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Real Catholic Tv's Statement


Lil Red

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[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1326340567' post='2367398']
You misunderstand what I was saying and didn't speak to the question I was raising.
[/quote]

This is your question, [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]How has the guy been disobedient to the Church exactly? , yes?[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Did I misunderstand him in the video clip? Voris intends not to obey his bishop, no? From where I sit, it is disobedience to not comply with your bishop.[/font][/color]

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[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1326336819' post='2367338']
[i]Hiss!! [/i]

Cherry picking his vids for something to blow up and make fun of? Lame. Do you actually have verifiable insight into why he's being persecuted or are you just sharing your bias?
[/quote]

Arrr, I don't think I'm cherry-picking. This is someone who has a personal alternative magisterium that is more ideological than theological. Example, his ranting about parishes that celebrate Earth Day. The pope talks regularly about sustainable development and the squandering of resources and the Vatican is officially a carbon-neutral state. He talks about how it is a moral imperative to reduce our energy use, to live a lifestyle that is not so consumptive. He has spoken about this at World Youth day, in his Urbi et Orbi, and so on. He is not the first pope to do so, either. You don't have to agree with the theory of climate change to acknowledge the need for things to change in this area. It's definitely mainstream Catholic thought.

But according to Voris, Earth Day is about population control and an anti-life agenda and if your pastor dares to preach about caring for the environment you should leave the parish. It's possible the Pope and the bishops in communion with him didn't get the memo... or it's possible that Voris has an agenda of his own. And there's a solid group of people that listen to Voris more than they listen to the Pope.

The reason the bishops don't go after Catholics for Choice or Liberal Catholic U is that it would be a waste of time, because these organizations could really care less about

a. the bishop's opinion and/or
b. the name Catholic.

Liberal Catholic U would be happy to change their affiliation to Liberal U, thank you very much, and they could finally dump the fig leaf of "campus ministry" and vaguely Christian "service projects." Catholics for Choice would just put out a press release sticking their tongues out and everyone would carry on, because nobody expects those people to obey their bishops and obedience is not important to their supporters.

Voris and his supporters are supposed to care about obedience. That's the price of publically proclaiming yourself the most orthodox of them all.

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[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1326333577' post='2367296']
How has the guy been disobedient to the Church exactly? I don't think obedience (whatever that means) requires one to acquiesce to scummy bullying.
[/quote]

The bishop asked that RealCatholictv drop the Catholic. Obviously they are refusing. That would qualify as disobedient.

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Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[quote name='BigJon16' timestamp='1326321680' post='2367189']
I think he should be obedient to the Archdiocese of Detroit.

Real Catholics are obedient to The Church.

Voris + disobedience = Voris not being a Real Catholic...
[/quote]

Well to some degree unless the bishop is a heretic with priest linked into the heresy and the layity is in schism, than i would not be obeying my bishop to the umpth degree, than i would pray or him and all those caught in the heresy often, which leads me to ask, is a priest which is a heretic are his sacrements still valid,and if a bishop is a heretic are his ordinations valid, and is a heretic only are heretic if warned however many times to repent and on failure to repent and submit to rome ex communicated. And so on and so forth. So if i goto confession and latter on there found to be heretics are my confessions and absolution valid particularily if the priest was unbeknowns to his heretical ways.... etc etc

God bless you all
God is good,God is love,God saves

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Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[quote name='jaime' timestamp='1326329345' post='2367243']
Being obedient is easy when you agree with your bishop. True obedience is when you do what he asks and you don't agree.
[/quote]

I assume your all in lay orders and those lay orders have taken a vowe of obediance to rome and your bishops or possibly your all priests nuns and deacons ? I don't get it, i know i'm going to fight against a heretical bishop or priest as a laymen to the best of my ability even to the point of ex-communication (hopefully.) Kinda scary i know but what do you do. But than i wouldn't vocalise till i had talked to various confidones,elders and priests/deacons at variying parishes over time.

Godbless

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Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

st nicholas punched out a heretic bishop at a council and got ex-communicated and later was re-instated when everyone was sure the man was a heretic, EWTN told me so

What did santa claus say to the gangster when the gangster asked him "Howzit goin'?" Santa Claus said "Still sleighin em'."

Edited by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye
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According to canon law, one must obtain the bishop's permission in order to use the word 'Catholic' in a name. This is important, so not just anyone can build a building and call it 'St. Mary's Catholic Church', 'St. John the Evangelist Catholic School' or 'Holy Spirit Catholic Retreat Center' etc. It's to protect the faithful from wandering into something that appears Catholic on the surface, but in reality has no connection with the Church. A group that was initially started within the Church and gained this approval (but later went astray) is of course a problem in our current world....but fly-by-night groups from nowhere will [i]always[/i] be an issue, and one of the responsibilities of a bishop is to halt such things.

Note that the groups like 'Independent Catholic Churches' have to have that qualifier in the name. They must legally be allowed to do that by saying that they [i]aren't[/i] part of the Catholic Church and have a unique identity. [I don't know the details.]

So, regardless of motive, the bishop is [i]well[/i] within his rights to ask a group called 'RealCatholicTV' that did not request permission to cease and desist...and yes, claiming that you are actually part of the Catholic Church and not a rebel means that you....obey.

When you start fighting back and rebelling....you are moving to put yourself outside the Church, and that's not a good direction to move in.

Really, the easiest solution is for Voris to find a new diocese with bishop approval and to set up his nonprofit there. I'm not saying that won't involve a good deal of effort and paperwork. But it's the easiest way to keep the name [i]and[/i] remain obedient. Changing the name is always an option as well. Staying put and saying 'no' just creates unnecessary scandal.

