19 replies to this topic

[Delivery Boy]

Hey pham. Ok I'm not trying to argue or debate. I just have a hard time understanding how missing mass can be a mortal sin ? It seems one would be saved then by going to mass and not by grace through faith and not by works unless anyone should boast. Since if I miss mass that would send me to hell since its a mortal sin. I'm not agianst mass or trying to attack it or anything like that. Its just one area I have not been able to wrap my mind around and understand. If anyone feels like responding thanks. And I do understand the verse in James about faith being dead without works. I agree with that. I just have trouble understanding how missing mas can = hell. Cause again it then seems we would be saved by going to mass and not by grace through faith. Ok Godbless.

Edited by Delivery Boy, 24 February 2012 - 07:58 AM.

[homeschoolmom]

I think it has more to do with your reason for missing mass than actually missing. Is it because you're rebelious or disobedient? Is it because there's something you'd rather do that has become an idol? Missing for illness or something out of your control is not the same, of course.

[Delivery Boy]

Ok I get that. I don't get how it could be a mortal sin though for other reasons. Cause once it becomes a mortal sin then its something youre forced to do. So you may go to mass not out of love for God and fellowship but because its a mortal sin if you don't go. It then seems like you would be putting works before faith and grace. Not that its wrong ? I'm not even sure what all James says I just know the one verse about faith being dead without works. But then one could argue that there are many more works we can do as a christian then just going to mass. I guess I THINK going to mass should be encouraged but not be a mortal sin if one doesn't. I think that meshes way better with a gospel of grace. I know what I think though is croutons. Believe me I know that. lol

Edited by Delivery Boy, 24 February 2012 - 08:26 AM.

[Hubertus]

Mass is the highest form of prayer, and your most important spiritual nourishment. The Church commands us to go to Mass every Sunday because she knows that is the minimum we need to survive. I don't know about you, but I know that I surely wouldn't be able to lead a Christ-filled life if I didn't go to Mass at least once a week; in fact, I usually have to go on Wednesdays too in order to truly feel God's grace enough to resist some of the temptations I encounter.

Think of it as your mom or dad sitting you down and forcing you to eat your dinner. They know that if you don't eat consistently, you could die. It's the same way with the Mass. The Church just kind of cuts to the chase and says that missing in Mass in itself is a mortal sin; even if that weren't the case, it would lead to mortal sin down the road anyway.

At least, that's my understanding of it.

[Papist]

Yes what hsm said. It is the intentional missing mass.

If I can add. Don't see it as we have to go to mass, but rather we get to go to mass.

Check this article out, http://www.catholice...ion/re0111.html

[Lil Red]

the third commandment: Remember to keep holy the Lord's Day.

Do you think that the other commandments should not be "commandments" but merely suggestions?

[Delivery Boy]

Godbless Hubertus. Great answer. I like that and makes sense.

Edited by Delivery Boy, 24 February 2012 - 08:34 AM.

[Delivery Boy]

Yes what hsm said. It is the intentional missing mass.

If I can add. Don't see it as we have to go to mass, but rather we get to go to mass.

Check this article out, http://www.catholice...ion/re0111.html

I agree with what hsm said. And I don't see it as we have to go. I agree its a we get to go. Although I don't see how it becomes a matter of going to hell if we don't go. That's what I have a hard time coming to grips with. Because then it seems going to mass saves me andnot the grace that comes through faith. I will check out the link. Thank you ! Godbless pham !

[Delivery Boy]

the third commandment: Remember to keep holy the Lord's Day.

Do you think that the other commandments should not be "commandments" but merely suggestions?

That's a good point. I guess for me its still the if you don't go to mass you are in mortal sin and if you die you go to hell. Couldn't one keep the sabbath holy without going to mass ? I do think one should go though its just the mortal sin aspect to it that confuses me and doesn't make complete sense with a gospel of grace.

Edited by Delivery Boy, 24 February 2012 - 08:49 AM.

