Discernment Is Ultimately Good :)

[Mary Veronica]

So I've been discerning religious life for awhile now. and it's no surprise to hear negatives about the communities I've considered. I hear them mostly from outsiders, and it's a huge concern if I hear it from former insiders. Honestly it's disturbing to any discerner to hear these things especially when they come as a pretense of a friendly concern.

personally, I wouldn't want my discernment to be influenced so much by the multitude, but it sometimes can't be helped. what people say about others can have a significant impact on future vocations.

As an effort to relieve discerners of the common guilt, confusion, uncertainties, and defensiveness, etc. I'd like to encourage a more beautiful and fruitful thread. that doesn't so much provoke interior conflicts or complicates discerning, but involves putting to work the "Grace" of discerning, which is ultimately good and hopeful and encourages fraternal support and understanding, and above all trust in the love of God.



I guess one concern could be, how do you find inner peace after hearing prejudices between different communities? there's so much temptation to look down on others, or take the side of others, or have human respect for any opinion, or just stay away from everything. even if the things that are said are TRUE, it would be nice to come out of it in the joy of God's Mercy and Love for all.

I and many others will appreciate if people can share their God-given inspirations of surviving temptations and discouragements for the Love of God and Souls .


may Jesus and Mary happily and lovingly guide and protect all vocations.
God Bless you who discern with peace and joy! Edited May 18, 2010 by Mary Veronica

[AccountDeleted]

The safest way to know the truth about a community is to visit it oneself, and if possible, to do a live-in with it. Those who post negatives might have had a negative experience themself with that community, although for another person it might be a positive experience. We are human, and our hurts and disappointments color our views, so while one should not completely accept what anyone says about a particular community, it could also serve as a warning flag to potential discerners if there are issues that make a community appear unhealthy in any way.

I enjoy hearing what experiences other have had, but I would never make my decision based on that alone. I might use some of the information however to frame my questions to the community to make sure that any concerns are addressed. So why not just take what others have to say as a personal reflection, and then do your own research into whatever community interests you?

Discernment of a religious vocation is a great grace, but that doesn't mean that there aren't some practical issues that need to be addressed when considering a community.

[JTheresa]

I love your idea!!

I know I had a really hard time discerning because I didn't know which websites had the kind of communities I was looking for. Then I would ask my friends and relatives and they would always recommend the really popular or newer communities, or ask why I wasn't looking into them. Or I would be scared into worry about being wary of the really "weird" communities that embraced a lot of the New Age stuff. People would tell me horror stories and I would have nightmares about being in a community and then learning about all the things that went on in the basement!!!

But overall the discernment process is very beautiful and can be one of the most spiritually fruitful times in your life. It's also the time when we need the most help. You can never do something like this alone!!!

I think the very hardest part was discovering what I wanted and what God wanted for me in a community, especially with regards to the charism. Going onto the communities' websites and reading about their charism and founder/foundress really helped me to understand the overall community better. I remember when I first learned about my communities foundress and her particular devotions, I was blown away with how similar we were. All of the quotes I could find from her really "clicked" with me. I loved everything about her. I'm not saying that this would happen to everybody, but it seems like a good place to start. JPII in his Vita Consecrata said how vital it is to a community that they stand by the original charism of the founder. That all being said, it's good to really know who God created you as, to understand where you "fit". The Franciscans and Dominicans are both very similar orders, who do very similar things. But their founders and natural charisms are very different. The question is: are you more Dominican or Franciscan? (see what I'm getting at?) And the key is to be honest with yourself. ( I wanted to be a Dominican because I loved them so much but I am a hardcore Franciscan and that's how I was created!! )

As for prejudices between different communities, what kind do you mean? Are they serious regarding loyalty to the Church? Or more opinionated ones like habits and Rule and such? I know that from one community and a couple of friends I got the feeling of prejudice towards the community I was discerning with because they wore a modified habit. I can understand their opinion, but this community was no less loyal to the Church than the communities I knew in full habit. Sometimes people can just be really petty about some things. But other times it can be really helpful.

The most important thing, and you'll hear it all the time, is PRAYER!!!
It is extremely important when discerning a vocation, especially communities, that you intently listen to the will of God and desire to follow His perfect plan. He would never take you somewhere that would endanger your soul. Be assured of my prayers for all who are discerning; I've been there and I know how tough it can be, even though I consider myself very lucky!!

May Our Lord and Our Lady carefully guide you in your steps, and all the saints and angels offer their support!!

[laetitia crucis]

Good thread idea, MV!

To answer your question, "How do you find inner peace after hearing prejudices about different communities?"...

