27 replies to this topic

[MC IMaGiNaZUN]

Wall Street Journal full article - CLICK HERE

By Charlotte Allen

Mary Daly, a retired professor at Boston College who was probably the most outr� of all the dissident theologians who came to the fore of Catholic intellectual life in the years right after the Second Vatican Council, died on Jan. 3 at age 81. Back in the 1960s and 1970s, which might be called the golden age of Catholic dissidence, theologians who took positions challenging traditional church teachings�ranging from the authority of the pope to bans on birth control, premarital sex, and women's ordination�dominated Catholic intellectual life in America and Europe. They seemed to represent a tide that would overwhelm the old restrictions and their hidebound adherents.

Now, 45 years after Vatican II concluded in 1965, most of those bright lights of dissident Catholicism�from the theologian Hans K�ng of the University of T�bingen to Charles Curran, the priest dismissed from the Catholic University of America's theology faculty in 1987 for his advocacy of contraception and acceptance of homosexual relationships�seem dimmed with advanced age, if not extinguished. They have left no coherent second generation of dissident Catholic intellectuals to follow them.

Prof. Daly certainly pushed the envelope. In 1968, she published "The Church and the Second Sex," a book that accused the Catholic Church of oppressing and "humiliating" women by excluding them from its "patriarchal" hierarchy. The title of her most famous work, "Beyond God the Father" (1973), is self-explanatory. At some point afterward, Prof. Daly, despite being raised Catholic and earning degrees in theology and literature from three different Catholic colleges plus the University of Fribourg, left the church to embrace ever more belligerent brands of feminism.

She got into trouble with Boston College, the Jesuit institution where she had taught since 1966, for barring men from her advanced classes in women's studies. In the wake of a sex-discrimination complaint launched by a male student, Prof. Daly and her employer engaged in a round of litigation during the late 1990s that culminated in her voluntary retirement in 2001. She spent her last years promoting vegetarianism, antifur activism, a protest of Condoleezza Rice's 2006 commencement speech at Boston College, and the coining of male-baiting neologisms (an example: "mister-ectomy").

The trajectory of her life story is not unusual among Catholic dissidents. The Young Turk of Vatican II�and pet of the progressive Catholic media of the time�was Hans K�ng. A Swiss-born, movie-star-handsome priest whom Pope John XXIII had made a peritus, or theological adviser, to the council, Father K�ng swept through a tour of U.S. Catholic universities to accolades in 1963. And his 1971 book questioning papal infallibility�which got him stripped of his license to teach Catholic theology in 1979�turned him into a living martyr among progressives. He is still at T�bingen (last heard from in October blasting Pope Benedict XVI's overtures to conservative Anglicans as "angling in the waters of the extreme religious right"), but he's 81.

The Belgian Dominican priest Edward Schillebeeckx, who had worked unsuccessfully to persuade the assembled bishops of the Second Vatican Council to downgrade the authority of the pope�and who was condemned in 1986 for holding that there was no biblical support for the ordaining of Catholic priests�died in December at age 95. The Rev. Charles Curran, who was a controversial figure at Catholic University as early as 1967, when he was temporarily removed from his tenured position over his views on birth control, and who moved to Southern Methodist University after his final dismissal from Catholic two decades later, is now 75.

Another prominent figure in liberal Catholic intellectual circles is Sister Sandra M. Schneiders, who is famous for her assertions that Jesus was a feminist and that God should be referred to as "she" as well as "he," as well as for her advice that progressive orders of nuns treat representatives of a planned Vatican investigation like "uninvited guests." She is also past retirement age and is listed as "professor emerita" at the Jesuit School of Theology in Berkeley, Calif.

So where is the second generation of brilliant progressive Catholic theologians? There are plenty of liberal lay Catholics. The church's ban on artificial birth control is nearly a dead letter, a majority of Catholics say they believe their church should ordain women, and 40% have no moral objections to abortion, according to a 2009 Gallup poll. But dissident Catholicism seems to have lost steam as an intellectual movement, and not only because the issues relating to sex and papal authority that originally sparked Catholic dissidents have not changed in nearly 50 years.

The first-generation dissidents were products of a strong and confident traditional Catholic culture against which they rebelled, one whose intellectual standards grounded them in the faith they later came to question. Sister Schneiders, for example, earned four degrees from Catholic institutions, including the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome. Yet most Catholics of her generation have not passed on the tenets of their faith to their children�the offspring of the Vatican II generation tend either to be churchless or not to go to church�or, in the case of academics, to their students. It's hard to rebel when you don't even know what you are rebelling against.