[the_rev]

If you are willing, the late John Paul II wrote an apostolic letter entitled Dies Domini: On Keeping the Lord's Day Holy. The letter emphasizes the reasons for why we should Keep the Lord's Day Holy, secondly, he does write about missing Mass, but a quick "ctl F" of the letter did not yield any result for mortal sin. To read it: http://www.vatican.v...-domini_en.html

I'd be inclined to say one could do their best to keep the Lord's day holy without going to Mass, but Catholicism is all about community. You cannot keep the Lord's day holy to the same degree if you were to celebrate in a community of faith. Secondly, Mass is the highest form of praise and honor to God, so not going to Mass, would deprive the Church of the grace it could receive. Although we are reminded in one of the Eucharistic prefaces, "You have no need of our praise, but our desire to praise you is itself a gift", our participation in the Eucharistic mystery is a participation in grace.

Also, I think we must keep in mind that in order for one to commit a grave or mortal sin, they must have full knowledge, free consent and it must be a grave matter. Since the Church has said missing Mass on Sunday is grave, then the other two conditions would need to be satisfied.

We cannot forget God's mercy and grace. If at the end of one's life they are truly repentant of their sins, we do not know the extent of God's mercy and justice. We must have hope in God's never-failing mercy for His people.

There are a few sections of the Catechism of the Catholic Church that addresses the Sunday obligation, specifically 2181-2182. Here is a link to the section on the Sabbath. http://www.scborrome...cc/p3s2c1a3.htm

2180 The precept of the Church specifies the law of the Lord more precisely: "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass."¹¹⁷ "The precept of participating in the Mass is satisfied by assistance at a Mass which is celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the holy day or on the evening of the preceding day."¹¹⁸

2181 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor.¹¹⁹ Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.

2182 Participation in the communal celebration of the Sunday Eucharist is a testimony of belonging and of being faithful to Christ and to his Church. The faithful give witness by this to their communion in faith and charity. Together they testify to God's holiness and their hope of salvation. They strengthen one another under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Edited by the_rev, 24 February 2012 - 09:14 AM.

[Lil Red]

That's a good point. I guess for me its still the if you don't go to mass you are in mortal sin and if you die you go to hell. Couldn't one keep the sabbath holy without going to mass ? I do think one should go though its just the mortal sin aspect to it that confuses me and doesn't make complete sense with a gospel of grace.

so there should be no punishments for violating God's commandments? God is merciful, yes; but He is also just.

If you regularly take the Lord's name in vain and are not repentant, should you not be punished for that? God freely gives His grace to us, most especially through the Sacraments, but we are free to reject it.

[Papist]

I agree with what hsm said. And I don't see it as we have to go. I agree its a we get to go. Although I don't see how it becomes a matter of going to hell if we don't go. That's what I have a hard time coming to grips with. Because then it seems going to mass saves me andnot the grace that comes through faith. I will check out the link. Thank you ! Godbless pham !

I think looking at what constitutes a mortal sin will help.

Basically, sin is a failure to love God and neighbor caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods. Sin turns us away from God’s love for us and wounds our human nature. Like the sin of Adam, sin is rooted in disobedience. It is a revolt against God, and thus is diametrically opposed to the obedience of Christ, which achieves our salvation (Phil. 2:6-9; CCC1849-50).


Mortal sin destroys the divine life (i.e., sanctifying grace) in the soul. One who commits a mortal sin needs “a new initiative of God’s mercy and a conversion of heart which is normally accomplished within the setting of the sacrament of reconciliation” (CCC 1856). In the absence of repentance and God’s mercy, mortal sin leads to the eternal death of hell (CCC 1861).

What constitutes a mortal sin? For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must be present:

(1) grave matter
(2) full knowledge of the evil of the act
(3) full consent of the will CCC1857

When we say that “missing Mass is a mortal sin,” we are not being fully accurate. What we are actually saying is that missing Mass is seriously wrong—that is, “grave matter.” As the Catechism affirms, “we can judge that an act in itself is a grave offense,” but “we must entrust judgment of persons [i.e., whether a specific act is a mortal sin] to the justice and mercy of God” (CCC 1861).

Edited by Papist, 24 February 2012 - 09:32 AM.

