. This is a bad idea. I note that you're taking advanced placement courses-good, take them and study a lot and do well. Can you study in a library, rather than your room. Can you go out for extra-curriculars, clubs, sports, drama? It will be good for you, and provide a lot of distraction away from unacceptable thoughts.

Sixteen is too young to graduate from high school. Fill up your curriculum, take classes at a local college, do anything to avoid this. You will miss out on too much and won't mature properly.

Technically, you can apparently enter an order at 18 but I think an order worth its salt wouldn't accept you until you've had some college or work experience. Boys mature later than girls and for them it's especially unwise to enter that young. I don't care what they used to do in Europe; these are different times. And they matured earlier in Europe.

I apologise too for thinking you were a girl. I believe I might have been the only one to say you were a girl on the forum. Sorry. I was confused by the consecrated virginity thread. I think it is wonderful your trying to remain pure for our Lord and protect your baptismal innocence so that you can offer the Mass, hopefully, with an unstained soul. Some of the things you said remind me of St. Anthony Mary Claret. Although he is not well known for it, he was big on purity and staying away from even the possible near occassion to sin.

I absolutely agree with what Margaret Clare said about - if you must go to counseling - getting a good, Catholic conselor who understands these things. I kind of cringed when you mentioned possibly having to go to one because of the secular way the conselor would view things. They might not understand this at all - they probably wouldn't. I really think a good spiritual director is best. Perhaps, maybe you could ask your parents if they would feel better if your priest conseled you.

About psychology though, I was reading Adolphe Tanquerey's The Spiritual Life and I have been astounded by how much he appeals to psychology and basically says a good priest has a knowledge of physchology. Psychology, he points out, is very good to have when one is a priest (and recommended) because it comes in great service in leading souls and in understanding, as a Spiritual Director, the ascetical and mystical life. Physchology is just the the study of the human person's mental state and process. There is a good kind psychology. Secular psychology is bad and has lost a sense of sin, but there is good psychology.

This site is very, very good: http://www.chastitysf.com/
http://www.ipsciences.edu/

I can only say a few things from my experiences for what it is worth. I went through similar experiences as a young girl right at the height of puberty. My parish priests were old time pre-Vatican II men, and they limited me to confession once a week, I was pestering them so much with my concerns. It may not be clear to you now, but because you are developing from a boy to a young man, your normal hormonal changes are running full steam. It can cause a lot of temptation of thought in otherwise nice young guys. God knows we can only handle so much, and then He supplies the rest, including His infinite mercy when we need it.
As the mother/survivor of 3 former teenagers, I can only say that your parents/pastor want the best for you, and that if you are suffering as a result of these concerns for your purity, so are they. Allow them to help you a bit here.

My dear brother in Christ,
First, know of my prayers for you, your situation, and your desire for purity.
Second, I want to point out that regarding the state of your spiritual, physical, emotional, or psychological wellbeing, no one is "against" you or "on your Pastor's side." It may seem that way (and as one who was an angry teenager, I completely understand), but you must realize that they are not against you, they just do not see the situation as you see the situation. Your pastor and your parents may not agree with you, but I truly believe that they want what is best for you. The ability to recognize that their advice is well-intentioned, even when you don't like it or agree with it, is a mark of maturity.

That said, I want to reiterate what someone else said about reading and studying the Theology of the Body. You seem very intelligent and very articulate for someone of your young age, and I believe that you would be able to understand some of the very important and complex theological and philosophical arguments contained in it. I also suggest that you begin with a "TOB for beginners" book, just so that you can begin to break it down (Christopher West was mentioned, there are many other authors on the subject).
I also want to tackle a few things that you have said from a theological standpoint. There are a few things that worry me theologically that you have said, that I would like to comment on here.
Some of your comments made in this post (and in others) have dangerously walked the line of Manichaeism, a heresy which is essentially: "Spirit = good, body = bad." One important point stressed by the late John Paul the Great was this resurfacing of Manichaeism in our Church because of the overly sexualized media with which we are continually bombarded. The body, however, is not bad. If it were bad, if the body were inherently evil, Jesus would not have assumed a body at all, because God cannot unite himself with that which is inherently evil (nor could he create something that was inherently evil).
This point also leads me to see a confusion on your part between temptation and sin. While I greatly admire your zeal for purity of body and soul and thus freedom from sin, you incorrectly equate sin with temptation. You said:

