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Discalced Carmelite Nun Communities

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Chiquitunga    817
Chiquitunga
[quote name='inperpetuity' timestamp='1346043742' post='2474781']Chiquitunga, so they are making a foundation? Do you know where? They were making this one when I was in Buffalo and I've always wondered about them.
[/quote]
Yes, as far as I know. I heard this from a priest but then found a small mention [url="http://www.bismarckdiocese.com/uploads%5Cresources%5C1509%5Capril-2012-clergy-communicator.pdf"]here[/url] from the Bishop of the Diocese of Bismarck, ND. It seems like they are in the early stages, so let us keep them in prayer :pray:

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Chiara Francesco    291
Chiara Francesco
Congratulations, IMSB1231! How wonderful for you! I will keep you in my prayers.

I loved the points you listed from the priest and prioresses.

I have written and visited Carmels and Poor Clare Colettine communities and these points are the same for PCCs (maybe others too) as the Mother Abbesses in the PCC communities said pretty much the same! How is this:

-if you are called to be a Carmelite or a PCC, you will also be called to a specific Carmel/PCC monastery (each one is a little different, even if it's the same spirit).. and it will feel like "home"

-entering Carmel/the PCCs is like taking a big plunge- there will be many "unknowns" but you will not regret following God's call

-if you feel like you do not have the strength or health for this life's austerities, don't worry- if God calls you, He'll give you the strength (Carmel and the PCCs have the same austerities and the PCCs have the added barefoot (tough in the winter/fall on ice cold floors! I tried this myself during a visit to a PCC monastery this past February and went barefoot when I could in the chapel, my room, etc when the public wasn't around and while it was tough!, it was also beautiful and wonderful!), the midnight rising with the interrupted sleep and the year round perpetual fast and abstinence and others. I love both orders so God DOES give the graces needed for where ever one goes.

-the cloistered nun should have a missionary's heart: the church has always held in high regard those behind grates, because their prayers can do more than a missionary's works, and will help their works bear fruit

-cloistered nuns develop a special gift of infused wisdom because of their prayer/enclosure- God gives them profound wisdom, which they share to those who visit them and seek counsel. - definitely! I have gotten much benefit from these nuns, more from a SD I had once! I think it was better as they LIVE the life and have developed a good sense of who is for them and who is not and who they are willing to give a chance too.

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emmaberry    781
emmaberry
[quote name='Chiara Francesco' timestamp='1346184519' post='2475384']
-cloistered nuns develop a special gift of infused wisdom because of their prayer/enclosure- God gives them profound wisdom, which they share to those who visit them and seek counsel. - definitely! I have gotten much benefit from these nuns, more from a SD I had once! I think it was better as they LIVE the life and have developed a good sense of who is for them and who is not and who they are willing to give a chance too.
[/quote]

This is one thing that scared me about the nuns, especially Mother! They have eyes that can just look right through you. It's funny, because they are in the cloister, but I feel like they knew so much about me before I even opened my mouth! It was such a strange feeling. During the whole visit, I could tell that Mother and the nuns were expertly evaluating me, and there was no room to be fake or anything unlike one's truest self. Of course, Mother and the nuns were completely sweet, generous, and holy women, but I suppose that is how any girl feels when she meets the Superior of the community she'd like to join.

Sitting in front of cloistered nuns was almost like sitting in front of Saint Pio-as if they could read your heart. Edited by emmaberry

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Studiumecclesiae    11
Studiumecclesiae
I would like to share you some pictures of the Carmel of Eynesse (you pronounce it "A - ness").
Those are ultra-traditional nuns, with daily Traditional Latin Mass and the strictest enclosure: no way to see them. Well they have a black veil hiding their faces when in parlour.

