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Lil Red

Real Catholic Tv's Statement

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Lil Red
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNiOwYtv7oQ

and a [url="http://gladius-spiritus.blogspot.com/2012/01/few-thoughts.html"]good fisking of it[/url], which reads in part:

[quote]Voris's narrative is a narrative of power. He is claiming a great amount of power to himself, and you must accept his claim if you are to accept his narrative.The claim to power is the very assumption that underpins his statement. The assumption that Voris has the power to say who is to be obeyed and who is not; who is to has the power to speak, and who has not; who is right, and who is not; and who is Catholic, and who is not; and who has the right to say who is Catholic, and who does not. This all began when the Archdiocese of Detroit, in response to question, issued a statement which said, in short, that Voris and RealCatholic television does not speak for the Church. Voris' response is "Yes, I do. In fact, mine is the only group that speaks for the Church."[/quote]

what did you think of Voris' statement?

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nunsense
This scares me - it is almost evil...

[quote]
Voris here finally invokes the name that sparked this little dust-up in the most surprising- even shocking- way, and it cannot possibly have been accidental. Voris has carefully constructed a narrative in which the Curia, which issued the original release, is on the side of Satan, and he is allied with the Bishop, the Pope, and the Church. He has now invoked the name of his company as the true name of the Church. Oppose me, and you oppose the bishop the Pope and the Church itself. After all, if you accept his narrative, he is not disobeying the ordinary of the archdiocese which issued the first statement, but with the forces of Satan within the curia who are the real forces which oppose him and who, presumably, actually issued the statement
[/quote]

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nunsense
Oh yeah, thanks for posting this article Red, it was so well thought out and written (except for the typos :P ) and it really shows easy it is to use propaganda to influence others and hold power over them.

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BG45
"Yes, I do. In fact, mine is the only group that speaks for the Church."

Our history is filled with Saints who were obedient to Bishops who restricted their work, only to later be told to go ahead with what they wished. One of the most recent examples of this is Archbishop Sheen's cause for canonization; he was a brilliant orator and highly educated, but placed into an average position for years before his Bishop said he wanted to see his obedience before entrusting him with great things. It is a shame that in his hubris, Michael Voris does not feel the need to be as humble as they.

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Laudate_Dominum
The LifeSite article is interesting.

[url="http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archdiocesan-canon-lawyers-differ-on-asking-realcatholictvcom-to-drop-cath"]http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archdiocesan-canon-lawyers-differ-on-asking-realcatholictvcom-to-drop-cath[/url]

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Laudate_Dominum
How has the guy been disobedient to the Church exactly? I don't think obedience (whatever that means) requires one to acquiesce to scummy bullying.

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Tony
"[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]"Yes, I do. In fact, mine is the only group that speaks for the Church " A statement like that could get you a phishy tag here real quick.[/size][/font][/color]

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Laudate_Dominum
[quote name='Tony' timestamp='1326335747' post='2367323']
"[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]"Yes, I do. In fact, mine is the only group that speaks for the Church " A statement like that could get you a phishy tag here real quick.[/size][/font][/color]
[/quote]
I can't pretend to know exactly what the guy meant by that and what the context was. The blog post Red posted obviously frames it a certain way. Even so, a flippant comment isn't disobedience. Maybe his group does represent orthodoxy and the powers that be in that diocese are corrupt. I don't know.

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Maggyie
[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1326333376' post='2367292']
The LifeSite article is interesting.

[url="http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archdiocesan-canon-lawyers-differ-on-asking-realcatholictvcom-to-drop-cath"]http://www.lifesiten...om-to-drop-cath[/url]
[/quote]

I have to say my favorite part of the article was the graph that stated his site "has become relatively well known in the pro-life and pro-family world due to Voris’ straight-talking defense of the right to life and sanctity of the family." I didn't know that advocating for the abolition of democracy fell under the category of pro-life or pro-family! Wow I learn something new every day.

I'm sure everyone can understand why a guy who puts out a video advocating dictatorship as the best form of government, and who headlines it RealCatholic TV, would draw some negative attention from his bishop.

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nunsense
Wouldn't it be interesting if everyone in the world wore a tag that described their status in relation to Rome? The phishy tag is cute but I really liked the old one that explained it better... 'I don't rep the Pope'.

