20 replies to this topic

[Ice_nine]

I know it's terrible. I signed up for a weekly hour of adoration (I missed las week tho I wasn't feeling well so sad), and there are moments when the reality of the Eucharist hits me, which is beautiful, but overall it can just seem so . . . absurd? I'm not trying to be blasphemous. It's just hard. I don't like that it's hard, but it just seems so silly that God would come to us under the appearance of bread and wine. ANd yes it's a little absurd that God would take on a human body, but to be something which appears to be lifeless and inanimate, it's confusing.

I'd really like a good book to read about the Eucharist, just how to understand and appreciate the mystery thereof you know? I don't want a simple thing tho. I'd prefer something that's challenging and rich, even if it will take a long time to read. I'd really appreciate suggestions on that end and more practical personal suggestions as well.

[FuturePriest387]

I know it's terrible. I signed up for a weekly hour of adoration (I missed las week tho I wasn't feeling well so sad), and there are moments when the reality of the Eucharist hits me, which is beautiful, but overall it can just seem so . . . absurd? I'm not trying to be blasphemous. It's just hard. I don't like that it's hard, but it just seems so silly that God would come to us under the appearance of bread and wine. ANd yes it's a little absurd that God would take on a human body, but to be something which appears to be lifeless and inanimate, it's confusing.

I'd really like a good book to read about the Eucharist, just how to understand and appreciate the mystery thereof you know? I don't want a simple thing tho. I'd prefer something that's challenging and rich, even if it will take a long time to read. I'd really appreciate suggestions on that end and more practical personal suggestions as well.

There's a CD by Tim Staples. It's his latest CD, in fact. It's called "This Is My Body - Did Jesus Really Mean What He Said?" The link is here and there's information for it: http://shop.catholic...productid=17166 If it's not what you're looking for I'm sure someone can think of a book or CD you may find helpful.

[FuturePriest387]

And don't feel terrible. It's a very hard thing to comprehend. The thing is, we cannot comprehend it. It's a mystery. Do you think the disciples didn't think he was a loon when he said "This is my body"? If that were me I know I would say "Uh, Mr. Messiah, sir, that's bread." The disciples may not have been able to comprehend the implications of his words, but they took it in faith. I know I have doubted it a few times, but I simply take it in faith and looked into it. It's more commendable to take something in faith when you don't necessarily understand it, in my opinion. I'm pretty sure a Priest said what I just did one time on Catholic Answers.

Edited by FuturePriest387, 03 May 2012 - 10:12 PM.

[Spem in alium]

Dear friend,

It IS hard to comprehend, because the idea of bread and wine becoming Body and Blood is not a natural thing. I'm not sure it's something we can ever really understand. But faith is generally like that. As Khalil Gibran said so well, "Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof."

For a long time, I never thought about or questioned the Eucharist or what it really was. Now I do so every time I'm in Mass. I think it's healthy to ask questions of ourselves and of our faith, because in doing so we give ourselves the opportunity to revive and deepen our spirituality. We gain greater knowledge of what we want to believe and why, and we push ourselves to understand things in ways we never thought possible.

I'm not sure if I can help you in regards to a book, but I just wanted to let you know that you're not alone. As FuturePriest said, who's to say the disciples didn't doubt the Eucharist either? We know that Thomas doubted Christ's Resurrection, but he came to believe through seeing the Lord. Take some time to really *see* Christ at work in your life and your world. For me, doing that (as well as spending time in Adoration) really helped the Eucharist become something much more important.

May God bless you and give you strength.

[Luigi]

I don't have any book titles for you - I hope others do. But in an effort to help...

One of the most fruitful concepts for me in understanding my relationship to God is "Emmanuel" - God with us. When I look at the Bible/salvation history in the most broad-sweep way I can, I see God-with Adam & Eve in the garden, but that got pretty messed up. Then God-with Abraham, God-with Jacob, God-with Moses, God-with Elijah; these were all individuals, the very special and very few, and God was with them in various ways - voice?, angel?, in the flesh?, in the burning bush, in the small voice. During the Exodus, God was with the Israelites in the Ark of the Covenant. Most people still didn't have direct access to God. Then God was with the Jews in the Temple - more people had access to God but yo had to go to Jerusalem. When Jesus came in the flesh, lots of people in Israel (and a few in Samaria) had access to God because Jesus traveled around to them.