When I ponder this, I pretty much come to a similar conclusion as JTheresa's post.

The thing is (at least the way I see it), discernment is not about "what everyone else is called to", but what [b]I as an individual[/b] am called to. God calls each person individually to a specific charism and a specific community. And for me, I suppose the difficult part in discernment has been finding [i]where[/i] exactly.

I've always wished discernment were easier for me... that I could [i]know[/i] the first and only community I ever saw, ever met, ever visited, was "the One", but I trust God knows what's He's doing and how He wants to form me. Apparently I lack a good deal of patience. Hahaha!

Also, I remember once reading a quote from Mother Teresa that said something along the lines of: "If you have a vocation to the religious life, God has a community for you."

So, if my vocation to the religious life is indeed true, then somehow and somewhere God is calling me to a specific community -- regardless of others' experiences with that Order/community. Perhaps God simply was not calling that person there and had to use various means to get His point across -- even hurtful maybe? At least in my experience, I think that's what happened. I was too stubborn and hard-headed , and yes, probably even a bit intoxicated by the "magic dust" of Religious Life , so to say, that I couldn't see God really wasn't calling me there. I was [i]so[/i] convinced in my initial discernment decision... God had to do something drastic.

I can only hope that I've "learned my lesson" and continue learning. Discernment in certainly not a "one-stop shop", so to say, but an on-going process, even after one has entered "the One". And I hope to frequently remind myself, "[i]Grace builds upon nature.[/i]" -- not the other way around! You can't force the grace of a vocation to a charism/community that's not "yours". I learned the hard way.

[Mary Veronica]

[quote name='nunsense' date='18 May 2010 - 12:00 AM' timestamp='1274155212' post='2112523']
The safest way to know the truth about a community is to visit it oneself, and if possible, to do a live-in with it. Those who post negatives might have had a negative experience themself with that community, although for another person it might be a positive experience. We are human, and our hurts and disappointments color our views, so while one should not completely accept what anyone says about a particular community, it could also serve as a warning flag to potential discerners if there are issues that make a community appear unhealthy in any way.

I enjoy hearing what experiences other have had, but I would never make my decision based on that alone. I might use some of the information however to frame my questions to the community to make sure that any concerns are addressed. So why not just take what others have to say as a personal reflection, and then do your own research into whatever community interests you?

Discernment of a religious vocation is a great grace, but that doesn't mean that there aren't some practical issues that need to be addressed when considering a community.
[/quote]


A personal reflection is a great idea! it seems like a calling to more interior conversations with Our Lord, who does make the burdens light and the yoke easy. Yeah, practical issues are necessary, I don't want to go discerning without them, and certainly I don't want to enter some place where they only speak praises of it. I feel better, bless the Lord. Thanks!

[Mary Veronica]

[quote name='JTheresa' date='18 May 2010 - 12:12 AM' timestamp='1274155943' post='2112546']
I love your idea!!

I know I had a really hard time discerning because I didn't know which websites had the kind of communities I was looking for. Then I would ask my friends and relatives and they would always recommend the really popular or newer communities, or ask why I wasn't looking into them. Or I would be scared into worry about being wary of the really "weird" communities that embraced a lot of the New Age stuff. People would tell me horror stories and I would have nightmares about being in a community and then learning about all the things that went on in the basement!!!

But overall the discernment process is very beautiful and can be one of the most spiritually fruitful times in your life. It's also the time when we need the most help. You can never do something like this alone!!!

I think the very hardest part was discovering what I wanted and what God wanted for me in a community, especially with regards to the charism. Going onto the communities' websites and reading about their charism and founder/foundress really helped me to understand the overall community better. I remember when I first learned about my communities foundress and her particular devotions, I was blown away with how similar we were. All of the quotes I could find from her really "clicked" with me. I loved everything about her. I'm not saying that this would happen to everybody, but it seems like a good place to start. JPII in his Vita Consecrata said how vital it is to a community that they stand by the original charism of the founder. That all being said, it's good to really know who God created you as, to understand where you "fit". The Franciscans and Dominicans are both very similar orders, who do very similar things. But their founders and natural charisms are very different. The question is: are you more Dominican or Franciscan? (see what I'm getting at?) And the key is to be honest with yourself. ( I wanted to be a Dominican because I loved them so much but I am a hardcore Franciscan and that's how I was created!! )

As for prejudices between different communities, what kind do you mean? Are they serious regarding loyalty to the Church? Or more opinionated ones like habits and Rule and such? I know that from one community and a couple of friends I got the feeling of prejudice towards the community I was discerning with because they wore a modified habit. I can understand their opinion, but this community was no less loyal to the Church than the communities I knew in full habit. Sometimes people can just be really petty about some things. But other times it can be really helpful.

