The Whosoevers: Murder Your Flesh

[Papist]

[quote name='Louie' timestamp='1330145037' post='2392719']
John 6:63 reads...It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
[/quote]

So you interpret this as Jesus Christ's flesh profits nothing. Yikes!!!!

[spoiler][img]http://hollywoodjesus.com/movie/passion2/05.jpeg[/img][/spoiler]

[Louie]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' timestamp='1330171609' post='2392805']
Yet it was Peter's statement about whether the Gentiles were accepted without following Jewish laws that was the final decision. St James was not head of the entire Church, but of Jerusalem, and gave instructions for his diocese.

Really, you have to do a lot of twisting with Scripture and history to claim that any other than Peter was the leader (this is not an attack on you, but a statement of fact). I once attended a service that claimed that John was the leader, and not Peter. Yet it is Peter whom Jesus renames and says He will use in that role of rock. It is Peter who is told three times to feed the sheep. And it is Peter who was seen, historically, as the first Pope and prime minister/steward of the Church (see Isaiah 22, I think, for the Davidic role of steward and how it is paralleled with Peter being given the keys).

I do not think you are intentionally twisting things, but I know Protestant groups and teachings must discredit Peter in order to show the Church wrong, and so I suspect that the Whosoevers also teach such things, though I could be wrong. Such a belief, though, does not match history or Scripture.

God bless
[/quote]
Isaiah 22
The key of the house of David
I will lay on his shoulder;
So he shall open, and no one shall shut;
And he shall shut, and no one shall open.
Isa 9:6
For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.] .

[Louie]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1330185491' post='2392845']

Yes and the next line says: (2 Peter 2: 1-3a) 1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there shall be among you lying teachers, who shall bring in sects of perdition, and deny the Lord who bought them: bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their riotousnesses, through whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you.


So we have to beware of people outside the Church claiming to preach the Word of God.
[/quote]

    12  But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption,  13  and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you,  14  having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children.  15  They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;  16  but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet. 
    17  These are wells without water, clouds* carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.* 
    18  For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped* from those who live in error.  19  While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.  20  For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.  21  For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.  22  But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit,"* and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire." 

[Louie]

[quote name='Selah' timestamp='1330185765' post='2392848']


You're batting a thousand. "Romanism"? Care to say N***** again? Because that's pretty much what that word amounts to to a Catholic, as offensive as a racial slur.

That said, the Fathers were not always unanimous. The Catholic Church follows the Sacred Tradition of the Fathers, the Ecumenical Councils, the Sacred Scriptures, and follows what has been followed since the Church was founded; the same can be said of the Orthodox Church, as both claim apostolic succession. Of course, I would argue that the Church of Rome should come back to the Orthodox Church and rejoin the Pentarchy, but that doesn't take away the fact that they still claim succession from St. Peter.

But I'm going too deep right now, I don't want to confuse you any more than you already are (yes, you are the one who is confused, not me).
[/quote]

I'm not confused...I think you have put yourself on to such a high post you cannot see the simplicity of the gospel message...putting too much importance on the Roman catholic church rather than the message of the cross...which leads to salvation...


    11  I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.  12  Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness! 
    13  For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,  14  if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them.  15  For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 
    16  For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.  17  And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,  18  do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. 
    19  You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in."  20  Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.  21  For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.  22  Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness,* if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.  23  And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.  24  For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? 
    25  For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.  
    26  And so all Israel will be saved,* as it is written:
"The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; 
    27  For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins."* 
    28  Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.  29  For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.  30  For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,  31  even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.  32  For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. 
    33  Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out! 
    34  "For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has become His counselor?"* 
    35  "Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?"* 
    36  For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen. 

Romans 11

[Louie]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1330200571' post='2392944']


You have not. I went through the whole other thread and there are several of my questions that went unanswered. You most popular reply is to simply quote scripture with comments that don't address my question, and we have not established how we know scripture is the inspired word of God, and why we should believe that the bible is the inspired word of God. You also said more than once that the Holy Spirit guides you, even when talking to a non-believer. You have not answered what happens when two people, whom the Holy Spirit is guiding, come up with interpretations that contradict each other. My below post, from the other thread, went unanswered,




And you answered this post,




With this,



What authority do you have to judge the spirit guiding me is not the Holy Spirit? And that the spirit guiding you is the Holy Spirit? I asked this before, which I have not received an answer.
[/quote]

You are taking my words out of context...I answered many of your questions...questions like I said that never end...as for my response about you being able to beat your wife...I responded that if the spirit told you that it was ok to beat your wife it's obvious to me and anyone else who can read that you do not have the Holy Spirit leading you to that conclusion but rather your flesh or some demonic spirit. The Holy Spirit will not lead you to beat your wife! Love your wife as Christ loved the church!

Edited February 28, 2012 by Louie

[Louie]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1330200571' post='2392944']


You have not. I went through the whole other thread and there are several of my questions that went unanswered. You most popular reply is to simply quote scripture with comments that don't address my question, and we have not established how we know scripture is the inspired word of God, and why we should believe that the bible is the inspired word of God. You also said more than once that the Holy Spirit guides you, even when talking to a non-believer. You have not answered what happens when two people, whom the Holy Spirit is guiding, come up with interpretations that contradict each other. My below post, from the other thread, went unanswered,




And you answered this post,




With this,



What authority do you have to judge the spirit guiding me is not the Holy Spirit? And that the spirit guiding you is the Holy Spirit? I asked this before, which I have not received an answer.
[/quote]

If you are going to use my responses don't pick and chose what to use...twisting words around...something which seems to be that you are good at...put the whole of which I was responding to...like your very ignorant interpretation of Ephesians 5:22...I use scripture as I said before as the authority...if you don't that's something that you need to search out for yourself...you can go by the traditions of men I will go by the word of God

[Selah]

[quote]I'm not confused...I think you have put yourself on to such a high post you cannot see the simplicity of the gospel message...putting too much importance on the Roman catholic church rather than the message of the cross...which leads to salvation...[/quote]

Listen...closely. I am not a Catholic. I am not a Catholic. I AM NOT A CATHOLIC.

