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vee
[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='07 July 2010 - 11:48 PM' timestamp='1278564495' post='2139240']



As for the requirements above for various orders, tuberculosis is treatable now, and relatively rare in the U.S. anyway, so the St. Therese "wannabes" will have to emulate her in other ways. And, I don't see why the Franciscans should be the only ones who get to dance if they want.

[/quote]

Other people can sing, dance, and even play the tambourine but in the Carmelites case their expressions must not exceed that of the following example!

[img]http://catholickermit.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/st-teresa-of-avila-icon.jpeg[/img]



:P


It wasn't just Therese who died of tb I think Teresa of the Andes did, and Elizabeth of the Trinity as well. :scratchhead:

edited for typo Edited by vee8

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OnlySunshine
[quote name='vee8' date='09 July 2010 - 08:45 AM' timestamp='1278679506' post='2139822']

It wasn't just Therese who died of tb I think Teresa of the Andes did, and Elizabeth of the Trinity as well. :scratchhead:
[/quote]

St. Teresa of the Andes actually died of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhus"]typhus[/url].

And Bl. Elizabeth of the Trinity had complications from [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addison%27s_disease"]Addison's Disease[/url]--a very painful illness to which there was no cure in the early 20th century. As you can see in her later pictures before she passed, she lost so much weight.

Before:
[img]http://www.stl-ocds.org/podcast/images/elizabeth2.jpg[/img]

After:

[img]http://feastofsaints.com/eliztrinity1.jpg[/img]

:ohno: Edited by MaterMisericordiae

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Mary Veronica
[quote name='vee8' date='09 July 2010 - 10:15 AM' timestamp='1278679506' post='2139822']
Other people can sing, dance, and even play the tamborine, but in the Carmelites case their expressions must not exceed that of the following example!

[img]http://catholickermit.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/st-teresa-of-avila-icon.jpeg[/img]



[/quote]


[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif[/img] OH, THANKS VEE8! That's real fun! (pout) I can't even hold my laugh for a split second, how are we suppose to hold that expression?!

UGH, but if it's in the constitutions...FINE [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif[/img] ....

now....

where's my tambourine? [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif[/img]

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vee
[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' date='09 July 2010 - 07:51 AM' timestamp='1278679873' post='2139823']
St. Teresa of the Andes actually died of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhus"]typhus[/url].

And Bl. Elizabeth of the Trinity had complications from [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addison%27s_disease"]Addison's Disease[/url]--a very painful illness to which there was no cure in the early 20th century. As you can see in her later pictures before she passed, she lost so much weight.

[/quote]

Ooops ok I was wrong :doh: Thanks MM!


[quote name='Mary Veronica' date='09 July 2010 - 08:21 AM' timestamp='1278681708' post='2139831']
[img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif[/img] OH, THANKS VEE8! That's real fun! (pout) I can't even hold my laugh for a split second, how are we suppose to hold that expression?!

UGH, but if it's in the constitutions...FINE [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif[/img] ....

now....

where's my tambourine? [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif[/img]
[/quote]

Yeah I know that picture, or any of St Teresa looking glum, amuses me :hehe:

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OnlySunshine
[quote name='vee8' date='09 July 2010 - 10:00 AM' timestamp='1278684010' post='2139846']
Ooops ok I was wrong :doh: Thanks MM! [/quote]

That's ok. It's funny that I know so much about the Carmelite saints when I'm not discerning Carmel. :shock:



[quote]
Yeah I know that picture, or any of St Teresa looking glum, amuses me :hehe:
[/quote]

LOL![i]

May God deliver us from gloomy faced saints![/i]

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vee
[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' date='09 July 2010 - 09:14 AM' timestamp='1278684877' post='2139850']
That's ok. It's funny that I know so much about the Carmelite saints when I'm not discerning Carmel. :shock:

[/quote]

I dunno maybe it has more to do with your interest in medicine? Besiedes the saints belong to everyone anyway which is why in the PPC chapel we will have statues, pictures, and stained glass windows of all our favorite saints. :thumbsup:


[quote]LOL![i]

May God deliver us from gloomy faced saints![/i][/quote]

Ya I always remember that quote and think haha Teresa you look gloomy!