Even Jesus experienced temptation, it's recorded in the Bible; Jesus even experienced sexual temptation. (How do I know this??? Gregory of Nyssa, one of the early Church fathers, said that "What God has not assumed, God has not saved." This means that if Jesus did not experience sexual temptation and sexuality, they have not been redeemed by his death on the cross.) Temptation, however, is not sin. Sin is freely and consciously acting
on temptation. While sin can be committed in thought, having a temptation is not necessarily a sin of thought. For example, lets say I begin to think of sexual intercourse, perhaps as a temptation, perhaps not. Well, this thought is not necessarily a sin. If this thought pops into my head from nowhere, and I turn to the Lord and say "My God, you have created us so beautifully!," this thought is not a sin. If however, I deliberately think of sexual intercourse as a way to arouse myself, that is sin. A good confessor will help you establish the difference between sin and temptation, and because only sins can be forgiven (as they are chosen); this is the reason I'm assuming that your Pastor would not absolve you, because by the grace of God, you had not acted on your temptations, you had merely been tempted.

You also said: I'm not sure where to begin with this. I see a few problems. The first is the aforementioned difficulty distinguishing temptation and sin. The second is that you have placed sexual sin on a more severe level than other sins. This is not the case. It may be a greater sin for a someone to lie or to be disobedient than for a prostitute to sleep with another man, but either way, it is not up to us to label one as greater or lesser. The severity of sin depends soul to soul, situation to situation, and it depends on how much that mortal sin (assuming it was one) caused the person to freely turn from God. My third problem is that there are no unstained, uninfected souls, only those of our Lord and our Lady. We all were born with the stain of mortal sin, and we all have the tendency to sin because of our fallen nature. I would prefer not to have a priest in the state of mortal sin consecrate the host, but probably not for the reasons you think. They priest, because of his consecration, will be able to consecrate to bread and the wine into the Flesh and Blood of Jesus Christ, whether he is in a state of mortal sin or not. The host that I consume will be no less than Christ's Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity if the priest is in a state of mortal sin, and no more than his Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity if the priest is free from mortal sin. For the sake of his soul, however, I would not want him to be in a state of mortal sin, nor consecrating the Eucharist in that state.
Another problem is that you forget the power of reconciliation. When the priest says "I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" all sins confessed have been forgiven. Completely forgiven. So no matter what the priest had done before or after he was ordained, as long as he has confessed them, I hold him in no lower esteem. In fact, those who have found healing and forgiveness and are living holy lives after a life filled with sin give me hope for my soul which is so prone to sin. So to answer your question "Would I rather have the host consecrated by a priest who is a virgin?" My answer is twofold: for the sake of his soul, I hope he has never committed any sin, but if he had at one point been sexually promiscuous but has sought forgiveness? it makes me no difference: he is still an ordained minister of the Church and I am still receiving the Precious body and blood of our Lord.

I will continue below as I've exceeded the posting length.
I remain your Sister in Christ, through his most Sacred and Merciful heart,
Lauren

Beatus,

You sound much more calm and I hope you are going to take advantage of the great relationship you seem to have with your parents to really sort things out. I hope you understand that every creature's soul, except Our Blessed Lady's, has been stained with sin at some point. If you are hoping to hold the Host with hands that have never been "infected" with sin, you are hoping in vain. The good news is that God is full of mercy! Someone who commits the most grevious sins (including those of a sexual nature) who repents, and goes to Confession, is just as pure and holy in the sight of God as someone who with His grace has managed to maintain their purity without blemish. These are two forms of equally sanctifying grace. The grace to persevere, and the grace to repent when you don't persevere.

