Church Veils For Women

[Sarah147]

[quote name='CherieMadame' timestamp='1302187807' post='2226671']
I guess there [i]are [/i]a thousand threads on chapel veils...

However, this is a topic I like to discuss so I don't mind another one about it.

Since Lent began, I have been wearing my chapel veil always in the Presence of the Blessed Sacrament, whether it be for Mass, or Stations, etc. I had been somewhat "spotty" in my wearing it before then, even though an extremely generous member of the Pham sent me one to use. In the convent where I was a member for five years, most of the women in the congregation who came to Sunday Mass wore one. There was always a "debate" amongst people; I know all the pros and cons of wearing one, and I had been torn as to whether or not I should wear one once I came out of the convent. Do it because it shows respect to Jesus? Don't do it because it would make you stand out and possibly make people uncomfortable? Are you truly trying to be pious, or are you just trying to [i]look[/i] pious to other people?

What it boiled down to was this for me: I feel called to wear it. For me, it is a simple act of respect to Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament that, in some small way, helps to make atonement for the VAST number of liturgical abuses, and the blatant disrespect or lack of belief that is shown to the Holy Sacrament of the Altar. It also helps with humility; I [i]hate[/i] standing out, and when I do I feel very embarrassed. My husband had no opinion either way, but now that I wear it he encourages me in it and actually rather likes it.

The postulants at the Nashville Dominicans wear one in Chapel because it reminds them to "put on Jesus Christ," as St. Paul says. For me, I find it helps me focus on praying better when I'm in church. So, those reasons are why I wear one.

Don't worry about what other people think. That's not the point, anyway. Jesus is pleased at your little sacrifice for Him, and for our part, we just need to keep trying to make ourselves [i]worthy[/i] to wear the veil in His Presence.
[/quote]


I totally agree with that. It really adds to respect and reverence for Jesus.

Cherie, I noticed in photos that postulants with SsEW don't have veils on? Any reason?

[Cherie]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1303860457' post='2233656']
I totally agree with that. It really adds to respect and reverence for Jesus.

Cherie, I noticed in photos that postulants with SsEW don't have veils on? Any reason?
[/quote]

Originally the postulants [i]did,[/i] but they got confused for professed Sisters, so Mother decided to change it into no veils for them. Personally, that's one thing I would definitely change. I think a veil for a postulant does a lot of good -- I think there's a thread in VS about it that I commented on as to the reasons why I think that.

BTW regarding chapel veils, I was the [i]only one[/i] who had one on for Easter Vigil Mass. It also just happened to be the Mass in which my son decided to have his worst crying fit since he was born -- started after the Gloria and continued until we got home! So, unfortunately that garnered a lot of attention. My husband came to hold Travis in the vestibule after he received Our Lord so that I could do so ... and there I was, with the priest [i]waiting for me -- [/i]I had to scurry along, my chapel veil waving in the wind (thankfully I had it affixed with bobby pins! Otherwise it would have fallen right off!) Sooooo.... not only was I the "lady with the screaming baby," I was, "the weird veil-headed lady with the screaming baby." Eh, a little bit of needed humiliation! As Mother Teresa said, "You can't be humble without having been humiliated!"

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='FutureSister2009' timestamp='1302186710' post='2226666']
We all know that back in the old days, women were required to keep their heads covered during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Nowadays, we do see some people still wear the chapel veils for Mass, especially the Latin Mass. [b]I want to wear one but my family thinks they look stupid.[/b] Bear in mind, this is the same family that is against my becoming a Sister. So what is everyone's opinion on them?
[/quote]

I've worn a small hat to the Traditional Latin Mass like [url="http://topanien.com/images/hat/hat/hat_0948_navy.jpg"]this[/url]. On Christmas Eve, one of my parents commented that the practice was like taking a step backward. Sad, you know.

[Lil Red]

my mom always wore hats to church. she was known for her hats.

[kafka]

I wear my beard to Mass.



but I think women should veil at Mass, and I think it is an important practice without going into the whole why of it.

