Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Latin Responses During Mass


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 emilier98

emilier98

    PM Alien

  • n00b
  • 525 posts
  • Catholic

Posted 16 March 2011 - 09:49 AM

So I have started going to daily mass and at the mass I go to the cantor does the responses in Latin. Due to being a convert I do not speak Latin and I have never learned the Latin responses because I don't go to the Tridentine mass because I don't understand it. So where could I find a good, free cheat sheet for the responses including the Sanctus and Agnus Dei? Please help.

#2 Nihil Obstat

Nihil Obstat

    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

  • Church Militant
  • 30,511 posts
  • Catholic

Posted 16 March 2011 - 09:59 AM

The site that I got my booklet from has expired, so the links don't work anymore. I can email my document to you instead if you want.

#3 Nihil Obstat

Nihil Obstat

    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

  • Church Militant
  • 30,511 posts
  • Catholic

Posted 16 March 2011 - 10:01 AM

This link does have the full text, but it's formatted poorly and hard to follow. The one I have is formatted nicely in double columns of Latin and English that is a lot easier to read.

Also I want to take this opportunity to say that you're super lucky to have a parish that does that. :lol:

#4 emilier98

emilier98

    PM Alien

  • n00b
  • 525 posts
  • Catholic

Posted 16 March 2011 - 11:02 AM

This link does have the full text, but it's formatted poorly and hard to follow. The one I have is formatted nicely in double columns of Latin and English that is a lot easier to read.

Also I want to take this opportunity to say that you're super lucky to have a parish that does that. :lol:


Well, it sounds pretty, but as a convert and going to a parish that does not provide missals it's a bit annoying. It's also annoying that I get told I'm a bad Catholic because I don't know the Latin.

#5 MissScripture

MissScripture

    God, deliver me from sullen saints. ~St. Teresa of Avila

  • Church Militant
  • 21,344 posts
  • Catholic

Posted 16 March 2011 - 11:05 AM

Well, it sounds pretty, but as a convert and going to a parish that does not provide missals it's a bit annoying. It's also annoying that I get told I'm a bad Catholic because I don't know the Latin.

Don't feel bad. Most Catholics (at least in the US) don't know the Latin.

#6 Cherie

Cherie

    PM Pham

  • Church Scholar
  • 2,581 posts
  • Catholic

Posted 16 March 2011 - 11:14 AM

Well, it sounds pretty, but as a convert and going to a parish that does not provide missals it's a bit annoying. It's also annoying that I get told I'm a bad Catholic because I don't know the Latin.


Ignatius Press (www.ignatius.com) has a red booklet titled, "The Mass of Vatican II" in which they have, side by side, the Latin and English parts to the Novus Ordo Mass. They also include the most commonly known chant notes (referred to as the "Jubilate Deo Mass") for the parts that are usually sung (like the Kyrie, Gloria, Sanctus, Agnus Dei, etc.) It's very well-done, and when I was a Sister it was passed out to our small congregation who would come for our community's public Sunday Mass.

You can find the booklet here, for $2: http://www.ignatius....vatican-ii.aspx

I highly recommend it. The English translation is not the current "official use" translation you'd find in an English Novus Ordo Mass, but it's a more accurate translation of the Latin, so you can understand a little better what the Latin actually means. The organization who made the booklet makes clear that the English translation they have provided is not to be used in place of the current Mass translation in English.

Hope that helps!

#7 Nihil Obstat

Nihil Obstat

    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

  • Church Militant
  • 30,511 posts
  • Catholic

Posted 16 March 2011 - 11:17 AM

I've begun saying the responses in Latin at my Mass in the vernacular. What I did for myself, since the Mass is in English, is I just carry around a small bundle of slips of paper that include only my own responses, e.g. the Confiteor, Kyrie, laus tibi Christie, etc.. If the entire Mass was in Latin though, I'd carry the whole document with me, which is around 10 letter size pages.
It's formatted just like those red booklets you can use at the T.L.M., which is handy and very easy to read. :)

I'm super glad I saved it. Like I said, the website no longer works. I guess the domain name was allowed to lapse. Great resource- I'll send it to anyone else who wants it.

