Passover One Week Away

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='Tridenteen' date='24 March 2010 - 08:50 PM' timestamp='1269481820' post='2079466']
JMJ
Um, my papist mind is confused. So, if the Last Supper was re-establishing the diet of beofore sin entered the world, we are taking about the Garden of Eden. So, Adam and Eve ate unleavened bread? Does that mean they had a stove? According to the Douhey Rheims Bible (great translation of the Latin Vulgata) the only substances that Jesus Christ Consecrated at the Last Supper were unleavened bread and wine. By eating the perfect diet, would we be allowed to partake of meat? [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif[/img]
[/quote]

The unleavended bread is a symbol. God's words are bread from Heaven. We are to eat the truth of God. Ingest it until it becomes us and then we will reflect the character of our true parent.

Did you read the material posted before asking the question? You would not have asked the question you did had you read the whole post. The bread with leaven is truth mixed with lies. Remember Jesus warning regarding the leaven of the pharasees?

Our denominational churches are no different than the pharasees. Making doctrines built on the fragments of text filling in their differing perceptions with speculations. It's not untill one gets the truth from God (spirit of truth within) that the bread is unleavened and perfect word in understanding to be shared.

Men of God received truth from God, Men in darkness only read about the men who received the word of God from God. Sadly men in darkness are content to remain in darkness instead of seeking the truth about God from God. Jesus did say that those of the truth will hear his voice, Not that they would read abou the men of the past who did.

God Bless

Edited March 25, 2010 by todd_vetter33

[Tridenteen]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='24 March 2010 - 09:09 PM' timestamp='1269482981' post='2079479']
The unleavended bread is a symbol. God's words are bread from Heaven. We are to eat the truth of God. Ingest it until it becomes us and then we will reflect the character of our true parent.

Did you read the material posted before asking the question? You would not have asked the question you did had you read the whole post.
[/quote]


JMJ
I did not read it. I would like to know where it is from before I read it. So, since I am new here, do you deny the True Presence? And if so, how do you injest the Words of God? To me that is like saying that God comes down and put's forth His Words into the bread, and then you feel we gain the grace from the words, which become us? Wouldn't it just be easier to accept the True Presence, that JESUS comes down from Heaven, and gives us not only His Words, but His Grace, and His Wisdom?

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='Tridenteen' date='24 March 2010 - 09:16 PM' timestamp='1269483384' post='2079485']
JMJ
I did not read it. I would like to know where it is from before I read it. So, since I am new here, do you deny the True Presence? And if so, how do you injest the Words of God? To me that is like saying that God comes down and put's forth His Words into the bread, and then you feel we gain the grace from the words, which become us? Wouldn't it just be easier to accept the True Presence, that JESUS comes down from Heaven, and gives us not only His Words, but His Grace, and His Wisdom?
[/quote]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]The source is from the gospel of the 12. A more complete written gospel than the 4 currently found in the Christian bible. Based on Content manipulation it is definitely a product of the early Roman Church. The Catholic encyclopedia recognizes its existence in the early church. Many Catholics don't know that a copy has survived the ages and resurfaced. Those who do know of it simply want it buried again due to what it reveals about our past which I illustrate in the time line shared.

Paragraphs which i submit for evidence of Roman authorship are as follows. There are many more, these are just three.[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]" We believe in One Holy Universal and Apostolic Church: the Witness to all truth, the Receiver and Giver of the same. Begotten of the Spirit and Fire of God: Nourished by the waters, seeds and fruits of earth. Who by the Spirit of Life, her twelve Books and Sacraments, her holy words and works: knitteth together the elect in one mystical communion and atoneth humanity with God. Making us partakers of the Divine Life and Substance: betokening the same in holy Symbols."[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"]" Verily Peter I say unto thee, one of my twelve will deny me thrice in his fear and anger with curses, and swear that he knows me not, and the rest will forsake me for a season. But ye shall repent and grieve bitterly, because in your heart ye love me, and ye shall be as an Altar of twelve hewn stones, and a witness to my Name, and ye shall be as the Servants of servants, and the keys of the Church will I give unto you, and ye shall feed my sheep and my lambs and ye shall be my [color="#ff0000"]vice-gerents [/color]upon earth. But there shall arise men amongst them that succeed you, of whom some shall indeed love me even as thou, who being hotheaded and unwise, and void of patience, shall curse those whom God hath not cursed, and persecute them in their ignorance, because they cannot yet find in them the fruits they seek."[/font][/size]