[Delivery Boy]

@ Rev thanks for all that. I'm gonna check the link. Godbless ! @ Lil Red More good points and I agree with them. I guess how this has all been on my mind is I have a friend wwho is mormon. I have been showing this friend how first off their religion is wrong on its view of God and the trinity. The 2nd is showing this person how easy they can become a christian by accepting Christ in their heart and receiving that grace that comes through faith. I believe in that 100 percent and think its that easy. I don't believe in once saved always saved. And being catholic I know more is expected of us because we have the full truth unlike protestants. But then when I think about it , it almost seems like its going to far to say one that misses mass falls into mortal sin and goes to hell. It then seems like going to mass saves me. Althoughhhhhh from reading your guys replies and some of the links I do see the other point of view. Also I understand being catholic and having the full truth more is expected of me then a protestant or non denomination christian.

Edited by Delivery Boy, 24 February 2012 - 09:38 AM.

[Lil Red]

amesome answer Papist!

Delivery Boy - perhaps a personal experience will help?

I have not gone to Mass on purpose before - with the full knowledge that missing Mass was grave matter, and I fully consented to missing Mass. I ignored the promptings of the Holy Spirit (and my guardian angel), and skipped Mass - just because I didn't want to go. (Note: It's easier to ignore the promptings of the Holy Spirit when you are already in a state of mortal sin. Harder when you are in a state of grace.) If I had died, then I would have been judged and punished for deliberately missing Mass because I deliberately rejected Him.

Now, before my reversion, I didn't know that it was a mortal sin for missing Mass. Thus, I was less culpable for my sin because I didn't have full knowledge. It was still sinful, but not a mortal sin.

Does all this help?

[Delivery Boy]

I think looking at what constitutes a mortal sin will help.

Basically, sin is a failure to love God and neighbor caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods. Sin turns us away from God’s love for us and wounds our human nature. Like the sin of Adam, sin is rooted in disobedience. It is a revolt against God, and thus is diametrically opposed to the obedience of Christ, which achieves our salvation (Phil. 2:6-9; CCC1849-50).


Mortal sin destroys the divine life (i.e., sanctifying grace) in the soul. One who commits a mortal sin needs “a new initiative of God’s mercy and a conversion of heart which is normally accomplished within the setting of the sacrament of reconciliation” (CCC 1856). In the absence of repentance and God’s mercy, mortal sin leads to the eternal death of hell (CCC 1861).

What constitutes a mortal sin? For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must be present:

(1) grave matter
(2) full knowledge of the evil of the act
(3) full consent of the will CCC1857

When we say that “missing Mass is a mortal sin,” we are not being fully accurate. What we are actually saying is that missing Mass is seriously wrong—that is, “grave matter.” As the Catechism affirms, “we can judge that an act in itself is a grave offense,” but “we must entrust judgment of persons [i.e., whether a specific act is a mortal sin] to the justice and mercy of God” (CCC 1861).

Ok really good post and that made sense. You guys are really great. Godbless you all. I talk to a lot of non catholics on facebook and argue and debate with them. And some of their arguments get into my head sometimes. Its good to hear the phams opinon on things. Thanks again.

Edited by Delivery Boy, 24 February 2012 - 09:48 AM.

[Delivery Boy]

amesome answer Papist!

Delivery Boy - perhaps a personal experience will help?

I have not gone to Mass on purpose before - with the full knowledge that missing Mass was grave matter, and I fully consented to missing Mass. I ignored the promptings of the Holy Spirit (and my guardian angel), and skipped Mass - just because I didn't want to go. (Note: It's easier to ignore the promptings of the Holy Spirit when you are already in a state of mortal sin. Harder when you are in a state of grace.) If I had died, then I would have been judged and punished for deliberately missing Mass because I deliberately rejected Him.

Now, before my reversion, I didn't know that it was a mortal sin for missing Mass. Thus, I was less culpable for my sin because I didn't have full knowledge. It was still sinful, but not a mortal sin.

Does all this help?

Yes that makes perfect sense and I also have been in that situation MANY times. lol As the Good Lord knows. But ya what you says makes sense. Let me ask you this. Say you WOULD have died. Do you actually believe you would have went to hell ? I have a really hard time thinking you would. And its pry really wrong I think that way but I don't know. Its what I think.

