The Great Catholic Monarch Of Prophecy

[infinitelord1]

i just wanted to say that i thought the catholic church did not believe in prophecy after a certain point in history...particularly after christ died.

He will not believe in any god at all [except for himself] [Daniel 11:37]

how would he (the antichrist) be involved with the catholic church...especially since he will not believe in God?

[infinitelord1]

i really dont think the whore of babylon is the catholic church or has anything to do with rome.

the actual city of babylon was located in iraq...if you look at where another great city lies not too far from ancient babylon...that city being Basrah, Iraq...then you would see that it could definetly be the Whore of Babylon since all the waters (along with filth and waste) run from Ancient Babylon to Basrah. On top of that...you got many peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues...in iraq (including basrah) right now...especially since our military is present here at the moment. this also could very well be the "mother of harlots and abominations of the earth".

furthermore,

17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth [King James Version; the New International Version Bible uses "hills" instead of "mountains"].
17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
17:12 And the ten horns which thou saw are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

i think the last verse is pretty much why people think the whore of babylon is rome...because rome does have an influence on many different countries.

this is just my two cents worth...im certainly no expert...ive just got a lot of time on my hands, and have nothing better to think about. im certainly open to criticism so long as you dont make a fool of me.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='06 March 2010 - 07:08 AM' timestamp='1267873687' post='2067468']
i just wanted to say that i thought the catholic church did not believe in prophecy after a certain point in history...particularly after christ died.

He will not believe in any god at all [except for himself] [Daniel 11:37]

how would he (the antichrist) be involved with the catholic church...especially since he will not believe in God?
[/quote]
Revelation ended with the death of the Apostle St John. Many saints have predicted events over the last 2000 years, and like appearances of Mary, we are free to totally ignor them as they are not part of the deposit of faith.

And you got the Scripture verses right, Rome was the target of the phrase whore of Babylon,but because Rome was the seat of imperial power who were persecuting christians and feeding them to the lions, not because it was the seat of the church.

[kafka]

that passage you quoted above infinite, I think has to do with the second part of the Tribulation and the rise of Antichrist, so I am going to pass comment on that since those things occur hundreds of years after the great Catholic monarch and the Era of Peace.

[Nihil Obstat]

Kafka, you believe that the endtimes are beginning soon, right? Isn't the entirety of Judaism supposed to convert to Christianity before the Antichrist arrives? How do you expect that to come about?

[kafka]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='06 March 2010 - 04:16 PM' timestamp='1267910215' post='2067604']
Kafka, you believe that the endtimes are beginning soon, right? Isn't the entirety of Judaism supposed to convert to Christianity before the Antichrist arrives? How do you expect that to come about?
[/quote]
I do believe the End Times will begin soon. Perhaps this year.

The End Times or Tribulation is a sequence of events spanning about four centuries and finding its end in the Second Coming of Christ. It is divided into two separate and severe parts, namely a lesser part and a greater part, or a first part and a second part. The first part officially begins in the second half of with the outset of World War III (the first seal and horseman of Revelation) and ends after the Three Days of Darkness. After the first part of the Tribulation a brief time of peace will be given to the world and will coincide with the reign and kingdom of the great Catholic monarch.

Some Jews will convert during the first part of the Tribulation and the Era of Peace. The great Catholic monarch will bring the Catholic Faith to the Middle East and the Gospel will be preached anew. This will be the occasion of Jewish conversions, yet not all will convert.

The full conversion will take place during the seven year reign of Antichrist during the second part of the Tribulation, after Enoch and Elias return and begin preaching or perhaps when Christ finally Returns. When Christ Returns, he is not going to just destroy everything all at once.

Of course not all Jews are going to convert, and the Jews will not be that numerous in those times, and Enoch and Elias are not just sent to preach to the Jews. They will preach to the entire world.

Some people have made the mistake of thinking that the conversion of Jews happens first and then the End Times occurs, or that the conversion of the Jews must occur before Christ Returns, yet this is incorrect. The Fathers speculated about the conversion of the Jews based on a few verses of Romans. The conversion of the Jews is built in seemlessly with the unfolding of the events of the Tribulation. That is the correct way of looking at their conversion I think.

