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Knights Of Columbus Third Degree Ceremony


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#1 Pliny

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 03:43 AM

Is there anyone here who has been through it and who was appalled by it as I was?

It's supposed to be a secret for some alleged benefit of new members, but I frankly do not feel beholden to keep it.

#2 Ziggamafu

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 07:38 AM

I am a knight. I find it extremely difficult to believe that anyone who is a third degree knight would frown on the third degree ceremony. I would be utterly ashamed and feel horribly guilty if I ever shared the details of the ceremony with someone who was not a knight - not just because I would be revealing myself to be a duplicitous rogue for not keeping my word and dishonoring my brother knights - but primarily because of what it would take away from any potential knight. That would be a sad, sad shame.

#3 OraProMe

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 07:42 AM

Is there anyone here who has been through it and who was appalled by it as I was?

It's supposed to be a secret for some alleged benefit of new members, but I frankly do not feel beholden to keep it.


What happens?

#4 mommas_boy

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 08:04 AM

Is there anyone here who has been through it and who was appalled by it as I was?

It's supposed to be a secret for some alleged benefit of new members, but I frankly do not feel beholden to keep it.


I am a third degree knight. I have heard this from other Brother Knights before. If your Third Degree was performed correctly, you should be feeling as you do. That you feel as you do is testament to your potential as a knight. That is the purpose of the Degree.

I have three pieces of advice to offer:

  • take a few days to process the ceremony and its purpose.
  • talk to myself, Ziggamafu, and other brother knights here and those that you know more personally. Do so in private.
  • attend other third degree ceremonies to come to a fuller understanding of the ceremony.

I am sending you a personal message to chat about your degree ceremony more in private. Blessings, brother knight.

Vivat Iesum,
Kris

#5 mommas_boy

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 08:50 AM

I am sending you a personal message to chat about your degree ceremony more in private. Blessings, brother knight.


Sigh. I can't send you a PM yet because you're so new. Here's a solution. Send me an email at this disposable email address (I hate spambots):

dnmcrxkgwr@mailinator.com

I'll get back in touch with you from my real email address.

#6 Didacus

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 09:18 AM

Here's what the Knights of Columbus are up to in Nrothern Ontario; I used to work up in Kap for about a year or so.

pro-life message from the Knights

Too bad city council and the mayor are idiots (I would bet they were pressured after the decision was taken to reconsider, how much you want to bet the monument won't go through).

#7 Nihil Obstat

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:53 AM

I am a third degree knight. I have heard this from other Brother Knights before. If your Third Degree was performed correctly, you should be feeling as you do. That you feel as you do is testament to your potential as a knight. That is the purpose of the Degree.

I have three pieces of advice to offer:

  • take a few days to process the ceremony and its purpose.
  • talk to myself, Ziggamafu, and other brother knights here and those that you know more personally. Do so in private.
  • attend other third degree ceremonies to come to a fuller understanding of the ceremony.

I am sending you a personal message to chat about your degree ceremony more in private. Blessings, brother knight.

Vivat Iesum,
Kris

Well now I'm all curious. :unsure: I know better than to ask though.

#8 CatherineM

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 12:25 PM

My husband is a 4th degree, I think, because he won't even tell me that much. I just know he's had two ceremonies. It's the only thing he has kept a tight lip about.

#9 sacredheartandbloodofjesus

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 12:32 PM

Im a third degree and the reason we shouldnt share the details about the ceromonies is because it may spoil it for any other male Catholic planning on joining the Knights.

#10 Pliny

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 12:44 PM

I am a knight. I find it extremely difficult to believe that anyone who is a third degree knight would frown on the third degree ceremony. I would be utterly ashamed and feel horribly guilty if I ever shared the details of the ceremony with someone who was not a knight - not just because I would be revealing myself to be a duplicitous rogue for not keeping my word and dishonoring my brother knights - but primarily because of what it would take away from any potential knight. That would be a sad, sad shame.


Well, I don't know if I need to feel "ashamed" for being deceived and manipulated.

I didn't agree to having my Saturday afternoon wasted with nonsense. I thought it would be a meaninful experience.

And perhaps I am no longer a "brother" since I have not paid my dues for a few years?

I have nothing against the Knights and there are a lot of guys at my church who are Knights who I consider friends, but I'm just speaking my mind about the Third Degree Ceremony.

I think it's wrong. It's not the way to teach anyone a lesson. I didn't even buy it, and was not fooled by it for the most part, but I resent the intent to manipulate.

I would not be surprised if there are many others who feel as I do, but who are "shamed" into silence about it, or who don't want to rock the boat and say anything.

#11 mommas_boy

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 12:54 PM

Well, I don't know if I need to feel "ashamed" for being deceived and manipulated.

I didn't agree to having my Saturday afternoon wasted with nonsense. I thought it would be a meaninful experience.

And perhaps I am no longer a "brother" since I have not paid my dues for a few years?

I have nothing against the Knights and there are a lot of guys at my church who are Knights who I consider friends, but I'm just speaking my mind about the Third Degree Ceremony.

I think it's wrong. It's not the way to teach anyone a lesson. I didn't even buy it, and was not fooled by it for the most part, but I resent the intent to manipulate.

I would not be surprised if there are many others who feel as I do, but who are "shamed" into silence about it, or who don't want to rock the boat and say anything.


You are not being shamed into silence. Nor is anyone else. We are simply pointing out that the current forum is not the proper place for such discussions, because we don't want to spoil the ceremony on anyone else (eg. Nihil, who expressed some form of interest, in this thread).