[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b]"And one shall sit on my throne, who shall be a Man of Truth and Goodness and Power, and he shall be filled with love and wisdom beyond all others, and shall rule my Church by a fourfold twelve and by two and seventy as of old, and that only which is true shall he teach. And my Church shall be filled with Light, and give Light unto all nations of the earth, and there shall be [color="#ff0000"]one Pontiff[/color] sitting on his throne as a King and a Priest. 14. And my Spirit shall be upon him and his throne shall endure and not be shaken, for it shall be founded on love and truth and equity, and light shall come to it, and go forth from it, to all the nations of the earth, and the Truth shall make them free. "[/b][/font][/size]

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"]Due to this gospel being discovered in 1877, It has been surrounded by controversy regarding it's content. So much so that many have simply branded it as a Gnostic writing or a 19th century forgery by the founder and translator of the document who just so happend to be a Catholic.

When read in full it can be recognized that it was in the possession of the Roman Catholic Church due to many words that are Roman specific words found within its pages.

For the many who have claimed the document to be a 19th century forgery i submit the evidence you will find on page 33 of the link referenced time line shared. On page 33 you will find evidence that clearly illustrates the document to be ancient and you will not need carbon dating for this evidence, just common sense.

Everything presented in my time line that is ancient in origin is a written catholic product. Minus the OT historical writings which only the Jews can claim authorship of. See page 33 for amazing evidence that no one can refute regarding the ancient origens of the Gospel of the twelve.[/size][/font]


[url="http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection%20for%20catholics.pdf"]http://www.thedeatha...20catholics.pdf[/url]

You will find links for the gospel of the twelve through out the study shared. They will take you to the site where I found this amazing peice of our Christian past which existed and was promoted by Rome prior to the 3rd and 4th century councils.

The true presence is the spritual re-birth (born again process) that we are all to receive. This is not achieved through a wafer of bread. One can eat all pure food and still never receive the presence of God if they continue to of their own free will, live in sin by rejecting the wisdom the Law of God provides. The Law of God is a foundational stone which leads to recieving the spirit that gives life.

God Bless

Edited March 25, 2010 by todd_vetter33

[Nihil Obstat]

I'm still waiting for my darn pictograms!!!

Look man, it's not that hard!
[img]http://hammorabi.blogspot.com/pictogram.jpg[/img]

[kamiller42]

This thread could use a few Winchester jokes too.

[Marie-Therese]

Todd,

I am trying to keep my comments charitable, because I am truly confused. You continue to assert that because the Catholic Church observes the tradition of a Friday crucifixion, then this somehow negates the truth of the Catholic Church? It is universally accepted that Christ was not, in fact, born on Christmas as it is currently celebrated on December 25. Would this, for you, negate the fact of His birth, since it is not celebrated on the proper date (or day of the week, whatever)?

I suppose that I am curious as to why the choice of the Catholic Church (and any other Christian denominations who choose to observe the same Easter schedule) to celebrate the Sacrifice of Christ on Friday would have any impact at all on the inherent truthfulness of Christ's salvific act? How could this possibly make you so determined to make Catholics out to be liars? I am just truly confused.

And, as you know from previous threads, the Catholic Church does not recognize the Gospel of the 12, so any argument you make based on that is going to go in direct opposition to the teaching of the Church.

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='Marie-Therese' date='25 March 2010 - 01:13 AM' timestamp='1269497633' post='2079627']
Todd,

I am trying to keep my comments charitable, because I am truly confused. You continue to assert that because the Catholic Church observes the tradition of a Friday crucifixion, then this somehow negates the truth of the Catholic Church? It is universally accepted that Christ was not, in fact, born on Christmas as it is currently celebrated on December 25. Would this, for you, negate the fact of His birth, since it is not celebrated on the proper date (or day of the week, whatever)?

I suppose that I am curious as to why the choice of the Catholic Church (and any other Christian denominations who choose to observe the same Easter schedule) to celebrate the Sacrifice of Christ on Friday would have any impact at all on the inherent truthfulness of Christ's salvific act? How could this possibly make you so determined to make Catholics out to be liars? I am just truly confused.

