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Ed Normile

What The Hell Is The Matter With The U.s.c.c.b. ?

102 posts in this topic

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1328559508' post='2382504']
Me no understanding.
[/quote]The only way that Pelosi is "standing with her fellow Catholics" is if the bishops are the opposite of Catholics, i.e. "Anti-Catholics".
Winchester props this

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[quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1328559625' post='2382506']
The only way that Pelosi is "standing with her fellow Catholics" is if the bishops are the opposite of Catholics, i.e. "Anti-Catholics".
[/quote]

Which is not the case...meaning the fellow Catholics she is referring to don't exist. Got it.

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[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1328559924' post='2382518']
Which is not the case...meaning the fellow Catholics she is referring to don't exist. Got it.
[/quote];) I'm not the biggest fan of her.

As an aside, she's also not a good public speaker, period. I think I've probably posted that before! ...

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[quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1328560015' post='2382522']
;) I'm not the biggest fan of her.

As an aside, she's also not a good public speaker, period. I think I've probably posted that before! ...
[/quote]

She's not. She can't speak outside a memorized script.

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Amppax stated, "there is no candidate we have a moral obligation to vote for" I wonder if he feels the opposite is true,, is there any candidate we have a moral obligation to not vote for? Nancy Pelosi comes to mind with her promise to join with the President in his stance against the Roman Catholic Church policies, she also stated she was acting upon the wishes of her fellow catholics who support him. It was a fact that 52% of catholics voted for Obama, despite his views on abortion, euthanasia, homosexuality etc. Perhaps a little guidance of his stances on the issues would have changed that sad statistic.

This thread has strayed from my original point, maybe as someone posted here earlier the Bishops were naive , but this plan was laid out from the very beginning of his Presidential run.

Another posted here that advising who to vote for from the pulpit removes tax exempt status? Where is that coming from, we have had in the past Rev. Billy Graham publicly back candidates, Rev. Wright extolled the virtues of Obama until he was told to shut up as he was hurtingObama politically, did these ministries lose their tax exempt status?

I was in a church when a priest during the homily opined that " Obama would be the best choice for President as he has promised national healthcare", I directly asked him after mass if he knew about the abortion and euthanasia mandates in the healthcare package being touted at that time by Senator Obama, yes he had it publicly available at that time as I wrote earlier it was largely copied from Mitt Romney's healthcare plan, and the priest told me " sometimes the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" so I asked him if Jesus would accept a plan that allows for abortion,, and he mumbled something like, Jesus isn't around now, as he briskly strode away from me.


I was not attacking the Bishops, but we are supposed to point out error, as good catholics should do.

ed Edited by Ed Normile

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Yes, there are candidates we are morally obligated not to vote for. Insert canned spiel we all know about "indirect cooperation with evil" here.

However, that doesn't mean we are morally obliged to vote FOR a certain candidate. Some here would argue that we're not obliged to vote at all.

Put simply: We can vote for morally sound candidates if we want, or not vote at all if we believe that to be the best option, but we are never allowed to vote for an immoral candidate (unless all the candidates are immoral, but that's another huge can of worms.)

I hate election cycles.
LaPetiteSoeur, Amppax and Lil Red prop this

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[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1328574953' post='2382661']
Yes, there are candidates we are morally obligated not to vote for. Insert canned spiel we all know about "indirect cooperation with evil" here.

However, that doesn't mean we are morally obliged to vote FOR a certain candidate. Some here would argue that we're not obliged to vote at all.

Put simply: We can vote for morally sound candidates if we want, or not vote at all if we believe that to be the best option, but we are never allowed to vote for an immoral candidate (unless all the candidates are immoral, but that's another huge can of worms.)

I hate election cycles.
[/quote]

Some might argue that we're morally obliged not to vote. ^_^ I personally don't think that's a case, but I respect the argument.

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[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1328575135' post='2382662']
Some might argue that we're morally obliged not to vote. ^_^ I personally don't think that's a case, but I respect the argument.
[/quote]

Right, this is very true.

The only thing we [i]can't [/i]do is vote for an immoral candidate with full knowledge when there's another, more viable, option.

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[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1328575456' post='2382663']


Right, this is very true.

The only thing we [i]can't [/i]do is vote for an immoral candidate with full knowledge when there's another, more viable, option.
[/quote]A real, pressing issue in recent years has been how people define immoral candidates. I think people spend lots of time justifying poor choices out of political alliances over true ideals. :(
eagle_eye222001 and Basilisa Marie prop this

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[quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1328575645' post='2382667']
A real, pressing issue in recent years has been how people define immoral candidates. I think people spend lots of time justifying poor choices out of political alliances over true ideals. :(
[/quote]

Also correct. With enough rhetoric, anyone can justify anything. This is why I tend to avoid political discussions and keep my vote private.

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[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1328577651' post='2382688']
Also correct. With enough rhetoric, anyone can justify anything.[/quote]And that is exactly what happens in all religions, including the Catholic Church and why you all are asking what's up with the USCCB, dance liturgy at Masses with the Pope, crazy cardinals, buffoon bishops, predatory priests, and 52% of Catholics voting for a pro-abortion, anti-catholic presidential nominee.

And you're surprised why people love "Jesus" and hate "religion" in this age of unlimited and unqualified information? It's because they can hear justification for ANYTHING from their religious leaders, regardless of the fundamental right or wrong of it.

