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Knights Of Columbus Third Degree Ceremony

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Old_Joe    43
Old_Joe
This thread topic is part of the reason I suggested that we should have a Knights of Columbus Forum. Unfortunately, there's no way to enforce the Knights only rule.

[quote name='Raphael' date='17 December 2009 - 09:42 PM' timestamp='1261104137' post='2022553']
This makes me want to become a third degree knight.
[/quote]

I thought you were. Edited by Old_Joe

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Raphael    279
Raphael
[quote name='Old_Joe' date='19 December 2009 - 11:04 PM' timestamp='1261281849' post='2023335']
This thread topic is part of the reason I suggested that we should have a Knights of Columbus Forum. Unfortunately, there's no way to enforce the Knights only rule.



I thought you were.
[/quote]

Nope.

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Old_Joe    43
Old_Joe
[quote name='Raphael' date='19 December 2009 - 11:06 PM' timestamp='1261281974' post='2023336']
Nope.
[/quote]

huh. weird. I could've sworn you said that you went through the first three degrees in one day. That's what I did.

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Raphael    279
Raphael
[quote name='Old_Joe' date='19 December 2009 - 11:08 PM' timestamp='1261282114' post='2023338']
huh. weird. I could've sworn you said that you went through the first three degrees in one day. That's what I did.
[/quote]
I thought you could only go through the first in one day, the second and third another day, and the fourth a year later.

Every time they had the ceremonies at Newman, I'd have some other obligation to take care of.

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Old_Joe    43
Old_Joe
[quote name='Raphael' date='19 December 2009 - 11:24 PM' timestamp='1261283072' post='2023348']
I thought you could only go through the first in one day, the second and third another day, and the fourth a year later.

Every time they had the ceremonies at Newman, I'd have some other obligation to take care of.
[/quote]

I think it depends on what state council decides. Here you can go through the first, second, and third degree initiations in one day, but then you have to wait for a year before you go through the fourth degree initiation.

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Guest SkiOne   
Guest SkiOne
The reason you can not share it just like someone else stated that the lessons of the third degree would be ruined if the surprise was spoiled. While the events that transpired were un-nerving (having just gotten back from my 3rd degree) we must remember we are soldiers (in a manner of speaking) and we are to be strong. Our characters must be at a certain point to be worthy to be a knight. I am very proud of myself having gotten it and for the most part reacted in a way that I am not ashamed. If you took your 3rd degree and are still shaken up by it go talk to your priest.

Vivat Jesus!

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Guest TYGFE!   
Guest TYGFE!
Further, it was not a sin to share that with them, and might very well have been a sin (for me) to NOT share that.

It would not be a sin for me to tell all on the internet, either, though I refrain for now, as I am interested in looking at this from your perspective.
[/quote]

I just joined this site for the sole purpose of responding to the above heresy. I am only trying to be charitable (we are called to admonish each other's errors in the Spiritual Works of Mercy, after all).

Without telling any details of how the degrees are actually earned, I wish to remind my brother knights that the 3rd Degree includes swea

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Guest TYGFE!   
Guest TYGFE!
(CONTINUED)

...involves swearing before God that we will never tell anyone. When we tell others, we are breaking a vow that we took before God Himself.

How could that not be a sin?

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CatholicCid    200
CatholicCid
Wouldn't telling us that the 3rd Degree test involves a vow of secrecy about the 3rd degree test be telling us something about the 3rd degree test?

I'm not a Knight anyway (yet), but would be hesitant of any group that made you swear a [b]vow[/b] to secrecy.

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mommas_boy    53
mommas_boy
[quote name='CatholicCid' timestamp='1286281781' post='2177940']
Wouldn't telling us that the 3rd Degree test involves a vow of secrecy about the 3rd degree test be telling us something about the 3rd degree test?

I'm not a Knight anyway (yet), but would be hesitant of any group that made you swear a [b]vow[/b] to secrecy.
[/quote]

I'm a Third Degree Knight. The Knights of Columbus was partly founded to combat Secret fraternities, such as the Freemasons. Thus, the secrecy has a different purpose, and it's not what you think -- it is there so that the Degree ceremonies can have their proper effect. [b]The degree ceremonies are more like a movie; they are ruined if someone tells you how it ends.[/b] Only the initiation process is secret; everything else about the Knights is very public.

