Laudate_Dominum Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1326336690' post='2367335'] Wouldn't it be interesting if everyone in the world wore a tag that described their status in relation to Rome? The phishy tag is cute but I really liked the old one that explained it better... 'I don't rep the Pope'. I just viewed a website for a group that calls itself the Independent Catholic Christian Church. They have Bishops and nuns and priests and sacraments (all 7 according to them!) and everything just like the Church... only they are really 'Catholic Lite' because their priests and nuns and Bishops can be men or women, gay and lesbian, married or unmarried, you name it, it seems to be allowed. They say in their info section that the only thing that really makes them different from the Roman Catholic Church is that they don't agree with the role of the Bishop of Rome. Sounds like they have a lot more differences than that! And yet they use the word 'Catholic" in their name. I think that Voris is missing the point here. If the Bishop is asking him to stop using the name Catholic, then he must think he has a reason. Voris would do better to try to find out what that reason is, and to work with his Bishop until his company actually does meet the standards of the Bishop, who does rep the Pope. Although it may be true that there are others who use the name and should not (witness the Independant Catholic Christian Church), if those who really believe they are 'true Catholics' would obey their Bishops, then the name would mean something more when it is allowed to be used legally. I just don't see any humility here at all. [/quote] It is an extreme measure by the bishops and I personally find it odd that he's being singled out when wacky liberal organizations free to use the word Catholic. Is he a sedevacantist? An obstinate heretic? Quite often people complain about the guy's tone but that's not good enough. Maybe he's more or less saying the truth about that diocese. Is this ruled out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1326337277' post='2367344'] It is an extreme measure by the bishops and I personally find it odd that he's being singled out when wacky liberal organizations free to use the word Catholic. Is he a sedevacantist? An obstinate heretic? Quite often people complain about the guy's tone but that's not good enough. Maybe he's more or less saying the truth about that diocese. Is this ruled out? [/quote] How would it hurt him to stop using the name while he and his Bishop worked things out? He has made this a media event by defying his Bishop and making a scandal for the Church. Even if he has good points to make, making them in the media is simply causing more bad press for an already beleaguered Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='Tony' timestamp='1326335747' post='2367323'] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]A statement like that could get you a phishy tag here real quick.[/size][/font][/color] [/quote] Not to derail but it's not like the phishy tag has never been used to marginalize and bully people on this site before. An incident with Cam comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1326337866' post='2367356'] Not to derail but it's not like the phishy tag has never been used to marginalize and bully people on this site before. An incident with Cam comes to mind. [/quote] There are many different POVs on Cam but they're not appropriate here. Bringing that up doesn't help your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1326337980' post='2367359'] There are many different POVs on Cam but they're not appropriate here. Bringing that up doesn't help your point. [/quote] It wasn't meant to help my point. I just found it ironic that the phishy was invoked as if to command respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1326338162' post='2367362'] It wasn't meant to help my point. I just found it ironic that the phishy was invoked as if to command respect. [/quote] I meant it as a clarifier, not a term of respect. Not everyone who claims to be Catholic is Catholic, and I guess that's why the Bishop has his own objections to the use of the term. I still don't understand why Voris can't try to work with him instead of fighting him so publicly. It isn't as if the name Catholic is going to make or break his company, but a fight with the Bishop just might cause a lot of distress to Catholics who feel caught up in the fight. If we debate it here, you can imagine the confusion with some faithful who don't know what's going on. I hate seeing anyone take their fight to the media, expecially those who are in positions of responsibility like clergy or media. I was half joking about the tag, and I don't particularly like the phishy one, I prefer the 'I don't rep the Pope' one because it seems a little clearer, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1326337838' post='2367353'] How would it hurt him to stop using the name while he and his Bishop worked things out? He has made this a media event by defying his Bishop and making a scandal for the Church. Even if he has good points to make, making them in the media is simply causing more bad press for an already beleaguered Church. [/quote] I can't claim to have a familiarity with the situation and dynamics that would permit me to pass judgement of that kind. I think it is a fallacy to insist that Voris must act in an exemplary manner based on some idealized scenario. I haven't been following this controversy and am playing a bit of devil's advocate because the LifeSite article gives a different impression than the blog post and I don't want to get carried away with assumptions and judgmentalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1326338566' post='2367369'] I can't claim to have a familiarity with the situation and dynamics that would permit me to pass judgement of that kind. I think it is a fallacy to insist that Voris must act in an exemplary manner based on some idealized scenario. I haven't been following this controversy and am playing a bit of devil's advocate because the LifeSite article gives a different impression than the blog post and I don't want to get carried away with assumptions and judgmentalism. [/quote] I guess my first assumption is this... (and it didn't come from the monastery but from industry! ) Rule Number 2: If the boss is wrong, refer to Rule number 1. . . . . . . Rule number 1: The boss is always right! Now, before anyone leaps down my throat about Nazis and obeying Hitler etc, this is an example of a rule that is used in industry and also in monasteries to a certain degree. And of course it isn't always true, but in these situations, one should err on the side of caution and first assume that the 'boss' is in charge for some reason, and that the best plan of attack to get one's point across is not to antagonise the boss. But just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1326338897' post='2367382'] I guess my first assumption is this... (and it didn't come from the monastery but from industry! ) Rule Number 2: If the boss is wrong, refer to Rule number 1. . . . . . . Rule number 1: The boss is always right! Now, before anyone leaps down my throat about Nazis and obeying Hitler etc, this is an example of a rule that is used in industry and also in monasteries to a certain degree. And of course it isn't always true, but in these situations, one should err on the side of caution and first assume that the 'boss' is in charge for some reason, and that the best plan of attack to get one's point across is not to antagonise the boss. But just my 2 cents. [/quote] That is razzle dazzle. I tend to distrust authority in general, and in particular exploitations of power based on religion, so perhaps our dispositions and sensibilities define whatever disagreement exists between us here. No big deal to me. Woot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1326333577' post='2367296'] How has the guy been disobedient to the Church exactly? I don't think obedience (whatever that means) requires one to acquiesce to scummy bullying. [/quote] You seriously calling a Bishop a scummy bully? For shame! Lifesitenews article misses the point. It is not about coming down on realcatholictv for any bad deeds. As for as that Independent Catholic Church org, we don't know if their bishop did the same with them. It very well may have been done in private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1326340242' post='2367392'] As for as that Independent Catholic Church org, we don't know if their bishop did the same with them. It very well may have been done in private. [/quote] Quite true about the Independant Catholic Church - who knows what their Bishop told them? I hope that their 'Bishop' now is not a validly ordained one who dissented and left the Church! Edited January 12, 2012 by nunsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [b][size=3][color=#333333]"I can be obedient, because it is my fundamental conviction that my intelligence is limited and the Church is wiser." --Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger[/color][/size][/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1326340465' post='2367395'] [b][size=3][color=#333333]"I can be obedient, because it is my fundamental conviction that my intelligence is limited and the Church is wiser." --Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger[/color][/size][/b] [/quote] Trust Papa to say the right thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1326340242' post='2367392'] You seriously calling a Bishop a scummy bully? For shame! Lifesitenews article misses the point. It is not about coming down on realcatholictv for any bad deeds. As for as that Independent Catholic Church org, we don't know if their bishop did the same with them. It very well may have been done in private. [/quote] You misunderstand what I was saying and didn't speak to the question I was raising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1326340419' post='2367393'] Quite true about the Independant Catholic Church - who knows what their Bishop told them? I hope that their 'Bishop' now is not a validly ordained one who dissented and left the Church! [/quote] For the 'bishop''s sake, I hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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