13 replies to this topic

[Maximilianus]

You might say I have a big devotion to Our Lady of Guadalupe. I’ve been to the Basilica in Mexico City at least a dozen times. But actually when I think of Our Lady, I don’t think of her as Our Lady of “Guadalupe.” I think of her as Our Lady of “Coatlexopeuh.” That’s right. Our Lady of Co-ahh-tla-shu-peh. After all, in 1531 when Mary appeared to Saint Juan Diego on the hill of Tepeyac she didn’t speak to him in Spanish. She conversed with this Aztec peasant in his native language of Nahuatl. Many paleolinguistic scholars (those who study ancient languages) are pretty certain that Mary didn’t introduce herself as “Guadalupe,” (which relates to a place in Spain) but instead, “Coatlexopeh,” the meaning of which gives this story a whole new -and exceptionally amesome- twist.

http://www.focus.org...ed-herself.html

[dominicansoul]

that name is too hard to say

[Groo the Wanderer]

i find that very weird given that God, His angels, and His saints all speak Latin. Everyone knows that!

[Totus Tuus]

I don't really see anything weird about that. Spaniards probably changed it to "Guadalupe" along the way because that's what it sounds like (it actually does sound like that to me). The place in Mexico is called Guadalupe so I don't think it was an Aztec-->English translation.

[Lisa]

If you didn't read the article, this is where it gets good:

The bishop, not speaking Nahuatl (and probably pretty excited) said, “did you say … did you say… Guadalupe?” and probably the humble Juan said, “no… Coatlexopeuh.” So (as we have seen the precedent set with the naming of the Yucatán), the bishop declared that this is Our Lady of “Guadalupe” (which is a place in Spain and has its own revered image of the Virgin Mary). After all “Coatlexopeuh” when pronounced does sound a lot like “Guadalupe.”

What was the significance of this episode? Until 1531 the overwhelming majority of Aztec Indians had resisted conversion to Christianity and continued with their sacrificial practices. However, as the message of Our Lady spread, an estimated 10,000,000 indigenous people converted to the faith and human sacrifices were eradicated. So… you are waiting for it… what does “Coatlexopeuh” mean in Nahuatl?: “I WHO CRUSH, STAMP OUT, OR DESTROY THE SERPENT.” “I who crush, stamp out, or destroy the serpent.

So now you know why I have a special devotion to Our Lady of Coatlexopeuh. She is indeed a powerful intercessor and we should look to her for intercession especially whenever we see evil working to gain a foothold in our lives or our society – particularly whenever the dignity of life itself is under attack.

Edited by Lisa, 23 May 2012 - 04:47 PM.

[Maximilianus]

The story makes sense to me because the European colonizer's standard practice was to transliterate, butcher and adopt native names and words. They also used place names from the Old World. The first Our lady of Guadalupe is in Extremadura Spain, home to many Conquistadors.

Edited by Maximilianus, 23 May 2012 - 05:29 PM.

[princessgianna]

I am amazed each time I read something new about our Lady of Guadalupe. She is like such a...lady. So classy and forthright! So amesome and strong! So epic!

“I WHO CRUSH, STAMP OUT, OR DESTROY THE SERPENT.”

True epic Mama!

Edited by princessgianna, 23 May 2012 - 09:58 PM.

[vee8]

The story makes sense to me because the European colonizer's standard practice was to transliterate, butcher and adopt native names and words. They also used place names from the Old World. The first Our lady of Guadalupe is in Extremadura Spain, home to many Conquistadors.

Im going to rename Puerto Rico as Canada because it is much easier to say You're welcome.

Edited by vee8, 23 May 2012 - 09:59 PM.

[USAirwaysIHS]

Im going to rename Puerto Rico as Canada because it is much easier to say You're welcome.

But that doesn't make any sense. It makes sense for the evolution to Guadelupe, because for one thing, Spanish doesn't have the "tla" sound in any native word. And, I'm not that familiar with the aspiration of Nahuatl consonants, but in English, the k is always aspirated and the g sound is never aspirated, which means that when we transliterate from certain languages (many of them from the Indian subcontinent), we transcribe them "wrong", because in many of those languages, k and g can both be either aspirated or unaspirated. The k sound at the start of the Nahuatl word may sound (probably sounds) more like the g in Spanish (particularly if the k is unaspirated, which makes it softer, almost like the near-j sound of the g in Spanish).

In fact, many anglophones do change the name of Puerto Rico to something closer to "Porto Rico", because it's easier to say the Po sound than the Pue sound (never mind the omission of the trilled "r"s, which indeed is a different sound from our r). It's not necessarily an affront to the Nahuatl people that the Spanish changed the sounds when it was brought into their language, just as it wasn't an affront to the French when their sorbet became our sherbet or when our escalator became "esukarētā" to the Japanese. It's just the nature of language.

[FuturePriest387]

Yeah... My cathedral is "Guadalupe" and it's staying that way, as I cannot even pronounce the other one. Aztec words are just so weird. They have words that start with "tla" and it is just unnatural. I mean seriously. Aztecs are so selfish for not using English...

[Maximilianus]

Im going to rename Puerto Rico as Canada because it is much easier to say You're welcome.

Yay another name to add to the list.

Since Canada comes from the Huron word kanata, you would be returning PR to a name of native origin. PR's was called Borikén by the Taino people. Christopher Columbus Called it San Juan Bautista.

Edited by Maximilianus, 23 May 2012 - 11:50 PM.

[vee8]

[dominicansoul]

i just call Our Lady "Mom"




i can't say what i call Canada without getting a warning....

[Groo the Wanderer]

Yeah... My cathedral is "Guadalupe" and it's staying that way, as I cannot even pronounce the other one. Aztec words are just so weird. They have words that start with "tla" and it is just unnatural. I mean seriously. Aztecs are so selfish for not using English...

only fair. they ate people, so we eat their words