Also, the vows or promises (or whatever) or not very strong. They are told keep secret the initiation ceremonies, unless required to reveal them by civil or religious law. Again, the idea here is that the Knights just want to keep their ceremonials a surprise for future inductees.

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Guest orbit   
Guest orbit
I didn't appreciate the subterfuge overall but I went because it was the only way to know exactly what happens and became 3rd degree. Having seen it to the end I should have just walked out short of taking the vow, short of actually becoming a Knight. But the pressure is strong, isn't it friend, some of your friends are there or you wouldn't be there, maybe your priest is there too. It's hard. I should have walked out.

I didn't buy into the play acting. It was rather obvious it was an act. Oh the drama. I have heard it said too often (as it is said below) that it would spoil the message to tell what goes on, to reveal the ending. Odd, when I read a review of a book or a movie it doesn't ruin the message of same for me. Every time I read the Gospels I know Jesus is going to die at the end and resurrect. It knew it the first time I read it, before I had become a Christian but it didn't ruin the ending or the messages within, chief among them that I was a sinner in need of divine grace.

The vow I took on my wedding day wasn't. My marriage is solid. My very public reception into the Church included words of promise of commitment that weren't secret. Nothing wrecked there.

That an entire organization of do good-ing is predicated on a secret initiation is problematic and totally unnecessary in a day when what is needed before the world is a Church that is fully self disclosing and honest. What rubbish that I could not tell my wife what went on or my children.

Without the ridiculous drama and costumes Knights want us to believe that it would be impossible to effectively present the message of not judging others, of upholding the honor of the priesthood, of honoring our Blessed Mother and of serving our Lord Jesus Christ and His Church, to the death if necessary? Really. We need secrets and oaths of silence for that? Really? Really.

And others below have said there is nothing scary, no, no there isn't but there is an inflated sense of importance (the unknown, the waiting in adjacent rooms, knocks on doors, of pretending to be someone other than who they actually are, of thus and so heavy handed pronouncements) not scary per se but daft unnecessary silliness. Oh, fear not, no particulars have been particularity revealed.

Read the book Parish Priest. All you boys do understand that [font="arial, sans-serif"][size="2"]Father [/size][/font]McGivney did not want his new group to look anything like Masons or other secret societies but yielded to the norms and and the pressures of the day for the sake of sparing the souls of men and their families in the anti-Catholic America of the mid and late 1800s - you do understand that? Admirable it was. Is the same, the exact same method needed today? I say no.

And if these degree rites are so intrinsically effective and such a wonderful thing so life changing how is it that the vast majority of councils, in spite of whatever do good-ing and money raising they may do, are none the less places of boozing, gambling, bawdy talk and far too often generally a bastion of ignorance of the essentials of the Catholic faith? It's [font="arial, sans-serif"][size="2"]embarrassing[/size][/font]. Why aren't the marriages of the members generally [font="arial, sans-serif"][size="2"]exemplary and notably different from the world at large? Why do many, many Knights know no more about the essentials of the Catholic faith than other Catholics? But I digress...[/size][/font]

I am no longer a Knight by virtue of the fact that I no longer maintain membership because I cannot ask another man to go through those degrees. However, as I placed myself under that binding oath, even though the nature of it strikes me as something of a sham, the wording of it makes it binding on the Christian soul even when you are no longer a Knight, so I honor what I would rather not and still do not reveal the big secret.

So, I cannot tell you about it or it would wreck it for you, that's the gist is it, dear Knight? Are you kidding? Is this the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church or is it Amway?

Someone below makes the case for the vows being not very strong - sure thing but try telling what you saw and heard to someone in your parish and let that get back to your brother or former brother Knights and see what the breaking of that vow would do for you, relationally speaking in your local parish. Not very strong, sure.