If you would like to continue this discussion, please speak with me via the private message I just sent you. Now that you have 10+ posts, we can speak privately.

Edited by mommas_boy, 16 December 2009 - 12:58 PM.


#12 Pliny

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 01:14 PM

I am a third degree knight. I have heard this from other Brother Knights before. If your Third Degree was performed correctly, you should be feeling as you do. That you feel as you do is testament to your potential as a knight. That is the purpose of the Degree.

I have three pieces of advice to offer:

  • take a few days to process the ceremony and its purpose.
  • talk to myself, Ziggamafu, and other brother knights here and those that you know more personally. Do so in private.
  • attend other third degree ceremonies to come to a fuller understanding of the ceremony.

I am sending you a personal message to chat about your degree ceremony more in private. Blessings, brother knight.

Vivat Iesum,
Kris



I appreciate your charitible response.

My third degree experience was soon after I converted to Catholicism almost 15 years ago, so this is not something recent, though it has stuck in my craw somewhat.

Up until that point, every Catholic experience I had as a seeker and later as a convert was a good and wonderful experience. What I appreciated most about my seeking into the faith is that it was never pushed. I was always given the space to discern for myself. All Catholic teaching was presented in a reasonable way. I would have resisted any attempt to teach by deception.

You don't need to lock someone in a room all day, and then tell him it was for his own good to teach him about boredom. You don't need to slap somoene on the face to teach him about the need to forgive. You don't need to lie on the ground in my yard pretending to be ill to teach me a lesson about charity and coming to the aid of the sick. All these things can be taught from real life experiences. (And none of these examples have to do with the K of C third degree initiation directly).

I have had the time to reflect on the Third Degree, and even encountered some of the members of the degree team on a K of C bowling tournament, and one of them explained it all to me, but not to my satisfaction. It just seems to me that everyone who is involved buys into it without question.

I will admit that I am in the minority about this. The only other person I know who at the time was strongly against used a crude expression and called it a "mind ****." (He's now a priest, so I hope he's cleaned up his language a little).

I have told my wife all about it and told my sons too. I never used trickery with my sons, and would not be a part of having the tricked by a Catholic organization of all things.

Further, it was not a sin to share that with them, and might very well have been a sin (for me) to NOT share that.

It would not be a sin for me to tell all on the internet, either, though I refrain for now, as I am interested in looking at this from your perspective.

#13 Pliny

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 01:31 PM

You are not being shamed into silence. Nor is anyone else. We are simply pointing out that the current forum is not the proper place for such discussions, because we don't want to spoil the ceremony on anyone else (eg. Nihil, who expressed some form of interest, in this thread).


I am far from convinced there is anything to "spoil," and far from convinced that it is not my duty to expose it.

#14 OraProMe

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 09:09 PM

I want to hear what happens! Secret organizations are so lol.

#15 Pliny

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 01:28 AM

I want to hear what happens! Secret organizations are so lol.


The Knights are not a "secret organization."

The meetings are very straight-forward. Nothing strange about them. In my parish, I stopped going to the meetings because they were dominated by a couple of guys who made jokes and clowned around during the entire meeting, and that got to be a little old, especially since they were the only ones having any fun, and I stopped going.

It's the ceremonies that are secret. My theory is that a secret initiantion is something that is appealing to some, and that it was instituted as a way to compete with the Masons, and keep Catholic men from joining them.

I think the the Third Degree is possibly something that might have been of some value in the late 1800's or early 1900's, but I don't see the relevance today, and I don't see the need to deceive in order to teach, under any circumstance.

I thought at first the different degrees required some learning and some achievement, but all you have to do is endure the ceremony and you're in. There's nothing new to learn and nobody fails.

My criticism is of the Third Degree Ceremony only--not of the organization or the good works they do.

But I would be more likely to be an active knight if they would improve our meetings and make them more meaningful and fun, and if they would do away with that atrocious Third Degree ceremony and replace it with something that is not manipulative.

#16 OraProMe

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 03:04 AM

I'll rephrase: any organization with secret ceremonies is so lol.

#17 Pliny

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 03:25 AM

The purpose of the secret is so that it doesn't spoil it for the new members who are supposed to go to the "ceremony" unaware of what it's in store for them, or at least that's the rationale.

I believe that it serves a further purpose by appealing to the need for some to be a part of a secret club.

I agree that there is something "lol" about it, and I would not be very popular among my Knight friends in real life if I exposed it, but I frankly feel like I'm the boy who is stating the obvious--that the emperor is not wearing any clothes.

#18 dUSt

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 09:35 AM

The beauty of our faith is that there are many diverse organizations and orders that appeal to different kind of people. So, the Knights may not be your thing. God made us all different, so it would be odd if 100% of people all were in to the same thing. Let's not ruin it or condemn the people who really do get something out of the third degree ceremony.

#19 the_rev

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 11:32 AM

Mr. Pliny, It seems that you have joined Phatmass to discuss only controversial topics you feel are so and have a personal agenda. I wasn't surprised to see you started this thread. (This is merely an observation and not a direct attack)

#20 sacredheartandbloodofjesus

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 11:48 AM

The beauty of our faith is that there are many diverse organizations and orders that appeal to different kind of people. So, the Knights may not be your thing. God made us all different, so it would be odd if 100% of people all were in to the same thing. Let's not ruin it or condemn the people who really do get something out of the third degree ceremony.


cool avatar Dust.




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