41 replies to this topic

[apostolicfathers]

I have a new book that is very well-documented and makes a great case against praying or receiving the Sacraments from Heretics and Schismatics. The SSPX have disobeyed BXVI and fell into Schism and those that adhered to their Schism were excommunicated too!

http://www.amazon.co...39612967&sr=1-2

I know some people at SSPX chapels and they state that they are Catholic. Oddly, after reading the many testamonies in this book it is hard to see how one can be Catholic and reject the Papacy.

Communion with Heretics is sinful and after reading Rome Has Spoken by William DeTucci I was conviced never to approach the SSPX unless they repented and came back to the Church.

The matter of Communicatio in Sacris seems so forgotten today. I went to a friend's house and he said that he prays with Protestants all the time. Funny, how can one say he is Catholic and pray with one outside the Church?

Oh well! Food for thought!

[Hubertus]

Receiving the sacraments from a heretical organization like the SSPX is a grave matter, yes. But how does that apply to praying with Protestants? We're praying to the same God. As long as they aren't prayers like, "By faith alone are we saved by your grace, which you taught us through the Bible alone, and you're the only person we can pray to," then I'm not sure what the problem is. =P

I'm not familiar with this Communicatio in Sacris that you mentioned, though.. What is it?

[r2Dtoo]

Um, is praying with someone actually the same thing as giving a heretic/schismatic Communion? What?

[FuturePriest387]

The SSPX actually have valid sacraments. You can go to them when you have no other options, or if you would like to go to a Latin Mass, though it is discouraged in the latter case.

[r2Dtoo]

Wasn't the original question about whether or not it was ok to pray with Protestants though?

[FuturePriest387]

I don't know.

[r2Dtoo]

I think it was.

[FuturePriest387]

It's definitely fine to pray with Protestants so long as it stays within neutral lines. If they start mixing it up with their personal beliefs then it might be good to either ask they keep it neutral or pray quietly in your head.

[r2Dtoo]

Would you pray the Hail Mary with a Protestant whore you meant while doing street evangelization?

[Byzantine]

It is my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) that at one point it was forbidden as a matter of discipline to pray with heretics. However, I think that discipline has been relaxed. At any rate, heretics might even be encouraged to pray with us (got this from an Orthodox article) because it brings them in touch with the True Church or something. But I think the discipline has been relaxed.

But perhaps not for the Orthodox. Read the second Q&A. http://byztex.blogsp...fr-vasiliy.html

Don't quote me on this unless someone who knows stuff backs me up.

[Hubertus]

Interesting.. Does anyone have any sources on past restrictions of praying with heretics, and Communicatio in Sacris? I'm not finding much with Google except from fringe sedevecantist/conclavist groups.

[MIkolbe]

I think a line is drawn between prayer and worship; wherein prayer is allowable, even desirable...but worship is not to be used as a way/means (indiscriminately) to restore unity.

[Byzantine]

Also important to remember that there should be no sharing in the Sacraments. Although it's permitted with Eastern Orthodox in certain circumstances.

[Groo the Wanderer]

I went to a friend's house and he said that he prays with Protestants all the time. Funny, how can one say he is Catholic and pray with one outside the Church?

Um. Dunno where the floopy that comes from. My wife is not Catholic, yet we pray together daily, as a family should.

Mark 9:39-40.....But Jesus said "Do not forbid him; for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon after to speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is for us"

There is but one Body, one Church and all who are baptized in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit are part of it, even if they do not know it or believe it. Don;t diss our seperated brethren if they have not willingly separated themselves. and don;t act all high and mighty above them. I personally am of the opinion that there are more Catholics in hell than Protestants.

[Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye]

A holy priest told me that jesus still comes into the precious body and blood and is also present in the absolution in confession in the case of a heretic because he comes for the sake of the faithfull. Unsure though if it is well known and the sect or person has been seperated from rome/excommunicated or possibly pending/in limbo, in my heart jesus will be present in both sacraments if the faithful hope for the heretics repentance or a peaceful solution or possibly the heretics delusion has strayed the sheep whom are now lost and than i do hope jesus would be present for there sake. Rome as far as i'm aware still sees sspx and the orthodox churches as valid but not a, i can't remember the proper term so i will use this word unfortunately instead, it is a bastard. So valid birth but a bastard. That is a way stupid attempt to portray the proper church word for this, the same holy priest told me this but obviously not with that termenology.

[CMoon72]

I have a new book that is very well-documented and makes a great case against praying or receiving the Sacraments from Heretics and Schismatics. The SSPX have disobeyed BXVI and fell into Schism and those that adhered to their Schism were excommunicated too!

http://www.amazon.co...39612967&sr=1-2

I know some people at SSPX chapels and they state that they are Catholic. Oddly, after reading the many testamonies in this book it is hard to see how one can be Catholic and reject the Papacy.

Communion with Heretics is sinful and after reading Rome Has Spoken by William DeTucci I was conviced never to approach the SSPX unless they repented and came back to the Church.

The matter of Communicatio in Sacris seems so forgotten today. I went to a friend's house and he said that he prays with Protestants all the time. Funny, how can one say he is Catholic and pray with one outside the Church?

Oh well! Food for thought!

Interesting...First, the SSPX are not nor have they ever been in schism, despite what this deTucci fella has to say. What Lefevbre did was tantamount to a schismatic act, but a schism has never been declared. That is a HUGE distinction to make. The SSPX have never disobeyed Benedict XVI, the SSPX disobeyed John Paul II, but that was reconciled in 2009. And discussion of such was put to rest with the document lifting the excommunications.

Please don't slander them like that, while they might be in an irregular state for the moment, they will be reconciled soon and they will excercise a regular ministry.

To put your eggs in just one basket with regard to the Church is dangerous. I tend to read what the Church has said and I go off of that, not some guy who most people have never heard of.

How do you know that a Protestant is a heretic? Do they fill all of the qualifications? Are they material heretics or are they formal heretics? That makes a difference. In order to be a heretic, one must first be a Catholic. Is this Protestant a fallen away Catholic? Are you receiving Holy Communion? Because that is what Communio in Sacris really deals with.

To simply pray with a Protestant isn't sinful. But allowing them to influence your faith and to distort the truth is. So, if you are not strong enough to theologically distinguish, then you should just stay away.

[MIkolbe]

good points, andy.

[CMoon72]

good points, andy.

Who's andy?

[Lil Red]

Who's andy?

[USAirwaysIHS]

Who's andy?

It actually might not be Andy. He doesn't seem to be vitriolic enough.