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todd_vetter33

The Dove At Baptism

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todd_vetter33
I took my son to the Museum in Cincinnati for the Egyptian Secrets exhibit. Hope you enjoy what I learned…..This was very cool because in it they taught much about how they preserved the bodies for burial in anticipation of the afterlife….somewhat similar to Christians who believe their bodies are resurrected for eternal life also when Jesus returns. This brought to my mind that the 12 tribes of Israel's leadership in Egypt before their 400 years of slavery, so I wondered who influenced who?

Egyptians believed that when a child was born, that a creator God formed their bodies out of clay in the mother's womb and then upon birth a bird would bring the soul to the infant at its first breath. And when the person died they also believed that the bird would take the soul into the afterlife. This is why you see pictures of Wings throughout Egyptian drawings and on the mummies just below the face or in their burial box. Makes you wonder why people would tell stories about the STORK bringing their baby LOL….. What is similar about this story in the bible?

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]CHRISTIANS USING THIS ANALOGY TO EXPLAIN CHRISTS BIRTH FROM HEAVEN:[color="#000000"] [/color][/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]MATT[/font][/size]
[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]He saw the Spirit of God descending [color="#0000ff"]like a dove [/color]and alighting upon Him. [b][sup]17[/sup][/b] And suddenly a voice [i]came[/i] from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]MARK[/font][/size]
[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]the Spirit descending upon Him [color="#0000ff"]like a dove[/color]. [b][sup]11[/sup][/b] Then a voice came from heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]Luke[/font][/size]
[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form [color="#0000ff"]like a dove [/color]upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, "You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased."[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]John
[/font][/size][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]John bore witness, saying, "I saw the Spirit descending from heaven [color="#0000ff"]like a dove[/color], and He remained upon Him. [b][sup]33[/sup][/b] I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, 'Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.'[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]It's very clear that the "[color="#0000ff"]like a dove[/color]" is an analogy for pagans to make the connection of this point in history for Jesus, as being a time of New birth or Rebirth. It's interesting that it does not say that it was a dove, but like a dove so you can see the connection to Egyptian mythology regarding the bird bringing the spirit.[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]Many Christians do not put much emphasis on Christ's baptism of the Holy Spirit as a real rebirth, but the Gospel writers used this bird imagery taken from ancient times to help the pagans understand the concept of being born again. The bible states that when Jesus is baptized by the Holy Spirit….it mentions that the Holy Spirit descended upon him [b][u]LIKE a dove[/u][/b]. NOT that it WAS a Dove…. but LIKE a dove. The writers of the gospels clearly understood pagan beliefs and were teaching Non Jews about being BORN again….. as we all must be….. in order to SEE the Kingdom of God. The pagans believed that [b]the bird[/b] brought the soul or the breath of life at birth. Here we see them use the bird symbolism descending [u]like a Dove[/u] on Jesus in the bible to teach the concept of Jesus as an adult, being born again during baptism of the Holy Spirit to be Gods Son. [/font][/size]

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]They used the pagan symbolism of the bird bringing life to the infant to help the pagans with their understanding of this concept of being born again by God as an adult. The following scriptures show Not only that this event was prophesied, but what the Father would announce from Heaven to Identify HIS Son AND WHEN JESUS WOULD BECOME HIS SON. We also see from Scripture CONFIRMATION THAT THIS DID HAPPEN. [/size][/font]

[b][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+12:18&version=KJV"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"][color="#0000ff"]Matthew 12:17-18[/color][/size][/font][/url][/b]
[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b][sup]17[/sup][/b]That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is [b]well pleased[/b]: I [b][u]will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.[/u][/b][/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]Psalms 2: 7 [b][sup]7[/sup][/b] [b][u]"I will declare the decree: [/u][/b]The LORD has said to Me, '[b][u]You [i]are[/i] My Son, [i]Today [/i]I have begotten You.[/u][/b][/font][/size]