#8 franciscanheart

franciscanheart

    + striving for sainthood +

  • Church Militant
  • 26,460 posts
  • Catholic

Posted 16 March 2011 - 11:59 AM

Well, it sounds pretty, but as a convert and going to a parish that does not provide missals it's a bit annoying. It's also annoying that I get told I'm a bad Catholic because I don't know the Latin.

Don't feel bad! I only learned the Latin really well when I started attending daily Mass. The choir I sing with now is slowly introducing more Latin response to the NO mass and people are slowly but surely catching on. I think it helps that they have printed in front of them what we're singing though. ;) Good luck. The link CherieMadame gave you should help a great deal! :proud:

#9 Chamomile

Chamomile

    PM Alien

  • Church Militant
  • 628 posts

Posted 16 March 2011 - 12:37 PM

So I have started going to daily mass and at the mass I go to the cantor does the responses in Latin. Due to being a convert I do not speak Latin and I have never learned the Latin responses because I don't go to the Tridentine mass because I don't understand it. So where could I find a good, free cheat sheet for the responses including the Sanctus and Agnus Dei? Please help.


We could probably just type them out here if you let us know which parts. You already know (somewhat...) what they mean in English.

So the Sanctus is:

Sanctus, Sanctus, Sacntus, Dominus Deus Sabaoth. Pleni sunt coeli (pronounced cheli) et terra gloria tua. Hosanna in excelsis (pronounced exshelsees). Benedictus qui venit in nomine Domini. Hosanna in excelsis.




The Gregorian Chant I'm listening to was actually chanting that just as I typed! :o

And the Agnus Dei is:

Agnus Dei, qui tolis peccata mundi, miserere nobis. Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis. Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, donna nobis pacem (pronounced pachem).


Maybe they also do the responses around the readings of the Epistle & Gospel? That's Verbum Domini for "The Word of the Lord" and Deo gratias for "Thanks be to God."

Then for the Gospel, Gloria tibi, Domini takes the place of Glory to thee, O Lord (I don't even remember if that's the right wording in the Novus Ordo...) and Laus tibi, Christe is "Praise to thee, Lord Jesus Christ."

And you've probably caught on to Dominus vobiscum being "The Lord be with you." The response is "Et cum spiritu tuo," which was badly translated into English, so it's really, "and with your spirit" instead of the current rendering of "and also with you."

Anything else?

Have you been to a Mass in any other language except English? I find it's about as easy to understand a Spanish Novus Ordo and pick up the responses as it is to to do the same at a Novus Ordo with Latin... but then again, I really love foreign languages and tend to pick them up easier than others, so I'm a bit biased ;) I also really like that Latin is a language used almost exclusively now (I don't know of any other uses for ecclesiastical Latin actually) to speak to God! :love: It takes on that aspect of belonging to Him alone - sort of like a consecrated religious, in my little brain.

The booklet Cheri linked to is good - I've used it before for a Latin NO.

Edited by Chamomile, 16 March 2011 - 12:50 PM.


#10 Laudate_Dominum

Laudate_Dominum

    avatar in honor of hasan

  • n00b
  • 18,616 posts
  • Catholic

Posted 16 March 2011 - 01:05 PM

Well, it sounds pretty, but as a convert and going to a parish that does not provide missals it's a bit annoying. It's also annoying that I get told I'm a bad Catholic because I don't know the Latin.

I wish being a good Catholic were as simple as learning Latin. Btw, whoever told you that not knowing Latin makes one a bad Catholic, or less of a Catholic, is full of horse manure. :wall:

#11 Papist

Papist

    acta non verba

  • Church Militant
  • 10,824 posts
  • Catholic

Posted 16 March 2011 - 02:01 PM

Well, it sounds pretty, but as a convert and going to a parish that does not provide missals it's a bit annoying. It's also annoying that I get told I'm a bad Catholic because I don't know the Latin.

They are wrong. Having the latin responses memorizied is not a factor in being a good Catholic. If you feel spry, I would humbly respond to them, "I would like to learn the latin responses. Would you please help me?".
I am fortunate that my parish pastes them inside the back cover of the misselette.