[img]http://www.laportelatine.org/publications/presse/2007/eynessehabit/carmel03.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.laportelatine.org/publications/presse/2007/eynessehabit/carmel05.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.laportelatine.org/publications/presse/2007/eynessehabit/carmel04.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.laportelatine.org/publications/presse/2007/eynessehabit/carmel06.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.laportelatine.org/publications/presse/2008/25ansCarmel/carm07.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.laportelatine.org/publications/presse/2008/25ansCarmel/carm03.jpg[/img]

Well it's the most traditional Carmel in France (they are SSPX), but there's also Alençon Carmel with the Traditional Latin Mass three times a week that is nearly as strict (but they don't hide their faces when in parlour; except when it's a man) and they have diocesan priests. Créteil Carmel has no Traditional Latin Mass but all Latin office.

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Chiquitunga    817
Chiquitunga
Do they have double grilles? It doesn't appear that they do. Nearly all 1990 Carmels have them .. though I have heard of a few that don't .. Traverse City, Flemington and Ars (I noticed from those videos on them on youtube)

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ACS67    131
ACS67
Chiquitunga,
I heard back from the Des Plaines Carmel. She didn't say "no" to my age but she did say that from their experience it is much more difficult for women over 35 to live in the cloister. However, she encouraged me to write to them again and tell them more about myself. So I did. :) I suppose it is now just a matter of getting to know one another through letters and then arranging a visit. I've never been to a Carmelite monastery before but I would imagine it is somewhat like the Poor Clares, strict enclosure, Divine Office, study, etc. I think I read a thread here on PM VS that Carmelites put more focus on the "hermit" than the "community" so there is probably more individual solitary pray in Carmel than in the Franciscan life.

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Chiquitunga    817
Chiquitunga
ACS67, that is great to hear! I am sincerely happy for you! I will keep you in prayer. Yes, solitude is more emphasized in Carmel (the first Carmelites were hermits on Mt. Carmel) than in the Poor Clares.. although in Carmel there [i]are[/i] the two hour recreation periods, after dinner (in the middle of the day) and supper/colation .. whereas in the Poor Clares there is usually just one one hour recreation in the evening. But besides that, yes, solitude in the cell is more emphasized in Carmel.. and generally the spirituality of solitude, even in the midst of community life. Some Carmels emphasize it more, some less. I have heard it is more so in French Carmels, which is what Des Plaines is. I will keep you in prayer! They are a wonderful community! :pray:

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Chiquitunga    817
Chiquitunga
[quote name='VeniJesuAmorMi' timestamp='1346267010' post='2475917']
Has anyone heard anything more about the new foundation from the Nebraska Carmelites?
[/quote]
There are a couple recent comments [url="http://cal-catholic.com/wordpress/2012/07/30/new-carmelite-house/"]here[/url] on the bottom by the father of one of the Sisters. They will be enclosed September 21st :pray:

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emmaberry    781
emmaberry
[quote name='Chiquitunga' timestamp='1346302240' post='2476183']
ACS67, that is great to hear! I am sincerely happy for you! I will keep you in prayer. Yes, solitude is more emphasized in Carmel (the first Carmelites were hermits on Mt. Carmel) than in the Poor Clares.. although in Carmel there [i]are[/i] the two hour recreation periods, after dinner (in the middle of the day) and supper/colation .. whereas in the Poor Clares there is usually just one one hour recreation in the evening. But besides that, yes, solitude in the cell is more emphasized in Carmel.. and generally the spirituality of solitude, even in the midst of community life. Some Carmels emphasize it more, some less. I have heard it is more so in French Carmels, which is what Des Plaines is. I will keep you in prayer! They are a wonderful community! :pray:
[/quote]
I thought I was called to Carmel when I began discerning (who doesn't think that?!) because of the focus on solitude. Where I am now, I don't know if I [s]edit: cold[/s] could handle two daily recreations! Zaps my energy imagining it..or could be that I need to go to bed. :hehe:

[quote name='Chiquitunga' timestamp='1346467173' post='2477009']
There are a couple recent comments [url="http://cal-catholic.com/wordpress/2012/07/30/new-carmelite-house/"]here[/url] on the bottom by the father of one of the Sisters. [b]They will be enclosed September 21st [/b] :pray:
[/quote]
So, in other words, everyone needs to make a mad dash to Nebraska before they are enclosed??

