23 replies to this topic

[Hasan]

I'm supportive of gay rights and the 'It Gets Better' campaign.  But this article really troubles me.  It's about the Rutgers kid who comitted suicide.  


Dharun Ravi grew up in Plainsboro, New Jersey, in a large, modern house with wide expanses of wood flooring and a swimming pool out back. Assertive and athletic, he used “DHARUNISAWESOME” as a computer password and played on an Ultimate Frisbee team. At the time of his high-school graduation, in 2010, his parents bought space in the West Windsor and Plainsboro High School North yearbook. “Dear Dharun, It has been a pleasure watching you grow into a caring and responsible person,” the announcement said. “You are a wonderful son and brother. . . . Keep up your good work. Hold on to your dreams and always strive to achieve your goals. We know that you will succeed.”
One day this fall, Ravi was in a courthouse in New Brunswick, fifteen miles to the north, awaiting a pre-trial hearing. In a windowless room, he sat between two lawyers, wearing a black suit and a gray striped tie. His eyes were red. Although he is only nineteen, he has a peculiarly large-featured, fully adult face, and vaguely resembles Sacha Baron Cohen. When Ravi is seen in high-school photographs with a five-o’clock shadow, he looks like an impostor.
His father, Ravi Pazhani, a slight man with metal-frame glasses, sat behind him. Some way to the right of Pazhani were Joseph and Jane Clementi. Jane Clementi, who has very straight bangs, wore a gold crucifix. She and her husband form a tall, pale, and formidable-looking couple. Their youngest son, Tyler, had died a year earlier, and the family’s tragedy was the silent focus of everyone in the room. That September, Tyler Clementi and Ravi were freshman roommates at Rutgers University, in a dormitory three miles from the courtroom. A few weeks into the semester, Ravi and another new student, Molly Wei, used a webcam to secretly watch Clementi in an embrace with a young man. Ravi gossiped about him on Twitter: “I saw him making out with a dude. Yay.” Two days later, Ravi tried to set up another viewing. The day after that, Clementi committed suicide by jumping from the George Washington Bridge.
Clementi’s death became an international news story, fusing parental anxieties about the hidden worlds of teen-age computing, teen-age sex, and teen-age unkindness. ABC News and others reported that a sex tape had been posted on the Internet. CNN claimed that Clementi’s room had “become a prison” to him in the days before his death. Next Media Animation, the Taiwanese company that turns tabloid stories into cartoons, depicted Ravi and Wei reeling from the sight of Clementi having sex under a blanket. Ellen DeGeneres declared that Clementi had been “outed as being gay on the Internet and he killed himself. Something must be done.”
Enraged online commentary called for life imprisonment for Ravi and Wei, and Ravi’s home address and phone number were published on Twitter. Ravi was called a tormenter and a murderer. Garden State Equality, a New Jersey gay-rights group, released a statement that read, in part, “We are sickened that anyone in our society, such as the students allegedly responsible for making the surreptitious video, might consider destroying others’ lives as a sport.” Governor Chris Christie, of New Jersey, said, “I don’t know how those two folks are going to sleep at night, knowing that they contributed to driving that young man to that alternative.” Senator Frank Lautenberg and Representative Rush Holt, both from New Jersey, introduced the Tyler Clementi Higher Education Anti-Harassment Act. Clementi’s story also became linked to the It Gets Better project—an online collection of video monologues expressing solidarity with unhappy or harassed gay teens. The site was launched the day before Clementi’s death, in response to the suicide, two weeks earlier, of Billy Lucas, a fifteen-year-old from Indiana who, for years, had been called a “fag” and told vicious things, including “You don’t deserve to live.” That October, President Barack Obama taped an It Gets Better message, referring to “several young people who were bullied and taunted for being gay, and who ultimately took their own lives.”

