67 replies to this topic

[arfink]

Has anyone else noticed that people are increasingly insisting that Catholicism is inherently dangerous? Their arguments sound much like the arguments for why Islam or any other religion is inherently dangerous. Here are ones I have had thrown at me in the past week alone:

1. Catholicism demands obedience, which is poisonous to progress and freedom.
2. Catholicism can only exist by forcing its beliefs on others through violence and/or the brainwashing of children.
3. Catholicism actively seeks to destroy the world by denying science and "raping the environment."
4. Catholicism is evil because it hates all gays and if the church had its way it would kill them all.

And on and on. It reminds me of what Ross Douthat says:

"If you want to fine Catholic hospitals for following Catholic teaching, or prevent Jewish parents from circumcising their sons, or ban Chick-fil-A in Boston, then don’t tell religious people that you respect our freedoms. Say what you really think: that the exercise of our religion threatens all that’s good and decent, and that you’re going to use the levers of power to bend us to your will."

In the space of a year the public perception of Catholics has gone from largely ignored religious oddities to flaming fundamentalist nutjobs who plan to bring the entire world down in flaming rubble and dance amongst the flames. (FIRE! Oh Yeeeeah!)

This is the same sort of thing that happened to the Jews right before the Holocaust.

Edited by arfink, 31 July 2012 - 05:21 PM.

[CatherineM]

I've been warning people for a long time that a major persecution is coming. We can arm ourselves by knowing what the church teaches, knowing why the church teaches it, being educated in apologetics so we can defend the teachings, and most importantly we need to live the teachings faithfully, even if we disagree with something.

I think we are approaching a time when we will be asked to suffer for our faith. Seriously suffer.

[Clare~Therese]

I agree with what you & CatherineM say. I'd give your posts props but I ran out of props for today.

I knew society's attitude was getting worse towards us but I never quite put it together like that. But you've helped me see how the dots connect a bit now, so to speak.
Viva Cristo Rey, amigos. Creo nosotros estamos Cristeros Americanos ahora.
One time my Confessor told me, "Don't go looking for martyrdom now. You'll have plenty of chances for that when you're older." Maybe he was right.

[God the Father]

Government is dangerous.

[ConfusedCatholicGuy]

I have talked to several friends about Catholic persecution. It seems like it is the only type of discrimination that is seen by most people as an ok thing. There can't be anything against Jews because of the Holocaust, Muslims are 'misunderstood' and yet Catholics seem to still be an ok target.

When I told people that I was going to enter seminary, the first thing out of their mouths was usually some comment about how I should be sure not to abuse little boys. Then there are the not so subtle references to the Crusades or other missionary work and talk about how Catholics actively went out and destroyed cultures in an effort to convert them. As if that is a terrible thing, trying to bring more people to the truth.

And even other Christians discriminate against us. I have applied to Christian organizations and was turned away when it became clear that I was solidly Catholic and was not going to waver on some of our 'sterner doctrines'. And I have had Christian friends try to convert me from Catholicism because they had been taught that the Church has rotted and that much of our teachings go against the Bible. I have talked in depth to these individuals about the information they have about us Catholics and who told them about it. It became apparent that these teachers were making an active effort to turn their students against the Church.

I am sure that I'm not the only one who has noticed this. I hope that we can spread the word that we are not 'Satan worshipers' or anything like that. I pray that the persecution that will come will end with a better understanding of the Church and its teachings to all the world.

[Winchester]

Catholicism is dangerous because every Catholic is required to build a nuclear device as part of his service hours for Confirmation.

[morostheos]

Francis Cardinal George stated, “I expect to die in bed, my successor will die in prison and his successor will die a martyr in the public square."

Batten down the hatches, rough seas ahead!!

[arfink]

Catholicism is dangerous because every Catholic is required to build a nuclear device as part of his service hours for Confirmation.

I am going to pretend I didn't see that.

[Ice_nine]

Let's not get too hasty now, that's a good way to get a self-fulfilling prophecy started.

[BG45]

Catholicism is dangerous because every Catholic is required to build a nuclear device as part of his service hours for Confirmation.

You mean like this kid did in his backyard shed (number 4)?

[beaverman]

With gay marriage becoming a civil right, things will get very difficult for Catholic charities and hospitals. They might lose their tax exemption because they will be seen as a political organization and not a humanitarian one.

[MIkolbe]

Jesus said it was gonna be like this.

[Anomaly]

With gay marriage becoming a civil right, things will get very difficult for Catholic charities and hospitals. They might lose their tax exemption because they will be seen as a political organization and not a humanitarian one.

So get over it. The Catholic Church should buck-up and not compromise their principles just to avoid paying taxes. This tax exempt status standing is making them Thralls to the State. Just give Cesar his money and do what your morals call you to do and then work to regain tax exempt status.

[dUSt]

Why don't the government just get out of the marriage business all together? Let's let the churches perform marriages, and the government issue civil union certificates. Make it the same for everybody. Men and women, men and men, women and women, men and women + women, whatever. They all get to be legally civil union-fied. Then find a church to get married. Gay people can go to a gay church to get married. Pet lovers can go to their "pets are people too" church to get married to their pets. Everybody is happy.