Is it common practice to allow people in to see the monastery and other things like that before the nuns are officially enclosed? I read about this in A Right to Be Merry, but know that certain practices aren't done in every order/community. Thanks! Edited by emmaberry

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VeniJesuAmorMi    510
VeniJesuAmorMi
[quote name='Chiquitunga' timestamp='1346467173' post='2477009']
There are a couple recent comments [url="http://cal-catholic.com/wordpress/2012/07/30/new-carmelite-house/"]here[/url] on the bottom by the father of one of the Sisters. They will be enclosed September 21st :pray:
[/quote]

God reward you! :)

So then they must have the Sisters there that are going to stay. I heard that on August 24th the 5 that were there went back to Nebraska (after a month of being in CA) and then they would take 5 more Sisters and head back to CA. I guess that would be 10 total? I'm surprised they didn't send more, but then again maybe its because they should have only 21 in the community anyway so they wouldn't make a new foundation and fill it up already! :hehe2:

They will also have a lot of Sisters still in Nebraska... it will be interesting to find out that still another foundation will be happening soon. :)

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dymphnamaria    130
dymphnamaria
[quote name='lmsb1231' timestamp='1346061915' post='2474832']


Chiquitunga-i didn't know most of the Asian sisters were Vietnamese! Good to know. The Filipino sister is fairly new- she was a postulant when i went for my come-and-see. she just received the Habit in June. and when i enter, i'll be the next Filipino xP


[/quote]


I'm glad that I've found fellow Filipinos here. My prayers for you on your entrance to Carmel!

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VeniJesuAmorMi    510
VeniJesuAmorMi
[quote name='emmaberry' timestamp='1346473862' post='2477046']
I thought I was called to Carmel when I began discerning (who doesn't think that?!) because of the focus on solitude. Where I am now, I don't know if I [s]edit: cold[/s] could handle two daily recreations! Zaps my energy imagining it..or could be that I need to go to bed. :hehe:


So, in other words, everyone needs to make a mad dash to Nebraska before they are enclosed??

Is it common practice to allow people in to see the monastery and other things like that before the nuns are officially enclosed? I read about this in A Right to Be Merry, but know that certain practices aren't done in every order/community. Thanks!
[/quote]

That's an interesting thought. :) When I started looking into Carmelite communties I was looking for those that seemed to have more of an emphasis on solitude. Well I entered a wonderful Carmelite community and I found that the balance of everything was perfect; just as our Holy Mother St. Teresa had put together. There is no talking to anyone during the day except the Superiors to get your permissions, and then at the recreations the community gets together to talk. It was a lot of fun; a time when the Sisters could be silly and have simple fun. I didn't find it a distraction. We had retreats during the year that went for 8 days at a time, and we wouldn't have recreations and sometimes we had "hermit" days where you could eat your dinner somewhere other than the refectory and you wouldn't have the afternoon recreation and hardly no work. The retreat days and hermit days were special, and then when you had recreations again you would enjoy the company of the Sisters. Then there is the 8 day retreat that the Sister would have before her Clothing or making Vows. No recreations for her the whole 8 days; that was really great. Before making her Solemn Profession, the Sister would go to the Chapel the night before and stay with Our Lord until midnight. Also, (just to share :) ) the Sister who was going to have a Ceremony would sleep in and the Community would process to her cell and sing to her to wake her up. That was beautiful too.