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JTheresa
[quote name='krissylou' date='09 July 2010 - 08:35 AM' timestamp='1278678957' post='2139817']
I like communities that use their baptismal names. Is it okay if I do that?
[/quote]

Certainly! I really like it when sisters happen to have their baptismal names as their religious names as well. But, since I don't know of any "St. Jessica" and I really, really, love the name Lucy (and I'm not for certain that I'll get it when I'm in my community) I'd like to make this my total religious life dream. But since it is pretend, you can pretty much do what you want with your name!! I trust that everyone is good intentioned and we don't have any bad lemons among us. ;)

That being said, would anyone care to join me for a brisk walk on this beautiful morning?

[img]http://images.gadmin.ch/n1157/details/TitlisBergseeqgrcpWEB.jpg[/img]

You'll have to excuse me if I burst into song.
As a matter of fact, wouldn't it be nice if we choir practice outside today?

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OnlySunshine
[quote name='vee8' date='09 July 2010 - 10:38 AM' timestamp='1278686303' post='2139862']
I dunno maybe it has more to do with your interest in medicine? Besiedes the saints belong to everyone anyway which is why in the PPC chapel we will have statues, pictures, and stained glass windows of all our favorite saints. :thumbsup:
[/quote]

Ya, maybe! :rolling:

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Mary Veronica
[quote name='JTheresa' date='09 July 2010 - 12:10 PM' timestamp='1278686416' post='2139864']
Certainly! I really like it when sisters happen to have their baptismal names as their religious names as well. But, since I don't know of any "St. Jessica" and I really, really, love the name Lucy (and I'm not for certain that I'll get it when I'm in my community) I'd like to make this my total religious life dream. But since it is pretend, you can pretty much do what you want with your name!! I trust that everyone is good intentioned and we don't have any bad lemons among us. ;)

That being said, would anyone care to join me for a brisk walk on this beautiful morning?


You'll have to excuse me if I burst into song.
As a matter of fact, wouldn't it be nice if we choir practice outside today?
[/quote]

I would like to be a good lemon
Goodness I wish every morning looked like that!
:unsure: burst into song like Maria on the Sound of Music? or like Sister Act:

:banana:

[media][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DmZr-YZXqc&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.c...feature=related[/url][/media] Edited by Mary Veronica

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IgnatiusofLoyola
[quote name='vee8' date='09 July 2010 - 09:38 AM' timestamp='1278686303' post='2139862']
I dunno maybe it has more to do with your interest in medicine? Besiedes the saints belong to everyone anyway which is why in the PPC chapel we will have statues, pictures, and stained glass windows of all our favorite saints. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif[/img]
[/quote]

I thoroughly agree. When I posted earlier that I hoped for a chapel that would be beautiful architecturally, even if it doesn't have a lot of gold leaf paintings on the ceiling etc. (besides, it already has a gorgeous Viking boat hanging from the ceiling in honor of the traditions of Hilde's country!), I didn't mean at all that our chapel wouldn't have lovely stained glass windows and other beautiful things. I really meant two things. First, that I think it would be wonderful to have a chapel (and a monastery) that blended in and reflected the beauty of their setting. And, second, I mostly wanted to avoid being ostentatious. That is what I mean when I say "simple"--not a lack of ornamentation or beautiful things. I definitely want a chapel that impresses me with its beauty every time I see it, as much as it did when I saw it the first time.

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IgnatiusofLoyola
[quote name='krissylou' date='09 July 2010 - 07:35 AM' timestamp='1278678957' post='2139817']

I like communities that use their baptismal names. Is it okay if I do that?
[/quote]

That seems fine to me, if some Sisters wanted to use their baptismal names. I'm not aware of any rule against it.

All three of my names (yes, even my last name) are saint's names (although I don't think my parents planned it that way), but I think I would like a new name--even if it is Sister Polycarp! (Actually, that name is growing on me for some reason.)