I'd give that post props if I was allowed.

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[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1328587833' post='2382875']
And that is exactly what happens in all religions, including the Catholic Church and why you all are asking what's up with the USCCB, dance liturgy at Masses with the Pope, crazy cardinals, buffoon bishops, predatory priests, and 52% of Catholics voting for a pro-abortion, anti-catholic presidential nominee.

And you're surprised why people love "Jesus" and hate "religion" in this age of unlimited and unqualified information? It's because they can hear justification for ANYTHING from their religious leaders, regardless of the fundamental right or wrong of it.

I'd give that post props if I was allowed.
[/quote]

I'm not quite sure what he's saying, but I think the Phish has a point.

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[quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1328475307' post='2381630']
I didn't want to bog that post down with too much information, but the reason the USCCB has come out more strongly against this mandate in the last few weeks to Cardinal-elect Dolan is because he and a number of other religious leaders met privately with the President. They were all confident that religious liberty would be respected by the current administration and that HHS would provide a conscience clause. Unfortunately, just after this meeting, the US bishops and other religious leaders in this country were effectively thrown under the bus.

The bishops have been speaking out against this mandate since last year. It's very easy to come up with a bunch of links to demonstrate their commitment in fighting this mandate.

If you want to see less "lame" announcements, check out the following links. Look particularly at Bishop Zubik's comments (he's the bishop of Pittsburgh, and normally very soft-spoken). These come from [url="http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=25591"]http://www.catholicv...dex.php?p=25591[/url]