One thing that is interesting. A few eschatological commentators see in the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948 a significant eschatological event and apply it to the Seventy Weeks of Years in Daniel:

{9:24} Seventy weeks of years are concentrated on your people and on your holy city, so that transgression shall be finished, and sin shall reach an end, and iniquity shall be wiped away, and so that everlasting justice shall be brought in, and vision and prophecy shall be fulfilled, and the Saint of saints shall be anointed.
{9:25} Therefore, know and take heed: [b]from the going forth of the word to build up Jerusalem again, until the Christ leader,[/b] there will be seven weeks of years, and sixty-two weeks of years; and the wide path will be built again, and the walls, in a time of anguish.

Edited March 6, 2010 by kafka

[Nihil Obstat]

I was under the impression that Christ's return is immediately followed by the destruction of the world.

[cmotherofpirl]

The endtimes, of which we cannot know the day or the hour, will not begin until the ends of the earth have been offered the Gospel and the Jews have converted to the Church. Doesn't sound like its going to be anytime soon.

"For a thousand years in thy sight are as yesterday, which is past. And as a watch in the night,"
- Psalms 89,4



"He hath remembered his covenant for ever: the word which he commanded to a thousand generations."
- Psalms 104,8

[Nihil Obstat]

I'm sorry that I haven't been paying as close attention as I should have. When you say that you think it will begin soon, are you referring to the Chastisement?

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='kafka' date='06 March 2010 - 04:44 PM' timestamp='1267911895' post='2067616']
I do believe the End Times will begin soon. Perhaps this year.

The End Times or Tribulation is a sequence of events spanning about four centuries and finding its end in the Second Coming of Christ. It is divided into two separate and severe parts, namely a lesser part and a greater part, or a first part and a second part. The first part officially begins in the second half of with the outset of World War III (the first seal and horseman of Revelation) and ends after the Three Days of Darkness. After the first part of the Tribulation a brief time of peace will be given to the world and will coincide with the reign and kingdom of the great Catholic monarch.

Some Jews will convert during the first part of the Tribulation and the Era of Peace. The great Catholic monarch will bring the Catholic Faith to the Middle East and the Gospel will be preached anew. This will be the occasion of Jewish conversions, yet not all will convert.

The full conversion will take place during the seven year reign of Antichrist during the second part of the Tribulation, after Enoch and Elias return and begin preaching or perhaps when Christ finally Returns. When Christ Returns, he is not going to just destroy everything all at once.

Of course not all Jews are going to convert, and the Jews will not be that numerous in those times, and Enoch and Elias are not just sent to preach to the Jews. They will preach to the entire world.

Some people have made the mistake of thinking that the conversion of Jews happens first and then the End Times occurs, or that the conversion of the Jews must occur before Christ Returns, yet this is incorrect. The Fathers speculated about the conversion of the Jews based on a few verses of Romans. The conversion of the Jews is built in seemlessly with the unfolding of the events of the Tribulation. That is the correct way of looking at their conversion I think.

One thing that is interesting. A few eschatological commentators see in the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948 a significant eschatological event and apply it to the Seventy Weeks of Years in Daniel:

{9:24} Seventy weeks of years are concentrated on your people and on your holy city, so that transgression shall be finished, and sin shall reach an end, and iniquity shall be wiped away, and so that everlasting justice shall be brought in, and vision and prophecy shall be fulfilled, and the Saint of saints shall be anointed.
{9:25} Therefore, know and take heed: [b]from the going forth of the word to build up Jerusalem again, until the Christ leader,[/b] there will be seven weeks of years, and sixty-two weeks of years; and the wide path will be built again, and the walls, in a time of anguish.
[/quote]

"Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abomination shall be one who makes desolate, even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate." (Daniel 9:27)

"And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand, two hundred and ninety days (1290). Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty five days (1335)." (Daniel 12:11-12)

Doesnt this suggest that the end of times or "tribulation" will last only 3 1/2 years? not 400 years? I believe these scriptures are referencing the tribulation regarding the antichrist and end times.