The most important thing, and you'll hear it all the time, is PRAYER!!!
It is extremely important when discerning a vocation, especially communities, that you intently listen to the will of God and desire to follow His perfect plan. He would never take you somewhere that would endanger your soul. Be assured of my prayers for all who are discerning; I've been there and I know how tough it can be, even though I consider myself very lucky!!

May Our Lord and Our Lady carefully guide you in your steps, and all the saints and angels offer their support!!
[/quote]

[b][size="3"][color="#ff00ff"]LOL[/color][/size][/b], you're taking me back to that crazy phase! yes, people would ask me similar things like, "why not enter a flourishing community?" and because I know it'll sound dumb to say "I don't want to" or "YOU enter a flourishing community!" I just give them this pensive look that, to them, means I don't know what I'm doing

I mean are there actually people out there who "hop on the band wagon?" if there is, well...what happens when the band wagon stops running .......hop on another one? Well, if I were going to commit myself to a community/foundation, I want to make sure I desire to know my sisters authentically enough that I can really stand up for them or uplift them when situations don't go well. So it matters not so much what my community stands for ("a really popular bandwagon") but rather what I do standing in that community through any situation.

I find it unpleasant if I enter a community for it's rule or ideal traditions or popularity or even because the superior is so lovable and understanding. I mean, Jesus came down from Heaven to be with us, if anything mankind is the most pathetic, unorganized, disobedient kind of "establishment" in all of creation. But He came to love us out of our imperfections and out of our pride that we're the best things that ever happened. He loved us so TRULY and Authentically that we couldn't help but be humble and strive for "perfection." That's the kind of calling I've been waiting to hear but haven't yet! one that will make me die lovingly IN not FOR, but IN the community/vocation/foundation/rule I'm called to. one that will make me suffer with so much love of God, that even if the entire foundation was to be persecuted and led to excommunication, I can be one to ask forgiveness from God for others, whether I die excommunicated with them. To the Pharisees, Our Lord was Blasphemy itself with all of it's unspoken attributes! All of Jerusalem, God's own annointed people, condemned the Son.... of God. so in other words, If it's not the Honorable and Prevailing Institution with all it's faithful Members that Glorifies GOD, then in must be the one person truly and distinctly called to Glorify Him...Jesus.

so that's what I'm praying for that my discernment will lead me to. I desire a true calling, one that will make me die against all odds. even if Heaven and Earth are waging war (Churches against Churches, Believers against Non Believers, etc), I neither want to fight for Heaven or for Earth, I want to live and suffer and die with Jesus, Who is Love, Mercy, and Goodness. That even if everything beautiful in all of God's Creation passes away, Heaven and Earth pass away, Jesus will always be the faithful, true, merciful and loving son of God. that's what we're all called to be...true children of God; Children who Forgive, who Love, and Hope for God's True Kingdom. But the grace to answer that calling, with all our being, comes only from Him. [size="5"][b]

We need to encourage and support each other to persevere in asking for it.

[size="2"][color="#ff00ff"]so thank you dear sister in Christ for your encouragement, you definitely have mine![/color][/size]
[/b][/size]

Edited May 19, 2010 by Mary Veronica

[JTheresa]

^^^

*sniff* I'm in utter shock. That was soooo beautiful!!!!
Come to think of it, my community (I mean the one that I'm entering) makes me feel exActly as you described; I had just never thought of it before.
Thank you again for such beautiful words!!! I'm beginning to feel a little jealous. My dear sister, what beautiful poetry you must write!!

[Mary Veronica]

[quote name='laetitia crucis' date='18 May 2010 - 07:18 AM' timestamp='1274181499' post='2112680']
Good thread idea, MV!

To answer your question, "How do you find inner peace after hearing prejudices about different communities?"...

When I ponder this, I pretty much come to a similar conclusion as JTheresa's post.

The thing is (at least the way I see it), discernment is not about "what everyone else is called to", but what [b]I as an individual[/b] am called to. God calls each person individually to a specific charism and a specific community. And for me, I suppose the difficult part in discernment has been finding [i]where[/i] exactly.

I've always wished discernment were easier for me... that I could [i]know[/i] the first and only community I ever saw, ever met, ever visited, was "the One", but I trust God knows what's He's doing and how He wants to form me. Apparently I lack a good deal of patience. Hahaha!

Also, I remember once reading a quote from Mother Teresa that said something along the lines of: "If you have a vocation to the religious life, God has a community for you."