It became widely understood that a closeted student at Rutgers had committed suicide after video of him having sex with a man was secretly shot and posted online. In fact, there was no posting, no observed sex, and no closet. But last spring, shortly before Molly Wei made a deal with prosecutors, Ravi was indicted on charges of invasion of privacy (sex crimes), bias intimidation (hate crimes), witness tampering, and evidence tampering. Bias intimidation is a sentence-booster that attaches itself to an underlying crime—usually, a violent one. Here the allegation, linked to snooping, is either that Ravi intended to harass Clementi because he was gay or that Clementi felt he’d been harassed for being gay. Ravi is not charged in connection with Clementi’s death, but he faces a possible sentence of ten years in jail. As he sat in the courtroom, his chin propped awkwardly on his fist, his predicament could be seen either as a state’s admirably muscular response to the abusive treatment of a vulnerable young man or as an attempt to criminalize teen-age odiousness by using statutes aimed at people more easily recognizable as hate-mongers and perverts.
Ravi had made four court appearances since his indictment. That morning’s hearing was intended to set a trial date, and to consider motions previously submitted by Steven Altman, Ravi’s lawyer.
Judge Glenn Berman announced that he was denying the defense’s request to see various documents in the possession of the state, including a handwritten document—conceivably, a suicide note—found among Clementi’s things at Rutgers. Then, over the objections of Julia McClure, an attorney in the Middlesex County prosecutor’s office, Berman confirmed an earlier ruling: the defense should privately be given the full name of Clementi’s romantic partner on the night of the alleged offenses. The man, known in the public record as M.B., was a likely prosecution witness.


Read more http://www.newyorker...r#ixzz1lHtRCQqY

[Selah]

I remember reading about this.

[USAirwaysIHS]

Interesting. The sad thing is that, even if acquitted, this poor kid will always have the ire of a large number of people for something that he seemingly didn't do.

[Hasan]

USAirwaysIHS, on 02 February 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

Interesting. The sad thing is that, even if acquitted, this poor kid will always have the ire of a large number of people for something that he seemingly didn't do.

That's true.  I mean, what he did was wrong.  But it wasn't anything that I think merits serious jail time or a criminal record that's going to prevent him from getting a serious job in the future.

[MissScripture]

That was an interesting read. It's definitely a different (and fuller) picture of the situation than was presented when he first died. It will be interesting to see what happens in court.  In cases like this, I always wonder how they can find an unbiased jury.

[USAirwaysIHS]

Hasan, on 02 February 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

That's true.  I mean, what he did was wrong.  But it wasn't anything that I think merits serious jail time or a criminal record that's going to prevent him from getting a serious job in the future.

Certainly homophobia (in the true sense of the word) is wrong, but as the article pointed out, he was much more concerned about the other student being poor than being gay. Not to say that having prejudices against people from different economic classes than oneself is alright, but you certainly can't go to jail for calling someone poor.

[Hasan]

USAirwaysIHS, on 03 February 2012 - 12:28 AM, said:

Certainly homophobia (in the true sense of the word) is wrong, but as the article pointed out, he was much more concerned about the other student being poor than being gay. Not to say that having prejudices against people from different economic classes than oneself is alright, but you certainly can't go to jail for calling someone poor.

I meant the camera spying.  Although it was his dorm room too.  I just think what he did, while a copper posser move, should get him on student probation, not 10 years in jail.

[USAirwaysIHS]

Oh yeah, I had forgotten about that. Jerkish, yeah. Illegal? To have a camera in one's own living space? I wouldn't think so...

[Selah]

No, yet there is somthing...I have to look through my textbook....that says, if you contributed in any way to what lead to the death of another individual, you are still guilty of murder in some form.

Or maybe not. Maybe I dreamed that. I have to check.

[kujo]

Not sure whether the guy can be held criminally accountable, but at the least, he is a grade-A jackass. Reminds me of the legal loophole that Joe Paterno was able to slide through; his negligence in that matter wasn't criminal but it was certainly a morally-reprehensible thing to do. Same goes here.

[USAirwaysIHS]

Please tell me that you're not comparing some kid setting up a webcam in his own room (a stupid and petty thing to do, yes) with a grown man watching children get raped and not saying anything about it.

[kujo]

USAirwaysIHS, on 03 February 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

Please tell me that you're not comparing some kid setting up a webcam in his own room (a stupid and petty thing to do, yes) with a grown man watching children get raped and not saying anything about it.

Joe Paterno didnt "watch...children getting raped." He was informed that it was happening and chose only to "notify his superior," instead of what any rational person would have done, which is tell the police.

The comparison is in regards to criminal culpability--what JoePa did wasn't "illegal," but it was certainly wrong by any moral and ethical standard. Same goes for the kid in this sad, unfortunate story. He might not get charged or convicted with a crime, but he did a bad bad thing.