[kafka]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='06 March 2010 - 05:36 PM' timestamp='1267915004' post='2067638']
I was under the impression that Christ's return is immediately followed by the destruction of the world.
[/quote]
I disagree with that notion which I guess is the popular Catholic notion. I dont have all the details worked out but the idea is based on a lot of Scripture, and quite plainly a reflection on how Jesus works. Ultimately I dont want to get into that argument here, because we have the first part of the Tribulation to deal with and the Second Coming is still far away. All the things surrounding the great Catholic monarch and the Angelic Shepherd, the two wars, the reunification of the Orthodox and Protestant Churches, the three days of darknewss, the Era of Peace, and the Gospel preached anew all must first come to pass. These are the events of the first part of the Tribulation.

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='06 March 2010 - 11:58 PM' timestamp='1267937925' post='2067815']
I'm sorry that I haven't been paying as close attention as I should have. When you say that you think it will begin soon, are you referring to the Chastisement?
[/quote]

I dont use the term Chastisement. I use the terms End Times or Tribulation, a coherent sequence of events unfolding over centuries and divided into two severe parts.

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='07 March 2010 - 03:10 AM' timestamp='1267949406' post='2067936']
"Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abomination shall be one who makes desolate, even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate." (Daniel 9:27)

"And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand, two hundred and ninety days (1290). Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty five days (1335)." (Daniel 12:11-12)

Doesnt this suggest that the end of times or "tribulation" will last only 3 1/2 years? not 400 years? I believe these scriptures are referencing the tribulation regarding the antichrist and end times.
[/quote]
the one week of years in verse 27 is the seven year reign of antichrist, yet this seven year reign is set within a much larger framework of the Tribulation as a whole. Events which occur hundreds of years beforehand lead up to this severe second part of the Tribulation.

Antichrist's reign is divided into two parts. Half way through his reign (about 3.5 years) antichrist will decide to set up the abomination of desolation which is a false eucharist in the Catholic Churches. He does this in reaction to a battle waged and won by Catholics against his military. So in retaliation he decides to try and destroy the Church from within with the aid of the False Prophetess and apostate bishops and priests.

This is when the Faithful are suppose to 'flee to the mountains' and it is shortly after he sets up the abomination that Enoch and Elias return and begin to preach for the remaining 3.5 years or 1290 days leading up to the Return of Christ.

Edited March 7, 2010 by kafka

[infinitelord1]

I have been pondering myself whether or not the end days are coming any time soon. I certainly dont look down on anyone for thinking this way although I will admit if we had this conversation a while ago then I would have just taken it with a grain of salt. But, man, there is certainly a lot of earthquakes going on in the world these days. And with Iran massing nuclear enrichment sites and all that stuff...the whole prophecy about a muslim nation firing nukes at paris, and taking over europe could very well happen. not sure if im willing to put my faith into that, but i will say its definately possible.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='08 March 2010 - 09:00 AM' timestamp='1268060410' post='2068760']
I have been pondering myself whether or not the end days are coming any time soon. I certainly dont look down on anyone for thinking this way although I will admit if we had this conversation a while ago then I would have just taken it with a grain of salt. But, man, there is certainly a lot of earthquakes going on in the world these days. And with Iran massing nuclear enrichment sites and all that stuff...the whole prophecy about a muslim nation firing nukes at paris, and taking over europe could very well happen. not sure if im willing to put my faith into that, but i will say its definately possible.
[/quote]
Many PMers would recommend Trial Tribulation and Triumph: before During and After the Antichrist by Desmond A. Birch. I can recommend it now, since I'm about 100 pages in. Very readable, very thorough, and above all very Catholic.

[kafka]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='08 March 2010 - 10:00 AM' timestamp='1268060410' post='2068760']
I have been pondering myself whether or not the end days are coming any time soon. I certainly dont look down on anyone for thinking this way although I will admit if we had this conversation a while ago then I would have just taken it with a grain of salt. But, man, there is certainly a lot of earthquakes going on in the world these days. And with Iran massing nuclear enrichment sites and all that stuff...the whole prophecy about a muslim nation firing nukes at paris, and taking over europe could very well happen. not sure if im willing to put my faith into that, but i will say its definately possible.
[/quote]
Here is the way I look at it. The earthquakes and all the movements in history such as the development of nuclear weapons in Iran are not the sure-tail sign that the Tribulation is about to fall on us. It is much deeper. This is a work that God has been planning for a long time now, and it seems all the elements predicted in Sacred Scripture are falling into place, such as the birth of the great Catholic monarch just to name one.

