56 replies to this topic

[Ice_nine]

To all my philosopher folk, I'd like to learn me some about the philosophical arts, but seeing as the dept. at my college don't seem all that stellar I figured might as well just do it as a hobbyist gig.

I think it would be helpful for me to start with ancient philosophers and move chronologically, so I can see how worldviews have changed over the years and such.

It's a little daunting without halp. There any resources you peoples can point me to? Like I said I'd like to start off with ancient philosophy, and it would be nice to have a Catholic commentary or perspective, as I know the early church fathers based much of their philosophy off the even ancient-er peoples.

SO PLZ HALP. I'm kind of a doofus. Help a doofus today. Thank you

[arfink]

Well, nothing beats having the actual texts instead of working from someone else's commentary and ignoring the original document altogether. Especially with the ancients.

Believe it or not, most Wikipedia articles about various philosophers are remarkably accurate and academic. They make a great first stop for all your self-directed philosophy needs. But I do say most, because as your studies move you more towards the modern age you will notice that the views begin to take on a very definite secular and modernist bias. Basically anything from Descartes onwards will almost certainly require outside Catholic sources in order to understand it from a Catholic perspective.

I don't have a clear list in mind for good Catholic commentary concerning the subject, since it's such a broad field. I studies at the University of St. Thomas, whose philosophy program is very well respected from what I can tell, and many of my profs were forced to compile various small articles and papers from other Catholic philosophers together for us, since the field is surprisingly under-represented by Catholics. Go figure.

[CatherineM]

I'll send you my text books for this semester to read if you'll do my assignments.

[Kia ora]

Hai.

http://www.historyof...osophy.net/home

Bai.

[Ice_nine]

I'll send you my text books for this semester to read if you'll do my assignments.

Sure! Only your instructors might think you write like a twenty-something punk who thinks she knows more than she does.

Hai.

http://www.historyof...osophy.net/home

Bai.

thx

[berenike]

Plato's dialogues, Aristotle's Nichomachean Ethics, Aquinas' "On the Principles of Nature", Aristotle with Aquinas' commentary (lots of Aquinas in English online here). You might as well just get stuck in to the actual stuff straight away, the commentaries will make more sense and be more interesting - though I find it helps to have something to hand saying who was where and when and wrote what. Once you've read a bit of Plato and the Platonists, and the Stoics, you can easily see the resemblances in the church fathers!

The Universal Encyclopaedia of Philosophy published by the Catholic University of Lublin has a good number of articles up in English here (pdf's, sadly) (oh, and I didn't realise the English ones only go up to "b" so far!).

Feser's Aquinas and (jolly read, if you like polemic!) The Last Superstition, his book on Locke, ...

Ralph McInerny's History of Western Philosophy and his Guide for Peeping Thomists.

The Last Superstition and the Guide for Peeping Thomists, especially the first part of the latter, will be useful for reading post-medieval philosophers especially.

Chesterton's Thomas Aquinas

Feser's blog, also Just Thomism and Siris/Branemarys blogs. If you are short of reading, you'll find lots of suggestions from here.

Gilson's Spirit of Medieval Philosophy, Krąpiec/Krapiec Metaphysics (rare and hard to find in English, but you might be lucky).

There is an excellent but hefty (five volumes or so) history of ancient philosophy by a chap called Giovanni Reale.

[qfnol31]

I have found Plato and a Platypus Walked into a Bar an entertaining, though somewhat vulgar, read on philosophy. You might want to check it out.

I would start with primary texts, even though they're more difficult than other introductions or readers. It's more work up front, but it'll pay greatly down the road. I began with Plato's Republic, Aristotle's Nichomachean Ethics, and a few selections from Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologiae. If you're interested what to read from that last selection, lemme know.

[thedude]

A good way to navigate is by checking out "great books" lists from liberal arts programs at different universities. See what they expect their graduates to have read and work through it. Philosophy graduate programs usually have similar lists for their comprehensive exams.

[Lilllabettt]

Philosophy can be a dangerous thing. You should get a master, young padawan.

[Hasan]

Wikipedia is your friend, in this case. Quick like for all the jargon. Go fiddle around on that for a bit at first. There are a few good texts out there. Peter Kreeft wrote a nice little introduction you'd probably like. There is a great, but perhaps somewhat challenging for a beginner, text out there by Anthony Kenny. A huge version and a brief one. Bertrand Russell, one of the giants of Analytical philosophy wrote a history of philosophy and a Problems of Philosophy. Will Durant has a good history out there.

