"brides Of Christ"

[ksterling]

I watched the Oprah clips today as well as the previous show Oprah did on the DSMMEs and it struck me how often she mentioned the Bride imagery - continually coming back to the point that sisters were "married to Jesus" - that the habit was their wedding gown - that they had a marital relationship with Jesus. Frankly, I have never been comfortable with the term "bride of Christ" and I found this kinda creepy. I consider myself to be a person discerning a calling to consecrate her life to God and the service of his people. I don't think of myself as someone who is going to marry Jesus. You make a choice between a secular life with its material rewards and the possibility of a husband for whom you are the most important person in the world and a religious life where you specifically renounce possessions and choose to remain available to whoever might need you. I haven't discussed this issue with my SD as we won't be meeting until after the holiday (I'm traveling a bit for work and he's busy with Christmas commitments) but I am very interested to see what you guys think.

Kat

Edited December 3, 2010 by ksterling

[Orans]

I'm guessing but probably Ophra's insistence on the point is because that's something they can relate to, or makes sense to them.

Even though the spousal spirituality has a long tradition, to me it is only a poor metaphor which falls much too short of the mystery we are called to become and be in Christ, both as religious and as Christians.

If the image is helpful to people, that's fine. If it is not, that's fine as well. It is not the only metaphor, and it is not THE good one.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='ksterling' timestamp='1291348984' post='2190548']
I watched the Oprah clips today as well as the previous show Oprah did on the DSMMEs and it struck me how often she mentioned the Bride imagery - continually coming back to the point that sisters were "married to Jesus" - that the habit was their wedding gown - that they had a marital relationship with Jesus. Frankly, I have never been comfortable with the term "bride of Christ" and I found this kinda creepy. I consider myself to be a person discerning a calling to consecrate her life to God and the service of his people. I don't think of myself as someone who is going to marry Jesus. You make a choice between a secular life with its material rewards and the possibility of a husband for whom you are the most important person in the world and a religious life where you specifically renounce possessions and choose to remain available to whoever might need you. I haven't discussed this issue with my SD as we won't be meeting until after the holiday (I'm traveling a bit for work and he's busy with Christmas commitments) but I am very interested to see what you guys think.

Kat
[/quote]

I know other people are going to post that the imagery of being a "bride of Christ" is very much a part of their faith or their vocation, but I'm not personally attracted to this image. Neither point of view is wrong or right--each women has her own, individual relationship with Christ.

I, too, have trouble with the imagery of being a "bride of Christ" or being "married to Christ." Men enter relgious life and dedicate their lives to God without being "husbands" of Mary. (After all, Mary HAD a husband.) And, these men are no less loyal to Christ or have less of of a vocation.

I think part my own difficulty with the "Bride of Christ" imagery is that I have been married, and already worn the white gown and all that. And, the imagery in the writings of some saints is far too sexual for me. I just don't think of Christ in a sexual way.

As far as I know, some Orders place far less emphasis (perhaps no emphasis) on being a "bride of Christ" compared to others. But, I don't know what those Orders are. I think you have raised a legitimate issue and a legitimate point of view, and I hope some other posters can help point you in the direction of Orders that don't emphasize the "Bride of Christ" imagery. Some individuals within any Order may identify with this imagery, but I know some Orders must emphasize it far less than others.

As an aside to Kat--I think you had already figured out, for very different, but also legitimate reasons, that, although the DSMME's are an Order that is growing and is exactly the right Order for many women, they are probably not the right Order for you. This may be simply be another confirmation of that. Who would ever think of Oprah as being a help in discernment? LOL

Edited December 3, 2010 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[loveletslive]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1291350685' post='2190556']
I, too, have trouble with the imagery of being a "bride of Christ" or being "married to Christ." Men enter relgious life and dedicate their lives to God without being "husbands" of Mary. (After all, Mary HAD a husband.) And, these men are no less loyal to Christ or have less of of a vocation.
[/quote]

i've heard priests say they are married to the Church

[TeresaBenedicta]

I'd like to come back and make a thoughtful response to this, but for now, I think this is a beautiful piece [i]everyone[/i] should read about the bride and bridegroom:

[url="http://www.patheos.com/Resources/Additional-Resources/King-Bridegroom-Self-Immolating-Lover?offset=0&max=1"]King, Bridegroom, Self-Immolating Lover[/url]

[kafka]

[quote name='loveletslive' timestamp='1291353024' post='2190565']
i've heard priests say they are married to the Church
[/quote]
that would be a fitting metaphor for their role in persona Christi.