[b][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+1:11&version=KJV"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"][color="#0000ff"]Mark 1:11[/color][/size][/font][/url][/b]
[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am [b]well pleased[/b].[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]2 Foot notes in illustrated bibles for Baptism of Christ,[/font][/size]

[b][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%203:22;&version=47;#en-ESV-25039"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"][color="#0000ff"]Luke 3:22[/color][/size][/font][/url][color="#000000"][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"] NLT[/font][/size][/color][/b]

[b][color="#000000"][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]Some manuscripts [i]beloved Son; today I have begotten you[/i] [/font][/size][/color][/b]

[b][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%203:22;&version=51;#en-NLT-25015"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"][color="#0000ff"]Luke 3:22[/color][/size][/font][/url][/b][color="#000000"][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"] [b]ESV [/b][/font][/size][/color]

[b][color="#000000"][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]Some manuscripts read [i]my Son, and today I have become your Father.[/i] [/font][/size][/color][/b]

[b][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Peter+1:17&version=KJV"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"][color="#0000ff"]2 Peter 1:17[/color][/size][/font][/url][/b]
[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am [b]well pleased[/b].[/size][/font]

[b][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+42:21&version=KJV"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"][color="#0000ff"]Isaiah 42:21[/color][/size][/font][/url][/b]
[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]The LORD is [b]well pleased[/b] for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honorable.[/size][/font]

[b][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+13:33&version=KJV"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"][color="#0000ff"]Acts 13:33[/color][/size][/font][/url][/b]
[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, [b][u]Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.[/u][/b][/font][/size]

[b][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+1:5&version=KJV"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"][color="#0000ff"]Hebrews 1:5[/color][/size][/font][/url][/b]
[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, [b][u]this day have I begotten thee?[/u][/b] And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son
[/size][/font]
[b][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+5:5&version=KJV"][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"][color="#0000ff"]Hebrews 5:5[/color][/size][/font][/url][/b]
[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son,[b] [u]to day have I begotten thee.[/u][/b][/font][/size]

[b][u][size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]WHAT DAY WAS THIS? HIS BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT….HE WAS BORN TO BE THE FATHERS SON.

For more evidence of these amazing facts and more. Test carefully what you find at this link. You'll find a treasure of information.

[/font][/size][/u][/b]

[url="http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf"]http://www.thedeatha...esurrection.pdf[/url]

God Bless Edited by todd_vetter33

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todd_vetter33
[quote name='HisChildForever' date='24 November 2009 - 07:30 PM' timestamp='1259109028' post='2008811']
Ugh, not again.
[/quote]


If you don't like good information there is a party i'm sure you can attend. I hear Hanna Montana lost her sunglasses at her last party when you attended, she wants them back little young one who has yet to live. Edited by todd_vetter33

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todd_vetter33
[b][size="3"]That appears to be an accurate title under your photo.
[b][size="3"][/size][/b]
bel·lig·er·ent [/size][/b](b[img]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gif[/img]-l[img]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ibreve.gif[/img]j[img]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gif[/img][img]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gif[/img]r-[img]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gif[/img]nt) [i]adj.[/i]
[b]1. [/b]Inclined or eager to fight; hostile or aggressive.
[b]2. [/b]Of, pertaining to, or engaged in warfare.[i]n.[/i] One that is hostile or aggressive, especially one that is engaged in war.

Characteristics of a person following the Christ.

[u][b]Are they men or women in the image of God whose ways are ways of violence, of oppression and wrong[/b][/u], who choose a lie rather than the truth? Nay, verily, till they are born again, and receive the [b][u]Spirit of Love and Wisdom within their hearts[/u][/b]. Then only are they sons and daughters of Israel, and being of Israel [u][b]they are children of God[/b][/u], And for this cause came I into the world, and for this I have suffered at the hands of sinners.

