Hello Phatmass Phamily,

My last post was about a month ago right before I was heading off for pre-postulancy week. Well, I've been back and I've been putting off writing about my experience and about my trip to CA that I went on the very next day after I had come back. In a nutshell pre-postulancy week was AMAZING! It was so beautiful and I had a very lovely time with the Sisters.
It just so happens that another pre-postulant lives about fifteen minutes away from me so her and I drove up to the motherhouse together and I confided in her how nervous I was and how many doubts I had about going there, but as soon as I walked into the motherhouse I felt completely calm. After the first day it had felt like I had been living there all my life. Upon arriving we met our postulant or novice who would be helping us throughout the week and mine was none other than Sr. Imelda Marie or FutureSoror I was really excited because I had read the post she had posted on here way back from when she went on pre-postulancy week.
If you had read my previous post I mentioned that I have been struggling with whether or not I am called to be a Dominican or if I'm called to stay within my own Rite and enter the religious community here. And the first couple of days I had still be struggling with it but as time went on, all the uncertainty pretty much went away and I finally had felt at peace.
During my trip to CA I had gone on a pilgrimage with the **Chaldean youth in San Diego to visit many of the missions that are in California. On the very first day after visiting the Santa Barbara mission my group and I went to a small 1950s themed restaurant to get a bite to eat and guess who walks in...none other than two Nashville Dominicans! I got so excited and asked them if they were Nashville Dominicans and they were so surprised that I knew that they were from Nashville and asked me if I was entering their order and I told them that I was planning on entering the DSMME and they went on to tell me that they taught at the same school as Mother Assumpta and Sr. Mary Samuel. It was great. Two days after that our Pastor took us St. Albert's Priory, a Dominican Priory where he studied for two years, and it was just awesome. It felt so great being around Dominicans and when we walked into the Chapel it looked so similar to the DSMME's Chapel that I felt like I was back in Ann Arbor. What was really sweet was that when we were all walking out of the Chapel I saw a flyer for the DSMME discernment retreats posted on the wall of the small foyer. I was so excited The very next day we went to St. Dominic's Church in San Francisco and that was just as awesome as St. Albert's Priory. Even though we were visiting Franciscan missions I felt like the pilgrimage was Dominican themed The Pastor of the Church was obviously a Dominican, Fr. Martin, and a friend of mine told him that I was going to become a Dominican and he got so happy. It was really sweet. There is a shrine of St. Jude there and they also have some of St. Jude's relics and so all of us were blessed with his relics. Fr. Martin gave me a triple blessing to bless my Dominican vocation.
After that day we joined a Chaldean diocesan youth convention in San Jose and the atmosphere was completely different than that of the pilgrimage. It was supposed to be religiously based but the young Chaldeans there didn't treat it as an opportunity to deepen their spirituality and I was very saddened by all the irreverance I saw while we were in Church. It showed so much that most of them weren't in touch with Christ and are very uneducated about Church doctrine, etc. While I was there it just made me feel like I had to teach them and that I have to minister to them and help them to get to know who Christ is. It made me re-think my vocation and ask myself how I could think of leaving the Chaldean community and enter an order where I wouldn't be directly ministering to them when the Chaldean communities throughout the country need so much help. It also pains me to know if I enter with the DSMME that at final vows I will have to permanently switch from the Chaldean Rite to the Latin Rite... I feel like my decision would be so much easier if the religious community of Sisters in my diocese were a bit more solid and didn't seem like they were only consecrated volunteers.
My spiritual director has been very helpful, but at the same time he can't tell me what my vocation is. It's something that I have to figure out on my own. He did tell me that there isn't anything hindering me from entering with the DSMME so I should be at peace with my decision, but that he would be sad for me if I did enter there and then afterwards regret that I didn't stay within the Chaldean community.

**For those of you who don't know what Chaldeans are: Chaldeans are the Catholic Christians from Iraq. Our ancestors are the ancient Babylonians and we were converted by the Apostole Thomas on his way to India. He left his disciples Mar (St.) Addai and Mar Mari in Mesopotamia and they actually wrote our Mass. Now, Chaldeans speak a dialect of the ancient language of aramaic, the language that Jesus spoke, but our Mass is celebrated in the ancient aramaic.