So, if my vocation to the religious life is indeed true, then somehow and somewhere God is calling me to a specific community -- regardless of others' experiences with that Order/community. Perhaps God simply was not calling that person there and had to use various means to get His point across -- even hurtful maybe? At least in my experience, I think that's what happened. I was too stubborn and hard-headed , and yes, probably even a bit intoxicated by the "magic dust" of Religious Life , so to say, that I couldn't see God really wasn't calling me there. I was [i]so[/i] convinced in my initial discernment decision... God had to do something drastic.

I can only hope that I've "learned my lesson" and continue learning. Discernment in certainly not a "one-stop shop", so to say, but an on-going process, even after one has entered "the One". And I hope to frequently remind myself, "[i]Grace builds upon nature.[/i]" -- not the other way around! You can't force the grace of a vocation to a charism/community that's not "yours". I learned the hard way.
[/quote]




I always wondered how to describe that awesome high-spirited feeling that comes and goes whenever I hear about religious life, and that's exactly it: MAGIC DUST!


My dear Brother in Christ!!! you've pointed out something very MARVELOUS about discernment to me. It's like, in the end, we'll all feel really really reallly stupid and laugh at ourselves because [b][color="#0000ff"]God is SOOO GOOD[/color][/b]!

well, now that I know , I want to share my joy with the world that...... GOD HAS A COMMUNITY FOR ME!!!!............SOMEWHERE!!!....Where?!.....I DON'T KNOW!!.... BUT WHO CARES?! BECAUSE MOTHER TERESA is SOOO COOL AND I LOVE HER!

Edited May 19, 2010 by Mary Veronica

[JTheresa]

[quote name='Mary Veronica' date='19 May 2010 - 06:36 PM' timestamp='1274308586' post='2113818']
well, now that I know , I want to share my joy with the world that...... GOD HAS A COMMUNITY FOR ME!!!!............SOMEWHERE!!!....Where?!.....I DON'T KNOW!!.... BUT WHO CARES?! BECAUSE MOTHER TERESA is SOOO COOL AND I LOVE HER!
[/quote]

I KNOW!!!!!!! Her quotes helped me soooo much in my discernment!!!! The name Theresa is DEFINATELY at the top of my list.
I'm so happy to see your joy!!!! If only everyone was so excited about having a vocation to religious life!!!!

[Mary Veronica]

[quote name='JTheresa' date='19 May 2010 - 06:32 PM' timestamp='1274308363' post='2113816']
^^^

*sniff* I'm in utter shock. That was soooo beautiful!!!!
Come to think of it, my community (I mean the one that I'm entering) makes me feel exActly as you described; I had just never thought of it before.
Thank you again for such beautiful words!!! I'm beginning to feel a little jealous. My dear sister, what beautiful poetry you must write!!
[/quote]


It was your charity that drew it out of me! I'm rather embarrassed, because I know I'm indebted to many people who have influenced me with their simple kindness towards me. Like a Mother who simply shows gentleness and kindness to her children, they can't help but sing the most beautiful praises to God (-st. Louis de Montfort). so I ought to thank you too! May our kindness for each other, please our Lady <3

[alrichey53091]

[quote name='JTheresa' date='18 May 2010 - 12:12 AM' timestamp='1274155943' post='2112546']
I love your idea!!

I know I had a really hard time discerning because I didn't know which websites had the kind of communities I was looking for. Then I would ask my friends and relatives and they would always recommend the really popular or newer communities, or ask why I wasn't looking into them. Or I would be scared into worry about being wary of the really "weird" communities that embraced a lot of the New Age stuff. People would tell me horror stories and I would have nightmares about being in a community and then learning about all the things that went on in the basement!!!

But overall the discernment process is very beautiful and can be one of the most spiritually fruitful times in your life. It's also the time when we need the most help. You can never do something like this alone!!!

I think the very hardest part was discovering what I wanted and what God wanted for me in a community, especially with regards to the charism. Going onto the communities' websites and reading about their charism and founder/foundress really helped me to understand the overall community better. I remember when I first learned about my communities foundress and her particular devotions, I was blown away with how similar we were. All of the quotes I could find from her really "clicked" with me. I loved everything about her. I'm not saying that this would happen to everybody, but it seems like a good place to start. JPII in his Vita Consecrata said how vital it is to a community that they stand by the original charism of the founder. That all being said, it's good to really know who God created you as, to understand where you "fit". The Franciscans and Dominicans are both very similar orders, who do very similar things. But their founders and natural charisms are very different. The question is: are you more Dominican or Franciscan? (see what I'm getting at?) And the key is to be honest with yourself. ( I wanted to be a Dominican because I loved them so much but I am a hardcore Franciscan and that's how I was created!! )

As for prejudices between different communities, what kind do you mean? Are they serious regarding loyalty to the Church? Or more opinionated ones like habits and Rule and such? I know that from one community and a couple of friends I got the feeling of prejudice towards the community I was discerning with because they wore a modified habit. I can understand their opinion, but this community was no less loyal to the Church than the communities I knew in full habit. Sometimes people can just be really petty about some things. But other times it can be really helpful.