From the Ages of Ages is the Eternal Thought and the Thought is the Word, and the Word is the Act, and these Three are one in the Eternal Law, and the Law is with God and the Law proceeds from God. All things are created by Law and without it is not anything created that existeth. In the Word is Life and Substance, the Fire and the Light. The Love and the Wisdom are one for the Salvation of all. And the Light shineth in darkness and the darkness concealeth it not. The Word is the one Life-giving Fire, which shining into the world becometh the fire and light of every soul that entereth into the world. I am in the world, and the world is in me, and the world knoweth it not. I come to my own House, and my friends receive me not. But as many as receive and obey, to them is given the power to become the Sons and Daughters of God, even to them who believe in the Holy Name, who are born--not of the will of the blood and flesh, but of God. And the Word is incarnate and dwelleth among us

[url="http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf"]http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf[/url] Edited by todd_vetter33

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sacredheartandbloodofjesus
Here is an accurate translation of what you posted from the Bible

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to give testimony of the light, that all men might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but was to give testimony of the light. 9 That was the true light, which enlighteneth every man that cometh into this world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. 13 Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


I dont know where you got your translation but it seems really unorthodox.

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HisChildForever
[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='24 November 2009 - 08:00 PM' timestamp='1259110837' post='2008846']
If you don't like good information there is a party i'm sure you can attend. I hear Hanna Montana lost her sunglasses at her last party when you attended, she wants them back little young one who has yet to live.
[/quote]

Oh my, aren't you the little patronizing cupcake.

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HisChildForever
[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='24 November 2009 - 08:21 PM' timestamp='1259112076' post='2008881']
That appears to be an accurate title under your photo.
[/quote]

Aw, you noticed! Thanks.

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todd_vetter33
[quote name='sacredheartandbloodofjesus' date='24 November 2009 - 08:33 PM' timestamp='1259112800' post='2008894']
Here is an accurate translation of what you posted from the Bible

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to give testimony of the light, that all men might believe through him. 8 He was not the light, but was to give testimony of the light. 9 That was the true light, which enlighteneth every man that cometh into this world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. 13 Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


I dont know where you got your translation but it seems really unorthodox.
[/quote]

That is the difference between what God spoke and what Rome wanted to make cannon since Rome valued the laws of man over the laws of God. How can Rome claim to change God's times and laws If their bible stated what I quoted from God. it's for this reason they took emphasis off of the Law so they can establish their claim to have power to change God's times and laws.

You quoted what was allegedly spoken or recorded by a man named John. but only speculation establishes the history of the gospel of John. So that you know my words are true. Here is a prophecy that Rome fulfilled.

Daniel 7

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b][sup]25[/sup][/b]And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.[/font][/size]

"The Pope has the power to [b]change times[/b], to [b]abrogate laws[/b], and to [b]dispense [/b]with all things, [b]even the precepts of Christ." [/b]"The Pope [b]has the authority [/b]and often exercised it, [b]to dispense [/b][b]with the command of Christ." [/b][i]Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap. [/i](The Pope can modify divine law.) Ferraris' [i]Ecclesiastical Dictionary. [color="#0000ff"](this claim is based only on speculation and authority given to themselves by attempting to change what God spoke). See final thought so that you know my words are true.[/color][/i]

"[b]Not the Creator of Universe[/b], in Genesis 2:1-3,-[b]but the Catholic Church can claim the honor [/b]of having granted man a pause to his work every seven days."-S. C. Mosna, Storia della Domenica, 1969, pp. 366-367.