And, as you know from previous threads, the Catholic Church does not recognize the Gospel of the 12, so any argument you make based on that is going to go in direct opposition to the teaching of the Church.
[/quote]

When you claim Jesus was born on Christmas or was crucified on Easter, are you telling the truth of the matter? Is True witness essential for salvation?

[b][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+14:25&version=NKJV"]Proverbs 14:25[/url][/b]
A [b]true[/b] witnesses delivers [b]souls[/b], But a deceitful witness speaks lies.

[b][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+6:19&version=NKJV"]Proverbs 6:19[/url][/b]
A false witnesses who speaks [b]lies[/b], is one who sows [b]discord[/b] among brethren.[b] [/b][b]dis·cord:[/b] (d s kôrd ) n.[i].[/i] [b]1. a. [/b]Lack of agreement among persons, groups, or things. [b]b. [/b]Tension or strife resulting from a lack of agreement; dissension.

By breaking the Law of God we sow discord among God and ourselves let alone the denominational divisions we form amongst ourselves.

[b]We have but to look at the entire Christian world from the outside looking in, to see the doctrinal confusions all claiming to be the truth, which [/b][b]can only be explained as differing in perception because they are built on half the truth. All are built on the bible, all Christians speak according [/b][b]to the portions of the bible that they perceive to be the higher truth among the differing testimonies of men within the bible, yet none speak [/b][b]according to the Law and testimony ([/b][b][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=8&verse=20&version=9&context=verse"]Isaiah 8:20[/url][/b][b]), but God says if we build on him, the true Rock, we will be solid. Our current perceptions of [/b][b]Solid when built on the bible comes from the “denominational Christian tradition" we accept as the highest perception of Bible truth. [/b]
If we are not built on the foundation stone of God through the law and spirit of God. We are not in spirit and in truth as the true worshippers of God are said by Jesus to be.

God Bless

[Winchester]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='22 March 2010 - 10:58 PM' timestamp='1269313088' post='2078129']
With the Passover only one week away from Today, it's fitting to share all the new information which has been illustrated in this study on How Jesus fulfilled the time specific prophecies of the passover as well as his 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth. With each page presenting little known facts about bible testimony and Jewish history which are primarily unknown to the Christian world; Those who take the time to read and understand what is shared by this study will find a treasure of information about our Jewish and Christian past. Enjoy the study. Here is the link.

[url="http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf"]http://www.thedeatha...esurrection.pdf[/url]

The study is in PDF format so you will need a PDF viewer software for the link to work on your computer.

May the Heavenly parent bless you greatly so that you can hear the voice that was promised to those who seek and find the truth from God.

Todd Vetter
[/quote]
Thanks for the study. I had run out of virtual toilet paper.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='24 March 2010 - 03:08 PM' timestamp='1269468525' post='2079336']
Nope, too much text. I want pictograms. You know what that is, right?
[/quote]
+JMJ+
knock it off.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Lil Red' date='25 March 2010 - 03:04 PM' timestamp='1269547442' post='2079913']
+JMJ+
knock it off.
[/quote]
I'm sorry. (To Todd as well.)

[Marie-Therese]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='25 March 2010 - 07:57 AM' timestamp='1269518238' post='2079657']
When you claim Jesus was born on Christmas or was crucified on Easter, are you telling the truth of the matter? Is True witness essential for salvation?

[b][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+14:25&version=NKJV"]Proverbs 14:25[/url][/b]
A [b]true[/b] witnesses delivers [b]souls[/b], But a deceitful witness speaks lies.

[b][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+6:19&version=NKJV"]Proverbs 6:19[/url][/b]
A false witnesses who speaks [b]lies[/b], is one who sows [b]discord[/b] among brethren.[b] [/b][b]dis·cord:[/b] (d s kôrd ) n.[i].[/i] [b]1. a. [/b]Lack of agreement among persons, groups, or things. [b]b. [/b]Tension or strife resulting from a lack of agreement; dissension.

By breaking the Law of God we sow discord among God and ourselves let alone the denominational divisions we form amongst ourselves.