So anyway you have my support sisters in Christo Jesu!

[Mr.Cat]

The problem is at one time women were compelled by tradition and culture to wear a head covering, under pain of chastisement. When done voluntarily out of reverence, it isn't a step backwards. In a previous thread on Phatmass I argued that head coverings were not currently compulsory, that it was wrong to force someone wear a head covering or claim it is under pain of sin. You should be familiar with such a topic. The resident radtrads and the like argued against that, saying it definitely was compulsory, women should be forced, and it was under pain of sin. There is nothing voluntary about that. Its strange how the same people who berate the religious cultures that compel women to dress differently, even if they choose differently, but these same people berate and belittle women who do not wear head coverings.

As a feminist, I do see it as a step backwards, because I don't know any other way to see it without entering denial or minimalization.

[JenDeMaria]

[quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' timestamp='1304269271' post='2235358']

<snip>

As a feminist, I do see it as a step backwards, because I don't know any other way to see it without entering denial or minimalization.
[/quote]


St. Therese had the best response to this. In a letter to her sister, she noted that everywhere she went in Rome there were signs that read "Women not allowed" and "Men only". St. Therese responded with something along the lines of (and I *am* paraphrasing here) "We poor women! We are always being told that we cannot do this or we cannot do that simply because we are not men. I love it! Because our faith tells us that the last will be first and the first will be last -- and we were born with a head start!"

This is both important and true. After all, note that Jesus did not deem equality with God something to be grasped, but rather taking the form of a slave, he humbled himself in obedience even unto death on a cross. If the Creator of Heaven and Earth did not deem equality something worth arguing about, why would I? If God Almighty could describe himself as **humble** how could I be anything else?

And if the chapel veil declares that women should be subject to men just as the Church is subject to Christ, then I **glory** and **exult** in that subjection because it is the very same subjection which makes our Church one, holy, Catholic and apostolic. It guaruntees that our faith will not descend into the death spiral of Protestant sect-fracturing. It guaruntees that our faith cannot be hijacked by some rogue Pope or Cardinal. It declares that I do not have to re-ratify every article of my faith for myself in order to believe them -- I have a Church for that who reliably represents Christ to me. It is amesome.

However, I am a radically reformed former-feminist and I know that my beliefs are not for everyone. I have also noted that St. Paul himself declares at the end of the passage in which he recommends veiling that "if this offends anyone, we have no such custom". I believe that the Church wisely removed the requirement for veiling from cannon law in accord with St. Paul's conclusion in order to remove a stumbling block for modern women who will be challenged, in a rights-based world, by the inherent heirarchy of the Church -- and that if veiling offends you, you very seriously have no requirement to veil whatsoever.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' timestamp='1304269271' post='2235358']
The problem is at one time women were compelled by tradition and culture to wear a head covering, under pain of chastisement. When done voluntarily out of reverence, it isn't a step backwards. In a previous thread on Phatmass I argued that head coverings were not currently compulsory, that it was wrong to force someone wear a head covering or claim it is under pain of sin. You should be familiar with such a topic. The resident radtrads and the like argued against that, saying it definitely was compulsory, women should be forced, and it was under pain of sin. There is nothing voluntary about that. Its strange how the same people who berate the religious cultures that compel women to dress differently, even if they choose differently, but these same people berate and belittle women who do not wear head coverings.

As a feminist, I do see it as a step backwards, because I don't know any other way to see it without entering denial or minimalization.
[/quote]
according to Fr. Z, Edward Peters, Cardinal Burke, women are not compelled to wear a head covering.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Lil Red
remembered the Cardinal's name

[Mr.Cat]

[quote name='JenDeMaria' timestamp='1304279047' post='2235415']St. Therese had the best response to this. In a letter to her sister, she noted that everywhere she went in Rome there were signs that read "Women not allowed" and "Men only". St. Therese responded with something along the lines of (and I *am* paraphrasing here) "We poor women! We are always being told that we cannot do this or we cannot do that simply because we are not men. I love it! Because our faith tells us that the last will be first and the first will be last -- and we were born with a head start!"

