9 replies to this topic

[Hubertus]

To what extent does God's Will permeate our lives? Not in how we apply it, but in all the things that He wills for us. Does He micromanage, or macromanage? Note: by these terms I don't mean in Creationism or in predestination of our futures, I just mean in willing things for us, which we can choose to carry out or not to carry out.

I would say that God does not will things in our lives to the extreme, although I am aware of a debate on that subject, I think. My friend who goes to Franciscan once said that he knew people who would get asked if they wanted to go get coffee but respond with, "I need to pray about it." That of course sounds a bit silly. But I think when I was younger I sort of thought along those same lines, like "Does God want me to go to the store or should I stay and do x,y,z things instead?"

I don't think that way anymore. But I have been thinking sort of along the lines of, "Does God want me to be at college X? Should I go to college Y?" etc.

However, I talked to a priest today who told me different. I was talking to him about discerning God's will in my life specifically. I told him that I had previously despaired because I thought it was God's will for me to be at this university, yet I was suffering in my grades, which was confusing me. I then concluded that the fact that I am doing poorly in my schoolwork here could be a sign that it is not God's will for me to be here and that I need to switch universities (back to my old, easier one).

Father's response was that I shouldn't worry so much about God's will to such a small scale. I do of course need to keep His commandments and seek to glorify him, but what he said was that I need to pursue my career in whatever way is best for me to achieve it, and ask God to bless it. An example he used was Blessed Theresa of Calcutta. He said she didn't pace back and forth wondering if it was God's will for her to go to Calcutta; she simply saw the poor state of the people in Calcutta and resolved to be there.

I'm not sure what to think about this, but using the saints as an example is indeed a good idea. How specific was God's will for the saints? He told Saint Francis to "build my Church," which Francis thought was a call to physically build a church, but was actually intended to be applied on a broader scale. He seemed to make the mistake of assuming that God was micromanaging him.

However, Saint Faustina took a train to Warsaw on a simple word from God that she needed to go there and join a convent. So should we expect that sort of lifestyle for ourselves, or is that reserved for mystics like her?

TL;DR:
Does God will for us to make a turkey sandwich, or does He just will for us to "be a good person," or is it somewhere in between?

[Basilisa Marie]

I tend to think that God has a particular interest in our lives on some scale, like what you said about figuring out if you were supposed to be at a certain college. The way you went out figuring out God's will was good. Discerning God's will isn't so much "oh man I don't know what God wants me to do here so I won't do anything until He tells me," but rather "okay I think this is what God wants me to do because it brings me happiness or the other option clearly isn't working so I'm going to make a change and if it's not meant to be I'll keep an eye out for something that'll show me different."

Like, I've got a priest friend who was struggling with his "call" before he entered seminary. He wasn't a good student in high school, so he responded to the call by saying to God, "Okay, I'm going to do my absolute best to study for the SAT, but if I don't get a certain score that'll get me into seminary, I'll know that this wasn't Your will." Happily, he got a great score, did well in seminary and is now an amesome priest.

Or like another friend of mine was pretty sure that he wanted to go get a doctorate in philosophy and have a career in academia. But then he was rejected from the program everyone told him he'd be a shoe-in for, and didn't get enough financial aid from another school to pursue it. So he realized that it wasn't God's will for him to go on for a PhD, at least right now, and he recently found a position teaching theology at a Catholic high school. He really was more of a person who was of the "I'll pick the career and ask God to bless it" mindset, but that didn't work out for him right now, so he had to re-evaluate what he thought God was calling him to do.

So in the end I think it's not about "Does God want me to choose a red shirt or blue shirt today?" but that God has a plan for each of us. I see it more as working with God, especially to figure out the bigger decisions in life (is this the right college? career? should I marry him? should we move? is it time to have kids?). But we shouldn't be afraid to act or make a decision because we're so worried about doing what God wants.

TL;DR: Yeah it's in the middle. We live our lives and make decisions, while God uses our circumstances, desires and experiences to show us which decision is best.

[nunsense]

I do believe that God is involved in every detail of our lives, but because He has given us free will, He doesn't micro-manage us but like any parent, watches over us to be there if we call out for help. In daily life, I simply try to be aware of His presence at all times and to consider whether what I am doing at any time is giving glory to Him or causing Him offence. If, for example, you had a bad habit of letting a swear word or two slip out, but you were in the company of a dear friend who didn't like swearing, you would probably make an extra effort not to do so in their company. Or perhaps you might be asked to help out someone but you don't want to do it because you have your own plans, but you know that to do so would be an act of charity and putting another's needs ahead of your own desires - this would give glory to God. So little things can be important, but He wants us to make our choices based on our love of Him.