The most important thing, and you'll hear it all the time, is PRAYER!!!
It is extremely important when discerning a vocation, especially communities, that you intently listen to the will of God and desire to follow His perfect plan. He would never take you somewhere that would endanger your soul. Be assured of my prayers for all who are discerning; I've been there and I know how tough it can be, even though I consider myself very lucky!!

May Our Lord and Our Lady carefully guide you in your steps, and all the saints and angels offer their support!!
[/quote]


very beautifully put!

I have also got some feeling of prejudice from some people with the modified habit and all. I personally would like to see change. I had to go where God was calling and I knew if I didn't I would not feel at peace with myself. and besides I would def. not want to be at my last judgement and God say to me "Alexa, why did you not do my will?"

[Mary Veronica]

Quotes for discerning, if anyone else knows more, please add <3
[b][size="3"][color="#0000ff"]
"God loves us first, he makes us see and experience his love, and from God's loving us 'first,' love can also arise as a response within us."
(Pope Benedict XVI)[/color][/size][/b]

"Let no one who is unwilling be driven to the pursuit of this kind of consecrated life; but, if one wishes it, let there be no one who will dissuade him, much less prevent him from undertaking it." (Pope Pius XII)

[i]"If the angels were capable of envy, they would envy us for two things: one is the receiving of Holy Communion, and the other is suffering." (St. Faustina)

[/i]"O life so dull and monotonous, how many treasures you contain! When I look at everything with the eyes of faith, no two hours are alike, and the dullness and monotony disappear. The grace which is given me in this hour will not be repeated in the next. It may be given me again,but it will not be the same grace. Time goes on, never to return again.Whatever is enclosed in it will never change; it seals with a seal for eternity...My life is not drab or monotonous, but it is varied like a garden of fragrant flowers, so that I don't know which flower to pick first, the lily of suffering or the rose of love of neighbor or the violet of humility." - [i]Saint Faustina, diary, p295

[/i][i]I understood that the Church has a heart, that this heart was burning with love, and that it is love alone which gives life to its members; that if this love ever became extinct, the Apostles would no longer preach the Gospel, and the Martyrs would refuse to shed their blood. I understood that love comprised all vocations, that love was everything, that it embraced all times and places...in a word, that it was eternal! Then, in the excess of my delirious joy, I cried out; O Jesus my love...my vocation, at last I have found it...my vocation is love![/i]" [i]- Saint Therese of Lisieux

The world needs a mother, and when it finds one it rests at her feet. ([/i]"[i]Women of Mystery, Women of Hope[/i]")
[i]

[media][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL0gTh9ECLQ&feature=fvw"]http://www.youtube.c...CLQ&feature=fvw[/url][/media]
[/i][i]
[/i]

Edited May 23, 2010 by Mary Veronica

[AccountDeleted]

[size="4"][i]God withholds Himself from no one who perseveres. [/i][/size]

St Teresa of Avila

[OnlySunshine]

We cultivate a very small field for Christ, but we love it, knowing that God does not require great achievements but a heart that holds back nothing for self.----St. Rose Philippine Duchesne

Whatever did not fit in with my plan did lie within the plan of God. I have an ever deeper and firmer belief that nothing is merely an accident when seen in the light of God, that my whole life down to the smallest details has been marked out for me in the plan of Divine Providence and has a completely coherent meaning in God's all-seeing eyes. And so I am beginning to rejoice in the light of glory wherein this meaning will be unveiled to me.--St. Edith Stein

The Christian life is a continuation and completion of the life of Christ in us. We should be so many Christs here on earth, continuing His life and His works, laboring and suffering in a holy and divine manner in the spirit of Jesus.--St. John Eudes

I find myself so bound to the divine will that neither death nor life is important: I want to live as He wishes and I want to serve Him as He likes, and nothing more.-- St. Rose Venerini

[Mary Veronica]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' date='22 May 2010 - 11:38 PM' timestamp='1274585918' post='2115745']

I find myself so bound to the divine will that neither death nor life is important: I want to live as He wishes and I want to serve Him as He likes, and nothing more.-- St. Rose Venerini
[/quote]

WOW, Glory to GOD!...


That's it, let's just all give up our possessions NOW and leave everything.