53 replies to this topic

[jazzytakara]

I really have trouble understanding where these people are coming from. To me restricting abortion isn't destroying women's rights, its preventing murder. I have heard some say that it ensures 'life, liberty, freedom, and the pursuit of happiness' but how can something that destroys the life of an unborn child be for life. Also I have noticed a double standard in this debate too, why does only the women get to make the decision that effects three people (the father and the child). There are many cases where the father of the baby wants to keep the child, but the mother always wins the battle as its 'her' body. Yes it is, but it is 'his' child too. I just don't think it is fair that only one person gets a choice in the matter, she chooses for her unborn child who can't voice his.her opinion, and she gets to choose over the father because its her body. If you didn't want to have a child, than practice safe sex at the very least if you can't abstain. I understand rape is a different situation, but just because a child was born out of hate, doesn't mean it should die, adoption is a viable reason. And its sad that so many children are being aborted, yet many couples struggle desperately to conceive. Abortion is simply a product of a sexually liberalized culture, many seem to be wanting all of the pleasure but none of the 'consquences' or results of this behaviour. No one should have to die because of someone elses irresponsibility. It isn't right..

Can anyone help me understand this and advise me on what to do when people attack me for being pro-life? What should a catholic-christian do in today's society when our beliefs are being attacked?

[sixpence]

I usually go from the angle that I believe the child has the same rights in and out of the womb and go from there.
If they are of the naturalist/atheist-darwinist philosophy...I might get into how it does not make too much sense from a fitness perspective..but that is just in special cases

[jazzytakara]

Even before I became serious about my faith, I never understood or could differentiate between me now with me in the womb, was I not the same person, alive and well then as I am now. Sure different states of my life, but our bodies constantly change as we age. Its also frustrating when I'm told that anyone who is pro-life supports the war on women. I'm a woman, so I like having rights and freedoms, but I don't think anyone should have the right to end the life of another. Some argue that capital punishment is the same thing, but it isn't (I don't support the death sentence either) what crimes has an unborn baby made that warrants death?

I think I am so bothered by it because its everywhere I look and read. I also have to take an ethics class this year, abortion being one of the topics to be discussed. I can only pray that I will practice prudence and temperance in this class and speak in a way that the Lord would approve rather than insulting others in a fit of emotion when my point isn't getting across. I am sort of worried about this class, the classes I have had so far have been really atheism central, so I am not sure how this class where these debates come up will be. I will never deny my faith to them though, others have tried, but in the end I realized it wasn't them I needed to prove anything to.

[Theresita Nerita]

The other thing that bothers me about people calling the pro-life stance "anti-woman" is that legalized abortion doesn't actually give women more power over their bodies, but less.

I learned this when i discovered that 2 of the 4 women I know who've had abortions didn't want them. They were talked into them by their husbands/boyfriends who threatened to leave or called them "selfish" for wanting to keep the baby and guilted them into the abortion. So while abortion-rights people may have originally intended to give women more control, in fact they've just given men another weapon against women and another way to walk away from their responsibilities. And who loses out (besides the baby)? The woman.

And how many women that I know are happy they had an abortion, years later? 0. So, from my admittedly anecdotal evidence, abortion doesn't have a great track-record for improving womens' lives in any conceivable way.

[jazzytakara]

That kind of reminds me of this post secret this past week:

http://3.bp.blogspot...k/s1600/rip.jpg

[Papist]

Ask the person if he/she would fight against the legal killing of a 2 year old. Wait for their answer. Wait. Now say. "I see. We agree, but I just believe the baby is human a little before you do."

[Papist]

Or are you asking what the deal with the War on Women phrase?

[jazzytakara]

Both, as being pro-life is being viewed as attacking women's rights, thus the War on Women. Thus why I am looking for coherant rebuttels to this. And I really don't understand abortion or how pro-life is an attack on women.

[arfink]

That kind of reminds me of this post secret this past week:

http://3.bp.blogspot...k/s1600/rip.jpg

Seeing that image just made me feel dizzy and sick. I'm a guy, and I cannot possibly imagine the anguish of being in that situation...

[phatcatholic]

Abortion isn't about a woman being able to make a choice about her body. She made that choice when she had sex. Abortion is about making a choice about another person's body, the one in the womb. The problem is, no one wants to ever live with the consequences of their actions. They want the sexual gratification without the responsibility. They want to have their cake and eat it too. The whole "my body, my choice" line is just a red herring.

[Ed Normile]

Another conundrum, why then do they prosecute a person for 2 murders if they have killed a woman carrying a child in utero ? Seems like in this age they would give that person an award.

ed

[Socrates]

It's more liberal Democrat political the essence of cow.