[color=#585757][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]Items in [b]bold[/b] mean the statement was read at all diocesan Masses or included in all parish bulletins on Sunday:[/size][/font][/color]
[list]
[*][url="http://cardinalrogermahonyblogsla.blogspot.com/2012/01/federal-government-mandate-for.html"]Roger Cardinal Mahony[/url] of Los Angeles, CA (Emeritus)
[*]1. [url="http://blog.archny.org/?p=2182"]Cardinal-designate Timothy Dolan[/url] of New York City, NY
[*][b]2. [url="http://austindiocese.org/resources/general/4793.pdf"]Bishop Joe Vasquez[/url] of Austin, TX[/b]
[*][b]3. [url="http://stlouisreview.com/article/2012-01-23/pastoral-message"]Archbishop Robert Carlson[/url] of St. Louis, MO[/b]
[*][b]4. [url="http://www.diocesephoenix.org/onenewsstory.php?themonth=201201&story=1291115324"]Bishop Thomas Olmsted[/url] of Phoenix, AZ[/b]
[*]5. [url="http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/detroits-archbishop-vigneron-hhs-mandate-tramples-freedom-of-religion-conscience-137831483.html"]Archbishop Allen Vigneron[/url] of Detroit, MI
[*][b]6. [url="http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Nienstedt-Letter-HHS-Mandate-001.jpg"]Archbishop John Nienstedt[/url] of Saint Paul & Minneapolis, MN[/b]
[*][b]7. [url="http://www.thecompassnews.org/news/local/2937-bishop-ricken-calls-on-area-catholics-to-fight-hhs-ruling-on-religious-liberty.html"]Bishop David Ricken[/url] of Green Bay, WI[/b]
[*]8. [url="http://bishopsblog.dioceseofcheyenne.org/?p=1870"]Bishop Paul Etienne[/url] of Cheyenne, WY
[*][b]9. [url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/guest-voices/post/the-jesus-mandate-vs-obamas-mandate/2012/01/27/gIQAJ5jpVQ_blog.html"]Bishop William Lori[/url] of Bridgeport, CT[/b]
[*][b]10. [url="http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Scan-32.tiff"]Bishop Thomas Doran[/url] of Rockford, IL[/b]
[*][b]11. [url="http://www.catholicreview.org/article/home/cardinal-designate-o-brien-says-archdiocese-won-t-comply-with-unjust-hhs-law-3"]Cardinal-designate Edwin O’Brien[/url] of Baltimore, MD[/b]
[*][b]12. [url="http://www.dosafl.com/NewsBriefs.asp?ArticleID=960"]Bishop Felipe Estevez[/url] of Saint Augustine, FL[/b]
[*]13. [url="http://www.archden.org/index.cfm/ID/7518"]Bishop James Conley[/url] of Denver, CO
[*][b]14. [url="http://bishopdanielrjenky.blogspot.com/2012/01/blog-post.html"]Bishop Daniel Jenky[/url] of Peoria, IL[/b]
[*]15. [url="http://www.diopitt.org/hhs-delays-rule-contraceptive-coverage"]Bishop David Zubik[/url] of Pittsburgh, PA ([url="http://www.diopitt.org/bridging-gap/hhs-delays-rule-contraceptive-coverage"]Twice![/url])
[*][b]16. [url="http://www.scdioceseschools.org/about.cfm?subpage=1418097"]Bishop Walker Nickless[/url] of Sioux City, IA[/b]
[*][b]17. [url="http://www.arlingtondiocese.org/news.php?id=333"]Bishop Paul Loverde[/url] of Arlington, VA[/b]
[*]18. [url="http://www.livingourfaith.net/ThoughtfortheWeek.htm"]Archbishop Jerome Listecki[/url] of Milwaukee, WI
[*]29. [url="http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/01/26/3691131/vann-and-farrell-obama-administration.html?storylink=addthis#.TyLWgo_RbIk.facebook"]Bishop Kevin Vann[/url] of Fort Worth, TX
[*][b]20. [url="http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/01/26/3691131/vann-and-farrell-obama-administration.html?storylink=addthis#.TyLWgo_RbIk.facebook"]Bishop Kevin Farrell[/url] of Dallas, TX[/b]
[*][b]21. [url="http://www.thecatholictelegraph.com/a-letter-from-archbishop-dennis-m-schnurr-concerning-hhs-edict/5749"]Archbishop Dennis Schnurr[/url] of Cincinnati, OH[/b]
[*]22. [url="http://rcdok.org/news/?news_id=6462016576018701406"]Bishop William Medley[/url] of Owensboro, KY
[*][b]23. [url="http://biltrix.com/2012/01/30/letter-from-archbishop-wilton-gregory-on-the-u-s-hhs-announcement-last-week/"]Archbishop Wilton Gregory[/url] of Atlanta, GA[/b]
[*][b]24. [url="http://www.catholicnh.org/about/news/news-releases/obama-mandate/"]Bishop Peter Libasci[/url] of Manchester, NH[/b]
[*][b]25. [url="http://www.colsdioc.org/Portals/0/Departments/COM/Documents/Bp.%20Campbell%20letter%201.29.12.pdf"]Bishop Frederick Campbell[/url] of Columbus, OH[/b]
[*][b]26. [url="http://www.portlanddiocese.org/newsroom.php?nid=786"]Bishop Richard Malone[/url] of Portland, ME[/b]
[*]27. [url="http://www.dolr.org/bishop/hhsletter_012512.pdf"]Bishop Anthony Taylor[/url] of Little Rock, AR
[*][b]28. [url="http://d8n.me/X?r=cv"]Archbishop Paul Coakley[/url] of Oklahoma City, OK[/b]
[*]29. [url="http://www.dsj.org/about-us/bishops/bishops-statements/us-health-and-human-services-ruling"]Bishop Patrick McGrath[/url] of San Jose, CA