Not that conservative Catholicism is in any better straits; it's a vibrant but niche branch of the religion, and its leading intellectuals�Robert George, Mary Ann Glendon�aren't theologians. But it is fair to note that when Prof. Daly died, she left behind no young Mary Dalys to continue waging her quixotic war against the faith that shaped her, whether she liked it or not.

[KeenanParkerII]

Well, the author may feel pessimistic about the Church, but at the end of the day the Church is here to stay, and the dissidents are gone. 1 - 0 Traditional Catholics.

[Raphael]

Wall Street Journal full article - CLICK HERE
Not that conservative Catholicism is in any better straits; it's a vibrant but niche branch of the religion, and its leading intellectuals—Robert George, Mary Ann Glendon—aren't theologians. But it is fair to note that when Prof. Daly died, she left behind no young Mary Dalys to continue waging her quixotic war against the faith that shaped her, whether she liked it or not.

Good article (because it's good news!) except for this bit. I've never even heard of Robert George and I've only really heard of Mary Ann Glendon a couple times. Considering myself a trained beginning theologian who is also a part of the latest generation of "conservative" Catholics, I wonder how they could have overlooked Pope Benedict, who's a hero for his motu proprio, or Burke, Rigali, Bruskewitz, Olmstead, Vasa, Dolan...and those are just the bishops...what about Hahn, Sri, Corapi, Groeschel, and so many more?

[Ash Wednesday]

But dissident Catholicism seems to have lost steam as an intellectual movement, and not only because the issues relating to sex and papal authority that originally sparked Catholic dissidents have not changed in nearly 50 years.

More or less, for 50 years, the pope has told dissident Catholicism to sit down.

[eagle_eye222001]

Good article (because it's good news!) except for this bit. I've never even heard of Robert George and I've only really heard of Mary Ann Glendon a couple times. Considering myself a trained beginning theologian who is also a part of the latest generation of "conservative" Catholics, I wonder how they could have overlooked Pope Benedict, who's a hero for his motu proprio, or Burke, Rigali, Bruskewitz, Olmstead, Vasa, Dolan...and those are just the bishops...what about Hahn, Sri, Corapi, Groeschel, and so many more?

Yeah I liked the article except the author really didn't look up devout Catholics. It seemed like the author just completely dismisses the notion of a conservative Catholic theologian existing.

Plus it seems that conservatism is on the rise...the revival of the Latin Mass, a new translation coming out...etc.

Edited by eagle_eye222001, 15 January 2010 - 07:06 PM.

[Socrates]

Not that conservative Catholicism is in any better straits; it's a vibrant but niche branch of the religion, and its leading intellectuals—Robert George, Mary Ann Glendon—aren't theologians. But it is fair to note that when Prof. Daly died, she left behind no young Mary Dalys to continue waging her quixotic war against the faith that shaped her, whether she liked it or not.

Not exactly sure what the author means by "conservative Catholicism," but I'd disagree that "conservative" orthodox Catholicism is dying out.
I'm sure my experience is somewhat biased having lived most my life in orthodox "conservative Catholic" circles, but I'd say Catholic orthodoxy has actually been on the rise over the past several decades. Most of the younger Catholics I've known who take their religion seriously and are active in the Church are orthodox and "conservative," including those who have become priests and nuns. Most of the new Catholic colleges that have been founded over the past several decades are orthodox, and enrollment has been growing. The parishes, dioceses, priestly and religious orders that are growing are largely orthodox.
I'm not a polyanna about the future of the Church, and realize that serious problems remain, but I think declaring "conservative Catholicism" to be in dire straits is not accurate. While total numbers may remain unimpressive, I think orthodoxy and "conservatism" is the future of the Church. It's orthodox "conservative" Catholics in the younger generations that are active and influential in the Church, and will determine its future direction, not those folks who list themselves as "Catholic" on opinion polls, but rarely or never darken the door of a Catholic church.

Edited by Socrates, 15 January 2010 - 08:23 PM.