As for difficulties that arise, these don't necessarily mean that God does not want us to do that thing, but that He is giving us an opportunity to grow in faith and to depend on Him more. Most of the saints had to face great trial and tribulations, many from their own superiors. They didn't stop their work unless under obedience to do so, but they continued on in humility and full dependence of God to provide what they needed. In the case of studying, God gave us affinities to guide us towards those things that will make use of the gifts and talents that He gave us. If you are not succeeding at what you are doing, perhaps you need to examine why you started this in the first place and see if your problems are self-created (say from not studying enough) or simply that you have no affinity with this particular are of study. A change might be good but before doing this, why not get some advice from an academic counselor?

And a PS - sometimes circumstances beyond our control can be an indication that God is giving us a nudge in a certain direction as shown in Basilia's post above. 'All the best laid plans..."

Edited by nunsense, 04 May 2012 - 07:13 AM.

[Era Might]

One way I understand this question is 1Corinthians 3:11-15:

For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw -- each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

Our lives are like a building, and the foundation is Christ. What we build on the foundation can be gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw...there are lots of natural materials we can use, and God doesn't tell us how to build, but he invites us to himself always, and when we go to him our work either survives or is burned up, "for our God is a consuming fire" (Hebrews 12:29).

Interestingly, 1Corinthians 3:11-15 is often used as a proof text for purgatory. That's the essential idea of purgatory, our lives must be burned up in fire, until only the pure remains. I think it's blasphemous, actually, to attribute everything to God, because we make a lot of compromises in this world. The important thing is always to present your life before God to be tried by fire. The question is not whether or not you should eat a turkey sandwich, but if that turkey sandwich is part of some other thing that is going to be burned up (e.g., gluttony), then as long as you present yourself before God every day, you will be purified every day. And as long as the foundation you build on is Christ, then you have freedom to select the materials, with humility, knowing that "For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love be servants of one another." (Galatians 5:13)

Edited by Era Might, 04 May 2012 - 11:13 AM.

[Groo the Wanderer]

no

[Norseman82]

One way I understand this question is 1Corinthians 3:11-15:

[/color]
Our lives are like a building, and the foundation is Christ. What we build on the foundation can be gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw...there are lots of natural materials we can use, and God doesn't tell us how to build, but he invites us to himself always, and when we go to him our work either survives or is burned up, "for our God is a consuming fire" (Hebrews 12:29).

Interestingly, 1Corinthians 3:11-15 is often used as a proof text for purgatory. That's the essential idea of purgatory, our lives must be burned up in fire, until only the pure remains. I think it's blasphemous, actually, to attribute everything to God, because we make a lot of compromises in this world. The important thing is always to present your life before God to be tried by fire. The question is not whether or not you should eat a turkey sandwich, but if that turkey sandwich is part of some other thing that is going to be burned up (e.g., gluttony), then as long as you present yourself before God every day, you will be purified every day. And as long as the foundation you build on is Christ, then you have freedom to select the materials, with humility, knowing that "For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love be servants of one another." (Galatians 5:13)

I agree. I actually find that he concept of a "micromanaging God" can be used to manipulate people, such as the one time one moderator (who hasn't posted here in some time - good riddance!) decided to go out of his way to email me and speak of "The wife God intends for you". It also can be a crutch for indecision.

[Anomaly]

I always wonder what a micromanaging god would have been doing when Jessica Lunsford was being buried alive after her rape.

[Winchester]

I always wonder what a micromanaging god would have been doing when Jessica Lunsford was being buried alive after her rape.

There is the answer.

The Edited by moderator: MIKolbe- language I would kill, if I were given the power.

[Mark of the Cross]

I always wonder what a micromanaging god would have been doing when Jessica Lunsford was being buried alive after her rape.

Where was God while Jesus was being tortured and sexually humiliated (stripped naked at least)? I think there is somewhat of a message in the crucifixion. If the God that created the Universe is willing to suffer a horrible death to make a way for my salvation and then asks me to endure a horrible death then although the reason is a mystery I still must accept it by faith. Read the story of Job. There is a message that what God has planned for those that love him will eclipse any suffering you can possibly think of on this earth.

Edited by Mark of the Cross, 05 May 2012 - 04:00 PM.

[Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye]

I believe Gods will is love and love will lead us,and when in faith we allow ourselves to be lead we recieve the gift of hope. Sounds to simple right? If we put asside lofty feelings(though at times these are present.) sometimes the sacrifice is in the offering and it can hurt, is funny God loves anything we can offer him, mother angelica once said that she recieved a present from a boy in a shoe box, and she opened the shoe box and to her wonder(and possibly slight horror.) to find a dead frog with a rock in the middle.Perplexed she looked at the boy and the boy smiled and said "this is my greatest treasure and i open this box every night and look at it,i wan't you to have it." Mother angelica melted and decided this was the best present she had ever recieved,and she had recieved 1000's, not because of the dead frog but because it was the boys greatest treasure and he was entrusting it to her care,(something along those lines anyway.) God loves you anyway Hubertus, give your best,running the race for victory doesn't mean where going to always win it means that we have given our best. I hope this helps God bless you.

Onward christian souls.
JESUS is LORD.
GOd is good, God is love, God saves.

Edited by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye, 05 May 2012 - 04:26 PM.