In giving us the Eucharist, Jesus gave everyone complete access to God - every person on Earth, in every country-city-town, in every historical era, could have God-with-us. And not in an other-person-over-there kind of way. Not limited to one place that we all have to make a pilgrimage to. Not in a fall-on-your-knees-before-this-burning-bush sort of a way. Not in a powerful-rush-of-wind or earthquake sort of way.

Rather, the Eucharist is that very personal, internal, interior, God-was-in-the-small-voice sort of way for God to be with us. Individually. Wherever we go. Whatever we do. And Jesus did all that with the simplest, humblest, and also noblest gifts of the Earth - bread and wine.

I used to think, "I wish I could have lived in the time of Jesus - maybe I would have been lucky enough to meet Him, or hear the Sermon on the Mount or something." Now I'm happy I live in the post-Jesus era, because I have Jesus/God-with-me in the Eucharist.

Yes it's hard to believe... but it's also brilliant in its simplicity, its inclusivity, its universality, its intimacy... its absurdity.

[BarbaraTherese]

And don't feel terrible. It's a very hard thing to comprehend. The thing is, we cannot comprehend it. It's a mystery. Do you think the disciples didn't think he was a loon when he said "This is my body"? If that were me I know I would say "Uh, Mr. Messiah, sir, that's bread." The disciples may not have been able to comprehend the implications of his words, but they took it in faith. I know I have doubted it a few times, but I simply take it in faith and looked into it. It's more commendable to take something in faith when you don't necessarily understand it, in my opinion. I'm pretty sure a Priest said what I just did one time on Catholic Answers.

Pretty good response, I thought. A mystery is exactly what it states - it cannot be understood. Hence, probably the more we try to understand the Blessed Eucharist, the more our understanding flounders and 'argues' with Faith. The Blessed Eucharist is a matter of Faith and Faith is what it states too - just to simply believe and transcend our understanding. Faith is superior to understanding which is a natural rational faculty of the human being. Faith is a super natural Gift and simply believes and this transcends the natural reasoning capacities of the human being. The human being is finite and therefore cannot understanding rationally The Infinite.

I struggled with this book at times, written by Fr. Robert Barron and renowned theologian, but I found it worth struggling with if complex in places "Eucharist" Fr. Robert Barron, Orbis Books.Chap Three was particuarly worth the read "If its only a symbol to H*** with it."


It is probably a common experience to approach The Blessed Eucharist, including at Adoration, with warm enlightened feelings and at other times, to feel quite cold and lacking in devotion. It is primarily at the times of lack of devotion etc. that one strives to simply rest in Dark Faith with the feelings lacking devotion. And though it holds little reward intially for the person, Faith is far superior and transcends anything one could feel. Simply because human feelings are finite and on the level of nature and Faith is super natural and on the level of The Infinite.

Edited by BarbaraTherese, 04 May 2012 - 09:36 PM.

[ACS67]

I would say, without hesitation, Alexander Schmemann's, The Eucharist: Sacrament of the Kingdom. He was an Orthodox priest and theologian, nevertheless he is highly respected by Catholic theologians. He is not easy though....he can be a tough read but he puts things into persepective unlike anyone I have ever heard or read.

You can get a taste of what he is like at this link:

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

The link above will take you to Schmemann's book called "For the Life of the World". The chapter on the Eucharist is there in its entirety if you would like to read it. This book is also fantastic.

Edited by ACS67, 04 May 2012 - 10:03 PM.

[Ice_nine]

thanks for the suggestions! I love Fr. Barron, and the Orthodox can be very helpful too

[Groo the Wanderer]

Go sit in front of the Blessed Sacrament for an hour. Read John 6. Be quiet and listen. Repeat.