"The [b]Pope [/b]is of great authority and power that he can [b]modify[/b], explain, or interpret even [b]divine [/b][b]laws[/b]... The [b]Pope [/b]can [b]modify divine law[/b], since his power is not of man, [b]but of God[/b], and he acts [b]as vicegerent of God upon earth[/b]." -Lucius Ferraris, [i]Prompta Ribliotheca, "Papa," art. 2, [/i][i]translated.[/i]

They [b]"dispense with the command of Christ???" [/b]When the Catholic church is asked...[i]"Why [/i][i]do you feel you have the power, authority and ability to change Scripture to match your [/i][i]Traditions?" [/i][b]They answer... [/b]
"Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which [b]all modern religionists agree [/b][b]with her[/b]; --she could not have substituted [b]the observance of Sunday the first day of the [/b][b]week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, [/b]a change for which there is [b]no [/b][b]Scriptural authority[/b]." [b]-[/b]Rev. Stephan Keenan, [i]A Doctrinal Catechism, "On the Obedience Due to [/i][i]the Church," chap. 2, p. 174. [/i](Imprimatur, John Cardinal McCloskey, archbishop of New York.)

"The [b]authority of the church [/b]could therefore not be bound to the [b]authority of the Scriptures[/b], because the Church had changed...the Sabbath into Sunday, [b]not by command of Christ[/b], but by its [b]own authority." [/b][i]Canon and Tradition, p. 263
[/i]
The study I am sharing with you illustrates why your 4 Roman cannon gospels came from a single written gospel source. I don't make the claims with out providing very clear evidence. According to prophecy our forefathers inherited lies. This study helps understand what those lies are. it's up to you to take time to read it. Though it can testify of God. You must still come to God if you are to have life.

[url="http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf"]http://www.thedeatha...esurrection.pdf[/url]

Final thought!
Rome wrote their own authority on paper to control you. See for your self.

And Jesus said unto them, Ye have heard what men in the world say concerning me, but whom do ye say that I am? Peter rose up with Andrew his brother and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God, who descendeth from heaven and dwelleth in the hearts of them who believe and obey unto righteousness. And the rest rose up and said, each after his own manner, These words are true, so we believe. 3. And Jesus answered them saying, Blessed are ye my twelve who believe, for flesh and blood hath not revealed this unto you, but the spirit of God which dwelleth in you. I indeed am the way, the Truth and the Life; and the Truth understandeth all things.[b] [/b][color="#0000ff"][b]4. All truth is in God, and I bear witness unto the truth.[/b] [b][u]I am the true Rock, and on this Rock do I build my Church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it[/u], and out of this Rock shall flow rivers of living water to give life to the peoples [/b][/color][color="#0000ff"][b]of the earth.[/b][/color] 5. Ye are my chosen twelve. In me, the Head and Corner stone, are the twelve foundations of my house builded on the rock, and on you in me shall my Church be built, and in truth and righteousness shall my Church be established. 6. And ye shall sit on twelve thrones and send forth light and truth to all the twelve tribes of Israel after the Spirit, and I will be with you, even unto the end of the world.[b] [/b][color="#0000ff"][b]7. But there shall arise after you, men of perverse [/b][b]minds who shall through ignorance or through craft, suppress many things which I have spoken unto you, and lay to me things which I never [/b][b]taught, sowing tares among the good wheat which I have given you to sow in the world. 8. Then shall the truth of God endure the contradiction of [/b][b]sinners, for thus it hath been, and thus it will be. But the time cometh when the things which they have hidden shall be revealed and made known, [/b][/color][b][color="#0000ff"]and the truth shall make free those which were [/color]bound. [/b]9. One is your Master, all ye are brethren, and one is not greater than another in the place which I have given unto you, for ye have one Master, even Christ, who is over you and with you and in you, and there is no inequality among my twelve, or their fellows. 10. All are equally near unto me. Strive ye not therefore for the first place, for ye are all first, because ye are the foundation stones and pillars of the Church, built on the truth which is in me and in you, and the truth and the law shall ye establish for all, as shall be given unto you. 11. Verily when ye and your fellows agree together touching anything in my Name, I am in the midst of you and with you. 12.[b] [/b][color="#0000ff"][b]Woe is the time when the spirit of the world [/b][b]entereth into the Church, and my doctrines and precepts are made void through the corruption of men and of women. Woe is the world when the [/b][b]Light is hidden. Woe is the world when these things shall be. [/b][/color] Edited by todd_vetter33

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HisChildForever
[quote name='sacredheartandbloodofjesus' date='24 November 2009 - 08:50 PM' timestamp='1259113826' post='2008916']
oh.....another stormstomper
[/quote]

Pretty much. Isn't Toddy's website the coolest? All those crazy diagrams.