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vee
[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='09 July 2010 - 02:43 PM' timestamp='1278704634' post='2140030']
I thoroughly agree. When I posted earlier that I hoped for a chapel that would be beautiful architecturally, even if it doesn't have a lot of gold leaf paintings on the ceiling etc. (besides, it already has a gorgeous Viking boat hanging from the ceiling in honor of the traditions of Hilde's country!), I didn't mean at all that our chapel wouldn't have lovely stained glass windows and other beautiful things. I really meant two things. First, that I think it would be wonderful to have a chapel (and a monastery) that blended in and reflected the beauty of their setting. And, second, I mostly wanted to avoid being ostentatious. That is what I mean when I say "simple"--not a lack of ornamentation or beautiful things. I definitely want a chapel that impresses me with its beauty every time I see it, as much as it did when I saw it the first time.
[/quote]

Sounds good :thumbsup: while on the chapel decorating theme though I have one request for the Dominicans. First I love you and if God wants me to I'd happily be one of you, I also love your saints especially Thomas Aquinas. That said when you guys are contributing to the chapel decorations please don't use this pic

[img]http://www.revjbs.com.br/website/images/stories/saint_thomas_aquinas1.jpg[/img]

k thx :blowkiss:

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vee
[quote name='JTheresa' date='09 July 2010 - 09:40 AM' timestamp='1278686416' post='2139864']
Certainly! I really like it when sisters happen to have their baptismal names as their religious names as well. But, since I don't know of any "St. Jessica" and I really, really, love the name Lucy (and I'm not for certain that I'll get it when I'm in my community) I'd like to make this my total religious life dream. But since it is pretend, you can pretty much do what you want with your name!! I trust that everyone is good intentioned and we don't have any bad lemons among us. ;)

That being said, would anyone care to join me for a brisk walk on this beautiful morning?

[img]http://images.gadmin.ch/n1157/details/TitlisBergseeqgrcpWEB.jpg[/img]

You'll have to excuse me if I burst into song.
As a matter of fact, wouldn't it be nice if we choir practice outside today?
[/quote]

My answer can be summed up in the following smiley :woot:

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IgnatiusofLoyola
I was going to include quotes in this note, but there were so many. All of you made me feel so welcome! Bless you! It was exactly what I needed, because in so many parts of my life I feel "left out" because I physically can't do all the things most people do. I truly didn't know that I meant that much to some of you on VS. Thank-you.

I looked up Oblates, and the more I read, the more I realized it wasn't a bad idea. (Although my first response didn't seem that way, I'm glad you brought it up, Krissylou.) Especially, because in some orders Oblates are treated in most respects like the other members of the Order, just with different vows, and sometimes they even wear a habit (although it may be somewhat different than the habits of the fully professed members of the Community.) I wanted so much to wear a habit and A CAPE! And, be in the choir!

One thing that's been in the back of my mind is feeling guilty, because there will be some things I just can't do because of my physical limitations. So, I feel like I would be asking for "special favors" if I needed a mattress with a special pad on it or if I missed early morning prayers (although I would do my best to get to Mass) because I couldn't force my body to get up early without "paying for it" later in the day by being in pain (or falling asleep at inconvenient times). It seems as if an Oblate generally joins in as many of the community activities as possible or appropriate. And, although I kid about it, in RL I AM very sensitive to noise, even some small noises, so sometimes I would need a place to go where it was very quiet, because I don't want to keep everyone else from loud singing, or sobbing buckets of tears, or playing sports, just because I'm sensitive to noise. (Ear plugs help, but not completely.) I might even need my own bathroom attached to my cell, for getting up in the night. That sounds very decadent and spoiled in a monastery cell--but I assume hermitages usually have their own bathrooms (although maybe they don't).

But, we don't need to decide right now exactly the status of members of the Community who aren't Catholic, or who are married, etc. Actually, if we get into this in detail, there are LOTS of things like that to talk about. But, let's start with the most fun things--the monastery and main chapel, the monastery grounds, as well as other buildings, chapels, etc. And, of course, habits!

To JTeresa--I am a true "child" when it comes to knowing theology, and the writings and lives of learned and saintly men and women etc. (Although, because of the years of my callow youth when I tried to be an Evangelical Protestant--and failed miserably--at least at that time, my biblical knowledge was pretty good.)