[*]30. [url="http://thetimes-tribune.com/news/scranton-bishop-decries-contraception-mandate-in-law-1.1263958?localLinksEnabled=false#axzz1kmB74cHz"]Bishop Joseph Bambera[/url] of Scranton, PA
[*][b]31. [url="http://www.miamiarch.org/ip.asp?op=Article_1212510574188"]Archbishop Thomas Wenski[/url] of Miami, FL[/b][b] (also apostolic administrator of [url="http://www.ptdiocese.org/"]Pensacola-Tallahasee, FL[/url])[/b]
[*]32. [url="http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/la-archbishop-calls-on-catholics-to-oppose-hhs-mandate"]Archbishop Jose Gomez[/url] of Los Angelas, CA
[*]33. [url="http://www.archgh.org/blog/main.asp?Tid=597&cat=Cardinal%20DiNardo&id=39"]Daniel Cardinal DiNardo[/url] of Galveston-Houston, TX
[*][b]34. [url="http://www.toledodiocese.org/"]Bishop Leonard Blair[/url] of Toledo, OH[/b]
[*][b]35. [url="http://t.co/ExcotOxb"]Donald Cardinal Wuerl[/url] of Washington, DC[/b]
[*]36. [url="http://www.amarillodiocese.org/index.cfm?load=news&newsarticle=300"]Bishop Patrick Zurek[/url] of Amarillo, TX
[*]37. [url="http://www.diocesefwsb.org/2012/01/national-vocations-awareness-week-takes-place-jan-9-14/"]Bishop Kevin Rhoades[/url] of Fort Wayne-South Bend, IN
[*][b]38. [url="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/817573/Bishop%20Callahan%20Sunday%20Mass%20Letter%20Jan%2029%2C%202012.pdf"]Bishop William Callahan[/url] of La Crosse, WI[/b]
[*]39. [url="http://www.rcan.org/images/2011hhs.pdf"]Archbishop John Myers[/url] of Newark, NJ
[*]40. [url="http://dioceseofgaylord.org/inside/_170/index.phtml?artid=617"]Bishop Bernard Hebda[/url] of Gaylord, MI
[*][b]41. [url="http://www.dioceseoftrenton.org/sslpage.aspx?pid=1129"]Bishop David O’Connell[/url] of Trenton, NJ[/b]
[*][b]42. [url="http://dioceseoflincoln.org/Documents/PDFs/BishopLetter_Jan29_2012.pdf"]Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz[/url] of Lincoln, NE[/b]
[*][b]43. [url="http://www.diocesecc.org/index.cfm?load=page&page=388"]Bishop Michael Mulvey[/url] of Corpus Christi, TX[/b]
[*][b]44. [url="http://www.milarch.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=dwJXKgOUJiIaG&b=6536793&ct=11609097&notoc=1"]Archbishop Timothy Broglio[/url] of Military Services, USA[/b]
[*][b]45. [url="http://www.pilotcatholicnews.com/upload/HHS_RULING.pdf"]Sean Cardinal O’Malley[/url] of Boston, MA[/b]
[*][b]46. [url="http://www.madisoncatholicherald.org/bishopsletters/2889-bp-letter.html"]Bishop Robert Morlino[/url] of Madison, WI[/b]
[*][b]47. [url="http://dioceseofcleveland.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1814%3Abishop-to-parishes-religious-freedom-threatened-time-to-act&catid=109%3Anews-of-the-diocese&Itemid=81"]Bishop Richard Lennon[/url] of Cleveland, OH[/b]
[*][b]48. [url="http://www.arch-no.org/news/archbishop+aymond+reacts+to+hhs+mandate"]Archbishop Gregory Aymond[/url] of New Orleans, LA[/b]
[*][b]49. [url="http://www.dioceseofmarquette.org/upcarticle.asp?upcID=2558"]Bishop Alexander Sample[/url] of Marquette, MI[/b]
[*][color=#000000]50. [url="http://www.dioceseofraleigh.org/docs/news/HHSDecisionLetter1-30-12.pdf"]Bishop Michael Burbidge[/url] of Raleigh, NC[/color]
[*]51. [url="http://www.dioceseofgrandrapids.org/Documents/Bishop%20Hurley%20statements/Bishop_Hurley_HHS_2012-01-23.pdf"]Bishop Walter Hurley[/url] of Grand Rapids, MI
[*][b]52. [url="http://ct.dio.org/bishops-column/text/41-new-hhs-ruling-violates-our-first-amendment-rights.html"]Bishop Thomas Paprocki[/url] of Springfield, IL[/b]
[*][b]53. [url="http://thedialog.org/?p=3042"]Bishop Francis Malooly[/url] of Wilmington, DE[/b]
[*][b]54. [url="http://news.charlottediocese.net/component/content/article/50-roknewspager-viewpoints/1361-bishop-peter-j-jugis-we-must-stand-up-and-protect-religious-freedom"]Bishop Peter Jugis[/url] of Charlotte, NC[/b]
[*][b]55. [url="http://www.richmonddiocese.org/2012/1/headlines/us-department-health-and-human-services-announcement"]Bishop Francis DiLorenzo[/url] of Richmond, VA[/b]
[*][b]56. [url="http://www.catholicanchor.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Letter-from-Archbishop-Roger-Schwietz.pdf"]Archbishop Roger Schwietz[/url] of Anchorage, AK[/b]
[*][b]57. [url="http://www.fargodiocese.org/Bishop/TheFederalAssaultOnReligiousFreedom.pdf"]Bishop Samuel Aquila[/url] of Fargo, ND[/b]
[*]58. [url="http://www.diocesetucson.org/Jan12memo.html#Jan2312"]Bishop Gerald Kicanas[/url] of Tuscon, AZ
[*]59. [url="http://clarionherald.org/clarion/index.php/news/latest-news/155-breaking-news/545-louisiana-bishops-vigorously-oppose-new-dhhs-mandates-on-insurance-coverage-for-contraception-sterilization"]Bishop Robert Muench[/url] of Baton Rouge, LA
[*]60. [url="http://clarionherald.org/clarion/index.php/news/latest-news/155-breaking-news/545-louisiana-bishops-vigorously-oppose-new-dhhs-mandates-on-insurance-coverage-for-contraception-sterilization"]Bishop Sam Jacobs[/url] of Houma-Thibodaux, LA