What made me realize that the Tribulation was about to fall upon us before I started to study the End Times in any detail is quite simply the truth that the Church and the world is more evil today than in any other time in history. This is something I cannot just prove to anyone. It is a deep sense based on a lot of long musings and penetration into themes and elements spanning all of salvation history. I can point certain signs such as the absurd complexity in the world. The overwhelming evil of abortion. The loss of Faith in the Eucharist. The decline of Christian civilization in Europe. The moral apathy. The disruption and disorder common in the modern family structure. But it is also a lot of little things. I remember a couple of years ago I watched this dubbed cassette tape of a show I taped in the early 90's. What struck me about it was the commercials. Even in the early 90's people in general were more innocent, simple, naive in a good way. In short there was still this trace of goodness. I dont see this today. It is about the trends. The deep things one cannot quite put one's finger on.

And then I realized that if God truly loves the Church and the world, he simply must get involved in an extra-ordinary way, since we are beyond all human help. We have turned away from all the ordinary help God has offered us. We have cut ourselves off from the reality God has created for us and have set up this pseudo-reality cut off from the past and mindless of the future. Like we are stuck in a time-warp waiting for God to stoop down and pull us out of it. I think a lot of people have a sense of this however without the fullness of Catholic teaching it is difficult to figure out. Consequently, we have all these end time fads going around.

And this I think is exactly what He will do when He initiates His End Times. Reboot history. The Tribulation is not some subtle sequence of events. It will be astonishing. Everyone will in some way be perplexed. Everyone astounded. Once it begins there is no turning back. The Church and the world will never be the same. Never. Institutions, organizations, families, etc. will continue to be however there will be a substantial change. It is God's new and special work leading to the fullness of the Kingdom of Heaven. This is how our early ancestors in the Faith viewed the End Times, like the apostle Jude in his Epistle. It is a time set apart from ordinary salvation history. It redirects the Church and the world to the supreme event of Christ's Second Coming and beyond that to the general resurrection, the general judgment and ultimately the creation of the New Heaven and the New Earth. This is why I really like Avery Dulles' little passage from his "Models of the Church"

"The final coming of the Kingdom, I believe, will be the work of God, dependent on his initiative. But it seems likely that, as Rahner suggests, the parousia will not occur until human effort,"has gone to its very limits and so is burst open by salvation from above by developing its own powers." The coming of the Kingdom will not be the destruction but the fulfillment of the Church. More than this, it will be the future of the world, insofar as God's gracious power is at work far beyond the horizons of the institutional Church. The final consummation will transcend the dichotomy between the Church and world. The glorious, triumphant Church will be indivisibly united with the renewed cosmos, "the new heavens and the new earth" foreseen by the prophets. And the triumph will not be that of a Church resting on its own laurels, but that of Christ who triumphs in his Church in spite of the weaknesses and sinfulness of men."

The study of the End Times all started for me a few years ago when I woke up one morning and had this strange premonition that the great Catholic monarch is alive and that I must study and find out for myself if this is true. And now I think it is true. At this point I am very confident that God is about to begin to accomplish some things that the prophets, the Saints, and mystics have been predicting for hundreds and thousands of years. As you can see I am very invested in this way of thinking. I may be wrong, but that is upon me. Remember this is a lot of my speculative thinking.

Edited March 8, 2010 by kafka

[sacredheartandbloodofjesus]

I once had a real-lifelike dream, even before I knew anything about The Trinity and scripture and Church teaching. It happened with my family and I playing basketball outside(which we do alot) and we looked up and saw a huge comet-like object getting closer to Earth. We ran inside turned on the news and they had a video of the comet coming closer and closer with a countdown clock on the screen of when it would hit. Then all of a sudden the whole Earth shook beneath my feet and yellowy smoke and dust flew throughout my house, and time just stopped! I was shown in my soul all of the sins I ever comitted and their horrible consequents, I was shown how I was not ready for death and it was like the worst pain ever. Time then resumed to normal and there was total destruction going on.

This dream had a powerful effect on me, even though I was completely in the dark in those days I had this urge to go to confession as soon as I could make my sacraments. I have kinda gotten the notion that this is the warning you hear about in certain prophecies.

There was another time not too long ago where I had this similar dream but this time when we saw the comet approaching I fell to my knees and started praying the Rosary and then my house caved in and darkness. Then I woke up.