I think what concerns your parents and pastor and others is that you demonstrate a very high level of interest not only in your own purity but in other people's virginity as well. For instance, "even if some of you are not virgins, I appreciate your thoughts." On the thread about Rosalind Moss's order you noted that she might be accepting older vocations, and you stated that you hoped she would only accept women who have lived in perfect chastity. The reality is that virginity is not a precondition for religious life. The Sisters of Life simply stipulate that you have "no living children," (emphasis mine) and the order of the Visitation was of course co-founded by St. Jane, a widow. The reformed prostitute is in many ways the perfect emblem of the Christian life, a wretch saved and lifed to glory by Jesus Christ. St. Mary Magdalene was not a virgin, St. Augustine was not a virgin, St. Peter was not a virgin, MANY men in the priesthood are not virgins, especially if theirs is a second vocation.

Sorry for the general confusion about whether you were a gal or a guy. You said that because you mentioned self abuse that should have been a clue that you were a guy, because "girls don't do that." I hate to break it to you but unfortunately, yes girls DO do that. It is a very common problem for women, in fact I think we recently had a thread about that. I think because you are still so young you are a little naive and stuck on the externals (Latin and cassocks etc). If only you knew how many straight-up heretical priests I have met who speak and write beautiful Latin, some of whom are equally fond of the cassock! I have studied Latin too, and I love the Mass in Latin, but as you mature you will come to understand that outward signs do not neccesarily indicate a positive interior spiritual disposition.

I hope I do not come off as harsh on you or anything. I really appreciate that you are struggling for purity, a rare quality in a boy these days. I am a virgin too, thank God, or "a proud member of the V Club" as my college roommates would say. Please pray for me and I will pray for you

Cast all your anxieties upon Him, because He cares for you.

Jesus doesn't want you to be afraid of the Devil. God is infinite. The devil is a mere creature.

Looks like you're making sacrifices and avoiding every ocassion of sin you can think of ... great! Do everything you can. Be totally hardcore. Make no compromises. But don't have anxiety about it.

Sometimes its pride that makes a guy think: "If I'm vigilant enough, I can prevent this." . Or "That's so horrible. If I ever fell like that, I'd be infected, stained forever. I'd never be whole again. Not even God could fix me."

And that's how the devil gets in, ironic jerk that he is.

Don't be that guy, my friend.

You vs. Satan: losing battle.
Jesus vs. Satan: well, we know how that turned out.

Sometimes people who have been "infected" become great Saints. Greater and more holy than if they hadn't fallen. St. Mary Magdalen was "infected," big time. She stood next to the Immaculate Conception at the foot of the Cross.

(continued from above)
My brother,
I also want to briefly comment on two quotes from you, not from a theological standpoint, but as a Sister in Christ.
The first,

I'm not sure what facts you are referring to. Two of the holiest religious that I know, one a priest, the other a Sister, both have Doctorates in Psychology (priest = PhD, Sister = MD). Fr. Benedict is another great example. I know from them that there is no faith vs mental health as people, (some of them on Catholic websites) perceive. There are those that try to blend them where they should not be combined, this is true, but being mentally healthy and mature are necessary prerequisites to a deep spiritual life. Be careful about writing off things off as you have the mental health profession, and also use caution about presenting opinions as facts (as you seem to have done above).


I do not, under any circumstances recommend ceasing to speak with or relate to women. To do so would impair you both as a minister and as a human being. Men need women, they need to see what it means for a holy woman to live out her feminine vocation in order to know how live out his vocation as man. JPII stressed this in both the TOB and his letter Mulieris Dignitatem when he spoke of the complementarity of the sexes.
Beyond this, as a priest or religious minister, you will be working constantly with women. Even if you are in the cloister, there is the possibility of hearing confession from women. You need to know how to interact with them and how to communicate with them so that you may serve them. If you are ever a parish priest, most of your parish council and boards will be women. Unless you are a formed human being-one who knows both temptation and compassion, the depths that sin can drive one into but also the heights of God's mercy- and also a mentally and spiritually mature man, able to work with all of God's children, both men and women, you will not be able to serve God's people.


On a side note, as a seminarian or member of a religious order, you will regularly meet with both a spiritual director and a psychologist as part of your formation. It is not a sign of weakness to meet with a counselor or psychologist in addition to meeting with your S;, it is admitting that you aren't perfect and that you are willing to do what it takes to improve yourself as a human being so that you will be a good priest or brother.