If you oppose more funding of abortion, Catholic schools being forced to pay insurance for contraceptives, or taxpayer subsidizing of free condoms for 30-year-old schoolgirls, you're part of the "War on Women." (Or is that "War on Wymmyn"?)

It shows how pathetic the Democratic Party is that they're making this nonsense the center of Obama's re-election campaign (to detract from unimportant details like Obama's actual record on the economy, and his trashing of the Constitution)
It's even more pathetic if this tactic proves successful.

If the Dems win on this bilge, our country is officially flooped.

[the171]

That kind of reminds me of this post secret this past week:

http://3.bp.blogspot...k/s1600/rip.jpg

I know a girl whose grandmother forced her to have an abortion. She is not pro-life, but you can see the pain on her face when it is brought up. It really is sad.

[jazzytakara]

I know a girl whose grandmother forced her to have an abortion. She is not pro-life, but you can see the pain on her face when it is brought up. It really is sad.

My younger sister and my mom went through similar. My sister had a pregnancy scare, and my mom who has been pro-life all of her life, convinced my sister that if she were to have a positive pregnancy test to have an abortion. It seemed that once the teen pregnancy risk was personal, all morals were tossed out the door. Thankfully my sister's results were negative. I just remembered how shocked I was at my mom convincing my sister to do this, yet still advocating sexual intercourse none the less. =( The were viewing a human life as a burden, there was no love. So I can only imagine the sorrow of someone forced to do this would be like. That isn't have freedom at all.

[cmotherofpirl]

The bottom line is the notion that there are too many people in this world and the population growth and eventually the total number of humans needs to be reduced.This underlies and explains all the behavior of the US government all over the world.

[jazzytakara]

The bottom line is the notion that there are too many people in this world and the population growth and eventually the total number of humans needs to be reduced.This underlies and explains all the behavior of the US government all over the world.

Although over population is a risk, I think the world needs to realize that ending innocent lives is not the solution. There are a variety of other methods that can be exercised to curb the risk of over population, like abstinance, NFP, etc. I guess maybe its more of a problem of society wanting all of the pleasure and instant gratification, but not wanting the results of such actions. Its just sad that babies are being punished for society's irresponsibility.

[ConfusedCatholicGuy]

Abortion isn't about a woman being able to make a choice about her body. She made that choice when she had sex. Abortion is about making a choice about another person's body, the one in the womb. The problem is, no one wants to ever live with the consequences of their actions. They want the sexual gratification without the responsibility. They want to have their cake and eat it too. The whole "my body, my choice" line is just a red herring.

I think that this is the heart of the issue. People want to get the pleasure of having sex without the imminent outcome that the pleasure they felt means. They want pleasure but don't want responsibility for what that pleasure entails. Forget the life that they just created, it will adversely affect MY life. Oh no, I didn't think of the consequences when I had the sex. Now I have the choice of either killing the life inside of me or changing my life to accommodate the life that I created. You did the act now take responsibility for what you created!

[Ice_nine]

pray. People have truly lost there way with all this moral relevance carp. It's such an inconsistent belief system but people can't think past the immediate, and I mean very immediate, surface of that idea and it has tainted many sectors of public and private morality. If everyone is his own moral arbiter, it comes down to a mere battle of wills with the strongest (as opposed to the kindest, the wisest etc) win out by brute force. And the weakest suffer. In some cultures it's been the physically disabled, the mentally ill, infants, the poor, the ill, the old. For ours it's the unborn. It's sad.



On a side note, every time I see that "It's a scary time to be a woman" propaganda where they brand Romney as a radical (Oh SRSLY? people need to learn that radical doesn't mean "someone who disagrees with me") I want to vomit my entire digestive system out of my mouth.

Ladies, if you are afraid of Romney, please grow a pair of ovaries. Please. You're making the rest of us look bad.

[jazzytakara]

I saw a sign that read "Keep your rosaries away from my ovaries", people seem to want all the freedom and rights to harmful things, but in the process of claiming said rights they wish to eradicate the rights of others who disagree with them. Our culture is going down the drain and I fear we are only at the beginning of this downward spiral. The murder of innocent children and the hatred towards Christianity is only the beginning. Lord help us all.

[arfink]

Lord help us all.

He will. The culture might need to implode first before it gets better, but I have already been witness to the ongoing purification and strengthening of Catholic marriages that is happening as a direct result of this persecution.

The stars shine brightest when the sky is completely dark, you know.