I think the metaphor of the Church and Christ as Bride and Groom is so profound and beautiful and powerful. Saint Paul wrote about it, the Song of Songs is all about this, Saint John of the Cross loved to use this imagery. Its funny that Saint Theresa lamented that people take something so beautiful and ruin it because of their sinful, secular and fallen view of human love, marriage, procreation, etc.

I'm not saying that this is the case here in this thread or anyone participating in this thread. I just thought it was interesting view coming from a mystic.

Edited December 3, 2010 by kafka

[Chiquitunga]

I think St. John of the Cross would have seen himself as a bride of Christ .. His writings definitely reflect that. Ultimately everyone in the Church, the Bride of Christ, is called to this relationship with Our Lord, though some experience it more here on earth because of their particular vocation.

To some degree I agree that they did keep emphasizing the bridal imagery in the Oprah show maybe too much, or not explaining it better or something .. in a way stressing the strangeness of it .. as MithLuin pointed out in that thread. The theme of the show did seem to be about odd weddings or something .. as the program before it was about someone marrying an inmate who was serving a life term for murder Reflecting on that .. I found that rather insulting to put the Dominican Sisters' professions in the same category as that. But anyway, I thought it was a beautiful show! and am happy she had them on again

But back to being a bride of Christ, I don't have the energy just now to write out how I feel on the matter .. but there are some old threads on PM, discussing this very thing .. so in short, lol, I'm in agreement with everyone here who's in favor of this analogy, or rather reality [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=56480"]"I am not the Bride of Christ, says Religious Sister"[/url] One of them ..


[quote name='passionheart' timestamp='1156642067' post='1051223']
I agree with Gemma on this religious being a Bride of Christ.

When I was looking at religious life in my twenties, my focus was on the ministry that the particular was involved in. In my eyes, the community would take care of my needs, and supply the spirituality and time for prayer. This arrangement left me free to pursue what I like to do, that is serving God. In some ways, even though I consider myself a disciple of Christ and "doing His work", God wasn't the motivation of my vocation discernment.

However, as I got older, my relationship with the Lord changed. In the year of the Holy Spirit, the Lord convicted me of the lukewarm and of the compromising way I was living the faith. I was shown my need to repent. The fruit of this year of repentance was that I found my heart was opened and I was invited to enter into a greater intimacy with our Lord.

The vows and the life do draw you more deeply into this intimate union and so I do consider myself His Bride and my Lord as my Beloved my Spouse.. Unlike Gemma, I haven't been married and I have lived a celibate life all my life. I want to give myself to no one else and believe me that has caused me some great difficulties in living in the world!!!

I want to give myself to Jesus as a bride and groom give themselves to each other. A wonderful that articulates that very well is "And you are Christ's" The Charism of Virginity and the Celibate Life by Fr. Thomas Dubay. I yearn for the day when I can be with my Beloved totally.
[/quote]

Edited December 3, 2010 by Chiquitunga

[OnlySunshine]

I, personally, have always loved the "bride of Christ" imagery. I think people sometimes get it confused with actually being married to Christ, but that is not it at all. It's a deep and intimate bond between the soul and the Son of God that can only be quenched by being consecrated to Him and serving Him for the rest of our lives. I see where it can become a problem, however, because those who don't belong to the Catholic Church or are not familiar with religious life think of brides of Christ as polygamy, which is an issue that the Church very much frowns upon. I've heard this phrase more than once and it bothered me so much that it almost ruined the image of a bride of Christ, but I quickly remembered one of my very favorite songs when I was discerning, which was "Beloved" by Tenth Avenue North. My friend introduced me to that song right before she entered the convent in September last year.

[kafka]

Yeah the polygamy thing is absurd.

Jesus has only one Bride. The love between Jesus and a human person is a unique and microcosmic expression of the love between Jesus and the One unique and grand Whole advancing toward completion: the Church. The love of Jesus is boundless and selfless, and so his love can assume each human person as one.

A religious woman is a particularily pure and holy expression and even a foreshadowing in this first life, of what the Church will be in the future eternal world-age. She is one little bride helping to make up the One Great Bride.

Edited December 3, 2010 by kafka

[Antigonos]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1291350685' post='2190556']
I know other people are going to post that the imagery of being a "bride of Christ" is very much a part of their faith or their vocation, but I'm not personally attracted to this image. Neither point of view is wrong or right--each women has her own, individual relationship with Christ.

