Just wanted to let you all know, especially those seriously interested in entering a 1990 Carmel,
that the Springfield, MO Carmel was presented as a 1990 one, but it is not. It is 1991 & may or
may not be liberal.

Springfield Carmel is a member of the St Joseph Association of Carmelite monasteries in the USA. Regardless of the use of 1990 or 1991 versions of the Constitutions, this is a very traditional association that includes Buffalo NY and Flemington NJ. I would expect that they would have double grills, the full traditional habit and a very traditional and strict observance of everything- they may still be making their own alpagatas rather than buying sandals- that was the pre-Vatican II footwear thing. Liturgy of the Hours may still be chanted "recto tono" (chanted on one note, except on feast days) which was the kind of chant that Teresa instructed be used.

The St Joseph Association does have a web site for their association but it very stagnant and has only pictures of exteriors of monastery buildings. I believe Springfield has only 4 nuns now but that may be an out of date figure.

Hope this info helps anyone interested in discerning with a very traditional observance.

Graciela

The email they sent me said they are not 1990 & if I am looking for a more
traditional type of Carmel, to look elsewhere. That would seem to tell me that
they themselves admit that they are not like the other Carmels of the St. Joseph
Association. They are only in three Nuns now & are discerning merging w/another
Carmel. That was why I attempted to warn discerners of 1990 Carmels, Graciela.
Also, they appear to use their Baptismal names & not Religious names. This would
indicate the 1991 tendencies....The Jefferson City MO Carmel IS 1990. There have
been over the years, some Carmels who were 1990 & then switched over to the
1991 Constitutions; this, not only in the US but abroad as well.

I know that Gemma has been meaning to update the OCD page on her site (no offense meant to her, she has an awesome incredibly resourceful site! ) but one reason they may have been confused as under the 1990 Constitutions is because it says there that the Carmels in the St. Joseph Association follow them.

http://www.flemingtoncarmel.org/StJoseph.htm

http://www.carmelitenunsstjoseph.org/

But Philadelphia, Morristown, Santa Fe and Springfield are under the 1991s (though I am not totally sure on Morristown, they may have switched to 1990s, because they have a little asterisk next to their name on the new OCD site here) I know of one Carmel, Iron Mountain, that was originally under the 1991s, and then switched over to the 1990s, though I'm not sure when. And then of course many of the 1991 Carmels are really great too. God bless!

The 1991 Carmels run the whole gamut of tradtional to liberal & therein lies
the problem: the interpretation of the actual 1991 Constitutions. They can & are
often interpreted by differing standards. So, one must check out each individual
1991 Carmel to be sure they are what one is looking for....If one desires a more
traditional lifestyle then ALL 1990 Carmels fall into that category. SOME 1991
Carmels also fall into that same category. If one is looking for a lighter form of
Teresian Carmelite life, then those having that type of lifestyle can be found
only among the 1991 Carmels. In either case one has to sift thru the 1991s.

Wow! Surprising to find that they would say that they are not traditional yet be in that particular association....

I wonder which Carmel they are thinking of merging with- presumably not another one in their association. Are they still willing to talk with discerners?

Thanks for the recent information.

Grace & peace-

Graciela

Try the page again, dear.

Blessings,
Gemma

Probably they meant they are just not as traditional as the Carmels under the 1990s. My first guess would be that they might go to St. Louis, since that's where they were founded from.

And from the other thread ...

Wow, thanks for mentioning that! I was wondering about them.


Thanks, Gemma!