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist: Unlocking the Secrets of the Last Supper By Brant Pitre. It is a fantastic book that helps to show how God had been preparing us for the Eucharist through history.

[sixpence]

Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist: Unlocking the Secrets of the Last Supper By Brant Pitre. It is a fantastic book that helps to show how God had been preparing us for the Eucharist through history.

i was going to suggest this one! I gave it to my boyfriend to read, and it look really interesting

[beatitude]

I don't like that it's hard, but it just seems so silly that God would come to us under the appearance of bread and wine. ANd yes it's a little absurd that God would take on a human body, but to be something which appears to be lifeless and inanimate, it's confusing.

Lifeless? Bread is life-giving. It is one of the most basic foods, a reminder of our human weakness and need. Jesus was born in Bethlehem, which in Hebrew means 'house of bread' (and in Arabic 'house of meat' - both languages tell us something about the death he was to die). The Bible is full of rich symbolism surrounding bread. Ravens brought it to Elijah as he was weak and alone in the desert, persecuted by his enemies and waiting to hear God. (It's no coincidence that physical nourishment through bread should be paired with listening to God's word in that chapter of the Bible - the same happens at every Mass.) Jesus compared himself to a grain of wheat when he talked about how he would give life to the world, and he urged us to be like 'leaven in the dough'. Wherever you look in the Bible, bread is a symbol of life.

As for wine, it's a symbol of joy. It's drunk at weddings and other feasts. Jesus' first miracle involved wine, and when Mary asked him to help the guests, he replied with dry dark humour that no one there could have understood: "My hour has not yet come." The only other place in the gospels where he speaks of his hour is when he refers to the crucifixion. The wedding feast at Cana prefigures Calvary, and the wine of the Eucharist reminds us of both events: Christ's sacrifice, and the joy of union with God. In the Leviticial laws, Jews were prohibited from consuming blood because it was like drinking the life of the animal. Again, life.

I think the best way to increase your faith in the Eucharist is just to pray there. If possible, go alone.

[FuturePriest387]

Father Robert Barron had a really good show on the Eucharist last night on EWTN. I don't know if it's on the official EWTN Youtube channel or not, but I'm sure if you looked around you could find it somewhere.

[FuturePriest387]

I think I have found something that may or may not help you. If it's not what you're looking for I apologize:

[BarbaraTherese]

Excellent video! Father Barron has conveyed a quite simple and easily understood, straightforward explanation of Catholic belief and reality of The Blessed Eucharist in 11 minutes roughly - and drawing on Scripture. It is worth internalizing in order to be able to explain The Blessed Eucharist if necessary. I have always felt for those around Jesus who first heard the words "unless you eat of the flesh of man and drink his blood you shall not have life in you". It must have been a most startling statement to their sensibilities and their intellects. For them, it was also a seeming assault on their Jewish religious beliefs preventing the eating of flesh with blood.

An example of how Catholic Theology speaks to Scripture in a living dialogue. Scripture is alive and dynamic and The Word of God inspired by The Holy Spirit - theology dialogues with this (often through insights of our scripture scholars) and hence our insight and understanding grows and will continue to grow. "[25] These things have I spoken to you, abiding with you.
[26] But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you. [John 14:26] [Latin] [27] Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, do I give unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, nor let it be afraid."

The Eucharistic Congress (great events! - been to one in my lifetime) is very similar to our yearly Marion Procession in Adelaide. In parishes under our parish banner we process in a public place praying the Rosary out loud. At the end of the procession, our Archbishop processes in with the Blessed Eucharist in a monstrance and we have Benediction. A very public statement of how Mary, the Motherof Jesus, always surely leads to her Son.

Edited by BarbaraTherese, 08 May 2012 - 07:59 PM.

[Papist]

I know it's terrible. I signed up for a weekly hour of adoration (I missed las week tho I wasn't feeling well so sad), and there are moments when the reality of the Eucharist hits me, which is beautiful, but overall it can just seem so . . . absurd? I'm not trying to be blasphemous. It's just hard. I don't like that it's hard, but it just seems so silly that God would come to us under the appearance of bread and wine. ANd yes it's a little absurd that God would take on a human body, but to be something which appears to be lifeless and inanimate, it's confusing.