[ThePenciledOne]

Why don't the government just get out of the marriage business all together? Let's let the churches perform marriages, and the government issue civil union certificates. Make it the same for everybody. Men and women, men and men, women and women, men and women + women, whatever. They all get to be legally civil union-fied. Then find a church to get married. Gay people can go to a gay church to get married. Pet lovers can go to their "pets are people too" church to get married to their pets. Everybody is happy.

Basically what I've been saying....

Side note: Who honestly cares how society is going? Sometimes we become too concerned with persecution and the like and forget what our mission is as a Catholic. It's like we become protective of our own skins and in the process we end up caring to much for what the future may bring. I think we need to take a chill pill and just let the Spirit work as He will. Enough of the drawing lines in the sand and being in opposition to everyone, there's no need for it.

[KnightofChrist]

Why don't the government just get out of the marriage business all together? Let's let the churches perform marriages, and the government issue civil union certificates. Make it the same for everybody. Men and women, men and men, women and women, men and women + women, whatever. They all get to be legally civil union-fied. Then find a church to get married. Gay people can go to a gay church to get married. Pet lovers can go to their "pets are people too" church to get married to their pets. Everybody is happy.

You're probably just joking around. Even so the Church wouldn't approve of those things.

CCC 2105 The duty of offering God genuine worship concerns man both individually and socially. This is "the traditional Catholic teaching on the moral duty of individuals and societies toward the true religion and the one Church of Christ." By constantly evangelizing men, the Church works toward enabling them "to infuse the Christian spirit into the mentality and mores, laws and structures of the communities in which [they] live." The social duty of Christians is to respect and awaken in each man the love of the true and the good. It requires them to make known the worship of the one true religion which subsists in the Catholic and apostolic Church. Christians are called to be the light of the world. Thus, the Church shows forth the kingship of Christ over all creation and in particular over human societies.

[tomasio127]

The "tolerant people" will not be happy to simply have all the rights they want; not as long as we refuse to applaud their sin lifestyle.

[Winchester]

Where's the one about "Thou shalt get State permission before receiving sacraments"?

It's a shame Catholics joined the pietists.

[Annie12]

Hey! I'll be a martyr for the church! (I wouldn't want to die by a bullet though... that would hurt pretty bad...)


But, arfink, You have a very good point. I wonder how many Catholics actually see this in the future? I do. Hasn't it been predicted in Marian apparitions and stuff?

The church teaches that there will be an apostasy from the church before the arrival of the antichrist. I dunno if this is what is happening but if it is it kinda makes sense.

Edited by Annie12, 01 August 2012 - 12:34 PM.

[Anomaly]

You're probably just joking around. Even so the Church wouldn't approve of those things.




CCC 2105 The duty of offering God genuine worship concerns man both individually and socially. This is "the traditional Catholic teaching on the moral duty of individuals and societies toward the true religion and the one Church of Christ." By constantly evangelizing men, the Church works toward enabling them "to infuse the Christian spirit into the mentality and mores, laws and structures of the communities in which [they] live." The social duty of Christians is to respect and awaken in each man the love of the true and the good. It requires them to make known the worship of the one true religion which subsists in the Catholic and apostolic Church. Christians are called to be the light of the world. Thus, the Church shows forth the kingship of Christ over all creation and in particular over human societies.

And then there is "The Rest of the Story":

2106 "Nobody may be forced to act against his convictions, nor is anyone to be restrained from acting in accordance with his conscience in religious matters in private or in public, alone or in association with others, within due limits."³⁴ This right is based on the very nature of the human person, whose dignity enables him freely to assent to the divine truth which transcends the temporal order. For this reason it "continues to exist even in those who do not live up to their obligation of seeking the truth and adhering to it."³⁵
2107 "If because of the circumstances of a particular people special civil recognition is given to one religious community in the constitutional organization of a state, the right of all citizens and religious communities to religious freedom must be recognized and respected as well."³⁶
2108 The right to religious liberty is neither a moral license to adhere to error, nor a supposed right to error,³⁷ but rather a natural right of the human person to civil liberty, i.e., immunity, within just limits, from external constraint in religious matters by political authorities. This natural right ought to be acknowledged in the juridical order of society in such a way that it constitutes a civil right.³⁸
[/url]<a href="javascript:openWindow('cr/2109.htm');">2109 The right to religious liberty can of itself be neither unlimited nor limited only by a "public order" conceived in a positivist or naturalist manner.³⁹ The "due limits" which are inherent in it must be determined for each social situation by political prudence, according to the requirements of the common good, and ratified by the civil authority in accordance with "legal principles which are in conformity with the objective moral order."⁴⁰


Catholics have to defer to the will of the majority and political realities of what principles are understood by society as being for the common good and what is the objective moral order. In other words, religions may choose to define what a marriage is (or isn't), teach it's people accordingly, and work to charitably change the public majority opinion. The religion can insist on the government recognizing the 'Religious Marriage' in the civil context, but it's a two edged sword when you read 2107, that other religions have the same right to be recognized.

What dUSt is saying, is the Government should not be allowed to tell the religion what a 'Religious Marriage' is or isn't, but the religions can ask the Government to recognize the 'Religiouis Marriage' in the civil context.