This link does have the full text, but it's formatted poorly and hard to follow. The one I have is formatted nicely in double columns of Latin and English that is a lot easier to read.

Nice link.

This, http://www.sanctamissa.org/en is a really good site too.

#12 Nihil Obstat

Nihil Obstat

    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

  • Church Militant
  • 30,511 posts
  • Catholic

Posted 16 March 2011 - 02:30 PM

Nice link.

This, http://www.sanctamissa.org/en is a really good site too.

Isn't that just 1962 missal information?

#13 Chamomile

Chamomile

    PM Alien

  • Church Militant
  • 628 posts

Posted 16 March 2011 - 03:58 PM

Well, it sounds pretty, but as a convert and going to a parish that does not provide missals it's a bit annoying. It's also annoying that I get told I'm a bad Catholic because I don't know the Latin.



Prayers for them...

Edited by Chamomile, 16 March 2011 - 03:59 PM.


#14 emilier98

emilier98

    PM Alien

  • n00b
  • 525 posts
  • Catholic

Posted 16 March 2011 - 06:07 PM

I love the way the cantor does Holy Holy Holy and the Agnus Dei and Praise to you Lord Jesus Christ and everything. It's just everything else in the mass is in English, it's just the parts that would normally be canted she does in Latin and she does it in chant and I love Gregorian Chant enough to have taken a class on it, but I want to understand what I am saying and be able to do the responses. Also the church on campus does not have missals so that makes it harder.

I will go to mass in German (I speak/understand enough German to be able to do it) and, depending on the priest, in Spanish. I've just never been exposed to Latin really.

I know I am not a bad Catholic for not knowing Latin, these kids are just annoying and they have spent 4 years condemning me because I'm divorced and obtained an annulment and because I refuse to associate myself with the pro-life movement (I am pro-life I just don't like all the mudslinging and anger and tactics of either the pro-choice or pro-life movement) and I am just tired of being told I'm a heretic and I should be excommunicated and the like.

Thank you for letting me rant.

Emilie

#15 Papist

Papist

    acta non verba

  • Church Militant
  • 10,824 posts
  • Catholic

Posted 16 March 2011 - 06:23 PM

Isn't that just 1962 missal information?


Don't know. I haven't seen on the site yet that it states such. But isn't that the missal that the extraordinary form follows?

#16 CatherineM

CatherineM

    New Mom in Training

  • Church Scholar
  • 24,379 posts

Posted 16 March 2011 - 06:44 PM

Only a handful of seminarians where I go to school know any Latin. Their bishops aren't requiring it, as a way of getting around having to offer the Latin masses in their dioceses. So our Dean of Theology has been saying mass on Wednesdays in the school chapel where he does all his parts in the Latin. It sounds like opera when he does it. He's a good Italian, and often sings opera walking down the halls, which is good because he can never sneak up on any of us. We always hear him coming. I think he is hoping that it will stick with the seminarians, and some will ask to learn the mass parts. He can't force them to, but if they request it, he can offer it.

#17 Nihil Obstat

Nihil Obstat

    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

  • Church Militant
  • 30,511 posts
  • Catholic

Posted 16 March 2011 - 10:25 PM

Don't know. I haven't seen on the site yet that it states such. But isn't that the missal that the extraordinary form follows?

We're talking about the Novus Ordo in Latin. This site is the T.L.M..

#18 Papist

Papist

    acta non verba

  • Church Militant
  • 10,824 posts
  • Catholic

Posted 17 March 2011 - 08:14 AM

We're talking about the Novus Ordo in Latin. This site is the T.L.M..


Yes. I think this site would help understand why the Latin responses in the Novus Ordo mass. Someone attending mass that everything is spoken in English, but then wonder why these certain parts are in Latin. If I were a convert, especially a new convert, I would wonder why we are doing these responses in Latin, but not others or all for that matter. This site is a tutorial of the Latin Mass for the Novus Ordo generation, which typically have never experienced the Latin Mass. Very informative and can wash away some ignorance people have regarding the Latin Mass. It did for me.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users