This is partly for my own research and my own curiosity. I have experienced animosity and hostility because of my choice to live the Gospel and practice Catholicism. So my question is if anybody else here has...
Can you describe a specific time (but you can be general about the details if that makes sense)...
Or if you cannot think of a specific time, what are some of the things you hear criticizing your faith.
Or about a person you know who fell away from their faith because of their experience of antagonism or hostility to their faith.
Full Version: Hostility Against The Faith
"Why do you kneel before a cracker?"
There's a common meme among abortion-supporters which says, "Well, if the Christians are so down with abortion, how come they NEVER HELP PREGNANT WOMEN?" (
) I counter this whenever I can, not to convince the crazy feminists, but just in case there's some pregnant girl out there who sees it and doesn't know better.
So, on one semi-political blog, I mentioned that the Catholic Church offers lots of support for pregnant women. A man I didn't know started emailing me after that, debating about abortion, birth control, abuse scandals, the validity of religious beliefs at all, and finally started trying to convince me that pregnancy was itself incredibly bad and no woman should ever get pregnant. I just gave up responding after that one. (It was reasonably civil in tone, but the content was very negative.)
I've been "unfriended" and ignored by various lesbian/feminist writer-associates on LiveJournal, just because they know I'm Catholic... even though I rarely mention anything religious there, and when I do, it's all personal stuff.
I've been passed over for a couple editorial positions. Once because I "wouldn't relate as well" to the polyamory lifestyle that the editor thinks dominates the SF/F field. Another time, well, I'm not certain if it was because I'm Catholic, but of the people I know who got the positions, they're all GLBT folk.
I have no way of telling if I get more stories rejected because people know my religious background, but it wouldn't surprise me. (It is not always a benefit to know the editors, sigh.) Mysteriously, I do much better with anonymously entered stories.
) I counter this whenever I can, not to convince the crazy feminists, but just in case there's some pregnant girl out there who sees it and doesn't know better. So, on one semi-political blog, I mentioned that the Catholic Church offers lots of support for pregnant women. A man I didn't know started emailing me after that, debating about abortion, birth control, abuse scandals, the validity of religious beliefs at all, and finally started trying to convince me that pregnancy was itself incredibly bad and no woman should ever get pregnant. I just gave up responding after that one. (It was reasonably civil in tone, but the content was very negative.)
I've been "unfriended" and ignored by various lesbian/feminist writer-associates on LiveJournal, just because they know I'm Catholic... even though I rarely mention anything religious there, and when I do, it's all personal stuff.
I've been passed over for a couple editorial positions. Once because I "wouldn't relate as well" to the polyamory lifestyle that the editor thinks dominates the SF/F field. Another time, well, I'm not certain if it was because I'm Catholic, but of the people I know who got the positions, they're all GLBT folk.
I have no way of telling if I get more stories rejected because people know my religious background, but it wouldn't surprise me. (It is not always a benefit to know the editors, sigh.) Mysteriously, I do much better with anonymously entered stories.
I wrote about a bad anti-catholic experience that I endured on another thread. It's the one right after the starter of the thread posted.
http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...p;#entry1681882
http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...p;#entry1681882
I grew up in an area where Catholics were about 5% of the population. There were neighborhood kids who weren't allowed to play with us because we were Catholic.
My first experience with White Supremacist groups was when the KKK was recruiting on my high school campus, yes, I mean on the grounds itself. They were very interested in me, until I told them I was Catholic, and then he stopped speaking to me as if I was no longer standing there.
When I was later doing social justice work, and came up against that type again, I was called the Whore of Babylon, a Papist, and many things that I can't print here. I went after them, they condemned me for it, and came after me. I can still remember the noise the guy made when I told him that they couldn't judge me, that my only judge was Jesus Christ. I thought he was going to burst a blood vessel. When I started saying the Hail Mary out loud, he screamed for me to shut up. It almost seemed to be causing him pain to hear me pray.
My first experience with White Supremacist groups was when the KKK was recruiting on my high school campus, yes, I mean on the grounds itself. They were very interested in me, until I told them I was Catholic, and then he stopped speaking to me as if I was no longer standing there.