Is that a sufficient enough breakdown?

Edited by kujo, 03 February 2012 - 06:55 PM.

[Dennis Tate]

If you do a search for the near death experience of Christian Andreason you will find some specific statements on this question that I personally cannot argue with at all!

http://www.allaboutc...lity/index.html


What about sexually diverse people?
If this world were to ever find out just a small amount of what sexually diverse (Gay, Lesbian, Bi-sexual and Transgendered) people are here to do on this planet, there would never be one single wisecrack or hurtful remark made ever again. Instead there would be great respect!  People who speak disrespectful things about people of this orientation ... enact judgment, and do so from a place of unenlightenment, insecurity, ego and socially-induced prejudice.
Some may use mistranslated and/or misunderstood scriptures taught to them, not by the Holy Spirit ... but by fear-filled human beings. Many will choose to sustain a Divinely unsupported, satanic, hate-based rage against these children of God, rather than using Love to bring understanding and healing between both peoples.
Christ said, THE GREATEST COMMANDMENT IS THAT WE ARE TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER!  When people sling condemnation, judgment and bitterness at others, they are not practicing the great commandment. They are allowing their Souls to fall into darkness." (Christian Andreason, chapter 10)

[Nihil Obstat]

Dennis Tate, on 04 February 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

If you do a search for the near death experience of Christian Andreason you will find some specific statements on this question that I personally cannot argue with at all!

http://www.allaboutc...lity/index.html

He's not Christian, is he?

[Socrates]

Let's not let either the facts or the law get in the way of a good witch hunt in the Sacred Cause of Gay Rights.


Ellen DeGeneres wills it!

[Socrates]

Dennis Tate, on 04 February 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

If you do a search for the near death experience of Christian Andreason you will find some specific statements on this question that I personally cannot argue with at all!

http://www.allaboutc...lity/index.html


What about sexually diverse people?
If this world were to ever find out just a small amount of what sexually diverse (Gay, Lesbian, Bi-sexual and Transgendered) people are here to do on this planet, there would never be one single wisecrack or hurtful remark made ever again. Instead there would be great respect!  People who speak disrespectful things about people of this orientation ... enact judgment, and do so from a place of unenlightenment, insecurity, ego and socially-induced prejudice.
Some may use mistranslated and/or misunderstood scriptures taught to them, not by the Holy Spirit ... but by fear-filled human beings. Many will choose to sustain a Divinely unsupported, satanic, hate-based rage against these children of God, rather than using Love to bring understanding and healing between both peoples.
Christ said, THE GREATEST COMMANDMENT IS THAT WE ARE TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER!  When people sling condemnation, judgment and bitterness at others, they are not practicing the great commandment. They are allowing their Souls to fall into darkness." (Christian Andreason, chapter 10)

I'll trust the inspired words of St. Paul the Apostle on this topic over this Andreason fellow.

But then I'm backwards like that.

[Socrates]

Selah, on 03 February 2012 - 07:53 AM, said:

No, yet there is somthing...I have to look through my textbook....that says, if you contributed in any way to what lead to the death of another individual, you are still guilty of murder in some form.

Or maybe not. Maybe I dreamed that. I have to check.

You have to intend the death of that person to be guilty of murder.

[southern california guy]

I guess the trial will set a precedent of a sort.  What will the charges be?  Invasion of privacy?  Embarrassing your roommate?  Seriously the guy and his whatever should have gotten a motel room.  It's not considerate to your dorm mate to do that in the dorm room.

[Maggie]

southern california guy, on 04 February 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

I guess the trial will set a precedent of a sort.  What will the charges be?  Invasion of privacy?  Embarrassing your roommate?  Seriously the guy and his whatever should have gotten a motel room.  It's not considerate to your dorm mate to do that in the dorm room.

Seriously. My sister can tell some... interesting stories from when she was "sexiled" by roommates. Rude.

[USAirwaysIHS]

Maggie, on 04 February 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

Seriously. My sister can tell some... interesting stories from when she was "sexiled" by roommates. Rude.

That was the other thought that came to my mind.
Were I to be fooling around in my dorm room - whether with someone of the opposite or same sex - and discovered that my roommate was recording it, I imagine I'd be weirded out enough to go to the other person's place next time.