Right now, just start reading here.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Philosophy

Click through and read what looks interesting.

[thedude]

A good way to get in is Phaedo by Plato, which contains Socrates' defense of his project to the jury in Athens. It's short, entertaining, and will turn you into a lover of wisdom.

[qfnol31]

In full disclosure, I got my BA in philosophy from the University of Dallas, the small liberal arts Catholic college. Since then I have finished an MA in Historical Theology and found the program there immensely helpful.

[Laudate_Dominum]

I think it would be helpful for me to start with ancient philosophers and move chronologically, so I can see how worldviews have changed over the years and such.

For square one Western philosophy I would suggest these volumes,

The Presocratic Philosophers by Kirk, Raven, and Schofield
W. K. C. Guthrie's A History of Greek Philosophy

[Kia ora]

Don't kill me pls, but is it such a good idea to start off with primary sources like Plato? Sure, there are good translations nowadays of the most important dudes (ugh and of course they're male, we hardly get any female philosophers until the 20th freaking century) but that doesn't mean it's so easy to understand what the heck they're talking about. I suggest reading the secondary sources in tandem with the primary sources.

[Amppax]

Don't kill me pls, but is it such a good idea to start off with primary sources like Plato? Sure, there are good translations nowadays of the most important dudes (ugh and of course they're male, we hardly get any female philosophers until the 20th freaking century) but that doesn't mean it's so easy to understand what the heck they're talking about. I suggest reading the secondary sources in tandem with the primary sources.

I'm not sure if its a good idea, but I'm currently a freshman studying Plato (and soon Aristotle and others) in my classes. Certainly these things are abstract and obtuse, but all that means is that one should read these books more than once, and make many attempts to extract meaning. As my professor is fond of saying, there are layers and layers of meaning and interpretation to these works, and you can never truly exhaust these ideas. So personally, I would suggest starting with the classics.

[arfink]

I would suggest starting with the originals if only so that you can read them and go "What in the name of Nero's golden fruitcake is going on here?!?" Then you'll appreciate the various commentaries alot more.

[Hasan]

Don't kill me pls, but is it such a good idea to start off with primary sources like Plato? Sure, there are good translations nowadays of the most important dudes (ugh and of course they're male, we hardly get any female philosophers until the 20th freaking century) but that doesn't mean it's so easy to understand what the heck they're talking about. I suggest reading the secondary sources in tandem with the primary sources.

I agree with this completely.

[Hasan]

I'm not sure if its a good idea, but I'm currently a freshman studying Plato (and soon Aristotle and others) in my classes. Certainly these things are abstract and obtuse, but all that means is that one should read these books more than once, and make many attempts to extract meaning. As my professor is fond of saying, there are layers and layers of meaning and interpretation to these works, and you can never truly exhaust these ideas. So personally, I would suggest starting with the classics.

But you're in a class. Receiving instruction and clarification from somebody who understands these texts as a function of their profession.

[Hasan]

I think it would be helpful for me to start with ancient philosophers and move chronologically, so I can see how worldviews have changed over the years and such.

You are not going to be able to read most of philosophy. That's not any sort of statement of your intelligence. Philosophy is full of jargon and references that really are very difficult to understand. I mean without some introduction to the jargon (which varies over time, Philosophy is over 3,000 years old) and the context within which the texts are being written (the understanding of the natural sciences and philosophy at the time and the philosophical debates of the day) then really reading those texts is going to be a waste of time. You're just not going to get nearly as much out of the texts as you should. There are a lot of anthologies out there that give a solid introduction and then provide some selections of the more important texts written by the major philosophers

Some texts, like Wittgenstein's Tracticus, are almost literally incomprehensible unless you have a really strong grounding in the philosophical debate within which he was entering.

[Brother Adam]

That is tough - where to start with Philosophy. Josef Pieper has an excellent text, For the Love of Wisdom that I might start with if you are going to do something completely self-directed. You can spend the rest of your life reading philosophers. Peter Kreeft's Philosophy 101 books are also great, but a general overview, such as Pieper would be really helpful to learn about philosophy from a Catholic perspective. I echo the other posters who said not to start with the original sources. You'll get there soon enough. You could probably read and do okay with Plato though. My two cents.