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todd_vetter33
[color="blue"]More evidence of Rome attempting to change God's Laws
[/color][color="blue"]
[color="blue"][/color]The Catholic Doors Ministry
presents the Bible Course
[/color][color="brown"]"THE TEN COMMANDMENTS" by the Catholic perception which claims they can change what God spoke.[/color]
[color="black"][u][url="http://www.catholicdoors.com/courses/commandments.htm"]http://www.catholicd...ommandments.htm[/url]
[b][color="black"][/color][/b]INTRODUCTION[/u][/color]

1. What are the 10 Commandments of God? [indent]1. I am the Lord your God; you shall not have strange gods before Me.
2. You shall not take the Name of the Lord your God in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Lord's day.
4. Honour your father and your mother.
5. You shall not kill.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.
9. You shall not covet your neighbour's wife.
10. You shall not covet your neighbour's goods.

Now the ten commandments as God spoke them from Jabel Al Laws. ([url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-eSRcr9CWw&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.c...feature=related[/url])

1.) "I [i]am[/i] the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. "You shall have no other gods before Me.

2.) "You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness [i]of anything[/i] that [i]is[/i] in heaven above, or that [i]is[/i] in the earth beneath, or that [i]is[/i] in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, [i]am[/i] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth [i]generations[/i] of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

3.) "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold [i]him[/i] guiltless who takes His name in vain.

4.) " Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day [i]is[/i] the Sabbath of the LORD your God. [i]In it[/i] you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who [i]is[/i] within your gates. For [i]in[/i] six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that [i]is[/i] in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

5.) " Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the LORD your God is giving you.

6.) "You shall not murder.

7.) "You shall not commit adultery.

8.) "You shall not steal.

9.) "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

10.) "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that [i]is[/i] your neighbor's."

Hope you enjoyed our chat. even more so, Please enjoy the "[b][u]CRAZY DIAGRAMS[/u][/b]" that illustrate why Christianity is in a perpetual state of Darkness always learning and never finding the light of God (truth by the perception of God through the law which defines for us the character of our true parent, if we want to live). Man cannot live by bread alone but by every word that proceeded from the mouth of God. Matt 4:4. Why does Rome belive they can live by eating the bread but ditching the Words that proceeded from the mouth of God?

Jesus himself said the bread profits nothing. His words are truth and they are life. For the strongest evidence that Rome tried to change God's times.. see gregorian calender that is kept today instead of the clendar that God made for us to keep the ceremonial feasts by. The feasts reveal the Christ to us. For even more evidence do your own time line for the week prior to Crucifixion to see for your self why your bible in any translation misrepresents the perfection of the word of God (that which proceeds from God's mouth) IE truth!

[url="http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf"]http://www.thedeatha...esurrection.pdf[/url]
[/indent] Edited by todd_vetter33

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todd_vetter33
[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='24 November 2009 - 10:33 PM' timestamp='1259120003' post='2008988']
None of your sources are legitimate so none of your information is legitimate. End of story again.
[/quote]

So the Catholic CCC is not legitimate nor is Exodus 20 or any bible verse from the Catholic NT????

Your not making a good case for the Catholic Church or Christianity as a whole by stating that which they produced and preserved through out the years is legitimate. Please with out speculation define that which is legitimate. I am inclined to agree with you that there is no true to life written testimony since the letter only kills and it's the spirit that gives life. That which is legitimate is the voice of truth from heaven that History records the men of the past receiving when they were of the truth.

I'm quite certain i have referenced Catholic Doctrine with everything i have shared with you today.

God Bless Edited by todd_vetter33

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