(edited for spelling errors)

Mary,
I don't know how much advice, per se, I can give you, but I'll share my thoughts with you.
First of all, it sounds like you really had a wonderful, peaceful and joy-filled week with the DSMMEs. When you write of your experiences, you seem just thrilled about it; your excitement and joy even seem to transverse this faceless phorum of ours.

That said, I was hoping I could offer a little of my own experience. I have spent the past five years working and serving in direct service to very poor people: in soup kitchens, orphanages, poor schools, even foreign countries. When I began discerning with the order that I am currently discerning with, one of my biggest concerns was that I would be abandoning all those people who I could help if I entered a different order or chose a different lifestyle. It really pained me to think that I could be choosing to leave them behind to serve a less materially-disadvantaged group of people.

Through prayer, reflection, and consultation with a few very wise people, I have learned a few things. I have come to believe (although I still struggle with it sometimes) that my prayers are far more efficacious than any direct work I could be doing with them, even though it may not appear that way to me because of my limited vantage point. When I was serving in an orphanage, for example, I could constantly SEE the difference I was making in the lives of the children I served; but now that I am thousands of miles away from them, I can only trust that my prayers for them are earning for them graces and aid beyond anything my physical presence could offer them. In this respect, for me, the direct service was almost self-gratifying; this self-gratifications wasn’t my reason for serving, but in some respects, it was still was nice to see that I could make a difference. The same would be true for you. Just because you are not there directly working with them does not mean that you are not still serving them (and possibly serving them more) by holding your community in your prayers and in your heart. You are giving them the fruit of your contemplation, even if you are not encountering them on a daily basis.

A wise person once told me: Just because you can’t SEE God using you, it doesn’t mean that He’s not using you. That is really the only advice I have. You will not be, in my opinion, abandoning your community if you choose the path that will help you to achieve sanctity. Trust your heart and your judgment, and know that no decision is permanent until you’ve professed final vows somewhere (and even then it could change!! That’s how the DSMMEs started!)

Put yourself at God’s disposal, abandon yourself, your will, you desires, your fears, and your love to Him, and He will use you as he sees fit.

God bless you as you continue to discern. Know that you have my prayers.

In the hearts of Jesus and Mary,
Lauren

Mandy,

There is a famous picture of a Iraqi sister in front of a bunch of schoolchildren in Iraq--she is a young Iraqi woman in a Dominican habit. What order is she in? She's now in the US, I know that.

What are your options for religious life in the Chaldean rite? Could you work as a lay religious worker?

How do you feel about the Roman rite? I personally think that it would be neat to pray in Aramaic.

I do agree with what Lauren has stated above so well. What you do in your life as a religious will not always bear its fruit in your lifetime. So no matter which community you join, you will encounter joys and frustrations. God will honor your gift of yourself wherever you go. I hope you will be happy with the DSMME's, but I also hope that you keep the desire to help your fellow Chaldean Catholics. Keep praying and seek the counsel of the DSMME's about this. Surely the Holy Spirit will give you some clarity over time. God bless!

I do not think you can just dismiss your desire to serve these people. Sometimes the Lord speaks to us in mysterioius ways. Find out how you can combine your desire to follow Jesus with your strong desire to aid your people. I do not think you will find peace otherwise. Your journey is far from over from the way I see it. Continue to open your heart.

Hi jkaands,

There is one order of Chaldean Sisters within the Chaldean Rite and they are called the Chaldean Daughters of Mary Immaculate and strangely enough they actually wear Dominican Habits. So the picture of the young Iraqi Sister was probably a Chaldean Sister.

There isn't much opportunity to be a lay religious in the Chaldean Rite because I guess we just don't have that in our Rite. I do love the Roman Rite and I love the Latin Mass, but I have so much pride in being Chaldean Rite and it is really amazing to pray in Aramaic I wish there was a solid religious community I could join in my Rite but there isn't. I could try to enter with the Chaldean Sisters and try to reform but that isn't very practical. I've spoken with the Mother General of the Chaldean Sisters a number of times and she's very firm in her opinion that I enter with them.

It's so frustrating because I love the Dominicans and I love Dominican spirituality but I also really love my people and my Rite.

My thought is that I just take a leap of faith and place the future in God's hands. My entrance day with the DSMME is in just 40 days...

