Regarding Leaving Communities

[MarysLittleFlower]

I've never entered or left a community so I really don't know what it's like. I see that many here have visited different orders, but also lived with them for a time to discern and then came back, seeing that it's not God's will, or being prevented from contuining for a reason.

I don't want to question God's guidance at all with this question.. I know that He has a plan for each person which might include much discernment and trying out different things for their own growth, or to ultimately discern their vocation. It's probably a normal part of discerning.

I've just noticed, that sometimes a person feels like they are really called somewhere, and then when they live there for a bit, they see that it's not God's will after all and leave. I think it must be very courageous, to enter a community, and it's very courageous to leave if you feel God's will is actually found elsewhere. I think maybe the second one must be even harder than the first, because you have to discern again. I realize that sometimes people do have a vocation but something happens and they leave anyway, but since I can't assume this about anyone, I am only talking about the first option: if God actually guides a person back to the world, or to another community.

I guess my question is, am I understanding correctly that it's all part of the journey in their discernment, or spiritual growth? God uses everything for good I believe... and His will is not always for us to know. Am I correct that God could truly call someone to an order, and then tell them to leave, just because they WERE meant to be there, but not forever? Who knows, what my journey would be like.

I think it must be so hard to leave a community after being there for some time. I've heard that God can give peace about this, which I'm sure helps a lot. Maybe it's the type of experience that can help to love God more because you stay with Him despite a difficulty and trial. I just hope i'll have courage too, if I feel God calling me somewhere, to go there and not question Him. I really have a lack of experience in this so I'm not sure how i would feel, but I hope I would choose to follow Him.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? thanks.

Edited November 8, 2012 by MarysLittleFlower

[OnlySunshine]

I've only left a community during the trial period so I don't know what it is like to leave after you've been there for a while. I did, however, witness two friends leave their communities and the first one re-entered. The second one entered one community but had to leave because of health issues. She entered another community and found out they were a little too strict for her. She decided not to pursue religious life again until the first community got in touch with her and asked her if she wanted to try again since it was not her fault that she left. She re-entered and is now a 1st year novice. It was very, very difficult seeing her in such turmoil. She was so embarrassed (even though she should not have been) that she withdrew from her friends. It was awful. Now she is the happiest person alive.

It is my understanding that some people feel called to enter a specific place with the intention of staying there forever only to discover that God was calling them temporarily. Maybe there was a lesson that they needed to learn. I know, when I left my first community during the trial period, I believe God allowed me to go to show me I wasn't called there because I applied without really truly knowing what I was getting into. I had only been discerning for a little over a year and rushed into things. I learned to take it slow and I am in a much better position to discern.

I know there are a few people here who have entered and then realized God was calling them back out in the world again. When God calls, you respond, no matter the cost. Hopefully, they will feel comfortable enough to share their story.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Thanks for the reply! I see what you mean, about there being a lesson needing to be learned.

[dominicansoul]

Where ever you are at the present moment, it is because God wants you there. Simple as that. For those who've entered even more than once and found ourselves out in the world after a few years or more, its simply because we are resigned to follow God where ever HE leads... entering wasn't a "mistake" and there are no "what ifs"--- it is what it is. I entered because God wanted me to, He wanted me there in the convent and then HE wanted me outta there. Everyone's journey is unique and not everyone is going to have the same experiences. For me, it was extremely difficult and a painful experience the first time. When I entered a second time and left, it was less difficult. I call it "growth." I am very much at peace where I am right now. God is good, and He never leaves me. Where ever I go, He leads ...

[das8949]

As I wrote in a PM today to someone, I see that Reliious Life is much different now than pack in the earlier decades. There is not the stima once borne by women who felt they were called back into the world. I see the noviatiate today as a very spirtual finishing school in which you pursuee spiritual and personal rowth as well as deepen your understanding of your faith and relationship with Jesus. I was tauht that there are indeed lessons that we learn along the way and people whose paths are somehow predetermined to be crossed. We receive gold from some and silver from others. I personally have come to see life as a series of stepping stones that we follow - sometimes we come to a junction or a fork in the road and we must best decided with the race of od which direction to o in. One thin I have learned about od is that he does allow doevers.