[Hubertus]

Yes that makes perfect sense and I also have been in that situation MANY times. lol As the Good Lord knows. But ya what you says makes sense. Let me ask you this. Say you WOULD have died. Do you actually believe you would have went to hell ? I have a really hard time thinking you would. And its pry really wrong I think that way but I don't know. Its what I think.

Sometimes it's hard to understand that: that we could be fine one minute, and then in a state of sin the next, and then something could suddenly happen and kill us and we would be eternally doomed to damnation because of that one decision in the last minute.

But it's important to remember that God, in His omniscience, knows our hearts better than we do, past, present, and future. So no matter when we die, it is completely just and according to His plan, and we'll have had the proper amount of time as determined by our Creator to make that important decision between Heaven and Hell. To think that we could survive through such an infinite offense against an infinite being, as mortal sin is, and still repent and return to God's favor is the amazing part.

[Lil Red]

Yes that makes perfect sense and I also have been in that situation MANY times. lol As the Good Lord knows. But ya what you says makes sense. Let me ask you this. Say you WOULD have died. Do you actually believe you would have went to hell ? I have a really hard time thinking you would. And its pry really wrong I think that way but I don't know. Its what I think.

I don't know. But if I did go to hell, it would have been because of my own actions in rejecting God.

Delivery Boy, I have had a sudden moment (after reflecting on a Bible passage) of the very real possibility of going to hell. Yes, we should all do things out of love for God - but guess what, we're all not going to be like that. We also need to know the very real possibility of rejecting Him and His love and going to hell. If I might perhaps let you dwell on the same Bible passage that made it real to me: (Romans 2:1-16)

1 Therefore you have no excuse, O man, whoever you are, when you judge another; for in passing judgment upon him you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, are doing the very same things. 2 We know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who do such things. 3 Do you suppose, O man, that when you judge those who do such things and yet do them yourself, you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you presume upon the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience? Do you not know that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? 5 But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 For he will render to every man according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for every one who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality. 12 All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14 When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

Everyone must appear to render an account of their thoughts, words and actions. Everything you've done will be subject to rigid scrutiny.

[fides' Jack]

I think the original question here confuses two very fundamental subjects: salvation and damnation. It's true that works alone are not enough to save you, but they can sure be enough to beaver dam you to hell for all eternity.

[Norseman82]

Hey pham. Ok I'm not trying to argue or debate. I just have a hard time understanding how missing mass can be a mortal sin ? It seems one would be saved then by going to mass and not by grace through faith and not by works unless anyone should boast. Since if I miss mass that would send me to hell since its a mortal sin. I'm not agianst mass or trying to attack it or anything like that. Its just one area I have not been able to wrap my mind around and understand. If anyone feels like responding thanks. And I do understand the verse in James about faith being dead without works. I agree with that. I just have trouble understanding how missing mas can = hell. Cause again it then seems we would be saved by going to mass and not by grace through faith. Ok Godbless.

Ok I get that. I don't get how it could be a mortal sin though for other reasons. Cause once it becomes a mortal sin then its something youre forced to do. So you may go to mass not out of love for God and fellowship but because its a mortal sin if you don't go. It then seems like you would be putting works before faith and grace. Not that its wrong ? I'm not even sure what all James says I just know the one verse about faith being dead without works. But then one could argue that there are many more works we can do as a christian then just going to mass. I guess I THINK going to mass should be encouraged but not be a mortal sin if one doesn't. I think that meshes way better with a gospel of grace. I know what I think though is croutons. Believe me I know that. lol

I agree with what hsm said. And I don't see it as we have to go. I agree its a we get to go. Although I don't see how it becomes a matter of going to hell if we don't go. That's what I have a hard time coming to grips with. Because then it seems going to mass saves me andnot the grace that comes through faith. I will check out the link. Thank you ! Godbless pham !

Ok really good post and that made sense. You guys are really great. Godbless you all. I talk to a lot of non catholics on facebook and argue and debate with them. And some of their arguments get into my head sometimes. Its good to hear the phams opinon on things. Thanks again.

Yes, be careful, the non-Catholic viewpoint does seem to be slipping past your defenses and into your head. fides Jack's has a good simple explanation:

I think the original question here confuses two very fundamental subjects: salvation and damnation. It's true that works alone are not enough to save you, but they can sure be enough to beaver dam you to hell for all eternity.