[Ed Normile]

I thought this article was full of inaccuracies and assumptions. The gallup poll stating a " majority of catholics feel the church should ordain women and that 40% have no moral objections to abortion. Its well known that polls can be seeded to represent the views of the poll takers, I wonder if this poll was taken from lukewarm catholics. Conservative catholicsim is a "niche branch" I notice the author did not offer any references to this tidbit of info. She prefaces these remarks with "So where is the second generation of brilliant progressive Catholic theologians?" if they were truly brilliant their epitaphs would have shone, instead of diminishing, and then flickering out, which is the only part of her article I can agree with.

ed

[Sacred Music Man]

Ack1!!! I accidentally Negated Soc!!!! I meant to click plus! I'm on a different comp so things are smaller in this bigger res. A thousand appologies!

[Lil Red]

Ack1!!! I accidentally Negated Soc!!!! I meant to click plus! I'm on a different comp so things are smaller in this bigger res. A thousand appologies!

+JMJ+
i fixed it for you

[Socrates]

Ack1!!! I accidentally Negated Soc!!!! I meant to click plus! I'm on a different comp so things are smaller in this bigger res. A thousand appologies!

You'll be forgiven . . . just this once.

[USAirwaysIHS]

So where is the second generation of brilliant progressive Catholic theologians? There are plenty of liberal lay Catholics. The church's ban on artificial birth control is nearly a dead letter, a majority of Catholics say they believe their church should ordain women, and 40% have no moral objections to abortion, according to a 2009 Gallup poll.

Good think they don't let us dolts run the Church is all I can say.

[MissyP89]

The end of liberal theology might be coming, yeah, but what about the millions of people out there who were catechized in that era? I fear the damage will outlast the theology in a lot of ways,

[Nihil Obstat]

The end of liberal theology might be coming, yeah, but what about the millions of people out there who were catechized in that era? I fear the damage will outlast the theology in a lot of ways,

What I hope for is that a more orthodox form of Catholicism really gains a foothold, not just in Rome as it is now, but right down to the parish level. What I hope is that the more lukewarm Catholics- the ones who attend Mass usually but to whom it doesn't really mean much after Sunday ends- experience a fuller and more vibrant Catholicism that can break past the prejudices that the world has managed to cement around their hearts and minds. It's an ideal that is very close to my heart in a lot of ways, especially because of my own situation, and I pray that it's not just another fantasy.

[Lil Red]

Good article (because it's good news!) except for this bit. I've never even heard of Robert George and I've only really heard of Mary Ann Glendon a couple times. Considering myself a trained beginning theologian who is also a part of the latest generation of "conservative" Catholics, I wonder how they could have overlooked Pope Benedict, who's a hero for his motu proprio, or Burke, Rigali, Bruskewitz, Olmstead, Vasa, Dolan...and those are just the bishops...what about Hahn, Sri, Corapi, Groeschel, and so many more?

+JMJ+
because it's about an agenda. well-known and smart Catholics do not fit the party line.

[Sacred Music Man]

You'll be forgiven . . . just this once.

Plus one for assertion.

[King's Rook's Pawn]

My prediction is that Catholics will be more conservative but less numerous in the next few generations, at least in the West. Those who won't go with official teachings will just go, as has been demonstrated over the past decades. But it remains to be seen whether progressivism some day experiences a resurgence on one issue or another.

[Raphael]

I submitted my comments to the Wall Street Journal Online. I challenged them to find an editorialist who would balance out the article.

[Raphael]

The comment thread is starting to get a little heated. Y'all should head over there and check it out. Bombard them with Catholicism.

[Lounge Daddy]

Not exactly sure what the author means by "conservative Catholicism" ...

Gosh I am glad I am not the only one who doesn't care for that kind of language in a religious discussion. It made me cringe. I always found it uncomfortable when people use language like "conservative" and "liberal" when discussing Catholicism.

For one thing, those are largely political terms. And secondly, the meaning is subjective, depending on time and location. But some people feel the need to politicize every issue.

Orthodox and heterodox are better words to use.

[Raphael]

Gosh I am glad I am not the only one who doesn't care for that kind of language in a religious discussion. It made me cringe. I always found it uncomfortable when people use language like "conservative" and "liberal" when discussing Catholicism.

For one thing, those are largely political terms. And secondly, the meaning is subjective, depending on time and location. But some people feel the need to politicize every issue.

Orthodox and heterodox are better words to use.

Indeed. Enter the debate in the comments section, L_D. I'm sure you'll have valuable input. It would really help if a person older than myself showed himself to be orthodox.