When I was later doing social justice work, and came up against that type again, I was called the Whore of Babylon, a Papist, and many things that I can't print here. I went after them, they condemned me for it, and came after me. I can still remember the noise the guy made when I told him that they couldn't judge me, that my only judge was Jesus Christ. I thought he was going to burst a blood vessel. When I started saying the Hail Mary out loud, he screamed for me to shut up. It almost seemed to be causing him pain to hear me pray.
QUOTE (tinytherese @ Oct 31 2008, 09:27 PM) 
I wrote about a bad anti-catholic experience that I endured on another thread. It's the one right after the starter of the thread posted.
http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...p;#entry1681882
http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...p;#entry1681882
thanks, it was actually this post that got me thinking about trying to gather stories or instances, precisely because we hear so many stories or historical cases of the church being some grand diabolical villian out to oppress and control, like we read in the history books, or see in the movies. It is just we never heard the other side...
shalom
bro mark
I converted to Catholicism a couple of years ago, and the very fundamentalist part of my family essentially disowned us for a while, although we are back in somewhat tenuous contact now. I was always raised to hate Catholics as Mary-worshippers, etc. - thankfully God led me gently to the Truth. 
This is an email a friend sent me out of the blue a few weeks ago regarding a dead conversation we had 3 years prior....
So I responded like so with this....
To which he replied with this...
I decided not to email back after this to give him some cool down time, as he made it clear, this relationship is over. Harsh eh? I feel like I was dragged through the coals on this one, I have never met such random hostility before especially from someone I considered a friend. I dont think I was hostile or aggressive, simply stating the facts, Catholics follow the pope duh!
QUOTE
Now, I'm curious. It's ure turn to really start thinkin'. If the best the church can come up with is a deceitful Nazi, are you still a papist ? (Remember, I told ya some time ago - if ya knew what papist meant, ya wouldn't be calling ureself one.)
So I responded like so with this....
QUOTE
What is with the hate mail? I don’t understand. I sent you a picture in jest of papal slippers and you fire off this email referencing something mentioned in your office about 3 years ago back to me? Why?
Your email was very hurtful to me as a Roman Catholic, I take my faith seriously. I have thought long and hard for years about this to bring me to this point where I am at today. I believe in the Holy Trinity and the Catholic Church to be the one true Church founded by Jesus Christ, with its earthly head being the Pope. As a Catholic I follow the Churches teachings on faith and morals. I can also accept that you dont believe this or care to follow this, Im not going to force it on you.
In my experience I have not read, seen or heard anything that indicates the Pope is anything other than a brilliant theologian.
So please back up your claim, where has he been deceitful and how is he a Nazi?
Your email was very hurtful to me as a Roman Catholic, I take my faith seriously. I have thought long and hard for years about this to bring me to this point where I am at today. I believe in the Holy Trinity and the Catholic Church to be the one true Church founded by Jesus Christ, with its earthly head being the Pope. As a Catholic I follow the Churches teachings on faith and morals. I can also accept that you dont believe this or care to follow this, Im not going to force it on you.
In my experience I have not read, seen or heard anything that indicates the Pope is anything other than a brilliant theologian.
So please back up your claim, where has he been deceitful and how is he a Nazi?
To which he replied with this...
QUOTE
I was gonna respond with (blue) text below, then deleted it, then thought - at least I owe him something honest. Anyway, it's time to end our relationship. There is nothing more I can offer you. Best of luck.
Who authored the Catholic Church's deceitful policy on handling the tens of thousand child rapes in North America alone. Does tens of thousands mean anything to you ? Look what he did (and didn't do) during World War II - Hitler Yougen. The email suggested ...ure turn to really start thinkin'... Your opinions on religion are not yours. You adopted those opinions for pats on the head. The opinions a child forms are not valid in adulthood. A child believes in Santa Claus, an adult believes in the idea of Santa Claus. Had the Scientologists got a hold of you when you were young, you'd be a good Scientologist today. I think you are so easily offended because your position is weak. A confident position would not cave so easily to frustration. Or maybe you are starting to think that Ratzinger is the anti-christ, as foretold by numerous clerics and revered figures in your religion. (The timing is right.) In any event, your position that the pope is ...the earthly head of the one true church... still makes me ask - is that the best it can do ? If you are free to state your beliefs, why give me the same privilege - without resorting to hurt feelings. (By the way, except for a few rituals, and some parochial machinations of theology, I know more about Jesus Christ and the catholic church than you do. Here's a learning hint: you can only know something by its opposite, not by its self.) I'm not in the business of giving pats on the head. Can you handle that ?