[*]61. [url="http://clarionherald.org/clarion/index.php/news/latest-news/155-breaking-news/545-louisiana-bishops-vigorously-oppose-new-dhhs-mandates-on-insurance-coverage-for-contraception-sterilization"]Bishop Michael Jarrell[/url] of Lafayette, LA
[*]62. [url="http://clarionherald.org/clarion/index.php/news/latest-news/155-breaking-news/545-louisiana-bishops-vigorously-oppose-new-dhhs-mandates-on-insurance-coverage-for-contraception-sterilization"]Bishop Ronald Herzog[/url] of Alexandria, LA
[*]63. [url="http://clarionherald.org/clarion/index.php/news/latest-news/155-breaking-news/545-louisiana-bishops-vigorously-oppose-new-dhhs-mandates-on-insurance-coverage-for-contraception-sterilization"]Bishop Glen Provost[/url] of Lake Charles, LA
[*]64. [url="http://clarionherald.org/clarion/index.php/news/latest-news/155-breaking-news/545-louisiana-bishops-vigorously-oppose-new-dhhs-mandates-on-insurance-coverage-for-contraception-sterilization"]Bishop Michael Duca[/url] of Shreveport, LA
[*]65. [url="http://dg-web.dcgary.org/youth/bishophealth/bishophealth.htm"]Bishop Dale Melczek[/url] of Gary, IN
[*]66. [url="http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/catholicdioceseofwichita.org/office-of-the-bishop/documents/doc_view/2298-letter-from-bishop-jackels-regarding-recent-hhs-ruling"]Bishop Michael Jackels[/url] of Wichita, KS
[*][b]67. [url="http://www.catholicdos.org/File/Pat_Wildenberg/Bishop_letter_to_be_read_at_Masses_1-26-2012.pdf"]Bishop Peter Christensen[/url] of Superior, WI[/b]
[*][b]68. [url="http://www.orlandodiocese.org/en/component/k2/item/9027-religious-freedom-at-risk"]Bishop John Noonan[/url] of Orlando, FL[/b]
[*][b]69. [url="http://www.diosav.org/news-HHS-2012"]Bishop Gregory Hartmayer[/url] of Savannah, GA[/b]
[*]70. [url="http://www.diocese-sacramento.org/PDFs/SotoHealthCoverageAnnouncementEnglish.pdf"]Bishop Jaime Soto[/url] of Sacramento, CA
[*][b]71. [url="http://catholicphilly.com/2012/01/news/nation-world/catholic-voters-urged-to-press-us-government-to-rescind-hhs-mandate/"]Archbishop Charles Chaput[/url] of Philadelphia, PA[/b]
[*][b]72. [url="http://www.catholicidaho.org/en/Documents/HHS%20Mandate%20Bishop%27s%20Letter%201-27-2012.pdf"]Bishop Michael Driscoll[/url] of Boise, ID[/b]
[*][b]73. [url="http://syracusediocese.org/assets/Uploads/pdfs/HHS-Ruling-letter2012.PDF"]Bishop Robert Cunningham[/url] of Syracuse, NY[/b]
[*][b]74. [url="http://bismarckdiocese.com/"]Bishop David Kagan[/url] of Bismarck, ND[/b]
[*]75. [url="http://www.micatholicconference.org/assets/files/updates/20120126-BradleyLetter.pdf"]Bishop Paul Bradley[/url] of Kalamazoo, MI
[*][b]76. [url="http://www.stelizabethslubbock.com/pdf/Bulletin_01-29-12-1.pdf"]Bishop Placido Rodriguez[/url] of Lubbock, TX[/b]
[*]77. [url="http://www.archdpdx.org/letter-on-HHS-conscience-by-Archbishop.pdf"]Archbishop John Vlazny[/url] of Portland, OR
[*][b]78. [url="http://www.hbgdiocese.org/Admin/Uploads/Bishop/Bishop%20McFadden/Documents/Letters/Letter%20to%20Parishes%20on%20HHS%20decision%20January%202012%20(2).pdf"]Bishop Joseph McFadden[/url] of Harrisburg, PA[/b]
[*]79. [url="http://www.licatholic.org/bishops-column/faith-new-works-6"]Bishop William Murphy[/url] of Rockville Center, NY
[*]80. [url="http://www.diocs.org/Home.aspx"]Bishop Michael Sheridan[/url] of Colorado Springs, CO
[*]81. [url="http://www.diospringfield.org/about/index.html"]Bishop Timothy McDonnell[/url] of Springfield, MA
[*][b]82. [url="http://nativitycatholicchurch.org/userfiles/files/LetterFromTheBishop.pdf"]Bishop Robert Lynch[/url] of St. Petersburg, FL[/b]
[*]83. [url="http://www.archdioceseofhartford.org/"]Archbishop Henry Mansell[/url] of Hartford, CT
[*]84. [url="http://www.archdiocesesantafe.org/ABSheehan/ABSMessages/12.01.30.HHSContraception.pdf"]Archbishop Michael Sheehan[/url] of Santa Fe, NM
[*]85. [url="http://www.rapidcitydiocese.org/Home/Documents/HSS%20Ruling%20Letter.pdf"]Bishop Robert Gruss[/url] of Rapid City, SD
[*][b]86. [url="http://www.diocesepb.org/acrobat_files/2012/BishopBarbaritoltr_HHS_Jan2012.pdf"]Bishop Gerald Barbarito[/url] of Palm Beach, FL[/b]
[*]87. [url="http://www.norwichdiocese.org/news/?select=508"]Bishop Michael Cote[/url] of Norwich, CT
[*]88. [url="http://blessedjpiiparish.org/BishopKmiec.aspx"]Bishop Edward Kmiec[/url] of Buffalo, NY
[*]89. [url="http://www.archkck.org/document.doc?id=1130"]Archbishop Joseph Naumann[/url] of Kansas City, KS
[*][b]90. [url="http://www.archlou.org/letter-to-the-faithful-regarding-religious-liberty-and-hhs-regulations/"]Archbishop Joseph Kurtz[/url] of Louisville, KY[/b]
