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Ale.SOLT

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So I have realized that the closer that I become to Jesus, the more my childhood friends have left me. :crazy: But through all of this I have one very special and dear person to me, my best friend Marc. :buddies2: :heart:

We literally talk about everything and are very opened with each other.
Lately, my parents and the sisters at my parish have noticed this and they said it wasnt okay for us to be so close.

Are they right??? :huh: :idontknow: :unsure:

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That's probably something that you need to talk to your spiritual director about, on an individual basis. I've heard a few people say that, especially while discerning religious life, it's best not to have super-intimate friendships with guys. However, I've also heard people say that it's good to have a person to talk things out with, whether it's a guy or girl.

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InPersonaChriste

The problem with boy and girl relationships is that if they are very open with eachother men and women get very attached very fast. Girls need to talk to other girls and not boys with their emotional conversing. I had a priest explain it to me much better than I am doing now. I have a large group of friends who are boys, but I think getting close to them can cause many problems because women do really need to have strong female relationships.

I encourage you to talk with your spiritual director, I believe that your parents are right in saying that you are opening yourself up to much to this young man (however wonderful a friend he may be)

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Hmmm. That is very true!
Well, My other best friend who is A girl is a Novice with the DSMME. Sr. Rene Noel. We write to each other. Its been hard to just have her away.

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Yes, definitely discuss this with your spiritual director. If you don't have a spiritual director, I would advise you to try and find one, as it is invaluable during discernment (and during any time of your life, but particularly then!)

I would agree with your parents and the sisters at your parish. It's ok to chat with someone of the opposite sex, especially regarding the things of the Lord (like discernment) but IPC is right; that kind of emotional attachment, even if it has no kind of "sexual attraction" as its basis, is not appropriate for someone discerning religious life. It doesn't mean you can't be friends with Marc, but it does mean you probably should distance yourself from an intimate friendship with him.

I know it may [i]seem[/i] rather "heartless", and for those who don't have any other close friends with whom they can discuss things, it can seem unfair, but it's your spiritual good and clarity of discernment that is the basis for that kind of advice. Those emotional attachments can become strong, and even if it is completely innocent and there is no sexual attraction there, it has the potential to cause problems; many situations of those in discernment in the past are a testament to that fact, which is why spiritual directors usually advise those in serious discernment stay away from very close friendships of those of the opposite sex.

Many religious communities, even the most popular ones, do not allow those in discernment to have contact (i.e. letters) with friends of the opposite sex, even very close friends. The only exception would be family members. The reason is the same as the reason for those in discernment, only a religious has even more of an obligation to detach herself from the world in order to fully dedicate herself to God.

I'm sure a priest or religious would be better able to explain it than me; so I reiterate that you should definitely speak to your spiritual director about it!

I would encourage you that now is a good time to seek out other friendships with young women in your area, perhaps those in your parish, etc.

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FutureCarmeliteClaire

I have had the same experience that as I've grown closer to God more friends have left me and I have also made new friends. I do have a guy friend that is pretty close and he is discerning the priesthood and for us the best part of this is that we know we are both "taken" and we do not feel those "attraction" feelings. It is really a wonderful arrangement. Of course, neither of us would be utterly opposed to the prospect of the vocation of marriage, but any "attractions" are never the basis of our conversations. We share a lot in common, our preferences in the liturgy, our desire to give our lives entirely to God through the religious life, our love for Apologetics, our love for the Church, etc. We don't have anything that could be a "boyfriend/girlfriend" relationship in the future (we are still very young he is 16 and I am 13, but I can seem older and he can seem younger, just our personalities). If you feel like your friendship with Marc could be dangerous to your vocations then you should talk to your spiritual director, but if it's anything like my relationship with my friend, I don't see a reason.

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FutureCarmeliteClaire

Oh, and my friend and I are not in a "close, close friendship" there, at this point, is no potential for a relationship. Just to clarify that my brother and him are closer than him and me.

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Speaking from my own experience, any friendship in which you become too emotionally dependent on another person - no matter whether they're a guy or a girl - is damaging, as it compromises your ability to trust. You might start to think that you couldn't function without your friend. You might grow blind to their faults and put them on a pedestal - only to feel sorely disappointed (even angry) when they don't live up to the unrealistic standard you've set for them. You might end up not being as good a friend as you could be to other people, maybe even neglecting them a bit, as you're getting so much satisfaction from this one particular friendship.