You will be in my prayers.
In the hearts of Jesus and Mary, your sister in Christ,
Lauren

I second (third?) the idea of studying the theology of the body. It will give you tools to live as a human being, sexuality included, in a wholesome way, which includes dealing with your temptations in a wholesome way.
As I read your posts I had a mental image of when, sometime during one of Christopher West's video presentations, he speaks of our sexuality twisted by sin (he's holding his arms crossed and twisted vertically against his chest), and says that, rather than repressing them, trying to keep the lid on the boiling pot, which is an endeavor bound to fail, we need to ask God to take our sexuality and straighten it out so that it truly reflects image of God stamped into our bodies at creation. As he's speaking, he untwists his arms and straightens them out, until they're in the position of Christ on the cross, because to live our sexuality as it was meant to be lived is to live the cross. It is to live sacrificially, giving a free, faithful, total and fruitful gift of oneself.

Because... what I see you doing is trying to live chastely and avoid anything impure. But I also see that you're trying to accomplish this by running away from temptation or pushing it away, while at the same time constantly thinking about the dangers of it and worrying about it. This isn't a very good way to go through life. The world recognizes this and says that, therefore, we should give in. There is, however, another option; that we recognize who God created us to be and how our sexuality is meant to fit into that, and ask God to redeem our broken, twisted sexuality so that it can be the life-giving thing of beauty He created it to be.

And yes, this applies to celibates just as much as it applies to married couples.

Beatus,

I think it is so beautiful that a young man like yourself is gaurding his purity with all that he has. God bless you for that and I'm praying that you can be an example to many other young men in a world that emphasizes impurity.

I think that you've received a special grace and like the men in the parable, don't bury your graces into the ground, you must give the fruits of your graces to others. This is why I don't think it's wise to run away from women. You could be a guy that can teach young women who don't feel that their purity is worth much that their purity is in fact more valuable than anything this world has to offer. You have to be the bright light that shines for the whole world to see.

We read in Scripture that a few of Christ's closest friends were women, St. Mary Magdalen for example, and in imitation of Christ we all must try to help those who are spiritually ill. Don't you think that is why Christ spoke to the woman at the well? All his apostles thought that was pretty scandelous but what a difference it made in her life and in the lives of those whom she told her story of her encounter with Jesus.

I would like to mention that just because you are running away from temptation doesn't mean you'll be completely safe from it. Temptation will find you whether or not you've run away from it the first time or if you continually run away from it.
As soldiers of Christ we must face our temtations head on and triumph over them or else we won't get stronger. Because God is merciful and He loves us, He will give us all the graces necessary to fight the battle of temptations over impurity. Don't you think He knows how sinful and impure our world has become?

I think Maria wrote beautifully of how man and woman compliment each other and this goes for religious and non religious. This is another reason why I don't think it's wise to run away from the opposite sex. I know that the evil one is constantly putting us under trials and temptations but at the same time we have to learn to laugh in his face because just as St. Therese said, he's afraid even of a gaze of a child.

This may be a little on the extreme side but as I was reading your post you reminded me a little of Origen. I think he was deemed a heretic but he has some writings that the Church uses. Anyway, I think he was so overcome with the fear of sinning against purity that he castrated himself. I pray that you aren't has fearful of sexuality as he was. You have to understand that our sexuality is what makes us human. It doesn't mean that we have to follow our disordered desires but we have to let those desires humble us and remind us that we do need God's help and grace to overcome these temptations in order to become saints!!

I'm praying that you persevere through this trial.

Beatus,

I'll make my post short and to the point. I went through to a lesser extent of the idiocacy of what you are experiencing. Anyways, in short you are mostly correct and the Pastor and your father are mostly mistaken. #1 keep the faith and pray #2 all things will pass, even this ..one day you'll be on your own and won't have to deal w/ most of such croutons #3 practice humility and try to pick your battles ...pray for those who give you grief

remind your parents of real problems they could have with their teen, but instead they lucked out and have a well-behaved upright son.