[*]91. [url="http://www.covingtondiocese.org/"]Bishop Roger Foys[/url] of Covington, KY
[*]92. [url="http://www.dnu.org/documents/HHSRuling.pdf"]Bishop John LeVoir[/url] of New Ulm, MN
[*]93. [url="http://sbdiocese.blogspot.com/2012/02/hhs-decision-stifles-religious-freedom.html"]Bishop Gerald Barnes[/url] of San Bernadino, CA
[*]94. [url="http://northcountrycatholic.org/Articles/2012/2_1HHS.html"]Bishop Terry LaValley[/url] of Ogdensburg, NY
[*]95. [url="http://www.vermontcatholic.org/files/537/Pastoral%20Healthcare%202012.pdf"]Bishop Salvatore Matano[/url] of Burlington, VT
[*][b]96. [url="http://www.seattlearchdiocese.org/Progress/ProgressThree.aspx"]Archbishop Peter Sartain[/url] of Seattle, WA[/b]
[*][b]97. [url="http://www.davenportdiocese.org/comm/commlib/HHS%20Mandate%20Bp%20Ltr%200112%20.pdf"]Bishop Martin Amos[/url] of Davenport, IA[/b]
[*][b]98. [url="http://www.archomaha.org/admin-services/archbishop.html"]Archbishop George Lucas[/url] of Omaha, NE[/b]
[*][b][b]99. [url="http://www.dioceseofjuneau.org/core/files/dioceseofjuneau/uploads/files/DioceseofJuneau/Bishop/BpBurnsHHSLetter-read-at-all-%20parishes.pdf"]Bishop Edward Burns[/url] of Juneau, AK[/b][/b]
[*][b][b]100. [url="https://docs.google.com/a/cascwinona.org/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=Y2FzY3dpbm9uYS5vcmd8YnVsbGV0aW58Z3g6NTQyMWJlMDE2OTU2MWU0ZQ"]Bishop John Quinn[/url] on Winona, MN[/b][/b]
[*][b][b]101. [url="https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.1&thid=1353108036e17e02&mt=application/pdf&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3D63ea6aad9e%26view%3Datt%26th%3D1353108036e17e02%26attid%3D0.1%26disp%3Dsafe%26zw&sig=AHIEtbRm40WwWksu1hzbx-UVdlGGWnPlfw&pli=1"]Bishop Joseph Cistone[/url] of Saginaw, MI[/b][/b]
[*][b][b][b]102. [url="http://www.diojeffcity.org/Home%20Page/Bishop%20Article.html"]Bishop John Gaydos[/url] of Jefferson City, MO[/b][/b][/b]
[*][b][b]103. [url="http://www.dioceseofjoliet.org/"]Bishop Daniel Conlon[/url] of Joliet, IL[/b][/b]
[*][b][b]104. [url="http://www.themiscellany.org/index.php/news/3804-speak-out-against-mandated-coverage-of-sterilzation-and-contraceptives-bishop-says"]Bishop Robert Guglielmone[/url] of Charleston, SC[/b][/b]
[*][b]105. [url="http://library.constantcontact.com/download/get/file/1103469569620-65/HHS+Mandate+Bulletin+Insert+-+Update.pdf"]Bishop Frank Dewane[/url] of Venice, FL[/b]
[*]106. [url="http://www.dmdiocese.org/bishop-pates-statements.cfm"]Bishop Richard Pates[/url] of Des Moines, IA
[*][b]107. [url="http://www.worcesterdiocese.org/bishop/HHSLetter/tabid/1295/Default.aspx"]Bishop Robert McManus[/url] of Worcester, MA[/b]
[*]108. [url="http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/ToPriestsHHSlettertofaithfulENGLISH012712.pdf"]Bishop James Tamayo[/url] of Laredo, TX
[*][b]109. [url="http://www.parma.org/"]Bishop John Kudrick[/url], Eparchy of Parma, OH[/b]
[*]110. [url="http://www.cathedral-church.org/hhs-ruling.pdf"]Bishop John Barres[/url] of Allentown, PA
[*]111. [url="http://www.cdlex.org/index.cfm"]Bishop Ronald Gainer[/url] of Lexington, KY (better link needed)
[*]112. [url="http://www.dioceseofgreensburg.org/Pages/HHSstatement.aspx"]Bishop Lawrence Brandt[/url] of Greensburg, PA
[*]113. [url="http://www.yakimadiocese.org/123-archbishop-dolan-article-contraception-mandate"]Bishop Joseph Tyson[/url] of Yakima, WA
[*]114. [url="http://saintanneslo.com/wordpress/bulletins/2012/01-29-12.pdf"]Bishop Gerald Dino[/url], Eparchy of Phoenix, AZ
[*][b]115. [url="http://doy.org/files/Scroller/BishopLetter.pdf"]Bishop George Murry[/url] of Youngstown, OH[/b]
[*][b]116. [url="http://www.stsophiaukrainian.cc/resources/wewillnotcomply/"]Bishop Richard Seminack[/url], Eparchy of Chicago, IL[/b]
[*][b]117. [url="http://www.dioceseoflansing.org/"]Bishop Earl Boyea[/url] of Lansing, MI[/b]
[*][b]118. [url="http://rcbo.org/component/content/article/3/530-bishop-brown-speaks-out-on-hhs-mandate.html"]Bishop Tod Brown[/url] of Orange, CA[/b]
[*][b]119. [url="http://www.dioscg.org/"]Bishop James Johnston[/url] of Springfield-Cape Girardeau, MO[/b]
[*][b]120. [url="http://www.dioceseofgallup.org/index.php"]Bishop James Wall[/url] of Gallup, NM (better link needed)[/b]
[*]121. [url="http://www.patersondiocese.org/page.cfm?Web_ID=4487"]Bishop Arthur Serratelli[/url] of Paterson, NJ
[*]122. [url="http://www.dor.org/tasks/sites/home/assets/File/Bishop%20Clark%20letter.pdf"]Bishop Matthew Clark[/url] of Rochester, NY
[*]123. [url="http://www.dioceseofpueblo.org/images/stories/bishop/healthcare.pdf"]Bishop Fernando Isern[/url] of Pueblo, CO
[*][b]124. [url="http://dioknox.org/home/bishops-vow-to-fight-hhs-edict/"]Bishop Richard Stika[/url] of Knoxville, TN[/b]