I, too, have trouble with the imagery of being a "bride of Christ" or being "married to Christ." Men enter relgious life and dedicate their lives to God without being "husbands" of Mary. (After all, Mary HAD a husband.) And, these men are no less loyal to Christ or have less of of a vocation.

[/quote]


A long, long time ago I watched a BBC program about a community of contemplative nuns in the UK who relocated to a smaller suburban property when their convent became too expensive to maintain. The Mother Superior, an older woman, was asked about being a "bride of Christ", and she giggled and said that she didn't like the metaphor because it made her feel like "one of a harem". "We can't ALL be married to him, can we? Makes him sound like a polygamist". <g>

[LaPetiteSoeur]

[quote name='loveletslive' timestamp='1291353024' post='2190565']
i've heard priests say they are married to the Church
[/quote]

Some even wear wedding rings with a crucifix on them, at least in my diocese. My pastor says it kind of freaks him out, personally, but to each his own.

The whole 'bride of Christ' thing for me, personally (and remember to each his own) was never my definition of religious life. For me, it was about dedicating my life to God as He called me there to serve His people.

Dieu vous benisse.

[Hinter dem Horizont]

I really feel uncomfortable with the "bride of Christ" image as well. Yes, it may be a metaphor but the sisters on the Oprah show really emphasized that they were truly married to Jesus. They were connected to this image exaggeratedly. A sister or nun is a person following Christ not someone married to him.

[Antigonos]

[quote name='Hinter dem Horizont' timestamp='1291381217' post='2190604']
I really feel uncomfortable with the "bride of Christ" image as well. Yes, it may be a metaphor but the sisters on the Oprah show really emphasized that they were truly married to Jesus. They were connected to this image exaggeratedly. A sister or nun is a person following Christ not someone married to him.
[/quote]


In societies where all adult women were married [or it was a shame to the family if not], explaining the concept of being "married" to Jesus often had some unexpected pitfalls. In "The Nun's Story" there is a delightful interchange between an African convert and Sister Luke, where he asks her why she and her sisters aren't married because he never sees any men around the convent. She replies that they do indeed have a husband, "but He is in Heaven". The African, thinking all the sisters are widows, replies that he is very sorry to hear it.

[vee]

Of all the billions of people now on Earth and who have been and who ever will be God.... GOD.... LOVES..... YOU wholly and singularly. as if NO ONE else existed. Christ undertook His passion death and resurrection for YOU alone crying out on the cross I THIRST, and it wasnt for drink but for YOU. He longs for your love, your unique irreplaceable love. He is the spouse of your soul and your soul longs for Him, and this mutual longing will continue until both are united in heaven. In heaven where both soul and Christ can fully say the line from the Song of Solomon " I am my beloved's and my beloved is mine." Consecrated religious life is a prefigurement of this heavenly union where one's soul will be fully united to Christ alone and He to that soul, to your soul.

[In The Arms of The Lord]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1291388580' post='2190617']
Of all the billions of people now on Earth and who have been and who ever will be God.... GOD.... LOVES..... YOU wholly and singularly. as if NO ONE else existed. Christ undertook His passion death and resurrection for YOU alone crying out on the cross I THIRST, and it wasnt for drink but for YOU. He longs for your love, your unique irreplaceable love. He is the spouse of your soul and your soul longs for Him, and this mutual longing will continue until both are united in heaven. In heaven where both soul and Christ can fully say the line from the Song of Solomon " I am my beloved's and my beloved is mine." Consecrated religious life is a prefigurement of this heavenly union where one's soul will be fully united to Christ alone and He to that soul, to your soul.
[/quote]

This is very nicely said!

I remember at my past place of employment, once everyone seemed to have found out that I was going to become a nun I had many questions asked. Someone asked me why I was doing this, and I said because I am in love with Jesus, I then was asked, "How do you know?" I didn't know how to explain it, and I still don't really know how to, but I just know.

I think the term bride of Christ is a nice way of expressing the consecration to Jesus in the religious life. Some don't like this term, maybe because we all look at it differently? But also each of us has our own relationship with Our Lord and each relationship is different, but we are all called to an intimate relationship with Him. When two people are in love with eachother, there is that mutual desire to give themselves in a way that you don't want to give yourself to another, this will usually lead to the consecration to one another in marriage. I would think that those entering or have entered religious life have that desire to give themselves to Our Lord in a way that they don't want to give themselves to someone else. This passage where it says, "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh," I have also thought of this in a spiritual sense, where those that enter the religious life will leave everything to give themselves to Our Lord more completely, and with the vows, they become closely united with Him.