dominicansoul Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 i'm sorry, but the seriousness of this thread just got hijacked by the pirate speak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 arrr God save us from sad faced saints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 [quote name='bernard' timestamp='1316476095' post='2307270'] Here is a Ukranian Orthodox Bishop who accepts papal authority, he addresses the pope "Your Holiness." He is also scandalized by the Assisi meetin's. So you matey have to ask how many faithful are we losin' because of these events. [/quote] Arrr ye keep up yer excuses to not come back to the proper ship matey. Just because everything on board isnt perfect doesnt mean it be the wrong boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I've been to Assisi. I will always associate it with Saint Francis, Saint Clare...the beginning of the Franciscan order. I don't know all that much about the interfaith prayer meetings they have there from time to time. I have, however, listened to the pope speak on ecumenical topics, and he [i]does not[/i] contradict the encyclical of Pope Pius XI. Do I think there should be Buddha statues on top of tabernacles? No, of course not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernard Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 (edited) I think Pius XI was pretty in line with what the Church fathers have always taught but back to where we started, the VII documents that Marcel Lefebvre refused to sign, one of those being Nostra Aetate. Nostra Aetate, is pretty much what Pius XI was condemning in what I posted earlier and the Assisi meetings are the manifestations of this VII declaration. There is another Assisi interreligious meeting planned for October 27th of this year, we'll see how many converts we get out of it. And as far as this ties into the entire thread, last Thursday (the day before the meeting in Rome) the SSPX published a very condemning article about Assisi, I picked one up and read it on the way home from mass. I was really wondering why they would publish such a severe condemnation of the past Assisi events and the one coming up in October THE DAY BEFORE MEETING WITH THE VATICAN. Where they trying to appease the hardcore elements withing the society who think the society is going to soften its position? I mean they have been doing a rosary crusade that they would regularized, publishing this pamphlet is hardly going to help that cause. Letter here http://sspx.org/district_news/renewing_the_assisi_scandal_fr_cacqueray-9-13-2011.htm Edited September 20, 2011 by bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 [quote name='bernard' timestamp='1316521769' post='2307543'] There is another Assisi interreligious meeting planned for October 27th of this year, we'll see how many converts we get out of it. [/quote] Is there a timetable on conversion? Like "if we don't net 10 converts by October 31, it's a failure".... If you have a timetable, what is it? why do you put the limit of time on the Holy Spirit? And..well..how would YOU know if there are converts? Did the RSVP's come to you and your will be collecting the follow up data?? If you did get the RSVP's and are collecting the follow up data, does your methodology include spouses, children, friends, family of those the 'potential convert' might interact with and possible relate the details of the Assisi meetings? Does your data collecting include the possibilty of 2nd hand conversion? Or... you just don't like it, so there is NO POSSIBLE WAY there could be ANY converts??? (i'm leaning to one of those, but I ain't gonna tell you which) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernard Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 It's not a matter of me not liking it. This kind of thing has been condemned by previous popes and its not just the SSPX that don't like it, a lot of conservative Catholics don't like it either. But I probably should have left that line out of my post it was a bit antagonistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 so you are sidestepping the questions about converts? Or is that your way of saying you really have no idea and shouldn't have made such a silly comment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernard Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 (edited) Did you know the church where the 1986 interreligious meeting took place was destroyed by an earthquake in 1997. I think I'll just leave it at that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1Fer3yMo5I Edited September 20, 2011 by bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 so you are sidestepping the question, Ms. Bachmann. good to know.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 bernard, if God wanted to punish the gathering, don't you think the church would have been destroyed DURING the gathering?? Or do you think God is passive-aggressive???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Warning- side step approaching... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 (edited) [quote]we'll see how many converts we get out of it.[/quote] I dont know how many converts the SSPX will get out of it. With your small numbers though Im sure you guys will be able to keep track. Edited September 20, 2011 by vee8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 [quote name='bernard' timestamp='1316521769' post='2307543'] Nostra Aetate, is pretty much what Pius XI was condemning in what I posted earlier and the Assisi meetings are the manifestations of this VII declaration. [/quote] No, it's actually not. I read the encyclical. Pope Pius XI condemned any sort of 'all religions are basically the same, are basically good, it doesn't matter which one you are' mentality. The Vatican has spent all the years since Vatican II correcting anyone who tried to read [i]Nostra Aetate[/i] that way. (That's no secret, either - look at who gets official warning/condemnations from the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith.) The Vatican II document does [i]not[/i] support religious indifference. What it does is to define what we have in common with the various religions in the world. It acknowledges their existence and their differences. The world isn't made up of Catholics and heathens. The Orthodox have apostolic succession. Other Christians share our faith in Jesus Christ, his death and resurrection (and in many cases, the tenets of the apostles' creed and the early councils). Jews and Muslims are monotheists. Etc. Yes, [i]Nostra Aetate[/i] focuses on the positive. It doesn't go out of its way to point out the differences between those religions and the Catholic faith. I can see how that would be frustrating to someone who likes to focus on that aspect of things. But I think we have plenty of writings that do that. We didn't need to say (again) that we don't consider Mohammed to be a prophet. We've already stated that quite clearly. And [i]Nostra Aetate[/i] didn't change that. [quote] I was really wondering why they would publish such a severe condemnation of the past Assisi events and the one coming up in October THE DAY BEFORE MEETING WITH THE VATICAN. Where they trying to appease the hardcore elements withing the society who think the society is going to soften its position? I mean they have been doing a rosary crusade that they would regularized, publishing this pamphlet is hardly going to help that cause. [/quote] From the outside, it has seemed as if the goal of the SSPX leadership throughout this process has been to become regularized without changing anything. A 'See, we were right all along! Rome finally agrees!' mentality. So, that involves saying 'We're doing everything we can to gain acceptance' while at the same time being blatantly open about the things they disagree with. It's almost like they're testing what they can get away with. Obviously none of us know the contents of the document they were given the next day, but likely there is some description of what it means to be in communion with the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. If they can sign off on that in good conscience, the occasional rant probably won't be seen as a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 (edited) Since the SSPX is so hung up on following pope Pius the 3493276 they probably totally discard everything after 1939 like this. [img]http://www.divinemercysunday.com/dm3.jpg[/img] Edited September 20, 2011 by vee8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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