Hi Mandy,

I have similar apprehensions: there aren't many religious in my country, and I don't feel called to the few that are. So I will probably have to leave, thus adding to the problem... and in addition leave my culture (well, it's not like I'd have to switch Rites, but still!)

Regarding all that I must second what The Lord's Sheep already said. And as St Catherina de Siena (you know, of a certain Order ) said: if you are where you should be, you will set the world on fire!

The first call of the religious is getting to heaven. The second is taking as many people as possible along. You have to take care of point #1 first. Go where you feel YOU should be.

Maybe it would help to keep in mind that although you might be changing rites, all rites are part of one Church, and if you help one member, the whole Body benefits.
God love you!

...have you discussed your allegiance, background and ambivalence thoroughly in every detail with the DMME's?

I am frankly surprised that they are encouraging you to enter now, given the current state of your ambivalence, ie that you're consulting phatmass about it. Do you have a spiritual director? Is there any other trusted individual, who wouldn't take sides, that you could talk to about this?

i frankly don't think that you are ready.

jkaands,

Thank you for your honesty and concern. Every time I speak to the Sisters about this recent problem and apprehension that I've been having, all my fears seem to go away and then as time goes on they seem to resurface. I've actually been discerning with the DSMME's for three years and from the counsel I've recently received from my spiritual director and also from my dear friend who is also Chaldean but is now a Missionary of Charity Contemplative in the Bronx, I'm being distracted with thoughts of staying within the Chaldean Rite and entering an order here that may never be able to form me or help me to achieve sanctity.

I think VeniteAdoremus put it best when she said, "The first call of the religious is getting to heaven. The second is taking as many people as possible along." I'm realizing more and more. I guess I will never know unless I take a leap of faith. God chose August 28th as my entrance day and I believe that's the day He's prepared for me. I think that I have to go where He is calling me today and abandon my future into His hands.

I beg for everyone's prayers and you all will be in mine. I'm truly thankful for the counsel you all have been giving me. May God bless you all abundantly!

Mandy, God bless you! I think your faith is very strong and mature; I disagree about the comment that you might not be ready to enter with the DSMME. After all, entering the postulancy is hardly a commitment compared to taking final vows, so I'd say go for it. You've been discerning with the sisters for three years and a leap of faith is in order. You can sit and pray about your vocation for a while, but God gives us humans the physical opportunities we need in order to accept His call and test our "hearing." These opportunities will come and go and then be gone, and not entering a community with a charism that attracts you now when there are no obstacles, as your spiritual director pointed out, could result in much regret later on.

You have my prayers; be assured of that!

On a side note, do you happen to remember the names of the Nashville Dominicans you ran into? ;-)

Thank you for your comment, DP. I do remember the names of the Nashville Dominicans I ran into: Sr. Mary Evelyn, O.P, and Sr. Mary Carmela, O.P. They were very sweet

It does sound like you're being pulled in two directions, and need some time to step back and sort out these attractions.
If you act before you're sure that you're ready, one choice or the other will almost surely be back to haunt you. When that happens, it might be the Holy Spirit, or it might be simple temptation.
It is very difficult to make such a decision in the first place, but it is much harder to discern and come back when the journey has begun.
We've seen it happen. Be assured of my sympathy and prayers.

It does sound like you're being pulled in two directions, and need some time to step back and sort out these attractions.
If you act before you're sure that you're ready, one choice or the other will almost surely be back to haunt you. When that happens, it might be the Holy Spirit, or it might be simple temptation.
It is very difficult to make such a decision in the first place, but it is much harder to discern and come back when the journey has begun.
We've seen it happen. Be assured of my sympathy and prayers.

Mandy - I tried posting a much longer response, but it didn't take. I'm taking that as a sign that perhaps the Lord wanted me to either shut up altogether, or just be briefer.

So, briefly; thank you for sharing and trusting us with your story.

A friend of mine - middle aged - was surprised to find himself thinking about becoming a deacon. He thought it was an absurd idea and tried to forget it but the more he tried to push the idea from his mind, the more it was brought to the fore (of course.)

He felt like everywhere he turned, the Holy Spirit was putting the diaconate in front of him. He'd walk down the street and walk into a deacon from his parish. At work a baptist would start talking to him about a deacon in HIS church. He dropped a magazine and the page it fell open to was about deacons. Finally he called me once to say that he was in a bagel place - a Jewish deli - and even there, he opened up a newspaper and saw a picture of Reese Witherspoon and her son whose name? DEACON. At which point he said, "ALRIGHT ALREADY, I HEAR YOU!"