Who authored the Catholic Church's deceitful policy on handling the tens of thousand child rapes in North America alone. Does tens of thousands mean anything to you ? Look what he did (and didn't do) during World War II - Hitler Yougen. The email suggested ...ure turn to really start thinkin'... Your opinions on religion are not yours. You adopted those opinions for pats on the head. The opinions a child forms are not valid in adulthood. A child believes in Santa Claus, an adult believes in the idea of Santa Claus. Had the Scientologists got a hold of you when you were young, you'd be a good Scientologist today. I think you are so easily offended because your position is weak. A confident position would not cave so easily to frustration. Or maybe you are starting to think that Ratzinger is the anti-christ, as foretold by numerous clerics and revered figures in your religion. (The timing is right.) In any event, your position that the pope is ...the earthly head of the one true church... still makes me ask - is that the best it can do ? If you are free to state your beliefs, why give me the same privilege - without resorting to hurt feelings. (By the way, except for a few rituals, and some parochial machinations of theology, I know more about Jesus Christ and the catholic church than you do. Here's a learning hint: you can only know something by its opposite, not by its self.) I'm not in the business of giving pats on the head. Can you handle that ?
I decided not to email back after this to give him some cool down time, as he made it clear, this relationship is over. Harsh eh? I feel like I was dragged through the coals on this one, I have never met such random hostility before especially from someone I considered a friend. I dont think I was hostile or aggressive, simply stating the facts, Catholics follow the pope duh!
Church Punk-Sometimes people really don't want to be confused by the truth. They don't want to have their shaky foundations pulled out from underneath them because they don't have anything else to fall back on. The shakier their foundations, the more likely they are to react harshly, almost totally out of proportion, and potentially even violently.
Church Punk, your friend wrote this:
Rofl. How ridiculous.
QUOTE
(By the way, except for a few rituals, and some parochial machinations of theology, I know more about Jesus Christ and the catholic church than you do.
Rofl. How ridiculous.
i work amidst a sea of evangelical Christians, one agnostic, and two Catholics...
everyone in my office knows i used to be a novice in the convent, and they know i am a devout Catholic, and I take my relationship with Jesus very seriously...
one of my co-workers "founded" her own church, is very popular with the rest of the evangelicals, and likes to really promote her faith...which isn't a bad thing, except, when you don't follow her version of the truth, things can become rather sticky...
let's call her "preacher.."
well, one day "preacher" sends me an e-mail. she explains to me that she no longer finds it fitting to speak to me anymore. why? because I have "scandalized" her with my friendship with the agnostic co-worker in our midst. She feels I am not being a good Christian and I need to show this agnostic, just how reprehensible she is...
I shot an e-mail back to her, explaining to her, that we are all commanded to LOVE, and that it is LOVE that can change hearts...
I then went on to tell her that I noticed how judgemental she can be, and how she uses her position and the Gospel to intimidate people. I told her this was not the case with Jesus Christ. I said when I see her, I don't see Jesus, but I see rather, the ones who crucified Him...the pharisees, the saducees, those self-righteous people who felt they were saved already just because they belonged to God's chosen people...I told "preacher" to be very careful...
a few days later, in front of my co-workers, "preacher" started to ask questions outloud about why persons of the Catholic faith would want to live together with the same sex in one big house, (i.e. a convent) and how odd all of that is...
