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Obama Snubs Netanyahu


Rebecca2009

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Good. Israel isn't going to stop building illegal settlements until we make them. Netanyahu has snubbed us for At least a year. That croutons with Biden was just the last straw. He can put in his lot with America and moderate Israelis or he can put it in with ultra nationalist religious fanatics. He's going to have to choose and the sooner he figures that out the better

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Thy Geekdom Come

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='26 March 2010 - 01:38 PM' timestamp='1269625135' post='2080661']
I didn't know the Queen of England was a Jew!


:hehe:

Only three more years... only three more years... only three more years...
[/quote]
Remember when he was still campaigning and said in a debate, "during my first term..."

I cringed.

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[quote name='MIkolbe' date='26 March 2010 - 07:09 AM' timestamp='1269608972' post='2080520']
Leaving the room in a huff is NOT the way to effect change, Mr. President.
[/quote]
It is if you are a socialist dictator. :D

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[quote name='Raphael' date='26 March 2010 - 09:04 AM' timestamp='1269608675' post=]
Give me a break. Israel shouldn't care what America thinks any more. They might as well sever ties. I wouldn't blame them.
[/quote]

Israel has been seriously violating international law for about half a century. We are the one thing protecting them from being held responsible for their actions. We also give them loads of money. We've bought them peace with Egypt since the 70's. So they really need to care what we think

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Israel is a sovereign country and can do what it likes in the territories it conquered, just the the United States did when it conquered Mexico and annexed the American southwest. President Obama has the option of breaking diplomatic relations with Israel, with the agreement of Congress, but so far he has not chosen that course of action.

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[quote name='Hassan' date='26 March 2010 - 01:57 PM' timestamp='1269626275' post='2080687']
Israel has been seriously violating international law for about half a century. We are the one thing protecting them from being held responsible for their actions. We also give them loads of money. We've bought them peace with Egypt since the 70's. So they really need to care what we think
[/quote]
Many valid points below...

[quote][b]The Biden Incident
[/b]Obama’s response to a gaffe during the VP’s visit has revealed how one-sided his Middle East policy is.

Why did Pres. Barack Obama choose to turn a gaffe into a crisis in U.S.-Israeli relations?

And a gaffe it was: the announcement by a bureaucrat in the Interior Ministry of a housing expansion in a Jewish neighborhood in north Jerusalem. The timing could not have been worse: Vice President Joe Biden was visiting, Jerusalem is a touchy subject, and you don’t bring up touchy subjects that might embarrass an honored guest.

But it was no more than a gaffe. It was certainly not a policy change, let alone a betrayal.[b] The neighborhood is in Jerusalem[/b], and the 2009 Netanyahu-Obama agreement was for a ten-month [b]freeze on West Bank settlements excluding Jerusalem[/b].

Nor was the offense intentional. Prime Minister Binyamin [b]Netanyahu did not know about this move — step four in a seven-step approval process for construction[/b] that, at best, will not even start for another two to three years.

Nonetheless the prime minister is responsible. He apologized to Biden for the embarrassment. When Biden left Israel on March 11, the apology appeared accepted and the issue resolved.

[b]The next day, however, the administration went nuclear.[/b] After discussing with the president specific language she would use, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called Netanyahu to deliver a hostile and highly aggressive 45-minute message that the Biden incident had created an unprecedented crisis in U.S.-Israeli relations.

Clinton’s spokesman then publicly announced that Israel was now required to show in word and in deed its seriousness about peace.

[b]Israel? Israelis have been looking for peace — literally dying for peace — since 1947[/b], when they accepted the U.N. partition of Palestine into a Jewish state and an Arab state. (The Arabs refused and declared war. They lost.)

[b]Israel made peace offers in 1967, in 1978, and in the 1993 Oslo peace accords that Yasser Arafat tore up seven years later to launch a terror war that killed a thousand Israelis.[/b] Why, Clinton’s own husband testifies to the remarkable courage and vision of the peace offer made in his presence by Ehud Barak (now Netanyahu’s defense minister) at the 2000 Camp David talks. Arafat rejected it. In 2008, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert offered equally generous terms to Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas. Refused again.

[b]In these long and bloody 63 years, the Palestinians have not once accepted an Israeli offer of permanent peace, or ever countered with anything short of terms that would destroy Israel.[/b] They insist instead on a “peace process” — now in its 17th post-Oslo year and still offering no credible Palestinian pledge of ultimate coexistence with a Jewish state — the point of which is to extract preemptive Israeli concessions — such as a ban on Jewish construction in parts of Jerusalem conquered by Jordan in 1948 — before negotiations for a real peace have even begun.

Under Obama, Netanyahu agreed to commit his center-right coalition to acceptance of a Palestinian state; took down dozens of anti-terror roadblocks and checkpoints to ease life for the Palestinians; assisted West Bank economic development to the point where its GDP is growing at an astounding 7 percent a year; and agreed to the West Bank construction moratorium, a concession that Secretary Clinton herself called “unprecedented.”

What reciprocal gesture, let alone concession, has Abbas made during the Obama presidency? [b]Not one[/b].