Detachment doesn't mean cutting yourself from your friends. It means ensuring that friendship enriches your life as opposed to detracting from it.

It's possible that detachment may become more difficult when your close friends are of the opposite sex, but I think this will vary from person to person. It isn't true in my own case.

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Very sound advice from all here. I made most of my friends from being involved in youth ministry. It's such a blessing to have people your age who share the same values as you.

You should get involved in your church, in a youth group, or any other ministry that let's you interact with people your age.

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AccountDeleted

Well, I hate to be the odd voice out here but if women and men can't have 'friendships' then someone should have told St Teresa and St John of the Cross or St Jane de Chantal and St Vincent de Sales or St Clare and St Francis or..... the list goes on and on. And St Teresa even had a very strong emotional attachment to her superior and last director, Father Gracian and was always writing to him and wanting to see him.

Sure, there are dangers inherent in young men and women getting too close when they are both considering religious life, but for a superior to say that her nuns can't even write to a male!! Well, that just seems ridiculous to me. Some of St Teresa's most personal letter were written to Gracian and it would be our loss not to have those examples of her humanity today.

I would say, as others have said here, get a spiritual director and discuss the issue with him/her. A lot depends on you and this young man, and the level of emotional intimacy involved etc... I have six brothers and can see men as friends - not just potential partners. You might develop a very holy brother/sister relationship with this young man, but for that to be the case, there have to be boundaries set and adhered to so that you both understand the nature of your relationship. If you feel that you can't do this, then okay, don't see him, but even Our Lord had friendships with women. Let common sense and good spiritual direction guide your actions.

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FutureCarmeliteClaire

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1321667067' post='2338111']
Well, I hate to be the odd voice out here but if women and men can't have 'friendships' then someone should have told St Teresa and St John of the Cross or St Jane de Chantal and St Vincent de Sales or St Clare and St Francis or..... the list goes on and on. And St Teresa even had a very strong emotional attachment to her superior and last director, Father Gracian and was always writing to him and wanting to see him.

Sure, there are dangers inherent in young men and women getting too close when they are both considering religious life, but for a superior to say that her nuns can't even write to a male!! Well, that just seems ridiculous to me. Some of St Teresa's most personal letter were written to Gracian and it would be our loss not to have those examples of her humanity today.

I would say, as others have said here, get a spiritual director and discuss the issue with him/her. A lot depends on you and this young man, and the level of emotional intimacy involved etc... I have six brothers and can see men as friends - not just potential partners. You might develop a very holy brother/sister relationship with this young man, but for that to be the case, there have to be boundaries set and adhered to so that you both understand the nature of your relationship. If you feel that you can't do this, then okay, don't see him, but even Our Lord had friendships with women. Let common sense and good spiritual direction guide your actions.
[/quote]
Can't begin to say how much I like this one.

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I agree with nunsense. Relationships between any two people are rarely black and white, yes and no. You may have to delve into the gray area on this one. If the sisters and your parents are saying that you are too close with this young man maybe you could ask what specifically they see as being potentially problematic which would give you some insight into yourself. This might give you a better idea of the behavior that is making them uncomfortable - just your having a male friend shouldn't make anyone uncomfortable. I don't see a sister just saying something like that unless there were some specific things that made her feel "off." I'm not saying you are doing anything wrong or inappropriate but maybe sister is misunderstanding something she is observing. It's also possible that a generational difference might be part of this if she is older. It might be easier to ask your parents first if you feel uncomfortable asking sister. If the sister(s) is/are sisters who act as formators then I would approach this a little differently but it seems that they are simply sisters at your parish and have no authority over your discernment and spiritual formation.

Anyway, an example of an unhealthy attachment that would be worrisome would be if you are on the phone for hours in the middle of the night talking and talking and talking and you look forward to it, make time for it, and go out of your way for that companionship. However, if you occasionally go out for lunch or work together on a project at church - anyone can see that from any perspective and read more into it/misunderstand your friendship. People who aren't with you all the time might not realize that you have other friends, talk to other people, do other things than what they happen to see you doing in one particular situation.

It is essential in religious life to be able to have healthy and appropriate relationships with men. I'm constantly meeting with parents, working with male colleagues, and studying with people of the opposite sex in my age group. It's essential for me to know how to be "sister" to them and that sisterly love does not involve avoidance but truth and charity. I certainly need to be prudent about those interactions and in tune with my own feelings about those experiences but then I act accordingly.