...she then went on to question the sexuality of every person who is in religious life, and all those who would consider such a life..!!!
everyone was struck silent, except for my friend, the agnostic, who stood up to "preacher" and told her that the only person in the office, who came close to reflecting any good about Christianity was me...and as she put it, "to answer your stupid questions, religious in the Catholic Church MARRY JESUS CHRIST...and HE is their SPOUSE, so your implications only display your jealousy for a beautiful FAITH that you don't possess..."
I was humbled by her remarks, and yet, so proud of my agnostic friend...and to this day, I feel she is more Christian than most of those I work with who really are...(isn't that funny how that works?) I hope and pray that all I've shared with her will bear fruit in the long run...I know that she has taught me some valuable lessons as well...
everyone in my office knows i used to be a novice in the convent, and they know i am a devout Catholic, and I take my relationship with Jesus very seriously...
one of my co-workers "founded" her own church, is very popular with the rest of the evangelicals, and likes to really promote her faith...which isn't a bad thing, except, when you don't follow her version of the truth, things can become rather sticky...
let's call her "preacher.."
well, one day "preacher" sends me an e-mail. she explains to me that she no longer finds it fitting to speak to me anymore. why? because I have "scandalized" her with my friendship with the agnostic co-worker in our midst. She feels I am not being a good Christian and I need to show this agnostic, just how reprehensible she is...
I shot an e-mail back to her, explaining to her, that we are all commanded to LOVE, and that it is LOVE that can change hearts...
I then went on to tell her that I noticed how judgemental she can be, and how she uses her position and the Gospel to intimidate people. I told her this was not the case with Jesus Christ. I said when I see her, I don't see Jesus, but I see rather, the ones who crucified Him...the pharisees, the saducees, those self-righteous people who felt they were saved already just because they belonged to God's chosen people...I told "preacher" to be very careful...
a few days later, in front of my co-workers, "preacher" started to ask questions outloud about why persons of the Catholic faith would want to live together with the same sex in one big house, (i.e. a convent) and how odd all of that is...
...she then went on to question the sexuality of every person who is in religious life, and all those who would consider such a life..!!!
everyone was struck silent, except for my friend, the agnostic, who stood up to "preacher" and told her that the only person in the office, who came close to reflecting any good about Christianity was me...and as she put it, "to answer your stupid questions, religious in the Catholic Church MARRY JESUS CHRIST...and HE is their SPOUSE, so your implications only display your jealousy for a beautiful FAITH that you don't possess..."
I was humbled by her remarks, and yet, so proud of my agnostic friend...and to this day, I feel she is more Christian than most of those I work with who really are...(isn't that funny how that works?) I hope and pray that all I've shared with her will bear fruit in the long run...I know that she has taught me some valuable lessons as well...
QUOTE (dominicansoul @ Nov 27 2008, 11:22 PM)
i work amidst a sea of evangelical Christians, one agnostic, and two Catholics...
everyone in my office knows i used to be a novice in the convent, and they know i am a devout Catholic, and I take my relationship with Jesus very seriously...
one of my co-workers "founded" her own church, is very popular with the rest of the evangelicals, and likes to really promote her faith...which isn't a bad thing, except, when you don't follow her version of the truth, things can become rather sticky...
let's call her "preacher.."
well, one day "preacher" sends me an e-mail. she explains to me that she no longer finds it fitting to speak to me anymore. why? because I have "scandalized" her with my friendship with the agnostic co-worker in our midst. She feels I am not being a good Christian and I need to show this agnostic, just how reprehensible she is...
I shot an e-mail back to her, explaining to her, that we are all commanded to LOVE, and that it is LOVE that can change hearts...
I then went on to tell her that I noticed how judgemental she can be, and how she uses her position and the Gospel to intimidate people. I told her this was not the case with Jesus Christ. I said when I see her, I don't see Jesus, but I see rather, the ones who crucified Him...the pharisees, the saducees, those self-righteous people who felt they were saved already just because they belonged to God's chosen people...I told "preacher" to be very careful...
a few days later, in front of my co-workers, "preacher" started to ask questions outloud about why persons of the Catholic faith would want to live together with the same sex in one big house, (i.e. a convent) and how odd all of that is...