Edited by MithLuin
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AccountDeleted

EWTN did quite well without using the name Catholic. I don't know why he's making such a big deal out of this. Some fights are worth fighting. Is this? And in public like this? The whole thing seems fishy.

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I'm not sure if you can change the name of a nonprofit without having to start over with applying for nonprofit status again. That would be....a little bit annoying (though it's not the end of the world). Also, IIRC, he [like many, many other non-profits] was caught off guard by the change in the tax code that required nonprofits that did not owe taxes to file an alternative form that stated they did not have to file (failure to file the form meant you lost non-profit status). So....he is quite possibly in the midst of reapplying for non-profit status again anyway, which would be the perfect opportunity to change the name. He doesn't have to change the name of 'the Vortex' of course.

Changing his youtube handle is hardly something worth fighting with the bishop over; you just do that already.

[b]Tab'le[/b], regardless of what else might be going on with the bishop of Detroit (I don't even know who that is), he is hardly acting from a position of heresy in this case. He is exercising his lawful (ie, canon law) right as bishop.

Edited by MithLuin
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Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

I justed watched the flick, unsure what the drama is,can somone give the pre-empt to the dillema that i may see cleary? But i have to say anyhow this, I heard during i think it was world war 1 or 2 where many good christians rejected the name of christ to save there lives and than after the war wanted to come back in and admitted what they had done ad some bishop or cardinal was staunch against there return and said they where not catholic and should not be allowed back in and actually latter on down the track he fell into schism and outside of the church :( and as far as i'm aware the droves(i think that is the word) where allowed back in. Let me site you saint paul and the O.T. as my witness. "Saint paul states the "the LORD can remove a branch whenever he so chooses but also can reattach that branch at the whim of his will." I assume the branch gets detached to die for whatever reason and reattached again to possibly flurrish betteror whatever reason the lord has. Also let me enlighten you all to the plight of the israelites tooing and frowing in the desert.

ok God bless you all.
God is good,God is love,God saves.

JC "seek and ye shall find." "Knock and the door will be opened." "Anyone whom is for you(me) can not be against you(me)" (and read the gospels to find out the rest of that text.) "be baptised and believe and you will be saved." "anyone whom eats my flesh and drinks my blood will have life." "confess with your tounge and believe in your heart."

St Paul "persistance bears fruits of hope."
St Francessca Cabrini the american saint. "he that dares nothing recieves nothing,a missionary should b fearless."
St Mary Mackillop of the cross." Be eager in your desires but patient in there accomplishment."

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Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

is this group the sspx group, coz my fssp priest told me that i have to understand that the priesthood is for them is still valid and recognised by the vatican but in a sense that are illegitimat but still valid. well what i just wrote kind of makes sense, it made more sense when he told me.

Edited by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye
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Tab'le, as far as I know, Voris is not someone who attends SSPX chapels. However, he is obviously of the same bent as many other Traditionalist Catholics, so I'm sure there are some people who are SSPX who do agree with Voris and repeat what he says. That shouldn't tar him, though.

Voris is not outside the Church; he is a Catholic layman in (relatively) good standing. A public fight with his bishop may change that, of course.

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Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1326336690' post='2367335']
Wouldn't it be interesting if everyone in the world wore a tag that described their status in relation to Rome? The phishy tag is cute but I really liked the old one that explained it better... 'I don't rep the Pope'.

I just viewed a website for a group that calls itself the Independent Catholic Christian Church. They have Bishops and nuns and priests and sacraments (all 7 according to them!) and everything just like the Church... only they are really 'Catholic Lite' because their priests and nuns and Bishops can be men or women, gay and lesbian, married or unmarried, you name it, it seems to be allowed. They say in their info section that the only thing that really makes them different from the Roman Catholic Church is that they don't agree with the role of the Bishop of Rome. Sounds like they have a lot more differences than that! And yet they use the word 'Catholic" in their name.

I think that Voris is missing the point here. If the Bishop is asking him to stop using the name Catholic, then he must think he has a reason. Voris would do better to try to find out what that reason is, and to work with his Bishop until his company actually does meet the standards of the Bishop, who does rep the Pope.

Although it may be true that there are others who use the name and should not (witness the Independant Catholic Christian Church), if those who really believe they are 'true Catholics' would obey their Bishops, then the name would mean something more when it is allowed to be used legally. I just don't see any humility here at all.
[/quote]
Can one rep the pope and the holy magesterium,priests,deacons and missionary brothers ad sisters inclusive, without repping the heretical ones coz there have been some through the history,rarely a pope though i might add,than cardinals,than bishops,than priests,than missionary brothers and sister than deacons,than layity. Carefull your in the red zone HAHA keep it in check aight :) of course i'm not saying that this bishop is wrong or right, just throwing my dumness into the ring for ya'll.

God bless

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AccountDeleted

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1326350442' post='2367477']
Tab'le, as far as I know, Voris is not someone who attends SSPX chapels. However, he is obviously of the same bent as many other Traditionalist Catholics, so I'm sure there are some people who are SSPX who do agree with Voris and repeat what he says. That shouldn't tar him, though.

Voris is not outside the Church; he is a Catholic layman in (relatively) good standing. A public fight with his bishop may change that, of course.
[/quote]

And if he does think keeping the name Catholic is that important to him, perhaps he needs to move to another diocese, where he might find a Bishop who agrees with him.

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[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1326350598' post='2367479']
And if he does think keeping the name Catholic is that important to him, perhaps he needs to move to another diocese, where he might find a Bishop who agrees with him.
[/quote]

And if he can't find one, then the name 'Catholic' doesn't really apply to his group anyway.

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