This is both important and true. After all, note that Jesus did not deem equality with God something to be grasped, but rather taking the form of a slave, he humbled himself in obedience even unto death on a cross. If the Creator of Heaven and Earth did not deem equality something worth arguing about, why would I? If God Almighty could describe himself as **humble** how could I be anything else?

And if the chapel veil declares that women should be subject to men just as the Church is subject to Christ, then I **glory** and **exult** in that subjection because it is the very same subjection which makes our Church one, holy, Catholic and apostolic. It guaruntees that our faith will not descend into the death spiral of Protestant sect-fracturing. It guaruntees that our faith cannot be hijacked by some rogue Pope or Cardinal. It declares that I do not have to re-ratify every article of my faith for myself in order to believe them -- I have a Church for that who reliably represents Christ to me. It is amesome.

However, I am a radically reformed former-feminist and I know that my beliefs are not for everyone. I have also noted that St. Paul himself declares at the end of the passage in which he recommends veiling that "if this offends anyone, we have no such custom". I believe that the Church wisely removed the requirement for veiling from cannon law in accord with St. Paul's conclusion in order to remove a stumbling block for modern women who will be challenged, in a rights-based world, by the inherent heirarchy of the Church -- and that if veiling offends you, you very seriously have no requirement to veil whatsoever.[/quote]This is a denial of suppression or a defense of it, at best. In a free society you are welcome to have a head covering. But as much as I am a former Catholic, is much as I am concerned that you thought yourself once a feminist. [i]Though I always offered my female friends a veil when they came with me to the Latin Mass Community[/i].[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1304282788' post='2235424']according to Fr. Z, Edward Peters, and a cardinal, women are not compelled to wear a head covering.[/quote]Where were you when I had this discussion or cared? But... I quoted to them relevant sources, they... dont care.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Mr.CatholicCat

[TradMom]

+Praised be Jesus Christ!

I find that wearing a veil during Mass helps me focus and keep my eyes on Christ. Some of the other mothers in our parish wear them, some wear hats, some don't. but honestly, I do LIKE it.

Pax,
TradMom

[TradMom]

+Praised be Jesus Christ!

I find that wearing a veil during Mass helps me focus and keep my eyes on Christ. Some of the other mothers in our parish wear them, some wear hats, some don't. but honestly, I do LIKE it.

Pax,
TradMom

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' timestamp='1304288006' post='2235435']
Where were you when I had this discussion or cared? But... I quoted to them relevant sources, they... dont care.
[/quote]
the bathroom?

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1304363783' post='2235858']
the bathroom?
[/quote]

[AccountDeleted]

This is such a personal topic and is very culturally dependant - like whether its ok to wear pantsuits to Mass too. I didn't answer the poll because it's asks what I like and this is different for different situations. I live in the Australian bush, where people show up to Mass in very non-formal clothes and it would look absurd for me to wear a veil in church. On Holy Thursday we only had 11 people for Mass and on Easter Sunday we had 25. I'm just glad we have that many so that the priest will come! But in such a small group, it would just seem pretentious to wear a mantilla or veil.

When I attended the Latin Mass for six months, I always wore a headcovering because nearly all of the women did - it felt right. Now, I wear a headband that to me is a compromise. It doesn't really cover my head, but it is something on my head. It doesn't draw attention to me or make others uncomfortable. I don't think this issue is so important that it should cause any dissention - it is a bit like worrying about how clean the bowl is on the outside, while forgetting the inside.

Anyway, that's my view of it. If the Magesterium came out and said, all women go back to the veil, then it would be appropriate and I would be happy to do it. Everyone quotes St Paul about head coverings, but he also said, "Be all things to all men."

[Lil Red]

no one.should.ever.wear.pantsuits.

EVER.

not even EPSS.