I'd really like a good book to read about the Eucharist, just how to understand and appreciate the mystery thereof you know? I don't want a simple thing tho. I'd prefer something that's challenging and rich, even if it will take a long time to read. I'd really appreciate suggestions on that end and more practical personal suggestions as well.

The best I know is The Holy Eucharist by Cardinal Francis Arinze


Excerpt from The Holy Eucharist

Part I: Institution

It is first useful for us to say a word on how the Holy Eucharist was foreshadowed in the Old Testament, promised by our Lord after the multiplication of the loaves and fishes, and finally instituted at the Last Supper.

Foreshadowed in the Old Testament

The Covenant between God and the People of Israel, who were under the leadership of Moses, was made with the sacrifice of calves. "Moses took the blood and cast it towards the people. ‘This,’ he said, ‘is the blood of the Covenant that Yahweh has made with you, containing all these rules’ " (Exod 24:8). This was a foreshadowing of the New Covenant, which would be made by the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross for the redemption of all humanity.

God fed his chosen people with manna from heaven for the forty years that they wandered in the desert (cf. Exod 16:35); this was a symbol of Christ feeding his people with his Body and Blood during their years of earthly pilgrimage.

The paschal lamb (cf. Exod 12:1-14) and Isaac who was ready to be offered to God (cf. Gen 22:1-14) are symbols of Christ, the victim of love for our sins.

Through the prophet Malachi, God predicted that the sacrifices of old would be replaced with a pure offering: "From farthest east to farthest west, my name is honored among the nations and everywhere a sacrifice of incense is offered to my name, and a pure offering too, since my name is honored among the nations, says Yahweh Sabaoth" (Mal 1:11). This is a clear prophecy about the Eucharistic Sacrifice that would eplace all Old Testament sacrifices for all time and in all places.

Promised by Jesus Himself

Jesus announced that he would give humanity the great gift of the Eucharistic mystery. After he performed the miracle of multiplying five barley loaves and two fishes, thousands of people ate to their hearts’ content, and twelve baskets of leftovers were collected. The people followed Jesus. Enthusiasm ran high. They wanted to make him king.

Jesus took that occasion to advise them to look for the food that will not perish. He told them that he is the bread come down from heaven that would guarantee immortality to those who ate of it. To make it still clearer to them, he declared: "My flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood lives in me and I live in him. . . . Anyone who eats this bread will live for ever" (Jn 6:55-58).

Many of his disciples refused to believe. They said: "This is intolerable language. How could anyone accept it?" (Jn 6:60). They walked away. But Peter and the other Apostles stayed with Jesus and confessed their faith and trust in him: "Lord, who shall we go to? You have the message of eternal life, and we believe; we know that you are the Holy One of God" (Jn 6:68-69). Peter has echoed the attitude of faith of all those throughout history who, at Jesus’ word, believe in the Eucharistic mystery.

Instituted at the Last Supper

At the Last Supper of Jesus with his Apostles, something extraordinary took place. "Jesus knew that the hour had come for him to pass from this world to the Father. He had always loved those who were his in the world, but now he showed how perfect his love was" (Jn 13:1). This is the deliberately chosen introduction by St. John the Evangelist.

Jesus washed the feet of his disciples. The act was full of meaning. The supper began. During the supper, Jesus made many special discourses. It was, after all, his Last Supper with his dear ones, the night before he would sacrifice himself on the Cross.

"Now as they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and when he had said the blessing he broke it and gave it to disciples. ‘Take it and eat’; he said, ‘this is my body.’ Then he took a cup, and when he had returned thanks he gave it to them. ‘Drink all of you from this,’ he said, ‘for this is my blood, the blood of the covenant, which is to be poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. From now on, I tell you, I shall not drink wine until the day I drink the new wine with you in the kingdom of my Father’ " (Mt 26:26-29; cf. also Mk 14:22-25; Lk 22:19-20). He also added: "Do this as a memorial of me" (Lk 22:19).