[url="http://article.nationalreview.com/428479/the-biden-incident/charles-krauthammer"]And more...[/url]
[/quote]
So Hassan, teach me. What significant and realistic peace offering have the Palestinians brought to the table in the past 63 years?

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dominicansoul

[quote name='kamiller42' date='26 March 2010 - 02:08 PM' timestamp='1269626882' post='2080699']
So Hassan, teach me. What significant and realistic peace offering have the Palestinians brought to the table in the past 63 years?
[/quote]
hassan is filled with delusions of granduer about islam, so he won't be able to make any points...but I will...the only "peace" the muslims are looking for with Israel will only come when the "jewish infidels" give the muslims a share in the land they feel is owed to them. (When it isn't. mohammed's hallucinations dont' merit muslims rights to the Holy Land.)

Edited by dominicansoul
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geetarplayer

I agree with hassan that America has been a little too cozy with Israel throughout history and has maybe overlooked some improprieties by the Israeli government, but I don't understand Obama's motive or intention with this move. It makes him look like either a snob or a coward. I wonder if it was calculated or if he really just lost his cool?

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The settlements are illegal, and the Israeli government has been tolerating or encouraging terrible treatment of the people there. its becoming a very apartheid system. it isnt a muslim vs jew argument to me, its a country in violation of international law, doing inhumane practises, but still being cozied up to and given plenty of money.

Israel needs to fix its croutons up, or the USA should stop backing them up.

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Chestertonian

You're kidding! A regular congregant at Rev. Jeremiah Wright's church snubbed a right wing, orthodox "Zionist" Jew?

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geetarplayer

[quote name='Chestertonian' date='26 March 2010 - 06:09 PM' timestamp='1269637776' post='2080878']
You're kidding! A regular congregant at Rev. Jeremiah Wright's church snubbed a right wing, orthodox "Zionist" Jew?
[/quote]
:lol_sign:

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[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='26 March 2010 - 02:55 PM' timestamp='1269636950' post='2080864']
The settlements are illegal, and the Israeli government has been tolerating or encouraging terrible treatment of the people there. its becoming a very apartheid system. it isnt a muslim vs jew argument to me, its a country in violation of international law, doing inhumane practises, but still being cozied up to and given plenty of money.

Israel needs to fix its croutons up, or the USA should stop backing them up.
[/quote]
I suppose the American / Canadian Indians could claim the same thing about European settlement in North America.

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[quote name='Apotheoun' date='26 March 2010 - 03:57 PM' timestamp='1269644258' post='2080941']
I suppose the American / Canadian Indians could claim the same thing about European settlement in North America.
[/quote]

They have. and rightly so. we screwed them over. Canada and the USA's past history of relations with the native population are shameful, up until very recently with things like residential schools etc. we still dont have it right, though i beleive the current "reparations" stuff and reserves are working against that.

on the other hand, we arent pouring cement into their wells, or gang beating them when they go out alone. and we still shouldnt be supporting Israel when they are letting such things happen.

The fact that our ancestors treated the native population badly, while shameful, shouldnt keep us from either stepping in to stop a similar situation, or even easier, retracting our support of the individuals in question.

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[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='26 March 2010 - 05:04 PM' timestamp='1269644684' post='2080945']
They have. and rightly so. we screwed them over. Canada and the USA's past history of relations with the native population are shameful, up until very recently with things like residential schools etc. we still dont have it right, though i beleive the current "reparations" stuff and reserves are working against that.[/quote]
Then the US and Canada should practice what we preach and dismantle all our settlements.

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='26 March 2010 - 05:04 PM' timestamp='1269644684' post='2080945']
on the other hand, we arent pouring cement into their wells, or gang beating them when they go out alone. and we still shouldnt be supporting Israel when they are letting such things happen.[/quote]
Nope, Americans and Canadians just massacred tens of thousands (possibly millions) of native Americans.

[quote name='Jesus_lol' date='26 March 2010 - 05:04 PM' timestamp='1269644684' post='2080945']
The fact that our ancestors treated the native population badly, while shameful, shouldnt keep us from either stepping in to stop a similar situation, or even easier, retracting our support of the individuals in question.[/quote]
So Americans and Canadians are above the norms that we set for others. How fair minded of us.

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[quote name='Apotheoun' date='26 March 2010 - 04:12 PM' timestamp='1269645135' post='2080950']
Then the US and Canada should practice what we preach and dismantle all our settlements.


Nope, Americans and Canadians just massacred tens of thousands (possibly millions) of native Americans.


So Americans and Canadians are above the norms that we set for others. How fair minded of us.
[/quote]

im not really sure how Canada's and the USA's past in anyway prevents us from stopping giving money to a country that is repeating our past mistakes in the present.

just because Germany's past is sordid, doesnt mean its current citizens(who had nothing to do with the countries past transgressions, in the same way as it is with north america's population.) have to stand quiet when they see something bad happening. or they have to keep giving money to people who are doing bad things with it.

like you said in a previous thread, you cant "oppose" past actions, merely deplore them. the actions of Israel are not in the past, they are happening right now, why wouldnt you oppose them?

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