...she then went on to question the sexuality of every person who is in religious life, and all those who would consider such a life..!!!
everyone was struck silent, except for my friend, the agnostic, who stood up to "preacher" and told her that the only person in the office, who came close to reflecting any good about Christianity was me...and as she put it, "to answer your stupid questions, religious in the Catholic Church MARRY JESUS CHRIST...and HE is their SPOUSE, so your implications only display your jealousy for a beautiful FAITH that you don't possess..."
I was humbled by her remarks, and yet, so proud of my agnostic friend...and to this day, I feel she is more Christian than most of those I work with who really are...(isn't that funny how that works?) I hope and pray that all I've shared with her will bear fruit in the long run...I know that she has taught me some valuable lessons as well...
everyone in my office knows i used to be a novice in the convent, and they know i am a devout Catholic, and I take my relationship with Jesus very seriously...
one of my co-workers "founded" her own church, is very popular with the rest of the evangelicals, and likes to really promote her faith...which isn't a bad thing, except, when you don't follow her version of the truth, things can become rather sticky...
let's call her "preacher.."
well, one day "preacher" sends me an e-mail. she explains to me that she no longer finds it fitting to speak to me anymore. why? because I have "scandalized" her with my friendship with the agnostic co-worker in our midst. She feels I am not being a good Christian and I need to show this agnostic, just how reprehensible she is...
I shot an e-mail back to her, explaining to her, that we are all commanded to LOVE, and that it is LOVE that can change hearts...
I then went on to tell her that I noticed how judgemental she can be, and how she uses her position and the Gospel to intimidate people. I told her this was not the case with Jesus Christ. I said when I see her, I don't see Jesus, but I see rather, the ones who crucified Him...the pharisees, the saducees, those self-righteous people who felt they were saved already just because they belonged to God's chosen people...I told "preacher" to be very careful...
a few days later, in front of my co-workers, "preacher" started to ask questions outloud about why persons of the Catholic faith would want to live together with the same sex in one big house, (i.e. a convent) and how odd all of that is...
...she then went on to question the sexuality of every person who is in religious life, and all those who would consider such a life..!!!
everyone was struck silent, except for my friend, the agnostic, who stood up to "preacher" and told her that the only person in the office, who came close to reflecting any good about Christianity was me...and as she put it, "to answer your stupid questions, religious in the Catholic Church MARRY JESUS CHRIST...and HE is their SPOUSE, so your implications only display your jealousy for a beautiful FAITH that you don't possess..."
I was humbled by her remarks, and yet, so proud of my agnostic friend...and to this day, I feel she is more Christian than most of those I work with who really are...(isn't that funny how that works?) I hope and pray that all I've shared with her will bear fruit in the long run...I know that she has taught me some valuable lessons as well...
Whoa, totally awesome story.
QUOTE (HisChildForever @ Nov 27 2008, 11:45 PM)
Church Punk, your friend wrote this:
Rofl. How ridiculous.
Rofl. How ridiculous.
Yes he did. I was pretty upset over this because I thought him to be a friend and someone I looked up to. (He is older, maybe double my age) I used to work with him and thought of him almost as a uncle or something lately.
But then he drops this, so I guess just shake your sandals off right, if he is moved to learn more I will welcome him but not until the attitude is dropped.
QUOTE (dominicansoul @ Nov 28 2008, 12:22 AM)
i work amidst a sea of evangelical Christians, one agnostic, and two Catholics...
everyone in my office knows i used to be a novice in the convent, and they know i am a devout Catholic, and I take my relationship with Jesus very seriously...
one of my co-workers "founded" her own church, is very popular with the rest of the evangelicals, and likes to really promote her faith...which isn't a bad thing, except, when you don't follow her version of the truth, things can become rather sticky...
let's call her "preacher.."
well, one day "preacher" sends me an e-mail. she explains to me that she no longer finds it fitting to speak to me anymore. why? because I have "scandalized" her with my friendship with the agnostic co-worker in our midst. She feels I am not being a good Christian and I need to show this agnostic, just how reprehensible she is...