Again, you have to search your own heart but you may learn something about yourself, your family, and your sisters if you delve a little deeper into this to see what you uncover rather than taking it as a "yes" or "no" answer or a black and white perspective.

Prayers!

edited for then instead of than... im a teacher... :)

Edited by Sister Marie
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[quote name='Sister Marie' timestamp='1321670138' post='2338125']
I agree with nunsense. Relationships between any two people are rarely black and white, yes and no. You may have to delve into the gray area on this one. If the sisters and your parents are saying that you are too close with this young man maybe you could ask what specifically they see as being potentially problematic which would give you some insight into yourself. This might give you a better idea of the behavior that is making them uncomfortable - just your having a male friend shouldn't make anyone uncomfortable. I don't see a sister just saying something like that unless there were some specific things that made her feel "off." I'm not saying you are doing anything wrong or inappropriate but maybe sister is misunderstanding something she is observing. It's also possible that a generational difference might be part of this if she is older. It might be easier to ask your parents first if you feel uncomfortable asking sister. If the sister(s) is/are sisters who act as formators then I would approach this a little differently but it seems that they are simply sisters at your parish and have no authority over your discernment and spiritual formation.

Anyway, an example of an unhealthy attachment that would be worrisome would be if you are on the phone for hours in the middle of the night talking and talking and talking and you look forward to it, make time for it, and go out of your way for that companionship. However, if you occasionally go out for lunch or work together on a project at church - anyone can see that from any perspective and read more into it/misunderstand your friendship. People who aren't with you all the time might not realize that you have other friends, talk to other people, do other things than what they happen to see you doing in one particular situation.

It is essential in religious life to be able to have healthy and appropriate relationships with men. I'm constantly meeting with parents, working with male colleagues, and studying with people of the opposite sex in my age group. It's essential for me to know how to be "sister" to them and that sisterly love does not involve avoidance but truth and charity. I certainly need to be prudent about those interactions and in tune with my own feelings about those experiences but then I act accordingly.

Again, you have to search your own heart but you may learn something about yourself, your family, and your sisters if you delve a little deeper into this to see what you uncover rather than taking it as a "yes" or "no" answer or a black and white perspective.

Prayers!

edited for then instead of than... im a teacher... :)
[/quote]

Sister Marie, as always you have given a wonderful response.

I particularly agree with what you said about exploring a little deeper the reason behind others thinking your relationship is somehow "too close."

I feel I should explain myself a little better and clarify what I was speaking of in my response. I understand if others don't necessarily agree, and I'll try to clarify as best I can.

We live in a society that is permeated with inappropriate relationships, particularly among young people. (The "hook up" culture, for example). While this is usually not the behavior of those trying to live close to the Lord (even less those in discernment!), it's a fact that young people nowadays do not have the healthy boundaries they once were taught from a young age. The relationships that men and women Saints have had with one another is something that is borne of a mature spirituality and a healthy knowledge of human sexuality. I think it is wise to caution young women in serious discernment and in formation, because (especially in today's day and age) they have not had the proper training as to what is appropriate and prudent for a religious.

Yes, of course contact with the opposite sex is something every person—especially religious—takes part in and MUST take part in, but in order for it to become a relationship which is more spiritual than emotional in nature and in which the religious is secure in her consecration to the Lord, and not a relationship that has the potential to become an occasion of sin (or worse) takes training, which is why many communities don’t allow women in formation to write to their male friends. Once they are professed, it’s often a different story, but for the communities that choose to set those rules, I think it is the result of wise discernment and care for the spiritual and emotional well-being of the Sisters. It’s not meant to “cut off” a person from your life; rather, it’s meant to safeguard a Sister’s religious formation until she has the spiritual maturity and knowledge to appropriately and healthfully engage in a relationship with the opposite sex.

I have witnessed inappropriate behavior between certain Professed Sisters and men; not surprisingly, one later left the convent. It is extremely edifying to see a religious perfectly at ease in her conversations with people of either sex, sharing with them the fruit of her contemplation and consecration to the Lord. On the other hand, however, it can be a cause of grave scandal to witness a Sister engaged in behavior unbecoming of a Spouse of Jesus Christ, particularly when dealing with men.

Therefore, to sum up my feelings on the issue: I think relationships between women religious and men are important, as many Saints bear witness to that fact. But when it comes to the vulnerable period of discernment and formation for those religious women, caution and prudence should be advised.

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