I just viewed a website for a group that calls itself the Independent Catholic Christian Church. They have Bishops and nuns and priests and sacraments (all 7 according to them!) and everything just like the Church... only they are really 'Catholic Lite' because their priests and nuns and Bishops can be men or women, gay and lesbian, married or unmarried, you name it, it seems to be allowed. They say in their info section that the only thing that really makes them different from the Roman Catholic Church is that they don't agree with the role of the Bishop of Rome. Sounds like they have a lot more differences than that! And yet they use the word 'Catholic" in their name.

I think that Voris is missing the point here. If the Bishop is asking him to stop using the name Catholic, then he must think he has a reason. Voris would do better to try to find out what that reason is, and to work with his Bishop until his company actually does meet the standards of the Bishop, who does rep the Pope.

Although it may be true that there are others who use the name and should not (witness the Independant Catholic Christian Church), if those who really believe they are 'true Catholics' would obey their Bishops, then the name would mean something more when it is allowed to be used legally. I just don't see any humility here at all.

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Laudate_Dominum
[quote name='Maggie' timestamp='1326336509' post='2367332']
I have to say my favorite part of the article was the graph that stated his site "has become relatively well known in the pro-life and pro-family world due to Voris’ straight-talking defense of the right to life and sanctity of the family." I didn't know that advocating for the abolition of democracy fell under the category of pro-life or pro-family! Wow I learn something new every day.

I'm sure everyone can understand why a guy who puts out a video advocating dictatorship as the best form of government, and who headlines it RealCatholic TV, would draw some negative attention from his bishop.
[/quote]
[i]Hiss!! [/i]

Cherry picking his vids for something to blow up and make fun of? Lame. Do you actually have verifiable insight into why he's being persecuted or are you just sharing your bias?

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Laudate_Dominum
[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1326336690' post='2367335']
Wouldn't it be interesting if everyone in the world wore a tag that described their status in relation to Rome? The phishy tag is cute but I really liked the old one that explained it better... 'I don't rep the Pope'.

I just viewed a website for a group that calls itself the Independent Catholic Christian Church. They have Bishops and nuns and priests and sacraments (all 7 according to them!) and everything just like the Church... only they are really 'Catholic Lite' because their priests and nuns and Bishops can be men or women, gay and lesbian, married or unmarried, you name it, it seems to be allowed. They say in their info section that the only thing that really makes them different from the Roman Catholic Church is that they don't agree with the role of the Bishop of Rome. Sounds like they have a lot more differences than that! And yet they use the word 'Catholic" in their name.

I think that Voris is missing the point here. If the Bishop is asking him to stop using the name Catholic, then he must think he has a reason. Voris would do better to try to find out what that reason is, and to work with his Bishop until his company actually does meet the standards of the Bishop, who does rep the Pope.

Although it may be true that there are others who use the name and should not (witness the Independant Catholic Christian Church), if those who really believe they are 'true Catholics' would obey their Bishops, then the name would mean something more when it is allowed to be used legally. I just don't see any humility here at all.
[/quote]
It is an extreme measure by the bishops and I personally find it odd that he's being singled out when wacky liberal organizations free to use the word Catholic. Is he a sedevacantist? An obstinate heretic? Quite often people complain about the guy's tone but that's not good enough. Maybe he's more or less saying the truth about that diocese. Is this ruled out?

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nunsense
[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1326337277' post='2367344']
It is an extreme measure by the bishops and I personally find it odd that he's being singled out when wacky liberal organizations free to use the word Catholic. Is he a sedevacantist? An obstinate heretic? Quite often people complain about the guy's tone but that's not good enough. Maybe he's more or less saying the truth about that diocese. Is this ruled out?
[/quote]

How would it hurt him to stop using the name while he and his Bishop worked things out? He has made this a media event by defying his Bishop and making a scandal for the Church. Even if he has good points to make, making them in the media is simply causing more bad press for an already beleaguered Church.

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Laudate_Dominum
[quote name='Tony' timestamp='1326335747' post='2367323']
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]A statement like that could get you a phishy tag here real quick.[/size][/font][/color]
[/quote]
Not to derail but it's not like the phishy tag has never been used to marginalize and bully people on this site before. An incident with Cam comes to mind.

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nunsense
[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1326337866' post='2367356']
Not to derail but it's not like the phishy tag has never been used to marginalize and bully people on this site before. An incident with Cam comes to mind.
[/quote]

There are many different POVs on Cam but they're not appropriate here. Bringing that up doesn't help your point.

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Laudate_Dominum
[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1326337980' post='2367359']
There are many different POVs on Cam but they're not appropriate here. Bringing that up doesn't help your point.
[/quote]
It wasn't meant to help my point. I just found it ironic that the phishy was invoked as if to command respect.

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