I don't know much about seeing the monastery before it's enclosed but when the Sisters came from Nebraska to PA, they had "tours" for people to go through and see it. The family also got to see their daughter, without the grille. So I could imagine that it was exciting for the family. As for the Sisters, they were probably excited to be enclosed and not have all these people walking around so they could continue there life of silence and prayer. :pray:


Edit: for spelling. Edited by VeniJesuAmorMi

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Mary's Margaret    152
Mary's Margaret
VJAM, that sounds like such a lovely community. Allowing the Sister to stay with her Lord into the night, then singing her into her special day! What blessings from our most loving God! Thank-you for sharing this with us.

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emmaberry    781
emmaberry
[quote name='VeniJesuAmorMi' timestamp='1346510537' post='2477144']
That's an interesting thought. :) When I started looking into Carmelite communties I was looking for those that seemed to have more of an emphasis on solitude. Well I entered a wonderful Carmelite community and I found that the balance of everything was perfect; just as our Holy Mother St. Teresa had put together. There is no talking to anyone during the day except the Superiors to get your permissions, and then at the recreations the community gets together to talk. It was a lot of fun; a time when the Sisters could be silly and have simple fun. I didn't find it a distraction. We had retreats during the year that went for 8 days at a time, and we wouldn't have recreations and sometimes we had "hermit" days where you could eat your dinner somewhere other than the refectory and you wouldn't have the afternoon recreation and hardly no work. The retreat days and hermit days were special, and then when you had recreations again you would enjoy the company of the Sisters. Then there is the 8 day retreat that the Sister would have before her Clothing or making Vows. No recreations for her the whole 8 days; that was really great. Before making her Solemn Profession, the Sister would go to the Chapel the night before and stay with Our Lord until midnight. Also, (just to share :) ) the Sister who was going to have a Ceremony would sleep in and the Community would process to her cell and sing to her to wake her up. That was beautiful too.

I don't know much about seeing the monastery before it's enclosed but when the Sisters came from Nebraska to PA, they had "tours" for people to go through and see it. The family also got to see their daughter, without the grille. So I could imagine that it was exciting for the family. As for the Sisters, they were probably excited to be enclosed and not have all these people walking around so they could continue there life of silence and prayer. :pray:


Edit: for spelling.
[/quote]

Out of props, but your former community sounds lovely! :love:

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ACS67    131
ACS67
Do most Carmelites use the Liturgy of the Hours or do they have their own Divine Office? I thought I read somewhere that the traditional nuns in Nebraska use a different office and then there are those that use Latin in the Office. I am not aware that the Liturgy of the Hours is in Latin (maybe it is and I have just never seen it). Thanks!

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emmaberry    781
emmaberry
[quote name='ACS67' timestamp='1346627969' post='2477690']
Do most Carmelites use the Liturgy of the Hours or do they have their own Divine Office? I thought I read somewhere that the traditional nuns in Nebraska use a different office and then there are those that use Latin in the Office. I am not aware that the Liturgy of the Hours is in Latin (maybe it is and I have just never seen it). Thanks!
[/quote]

This will not fully answer your question, but the Nebraska Carmelites do things differently than the other US Carmels, besides the foundations Nebraska has made, of course. So I know their office is different/special, and of course they celebrate the Latin Mass. I believe their 'different' Office is Latin as well. Hopefully someone can specify the exact title of the Office they pray!

Edit: If you go [topic='122733']here[/topic] to post #25, Chiquitunga says that they are the only Carmel in the WORLD that recites the Carmelite Rite Divine Office (wow!).

From this site: [url="http://catholicquotations.blogspot.com/p/praying-divine-office.html"]http://catholicquotations.blogspot.com/p/praying-divine-office.html[/url] (scrolled down halfway)
[quote]"Strictly enclosed behind the walls of their convents the Nuns of the Carmels of Jesus Mary and Joseph in Valparaiso, NE and their daughter house in Elysburg, PA are the [b]only Carmelite Nuns in the world using the Carmelite Rite[/b], and they are flourishing.[b] They sing the Divine Office each day entirely in Latin[/b], and have the [b]Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite offered for them each day[/b]. They truly live the Carmelite vocation as it was lived by Saint Teresa of Avila and Saint Therese of the Child Jesus and of the Holy Face"[/quote] Edited by emmaberry