[b]We have but to look at the entire Christian world from the outside looking in, to see the doctrinal confusions all claiming to be the truth, which [/b][b]can only be explained as differing in perception because they are built on half the truth. All are built on the bible, all Christians speak according [/b][b]to the portions of the bible that they perceive to be the higher truth among the differing testimonies of men within the bible, yet none speak [/b][b]according to the Law and testimony ([/b][b][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=8&verse=20&version=9&context=verse"]Isaiah 8:20[/url][/b][b]), but God says if we build on him, the true Rock, we will be solid. Our current perceptions of [/b][b]Solid when built on the bible comes from the “denominational Christian tradition" we accept as the highest perception of Bible truth. [/b]
If we are not built on the foundation stone of God through the law and spirit of God. We are not in spirit and in truth as the true worshippers of God are said by Jesus to be.

God Bless
[/quote]

OK. I understand your position. I do not agree with the foundation of your argument, but you have clarified your position. Thank you. God Bless.

[Winchester]

I'm not sorry. He has repeatedly called mother Church a liar.

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='Winchester' date='25 March 2010 - 03:28 PM' timestamp='1269548901' post='2079947']
I'm not sorry. He has repeatedly called mother Church a liar.
[/quote]


I have called what appears to be an organization lacking the spirit of God a liar and I submit evidence so solid it cannot be disputed or the return comments would be greater that what I have seen from this debate table so far. The Mother Church is the bride of the Christ. A people filled with the spirit of God receiving solid truth from God to share with the world.

Even High level members of the organization openly admit Satan is in the organization if you have seen recent news articles on the abuse scandals so are my words far from the truth or did the exorcist speak a lie with his accusation against the church?

If you think I have spoken a lie in this study that I have come to share; Please illustrate the page number and false testimony spoken regarding any of the Catholic doctrine illustrated in the time line.

The one criteria I have asked for is this, If you perceive anything I have shared to be a lie, Present a greater truth and evidence of this truth, so that your words are more than mear opinion backed only by traditional untenable statements.

I'm not asking too much for a people who claim to be of the truth of God. Jesus said those of the truth can hear His voice. I want to know what the voice of Christ says to you concerning the study I have shared.

I know I hear A voice that directs my studies to present what I have learned to be truth. Am I deceived? This is your chance to share your truth with me by illustrating why what I have come to share is not a truth by sharing the greater perception of truth backed by a testimony built on a solid Rock.

God Bless

Edited March 25, 2010 by todd_vetter33

[Winchester]

[quote name='todd_vetter33' date='25 March 2010 - 05:18 PM' timestamp='1269551890' post='2080012']


I know I hear A voice that directs my studies to present what I have learned to be truth. Am I deceived? This is your chance to share your truth with me by illustrating why what I have come to share is not a truth by sharing the greater perception of truth backed by a testimony built on a solid Rock.

God Bless
[/quote]
You consider yourself personally inspired--there's no way to argue with someone like that.

The refutation of your interpretation is extant. Go read it.

[todd_vetter33]

[quote name='Winchester' date='25 March 2010 - 04:21 PM' timestamp='1269552107' post='2080016']
You consider yourself personally inspired--there's no way to argue with someone like that.

The refutation of your interpretation is extant. Go read it.
[/quote]

There is no such thing as personally inspired. One is only inspired if the spirit of God is united to the soul. This requires the person and God to be connected as one. It is annotated partially in recognized Catholic doctrine regarding this when Christ explains how the body of His Church is one. The G-12 text gives further elaboration.

There is a way to argue with a person like me.. Present a greater truth that speaks according to the Law and testimony (Spirit of prophecy) for the time specific prophecies Jesus claimed to fulfill. The below Isaiah text is how you know if somone has the light of God according to Catholic Doctrine. This would be the productive way to argue this matter. Then there is the preferred method i have seen displayed by members here... Clanging cymbols and gongs.

[url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=8&verse=20&version=9&context=verse"]Isaiah 8:20[/url] KJV To the [u]law[/u] and to the [u]testimony[/u]: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them

[color="#0000ff"]Does what I share illustrate Jesus fulfilling the Law and time specific Prophecy? I know that what the Roman Church has shared with me thus far has not illustrated God fulfilling time specific Prophecy, so can it in truth be speaking a truth according to the Law and testimony (spirit of Prophecy)?

God Bless[/color]

Edited March 25, 2010 by todd_vetter33