Because there is SO much to know, most librarians have a knowledge specialty or two, but generally what librarians are best at is finding information, knowing the best people resources to go to, and the physical workings of storing and finding books and other sources of information, including sources in other media. I've never worked in a religious library, but if it is like my past experiences, it wouldn't take long before I learned first, the best books for various needs and interests, along with the best people to go to for particular questions. Then, over time, I would become much more familiar with the content of the books. But, I doubt that I would ever be among the most knowledgeable person in the community on various saints, etc (although, in time, I'd know the best places to find the information).

Here in VS, there are a number of posters who HAVE done a lot of spiritual reading as part of their discernment, and if you want ideas, I know they'd have so many good suggestions that you could spend every minute before you enter reading.

Again, thank-you to all of your for your caring posts. You made my week!

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vee
[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='09 July 2010 - 02:49 PM' timestamp='1278704941' post='2140033']
but I think I would like a new name--even if it is Sister Polycarp! (Actually, that name is growing on me for some reason.)
[/quote]

I wouldn't mind being Sister Mary Christmas because, as I wrote in some obscure thread before, when I was a teen I got to play Mary at the church nativity play. It was really special then and even more so now thinking back. I got to wear a blue veil and I remember thinking how I never wanted to take it off! :sweat: Now, a few years and a ton of sins later, I can't even begin to believe Mary might permit me to dress like her again ... for the rest of my life. I don't mind if the veil isn't blue this time either! Black is very ok :D

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krissylou
[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='09 July 2010 - 05:01 PM' timestamp='1278709275' post='2140088']

One thing that's been in the back of my mind is feeling guilty, because there will be some things I just can't do because of my physical limitations. [/quote]

Oh! Oh! Oh!

You just added a new charism!

Wasn't this one of the founding ideas behind the Visitation Nuns? We were missing that!

L'Arche isn't formally an order (although close, and there certainly were times earlier in church history where in order to start a religious community you just DID IT, without jumping through hoops of private association and public association and congregation of diocesean right or pontifical right or what not [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif[/img] ) -- in that context well L'Arche would look much like a "religious community" to me -- and you're not that extremely disabled, but L'Arche is so incredibly beautiful.

Actually, one of my friends is a minister and the mother of a wonderful little girl who also has Down's Syndrome and has some just beautiful thoughts about how the Church NEEDS people with disabilities. Not that disabilities necessarily make people exceptionally holy or whatnot, but physical weakness does keep us from illusions of self-sufficiency (Paul's "thorn in the flesh"). Incorporating people with disabilities into our community is so important, precisely BECAUSE they can't do everything, they are a constant reminder that NONE of us can do everything and our worth is not in what we do but in who we are, as God's beloved creations, created in God's image and redeemed by Christ's life, death, and resurrection.

This imaginary community needs you more than we know!

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IgnatiusofLoyola
[quote name='vee8' date='09 July 2010 - 04:33 PM' timestamp='1278711211' post='2140106']
I wouldn't mind being Sister Mary Christmas because, as I wrote in some obscure thread before, when I was a teen I got to play Mary at the church nativity play. It was really special then and even more so now thinking back. I got to wear a blue veil and I remember thinking how I never wanted to take it off! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/sweat.gif[/img] Now, a few years and a ton of sins later, I can't even begin to believe Mary might permit me to dress like her again ... for the rest of my life. I don't mind if the veil isn't blue this time either! Black is very ok [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/lol_grin.gif[/img]
[/quote]

One of my endless questions: Do we know that Mary wore a blue veil? Okay, I know I'm on controversial ground, and the issue of tradition versus writings in the Bible, and writings from others who lived in that time. I'm not questioning the tradition of Mary wearing a blue veil--I just don't know where it came from. I have NO idea what the normal dress was for young married women in that place and time.

That said, black veils have other lovely meanings, such as being symbolic of being dead to worldly things. Other Orders choose white for purity. But, I can understand the feeling of feeling as if you are not worthy to dress like Mary. That's a humility I have a lot of respect for. On the other hand, I can understand Orders that wear blue veils to show their love and respect for Mary, and as a constant reminder to strive to be like Mary.