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Chiquitunga    817
Chiquitunga
Yes, the three Carmels of JMJ (all have the same name) in Valparaiso, NE - Elysburg, PA - and now Canyon, CA pray the Carmelite Rite (O.Carm.) Divine Office. Another name for it is the Rite of the Holy Sepulchre - [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmelite_Rite"]http://en.wikipedia..../Carmelite_Rite[/url]

[img]http://images.cloud.worthpoint.com/wpimages/images/images1/1/0709/15/1_0236d6f0a02b31b8e750f452a5829dd8.jpg[/img]

from [url="http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/carmelite-rite-breviary-vulgate-latin-76842125"]here[/url] (the first is probably an earlier or later edition with just Carmel. instead of Ord.Carm.)

Soon after their founding (not sure when exactly, within the 16th century, read that somewhere) the Discalced Carmelite Order stopped using the O.Carm. Rite and used to Roman Rite instead. So yes, this is something very unique about the Carmel of JMJ. The ordinary traditional/Pre-Vatican II/Extraordinary (whatever is the right wording) for Discalced Carmelites (not O.Carm.) is [url="http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item46075a7559&item=300771079513&nma=true&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&rt=nc&si=pUL9jh%252B0QTPO4ENiA2cl4uB76pA%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc#ht_1692wt_1327"]this one[/url]. Actually I heard that Valparaiso was discerning between this one and the O.Carm. one, but chose O.Carm. ... perhaps because it would be easier with the Carmelite Monks in Wyoming also using it, who have reprinted it and provide it for the nuns - [url="http://www.carmelitemonks.org/CarmeliteRite.php"]http://www.carmelite...rmeliteRite.php[/url]

The other Carmels with an all Latin Office use the Roman Rite (which again, is the norm for OCDs) which currently is the [i]Liturgia Horarum[/i], or it's translated form[i] Liturgy of the Hours[/i] for the US/it's called simply [i]The Divine Office[/i] in the UK edition (different English translation). The Carmels that I know of that pray the full [i]Liturgia Horarum[/i] in Latin are Buffalo, Alexandria, Brooklyn & Wichita.

[img]http://static.bakeca.it/immagini/975/9755911b92df0dfcffb80bcbb4b322d9.jpg[/img]

A couple places where you can get it, [url="http://www.paxbook.com/"]http://www.paxbook.com/[/url] & [url="http://www.theologicalforum.org/"]http://www.theologicalforum.org/[/url] (note: there are a couple different editions, I'm not sure all the differences, one from the 80's another around/after 2000, so be careful to get the current one if you buy them used online)

And an online version, yay!!! :clap: [url="http://www.almudi.org/Portals/0/docs/Breviario/fuentes/breviario.html"]http://www.almudi.or.../breviario.html[/url]


p.s. and to supplement the LH they have their own proper book with their saints (rather than having it all together as the Roman Discalced Carmelite one on eBay posted above) The current US (& some other countries, etc.) [url="http://www.amazon.com/Carmelite-Proper-Liturgy-Hours/dp/8872880289/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1346650646&sr=8-4&keywords=carmelite+proper"]Carmelite Proper[/url], used by OCD and OCarm, and the [url="http://www.carmelite.org.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_CARMELITE_LITURGY_47.html"]current UK/Ireland, etc. one[/url] (only OCD) Hope this is not confusing! :topsy: Edited by Chiquitunga

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emmaberry    781
emmaberry
[quote name='Chiquitunga' timestamp='1346647556' post='2477787']
And an online version, yay!!! :clap: [url="http://www.almudi.org/Portals/0/docs/Breviario/fuentes/breviario.html"]http://www.almudi.or.../breviario.html[/url]
[/quote]

This made me so happy. I love that this is online. May God reward you!

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