By this act Jesus did two things. He changed bread and wine into his Body and Blood and gave to the Apostles to eat and drink. Then he told his Apostles to do this in his memory, that is, to consecrate bread and wine into his Body and Blood and distribute to his followers. He was telling them to celebrate the Eucharistic Sacrifice. He was ordaining them priests of the New Covenant.

The intention, and indeed command, of Christ was faithfully carried out by the primitive Church. St. Luke testifies: "These remained faithful to the teaching of the apostles, to the brotherhood, to the breaking of bread and to the prayers" (Acts 2:42). St. Paul the Apostle, who faithfully transmitted to us what he had received from the Lord (cf. 1 Cor 11:23), is clearly speaking of the Eucharistic Sacrifice when he points out that Christians ought not to take part in pagan sacrifices, precisely because they have been made partakers of the table of the Lord (cf. 1 Cor 10:16).

The Holy Eucharist was therefore directly instituted by Jesus Christ himself as his special parting gift to his Church.

Something easier to read would be,

This is My Body: An Evangelical Discovers the Real Presence by Mark P. Shea

[Safia]

Are you an intellectual person at all? I'd recommend reading JESUS AND THE JEWISH ROOTS OF THE EUCHARIST. It shows just how NOT absurd it was to invent the Eucharist at the Last Supper for Our Lord's time.

What helped me constantly is the prayer, "Jesus, I believe; help my unbelief." I will never forget the day the mystery pierced my soul.

I'll pray for you.

[MissyP89]

For what it's worth, Ice, I feel that way about our whole faith most days. I know that doesn't answer your question, but I thought it might help to know that you're not alone in feeling the way you do. Don't be ashamed. We all struggle.

I think the real measure of our faith is if we quit or we keep going, despite our doubts. I think that's what God looks at, too, in the end.

Hugs and prayers, friend. Thank you for always being so open and honest. It inspires me.

[xTrishaxLynnx]

I know it's terrible. I signed up for a weekly hour of adoration (I missed las week tho I wasn't feeling well so sad), and there are moments when the reality of the Eucharist hits me, which is beautiful, but overall it can just seem so . . . absurd? I'm not trying to be blasphemous. It's just hard. I don't like that it's hard, but it just seems so silly that God would come to us under the appearance of bread and wine. ANd yes it's a little absurd that God would take on a human body, but to be something which appears to be lifeless and inanimate, it's confusing.

I'd really like a good book to read about the Eucharist, just how to understand and appreciate the mystery thereof you know? I don't want a simple thing tho. I'd prefer something that's challenging and rich, even if it will take a long time to read. I'd really appreciate suggestions on that end and more practical personal suggestions as well.

While I don't have a suggestion for a book or anything (I think that's pretty well covered, anyway) I can offer something that has helped me, not to understand, but to accept the Eucharist as the body and blood of Christ. I just close my eyes and imagine it is actually Jesus standing at the altar, saying the words "This is my body... this is my blood." This helps me to remember that the priest is there in his stead... it's sometimes easy to forget that, especially the way our Pastor parades around the altar like he's on a broadway stage... that's an entirely different topic, though.

[Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye]

While I don't have a suggestion for a book or anything (I think that's pretty well covered, anyway) I can offer something that has helped me, not to understand, but to accept the Eucharist as the body and blood of Christ. I just close my eyes and imagine it is actually Jesus standing at the altar, saying the words "This is my body... this is my blood." This helps me to remember that the priest is there in his stead... it's sometimes easy to forget that, especially the way our Pastor parades around the altar like he's on a broadway stage... that's an entirely different topic, though.

aha i saw a substitute priest do something similar today and on top of it he walked to a lady in a pew and told everyone it was her 90th birthday and hugged and kissed her and prayed over her and than everyone clapped this is all fine but probably should be done after the final blessing is given and not half way through the mass.

edit: sorry off topic but undeletable now because i realised this after post that i should have pm'd it, i'm still learning

Edited by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye, 10 June 2012 - 02:23 AM.