I'd forgotten, but I also played Mary (wearing a blue veil) in the Christmas pageant one year. I loved that veil. Maybe that's where I got my love of veils. As a little girl, I used to wear a petticoat on my head as a veil, but it alternated between being a veil for a bride or wearing a veil like a nun. I was confused, even as a child! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img] (And, at that time, I didn't know that nuns/Sisters were considered "brides of Christ" or know that in some Orders, postulants wear bridal gowns in their clothing ceremony.) Edited by IgnatiusofLoyola

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krissylou
[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='09 July 2010 - 05:55 PM' timestamp='1278712543' post='2140138']
One of my endless questions: Do we know that Mary wore a blue veil? Okay, I know I'm on controversial ground, and the question of tradition versus writings in the Bible, and writings from others who lived in that time. I'm not questioning the tradition of Mary wearing a blue veil--I just don't know where it came from. I have NO idea what the normal dress was for young married women in that place and time.

That said, black veils have other lovely meanings, such as being symbolic of being dead to worldly things. Other Orders choose white for purity. But, I can understand the feeling of feeling as if you are not worthy to dress like Mary. That's a humility I have a lot of respect for. On the other hand, I can understand Orders that wear blue veils to show their love and respect for Mary, and as a constant reminder to strive to be like Mary.

I'd forgotten, but I also played Mary (wearing a blue veil) in the Christmas pageant one year. I loved that veil. Maybe that's where I got my love of veils. As a little girl, I used to wear a petticoat on my head as a veil, but it alternated between being a veil for a bride or wearing a veil like a nun. I was confused, even as a child! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif[/img] (And, at that time, I didn't know that nuns/Sisters were considered "brides of Christ" or know that in some Orders, postulants wear bridal gowns in their clothing ceremony.)
[/quote]

I think that dyed cloth, of any color, would have been way too expensive for a family that offered pigeons as sacrifice to redeem their first-born son.

There's certainly nothing about blue veils in the Bible, and I don't think there's anything about blue veils in any other authoritative source.

It's a typical artist's rendering, and that's fine, but not historically accurate for first century Palestine.

None of which means that using blue to show Marian devotion is in any way bad. That is the connotation that it's taken on over time. But I don't think we have any reason to think that if we were walking around the streets of Nazareth in 15 AD we would have run into Miriam wearing a blue veil.

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laetitia crucis
[quote name='vee8' date='09 July 2010 - 04:49 PM' timestamp='1278708565' post='2140077']
Sounds good :thumbsup: while on the chapel decorating theme though I have one request for the Dominicans. First I love you and if God wants me to I'd happily be one of you, I also love your saints especially Thomas Aquinas. That said when you guys are contributing to the chapel decorations please don't use this pic

[img]http://www.revjbs.com.br/website/images/stories/saint_thomas_aquinas1.jpg[/img]

k thx :blowkiss:
[/quote]

:rolling:

I concur with your request! (Apparently, he and Teresa must have been friends when it came to serious picture-painting time... :P Hahaha!)

How about this one:

[img]http://dailyoffice.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/thomasaquinas-670.jpg[/img]

Or perhaps this one (which is my favorite, btw):

[img]http://neatnik2009.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/thomas-aquinas.jpg[/img]

Or maybe even this one (which I am also quite fond of):

[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FAzU4lNiQT0/R6MaNjCkfxI/AAAAAAAAD8Q/UxAnuq81LD4/S1600-R/Saint%2BThomas%2BAquinas.jpg[/img]

:love: :love: :love:

Ooooooor, the ever classic Fra Angelico painting:

[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ynN-UTH7fgM/SM1ilMh9zNI/AAAAAAAAAPg/gN8U61Laa1g/s1600/StThomasFraAngelico_2.jpg[/img]
[size="1"]I use this one frequently as my cellphone wallpaper. [/size] ^_^

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laetitia crucis
Oh! Oh!Oh!Oh! :woot:

Might I suggest this one...?

[img]http://www.backtoclassics.com/images/pics/fraangelico/fraangelico_virginandchildwithsaintsdominicandthomasaquinas.jpg[/img]

I just found that one and like it so much I think I'm going to set it as my desktop wallpaper! :cloud9:

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