I shot an e-mail back to her, explaining to her, that we are all commanded to LOVE, and that it is LOVE that can change hearts...
I then went on to tell her that I noticed how judgemental she can be, and how she uses her position and the Gospel to intimidate people. I told her this was not the case with Jesus Christ. I said when I see her, I don't see Jesus, but I see rather, the ones who crucified Him...the pharisees, the saducees, those self-righteous people who felt they were saved already just because they belonged to God's chosen people...I told "preacher" to be very careful...
a few days later, in front of my co-workers, "preacher" started to ask questions outloud about why persons of the Catholic faith would want to live together with the same sex in one big house, (i.e. a convent) and how odd all of that is...
...she then went on to question the sexuality of every person who is in religious life, and all those who would consider such a life..!!!
everyone was struck silent, except for my friend, the agnostic, who stood up to "preacher" and told her that the only person in the office, who came close to reflecting any good about Christianity was me...and as she put it, "to answer your stupid questions, religious in the Catholic Church MARRY JESUS CHRIST...and HE is their SPOUSE, so your implications only display your jealousy for a beautiful FAITH that you don't possess..."
I was humbled by her remarks, and yet, so proud of my agnostic friend...and to this day, I feel she is more Christian than most of those I work with who really are...(isn't that funny how that works?) I hope and pray that all I've shared with her will bear fruit in the long run...I know that she has taught me some valuable lessons as well...
everyone in my office knows i used to be a novice in the convent, and they know i am a devout Catholic, and I take my relationship with Jesus very seriously...
one of my co-workers "founded" her own church, is very popular with the rest of the evangelicals, and likes to really promote her faith...which isn't a bad thing, except, when you don't follow her version of the truth, things can become rather sticky...
let's call her "preacher.."
well, one day "preacher" sends me an e-mail. she explains to me that she no longer finds it fitting to speak to me anymore. why? because I have "scandalized" her with my friendship with the agnostic co-worker in our midst. She feels I am not being a good Christian and I need to show this agnostic, just how reprehensible she is...
I shot an e-mail back to her, explaining to her, that we are all commanded to LOVE, and that it is LOVE that can change hearts...
I then went on to tell her that I noticed how judgemental she can be, and how she uses her position and the Gospel to intimidate people. I told her this was not the case with Jesus Christ. I said when I see her, I don't see Jesus, but I see rather, the ones who crucified Him...the pharisees, the saducees, those self-righteous people who felt they were saved already just because they belonged to God's chosen people...I told "preacher" to be very careful...
a few days later, in front of my co-workers, "preacher" started to ask questions outloud about why persons of the Catholic faith would want to live together with the same sex in one big house, (i.e. a convent) and how odd all of that is...
...she then went on to question the sexuality of every person who is in religious life, and all those who would consider such a life..!!!
everyone was struck silent, except for my friend, the agnostic, who stood up to "preacher" and told her that the only person in the office, who came close to reflecting any good about Christianity was me...and as she put it, "to answer your stupid questions, religious in the Catholic Church MARRY JESUS CHRIST...and HE is their SPOUSE, so your implications only display your jealousy for a beautiful FAITH that you don't possess..."
I was humbled by her remarks, and yet, so proud of my agnostic friend...and to this day, I feel she is more Christian than most of those I work with who really are...(isn't that funny how that works?) I hope and pray that all I've shared with her will bear fruit in the long run...I know that she has taught me some valuable lessons as well...
Sometimes you are much more honest admitting you dont believe or follow, because she probably doesnt, or cant see it right now. Such is the fertile soil to plant the seeds.
The main hostility i experienced was around the time of my conversion: ended up losing about 2/3 of my friends - some drifted away; others asked a lot of questions or made quite a few sneering comments.
Today, since i work in a parish and most of my friends are Catholic, the main hostility that comes my way is from family members.
i can't give you many specific examples because i tend to easily forget remarks made against my faith - i don't really care to store them in my memory.
Today, since i work in a parish and most of my friends are Catholic, the main hostility that comes my way is from family members.
i can't give you many specific examples because i tend to easily forget remarks made against my faith - i don't really care to store them in my memory.
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