At any rate...the Church gives the message of the cross. That's all she does. So yeah, you are the one who is confused. But most Protestants are.

[color=#282828].[/color]
[quote]
[color=#282828]you can go by the traditions of men I will go by the word of God [/color]

[/quote]

Sacred Scripture is a tradition as well. Furthermore, the Word of God is Jesus, not the Scriptures, though holy indeed they are. Yet you abuse them when you take them and misinterpret them for your own gain and by your own private interpretation, making them say what you want them to say.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Selah

[Louie]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1330201022' post='2392950']


So you interpret this as Jesus Christ's flesh profits nothing. Yikes!!!!

[spoiler][img]http://hollywoodjesus.com/movie/passion2/05.jpeg[/img][/spoiler]
[/quote]

Is this your interpretation of this verse? Did I say that His flesh profits nothing? Do not assume to know what I think or believe.

[Selah]

[quote] Do not assume to know what I think or believe. [/quote]

You say that, yet you make assumptions about what Catholics believe. Your double standards know no bounds.

[Louie]

[quote name='Selah' timestamp='1330388770' post='2393803']


Listen...closely. I am not a Catholic. I am not a Catholic. I AM NOT A CATHOLIC.

At any rate...the Church gives the message of the cross. That's all she does. So yeah, you are the one who is confused. But most Protestants are.

[color=#282828].[/color]


Sacred Scripture is a tradition as well. Furthermore, the Word of God is Jesus, not the Scriptures, though holy indeed they are. Yet you abuse them when you take them and misinterpret them for your own gain and by your own private interpretation, making them say what you want them to say.
[/quote]

Point of information...I am not a protestant.

So what are you then?

[Louie]

[quote name='Selah' timestamp='1330388770' post='2393803']


Listen...closely. I am not a Catholic. I am not a Catholic. I AM NOT A CATHOLIC.

At any rate...the Church gives the message of the cross. That's all she does. So yeah, you are the one who is confused. But most Protestants are.

[color=#282828].[/color]


Sacred Scripture is a tradition as well. Furthermore, the Word of God is Jesus, not the Scriptures, though holy indeed they are. Yet you abuse them when you take them and misinterpret them for your own gain and by your own private interpretation, making them say what you want them to say.
[/quote]

The same can be said to you...you all are the ones that are claiming that no one other than your leaders (whom ever they are) can truly interpret the bible...the message is simple that even a child can receive it...don't complicate things with your philosophy.

[Selah]

[quote][color=#282828]Point of information...I am not a protestant.[/color]
[/quote]

If you are not a Catholic or an Orthodox Christian, then you are a Protestant. Unless you are Anglican, as many Anglicans don't like to be called Protestants.






[quote]So what are you then? [/quote]

I am an Eastern Christian, an Orthodox hopeful, hoping to become part of the Antiochian Orthodox Church one day.

[Louie]

[quote name='Selah' timestamp='1330391757' post='2393816']


You say that, yet you make assumptions about what Catholics believe. Your double standards know no bounds.
[/quote]

I once was a catholic so yeah I can make that claim...also I am not speaking as if I know ones personal beliefs...only what their church teaches

Edited February 28, 2012 by Louie

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Louie' timestamp='1330387075' post='2393787']

Isaiah 22
The key of the house of David
I will lay on his shoulder;
So he shall open, and no one shall shut;
And he shall shut, and no one shall open.
Isa 9:6
For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.] .
[/quote]Isaiah 22 is referring to the steward, who acted in the king's stead. Jesus is the King. The Davidic kingdom had a steward. Jesus is the fulfillment of the David kingdom, so who is the steward? The answer is found in Matthew 16. Compare the verses from Isaiah 22 with 'at them 16:19: "19“I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven". Notice the parallel?

May God bless you.

[Selah]

[quote]The same can be said to you...you all are the ones that are claiming that no one other than your leaders (whom ever they are) can truly interpret the bible...the message is simple that even a child can receive it...don't complicate things with your philosophy. [/quote]

...My philosophy? Really? My leaders?

[quote]Acts 8:26-31[color=#000000]Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Go south to the road—the desert road—that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” [/color][sup]27[/sup][color=#000000] So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian[/color][sup][[url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+8%3A26-40&version=NIV#fen-NIV-27204a"]a[/url]][/sup][color=#000000] eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of the Kandake (which means “queen of the Ethiopians”). This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship, [/color][sup]28[/sup][color=#000000] and on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the Book of Isaiah the prophet. [/color][sup]29[/sup][color=#000000] The Spirit told Philip, “Go to that chariot and stay near it.”[/color][color=#000000]
[sup]30[/sup] Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked.[/color][color=#000000]
[sup]31[/sup] “How can I,” he said, “unless someone explains it to me?” So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.[/color]
[/quote]

The Sacred Scriptures aren't just something you read in leisure. to understand it, you need the guidance of the Church, who alone is able to interpret it. You don't just sit down and say, "hey, I think that's what it means!" You need guidance to understand it, otherwise, you lead yourself and others astray.