[*]125. [url="http://www.dwc.org/component/content/article/189-latest-news/1119-bishop-bransfield-releases-statement-on-conscience-protection-in-health-care-and-religious-liberty.html"]Bishop Michael Bransfield[/url] of Wheeling-Charleston, WV
[*]126. [url="http://www.arch.pvt.k12.ia.us/Administration/archmessages/HHS-HealthMandateLetter.pdf"]Archbishop Jerome Hanus[/url] of Dubuque, IA
[*]127. [url="http://www.diocese-sdiego.org/"]Bishop Robert Brom[/url] of San Diego, CA (forthcoming, I am told)
[*]128. [url="http://dioceseofnashville.com/index.htm"]Bishop David Choby[/url] of Nashville, TN (forthcoming, I am told)
[*]129. [url="http://www.elpasodiocese.org/documents/letterToParishes012512.pdf"]Bishop Armando Ochoa[/url] of Fresno, CA (also apostolic administrator of [url="http://www.elpasodiocese.org/documents/letterToParishes012512.pdf"]El Paso, TX[/url])
[*]130. [url="http://www.eparchyofpassaic.com/"]Archbishop-elect William Skurla[/url], Eparchy of Pittsburgh (better link needed)
[*]131. [url="http://www.sfcatholic.org/Bishop/documents/HHS%20Statement_Feb%202012.pdf"]Bishop Paul Swain[/url] of Sioux Falls, SD
[*]132. [url="http://www.camdendiocese.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2149:bishop-galantes-letter-on-healthcare-mandate&catid=33:press-releases-a-latest-news&Itemid=1203"]Bishop Joseph Galante[/url] of Camden, NJ
[*]133. [url="http://www.fallriverdiocese.org/ltr%20on%20HHS%20ruling.pdf"]Bishop George Coleman[/url] of Fall River, MA
[*][b]134. [url="http://freepdfhosting.com/d7caf7b7fb.pdf"]Archbishop Gustavo Garcia-Siller[/url] of San Antonio, TX[/b]
[*][i][url="http://home.catholicweb.com/diosteub/files/HHS_ruling_2012__2_.pdf"]Monsignor Kurt Kemo[/url] (apostolic administrator) of Steubenville, OH[/i]
[*][i][url="http://salinadiocese.org/"]Father Barry Brinkman[/url] (apostolic administrator) of Salina, KS[/i]
[*]135. [url="http://www.cdom.org/wtc/stories/wtcstory3.htm"]Bishop Terry Steib[/url] of Memphis, TN
[*][i][url="http://www.dioceseofbaker.org/PRO_LIFE_PDF_FILES/HHSLetterBpSkylstad01292012.English.pdf"]Bishop William Skystad[/url] (apostolic administrator) of Baker, OR[/i]
[*]136. [url="http://www.diocese-kcsj.org/_docs/Conscience-Protection-01-31-2012.pdf"]Bishop Robert Finn[/url] of Kansas City-Saint Joseph, MO
[*]137. [url="http://www.stocktondiocese.org/Our-Bishop/Bishop-s-Statements/Health-and-Human-Services-Statement-02-2012"]Bishop Stephen Blaire[/url] of Stockton, CA
[*]138. [url="http://www.diocesehelena.org/"]Bishop George Thomas[/url] of Helena, MT (forthcoming)
[*]139. [url="http://www.diobelle.org/"]Bishop Edward Braxton[/url] of Belleville, IL (forthcoming)
[*]140. [url="http://www.thecatholicmoment.org/columns/2012/bishops%20column%20020512.html"]Bishop Timothy Doherty[/url] of Lafayette, IN
[*][b]141. [url="http://www.dioceseofgfb.org/userfiles/file/ParishionerLtr%20HHS%20Rule.pdf"]Bishop Michael Warfel[/url] of Great Falls-Billings, MT[/b]
[*][b]142. [url="http://www.txcatholic.org/index.php/news/1416-tcc-speaks-our-against-hhs-rule-calls-for-action"]Bishop Michael Pfeifer[/url] of San Angelo, TX[/b]
[*][url="http://www.archny.org/news-events/news-press-releases/index.cfm?i=23259"]Edward Cardinal Egan[/url] of New York City, NY (Emeritus)
[*]143. [url="http://www.gidiocese.org/home.aspx"]Bishop William Dendinger[/url] of Grand Island, NE (forthcoming)
[*]144. [url="http://www.thericatholic.com/news/detail.html?sub_id=4723"]Bishop Thomas Tobin[/url] of Providence, RI
[*]145. [url="http://dioceseofbmt.org/"]Bishop Curtis Guillory[/url] of Beaumont, TX (forthcoming)
[*]146. [url="http://www.cdob.org/frontpage-news-items/397-urgent-action-alert"]Bishop Daniel Flores[/url] of Brownsville, TX
[*]147. [url="http://dioceseoftulsa.org/article.asp?nID=4429"]Bishop Edward Slattery[/url] of Tulsa, OK
[*]148. [url="http://www.dioceseaj.org/node/507"]Bishop Mark Bartchak[/url] of Altoona-Johnstown, PA
[*]149. [url="http://www.utahcatholicdiocese.org/index.jsp"]Bishop John Wester[/url] of Salt Lake City, ID
[*]150. [url="https://dioceseofreno.org/userpages/index.aspx"]Bishop Joseph Pepe[/url] of Los Vegas, NV
[*]151. [url="https://dioceseofreno.org/userpages/index.aspx"]Bishop Randolph Cavo[/url] of Reno, NV
[*][i][url="http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/HHS-Response_1.pdf"]Bishop Alvaro Corrada[/url] (apostolic administrator) of Tyler, TX[/i]
[*]152. [url="http://www.catholicvote.org/discuss/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/HHS-Rule-Response-from-Bishop-DiMarzio-20100202.pdf"]Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio[/url] of Brooklyn, NY
[*]153. [url="http://www.themessageonline.org/local/2012/02-03/mandate.html"]Bishop Charles Thompson[/url] of Evansville, IN
[*]
[/list]
[/quote]