I didn't have to take a vow of secrecy to be [font="arial, sans-serif"][size="2"]received[/size][/font] into Catholic Church. Jesus is the way, the life and the truth - he may have sometimes asked a few not to tell what they had seen and heard until his time was fully manifest but that is not in any way the same as being asked to take a vow of secrecy about a man-made degree.

Is there good "fruit", good deeds, good men in the KofC? Sure. God is a God of grace. Not saying otherwise in total. God bless the Knights. Really, God bless them.

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Gregorius    20
Gregorius
The degree ceremony is epic! I think every Christian man needs to experience something like this.
I learned another lesson that day apart from the ones I am bound to keep secret. And this is a basic Christian message: we are totally dependant upon God. God gives us simple commands, and with all our own strength we cannot follow them. The Knights are a powerful arm of the Church. And like Her beloved, our strength is revealed in our frailty and weakness, for our strength is in God and not ourselves. What I felt that day was a fortaste of what Christ felt on the cross. And for all of that, I am a better person.

If any Knight is confused/concerned by what they saw, I'm also somebody to talk to in private. If any practicing Catholic man wants to be a Knight but is on the fence about it, I am also willing to talk about it.

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Lil Red    10,168
Lil Red
i think many local Knights are full of the essence of cow. a good organization when you look at the big picture. a shiitake mushroom one when you look close up. (in my personal experience dealing with local Knights.) btw, the philters had fun with this post.

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BG45    3,139
BG45
They tried to recruit at a CSA meeting last semester; the guy they sent was totally unprepared and I felt like I was an insurance pitch than a religious meeting. :blink:

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Micah    15
Micah
I saw a Knight of Columbus today selling raffle tickets on mainstreet. This thread and some of the responses have sort of ruined their image for me. I know at least one that's a great guy though.

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BG45    3,139
BG45
[quote name='Micah' timestamp='1295215305' post='2200803']
I saw a Knight of Columbus today selling raffle tickets on mainstreet. This thread and some of the responses have sort of ruined their image for me. I know at least one that's a great guy though.
[/quote]

Oh I know a number of great Knights individually, but this thread and a couple of the recruitment attempts have left me with a bit of a sour taste.

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Paladin D    36
Paladin D
I'm a 4th Degree Knight, and it is true that there are too many Knights that don't seem to live up to the values of the Faith. Some councils do a fantastic job in serving their local parish communities, and of course there are some who don't seem to really do anything. There are many factors that lead to this, and one must judge it on an individual basis. The KofC as a *whole* does so much good for the Church through the efforts of its members and their families, one just has to go to KofC.org or read a Columbia magazine to see some of this (or if you have a competent council). The organization from the top, sends a strong Catholic message which encourages growth in one's spiritual life with God and one's love for family, friends, and community; however, it gets lost in translation many times when it lands at the local council level. I've seen councils that were straight out of the recruitment pamphlets and met my expectations, and other councils in which I was baffled to even see calling themselves Knights of Columbus.

I do hope and pray that those who have had any negative experiences with the Knights of Columbus, or live in parish communities who's local council doesn't seem to live up to expectation, to please keep what I said into consideration and know that there is much good that occurs and many motivated members that help make it happen. Edited by Paladin D

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Nihil Obstat    9,205
Nihil Obstat
The council at my parish falls under the umbrella of Knights who don't do much of anything. Once in a while they host a pancake breakfast. Weeeeee. I haven't joined. :|
Unfortunately, there's no University council either.

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CajunPirate    0
CajunPirate
The point of the ceremony is all about virtue. Father Michael J. McGivney knew that most men are bad listeners; at long functions information tends to go clean through our ears. That is why he wanted to test our virtue; see if we have what it takes when push comes to shove (if we could walk the walk). I remember the whole thing being slightly campy, but that message was deeply impressed upon me: Do you have what it takes to defend the faith? It's one thing to recite apologetics; it's quite another to actually practice.

I hope this thread doesn't discourage men from accepting the 3rd degree. I also hope we haven't ruined the experience for anyone who's read this before embarking upon the ceremony... Edited by CajunPirate

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