BG45 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Selah' timestamp='1330393839' post='2393847'] 1. Bible verse that states that the Sacred Scripture is the final authority [/quote] You know, even as a Baptist I never really got Sola Scriptura. I mean, Deuteronomy 4:2 commands that the word not be added to or taken away from, yet that would invalidate a lot of the Old Testament and the entirety of the New Testament. 2 Timothy 3:16 likewise tells us that all Scripture is God-breathed, but then we come to the argument that recurs in this thread over who decides what Scripture is, because there was still Scripture to be found in the Bible that was written after 2 Timothy. Then Paul says in 2 Thessalonians 2:15, "hold fast to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter", which implies there is tradition alongside the written word (which had yet to be compiled into the Bible). Paul also cites a letter we don't have in the Bible, in 1 Corinthians 5:9-11, talking about his previous letter about not associating with those who are sexually immoral. Let alone other, smaller things, like the word Trinity never appearing in the Bible, nor the word Bible. Or that Luther threw out entire books of the Bible in his Reformation. Luther even seems to acknowledge this problem of relying exclusively on Scripture in correspondence with [url="http://www.archive.org/stream/grisarsluther05grisuoft/grisarsluther05grisuoft_djvu.txt"]Chancellor Bruck in January of 1524[/url], when a prince was asking if it was permissible to take a second wife(due to certain circumstances I can't recall and don't want to skim the letter to see if Luther mentions it); Luther reluctantly said that civil law should have no recourse in the matter, because Scripture did not forbid it. Rather, that the man should examine Scripture and ask his conscience if it was in line with God's will. Edited February 28, 2012 by BG45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Revelation 3     7 "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write, 'These things says He who is holy, He who is true, "He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens":* 8 "I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it;* for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name.  9 Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie - indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.  10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.  11 Behold,* I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.  12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 ...okay? Why did you post that verse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 [quote name='BG45' timestamp='1330395525' post='2393855'] You know, even as a Baptist I never really got Sola Scriptura. I mean, Deuteronomy 4:2 commands that the word not be added to or taken away from, yet that would invalidate a lot of the Old Testament and the entirety of the New Testament. 2 Timothy 3:16 likewise tells us that all Scripture is God-breathed, but then we come to the argument that recurs in this thread over who decides what Scripture is, because there was still Scripture to be found in the Bible that was written after 2 Timothy. Then Paul says in 2 Thessalonians 2:15, "hold fast to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter", which implies there is tradition alongside the written word (which had yet to be compiled into the Bible). Paul also cites a letter we don't have in the Bible, in 1 Corinthians 5:9-11, talking about his previous letter about not associating with those who are sexually immoral. Let alone other, smaller things, like the word Trinity never appearing in the Bible, nor the word Bible. Or that Luther threw out entire books of the Bible in his Reformation. Luther even seems to acknowledge this problem of relying exclusively on Scripture in correspondence with [url="http://www.archive.org/stream/grisarsluther05grisuoft/grisarsluther05grisuoft_djvu.txt"]Chancellor Bruck in January of 1524[/url], when a prince was asking if it was permissible to take a second wife(due to certain circumstances I can't recall and don't want to skim the letter to see if Luther mentions it); Luther reluctantly said that civil law should have no recourse in the matter, because Scripture did not forbid it. Rather, that the man should examine Scripture and ask his conscience if it was in line with God's will. [/quote] Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.  9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;  10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. Colossians 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 LOL. That's it, Louie. You are officially a self-parody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 [quote name='Selah' timestamp='1330396906' post='2393870'] ...okay? Why did you post that verse? [/quote] Who has the key to the house of David? Who opens and shuts? Isaiah 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark of the Cross Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 [quote name='Selah' timestamp='1330393839' post='2393847'] In such a situation, to a Catholic, you would recieve baptism by desire. God's grace is truly amazing and you, by no fault of your own, being apart from the body of Christ, seek Him. Yes, you will find Him. But, if you are near and know of the Church, yet reject it, you simply condemn yourself, because you knowingly push the truth away from yourself. [/quote] Double props. Man is not an island! In such a situation he is in prison or the wilderness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 [quote name='Louie' timestamp='1330397457' post='2393878'] Who has the key to the house of David? Who opens and shuts? Isaiah 22 [/quote] Stop trolling. All you've been doing is posting Scripture verses when we ask you questions. Explain what you mean by posting them. What are you trying to get across? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 [quote name='Selah' timestamp='1330396960' post='2393874'] LOL. That's it, Louie. You are officially a self-parody. [/quote] If that's how you see me that's fine...was hoping you would take the time to read the whole scripture and not just what I posted...I guess not...so here you go     11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins* of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,  12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.  13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,  14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.  15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.     16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,  17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.  18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not* seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,  19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.     20 Therefore,* if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations -  21 "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,"  22 which all concern things which perish with the using - according to the commandments and doctrines of men?  23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 [quote name='Selah' timestamp='1330397840' post='2393881'] Stop trolling. All you've been doing is posting Scripture verses when we ask you questions. Explain what you mean by posting them. What are you trying to get across? [/quote] You said t Isaiah 22 was referring to Peter...I said Jesus...I put scripture that I thought might show you something but I was wrong...you obviously are not open to correction in what you say...it must be hard for you to always be right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 [quote]Isaiah 22 was referring to Peter...I said Jesus...I put scripture that I thought might show you something but I was wrong...you obviously are not open to correction in what you say...it must be hard for you to always be right [/quote] ...no I didn't. I don't believe in Papal supremacy. Why would I claim that verse is referring to St. Peter? Furthermore, I believe it's referring to Christ as well. So what's the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 [quote name='Selah' timestamp='1330398895' post='2393898'] ...no I didn't. I don't believe in Papal supremacy. Why would I claim that verse is referring to St. Peter? Furthermore, I believe it's referring to Christ as well. So what's the problem? [/quote] My mistake...it wasn't you...I am the one who is confused(concerning whom I am responding to)...many people are responding and I am not paying attention to who I am talking to...sorry.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 [quote name='Louie' timestamp='1330399358' post='2393908'] My mistake...it wasn't you...I am the one who is confused(concerning whom I am responding to)...many people are responding and I am not paying attention to who I am talking to...sorry.. [/quote] You're fine. I just didn't understand why you kept bring up that verse lol. But i see now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I wish that any one of you would come to a Friday night live in person rather than online...not judging this movement by its cover but its context...that which is within it...God is there and doing great and mighty things! It cannot be denied! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) I was the one who posted about Isaiah 22. If you look at the full context, you see it is referring not to the Davidic king, but to the steward. The steward was the one who held the keys in the name of the king. We see in Matthew 16 our King (Jesus) exercising His kingly authority in giving the keys to His steward, Peter. Ultimately the King has the authority of the keys, but He gives the keys to the steward, delegating that authority. It's another both/and situation, and not an either/or. Here's something answering it better than I: http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/dont-revelation-37-and-isaiah-22-point-to-christ-not-peter-as-having-the-keys-of-davi God bless Edited February 28, 2012 by Archaeology cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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