Also, the USCCB IS fighting the new HHS Mandate fiercly. Go Catholics! Here's an article that should do any Catholic proud:
[url="http://www.sacbee.com/2012/02/04/4239187/usccb-white-house-misrepresents.html"]http://www.sacbee.com/2012/02/04/4239187/usccb-white-house-misrepresents.html[/url]

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Apparently saying that there are non-negotiable issues doesn't imply that voting for certain candidates would be immoral. :idontknow:

Also, I know about the voter pamphlet, I was specifically talking at a parish level, because I've seen parishes where people truly don't know about any of those things. That's the level on which we've failed, imho.
eagle_eye222001, LaPetiteSoeur and Lil Red prop this

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[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1328471995' post='2381601']
Yup, thats what I asked, what the hell is the matter with the U.S.C.C.B., the United States Council of Catholic Bishops, maybe I should have asked "What from hell is wrong with the U.S.C.C.B.?". I am sure those of us who went to mass today heard the lame announcement read from the U.S.C.C.B regarding the Obama-care policy of pro-death and that we as catholics and even catholics orgs such as hospitals and catholic charitable orgs will be required to pay into this policy of death or suffer penalties from the government if we refuse.

Did this fact just suddenly come to their attention, did they miss the fact that Obama promised this in his presidential campaign? This announcement at this juncture is the moral equivalent of spitting on a raging forest fire, I guess it makes them feel like at least they tried no matter how poor or useless the effort really was. The announcement was made at the end of mass while many were scurrying out the door to be first in line for the luncheon buffet, it should have been the homily during the last presidential election each mass.

Did St. John the Baptist wait until after he was beheaded to call Herod out? If the U.S.C.C.B. really wants to help the cause of pro-life they should have a body who studies these candidates and advises catholics during the homily that if they wanted to vote for a candidate that most closely matches the Roman Catholic Church viewpoints on relative issues than "Candidate X" is the one who, you as a catholic faithful, have a moral obligation to vote for. Yeah right, that will happen, as soon as they weigh the possibility of losing some monies in the collection box it will be forgotten.

ed
[/quote]

Ed,
Could it be the millions of Catholic's that voted for Obama (and probably will again) that is the problem here, rather than our Bishops? Just saying

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[quote name='add' timestamp='1328645533' post='2383147']
Ed,
Could it be the millions of Catholic's that voted for Obama (and probably will again) that is the problem here, rather than our Bishops? Just saying
[/quote]

Chicken or the egg kind of thing, I think. Catechesis is in shambles because seminaries have been weak for generations because bishops have been lax in ensuring a vital priesthood because of modernist tendencies in the modern layperson because catechesis is bad because the seminaries have been enabling priests with modernist tendencies...
Amppax props this

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[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1328588033' post='2382878']
I'm not quite sure what he's saying, but I think the Phish has a point.
[/quote]Phishy maybe, but not swishy...
In other words, people get alot of information from alot of sources and it's impossible to really know how valid or accurate any of it is. When you consider that supposedly 'athorative voices' in religion are rarely consistent, always debated and re-interpreted even within the religion, it's no surprise people have a low regard and lack of respect for clergy/religion who are telling the congregation what's right or wrong.

It's the same with politics. It's BS over-load and it makes conjecture/opinion just as valid as fact/principles.

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[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1328651279' post='2383205']
Phishy maybe, but not swishy...
In other words, people get alot of information from alot of sources and it's impossible to really know how valid or accurate any of it is. When you consider that supposedly 'athorative voices' in religion are rarely consistent, always debated and re-interpreted even within the religion, it's no surprise people have a low regard and lack of respect for clergy/religion who are telling the congregation what's right or wrong.

It's the same with politics. It's BS over-load and it makes conjecture/opinion just as valid as fact/principles.
[/quote]

Yeah, I can agree with that. We're experiencing a crisis of belief right now IMO because of the crisis of prayer we've been wading through since the 'liturgical reforms' started. I agree with those who say "Save the Liturgy, Save the World." They lex orandi has been compromised, so we shouldn't be surprised that the credendi followed in lockstep.

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[quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1328541296' post='2382328']
There is no candidate we have a moral obligation to vote for, that notion is laughable. What they should do is educate people on the non-negotiable issues, and pray that people are smart enough to make a logical choice when votiing. Which, in my experience, some parishes do well, others do poorly.
[/quote]

This. A thousand times yes.

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[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1328651430' post='2383207']
The[s]y[/s] lex orandi has been compromised, so we shouldn't be surprised that the credendi followed in lockstep.
[/quote]Fixed it.
So you're saying that the discordance since 1 AD is all about lack of prayer?

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