And he is a very happy new deacon, today, and his parish is blessed to have him.

The only reason I tell the story is because you mentioned that "dominican" themed things seemed to be put in your path rather dramatically.

It might mean nothing, or it might mean that the Holy Spirit is trying to give you direction. I'm not pushing you in that direction, btw, you clearly have a vocation and a heart full of great love that will serve the Lord no matter which direction you take. It's just something to think about. I'll pray for you that the Lord will illumine his will for you by granting you an unambiguous sign that brings you the "peace beyond all understanding" that Nancy (Praying 4 Carmel) related about her recent clarity about her Vocation.

God bless,
DA

Mandy:

I'm late coming to this thread - perhaps too late to be of any help to you.

There is a congregation of Dominican sisters in Mosul, Iraq - the picture that was mentioned was probably not a Chaldean Rite sister. The Dominican convent has been damaged in the past, they've been without electricity off and on - they're in a tough situation, but they're still there. I can't find a web page for them, but you may be able to get some information about them from Sr. Anne Lythgoe, OP at editor@domlife.org - assuming that you have any interest in joining a Dominican congregation back in Iraq.

On the larger question of which group to join - Chaldean, active, Dominican, etc.... Many people on this forum advise discerners to be open to the Spirit, wait for some sort of a sign from God, and so forth. While there is nothing wrong with that - God can certainly communicate with us in a variety of unexpected ways - I also think God expects us to do our homework. In the case of discernment, that means a lot of self-analysis - Who am I? What am I happy doing? What talents do I have? Where can I best contribute them for my own good and the good of the whole church? (BTW, that little phrase - "for our good and the good of the whole church" - is my personal definition of liturgy, and it should apply to everything we do: prayer, education, work, volunteer activities, clothing, whatever.)

If you have the talent & inclination to serve other people, it's an indication that an active order suits you. If you are more introspective, prefer quiet prayer & contemplation, it is an indication that a comtemplative order suits you. If you have both elements within you, you want a balanced contemplative/active order. Finding the group that suits you is challenging because there are so many out there; that's actually one of the joys of Catholicism - there are so many ways to be holy in the Catholic Church! But it does mean that you need to research charisms, schedules, prayer/work balance, types of ministry, cultural influences (such as the Rite, the language of prayer, the habit, and so forth) to find a good fit.

I just don't believe God tries to force round pegs into square holes or vise versa - He made us the way we are, He made us that way for a reason, He wants us to develop who we are (as made by Him), and he wants us to spend ourselves in serving Him (directly or by serving His people), and He wants us to be happy while we're doing it. Finding that good fit will allow you to be happy while you serve God by using the talents He gave you.

I do agree that starting a prenovitiate is not a permanent commitment - it's a way of exploring the fit between you and a particular congregation. If you're going in on August 28th and all the arrangements have been made, then go in peace to love and serve the Lord, but keep in mind that you're still exploring, still discerning, still choosing, still deciding.

DA,

Thank you for your prayers! You're in mine as well!

Luigi,

I think you've given me the best piece of advice I've received yet about this whole situation. Thank you so much for still writing your comment even though you thought you may have been too late Please keep me in your prayers. You're in mine as well.

bump!

Mandy, do you know these girls?

http://www.kaldu.org/2008/05/May16_08E1.html

Two consecrated virgins in the Chaldean Rite, new members of Workers of the Vineyard

...there's also a thread on the Chaldean rite and religious on forums.catholic.com/Eastern Catholicism/ "Please Pray for these New Members of Workers of the Vineyard of Our Lord"

They are actually Sisters and not consecrated virgins.

I am very good friends with both of these Sisters. I stayed with them for a few days when I was in California. One of them is one of my closest friends and we went to college together. They're a really great group. I think I mentioned them in an earlier post or maybe an earlier thread..

They are awesome. I did discern somewhat if God may be calling me there, but as much as I love them I know that's not where He wants me to be. But if anyone is willing to switch to the Chaldean Rite, I HIGHLY recommend checking them out!

Thank you for directing me to that forum by the way