[AccountDeleted]

The thing I've learned from several attempts at religious life is that no matter what happens, it's all about trusting in God and never doubting His love. I can't deny that leaving religious life feels like failing and it hurts - but that's a natural, human response to anything that doesn't work out the way we expect. The secret for me has been to pick myself up from the dust, then pick up my Cross again and keep on walking. When it gets really tough, I think about Jesus doing the very same thing, falling and getting up again. He didn't choose a life without sorrow or suffering - but instead He set us an example of how to do it - with love and trust in God.

Suffering can be redemptive if it is accepted with the understanding that God allows all things for our good. It might not seem that way at the time, but that's usually because we focus on this life while He is focusing on our eternal life. So go forward with your discernment and trust that no matter where you go and no matter what happens, He is with you every step of the way. There will be times of great joy and happiness, but also ones of disillusionment and sorrow. All of it is part of the fabric of God's tapestry and adds to its richness and beauty.

No god is as great as our God.

[Orans]

[quote name='MarysLittleFlower' timestamp='1352403073' post='2506611']
I guess my question is, am I understanding correctly that it's all part of the journey in their discernment, or spiritual growth? God uses everything for good I believe... and His will is not always for us to know. Am I correct that God could truly call someone to an order, and then tell them to leave, just because they WERE meant to be there, but not forever? Who knows, what my journey would be like.
...
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? thanks.
[/quote]

I would say that the most important thing we can do in our life, and with our life, is to seriously engage in the spiritual journey. This implies the discernment of a calling from God, and the dedication to pursue it and to nurture a conscious relationship with God.

Besides prayer and reflection, in order to succeed in this endeavor we need HUMILITY, TRUST, and RISK TAKING so that we remain truly listening and obedient to God's guidance in the "dance" that is the Journey.

Paradoxically, to succeed in this task we have to forget about being successful -in human terms. What is paramount is to remain [b]true[/b] to oneself and to our deepest desire, which was sown in our soul by God as a compass. Here is where discernment has to become not just an isolated practice but an ongoing exercise and a way of living.

What I mean with all this is that we cannot set for a lower goal than to grow into the full stature of our call to holiness and union with God. Being a member of a religious community, per se, is not a worthy goal of a Christian life. It may be helpful to achieve the goal of holiness, it may be a worthy means to the goal but never to be confused with the goal.
God works with every person in a very personalized way with very common means and circumstances. In this perspective, the failure in becoming or remaining a member of a religious community, when lived deeply in God, might actually catapult us into the ultimate goal through apparent failure.

So the question for me might rather be, would I remain faithful to re-visit God's invitations in my life as well as my motivations, and would I be open to take the risk of leaving everything behind, -everything!, including my own view of how holiness should look like, in order to remain faithful to God and to myself? Would I be open to be stripped of what I most cherish and still trust God and follow Him taking new risks?

Without humility I would not be able to be free enough to overcome other people's opinions or judgments, or even my own fears and judgments, and the difficulties of the journey and of life.

So ultimately, yes, I believe that the response to your question is a big Yes! God can call us into a religious community in order to allow some growth, some learning, some purification, some healing, and then, when that's achieved -in God's Plan and Wisdom, not mine- God can continue nudging us out of our comfort zone and unsettle us into the next step of our personal Journey.

Peace!

[carmenchristi]

There are so many great replies to this topic already that I don't have much to add. I do have to say was that not only were the years in the convent helpful to me despite the suffering that I went through in that time, but ultimately the decision to leave, the discernment process the trust that I had to have to start over again... This was all a super intense lesson in following Christ.

I continue to believe that I was called, and that The Lord would have asked me to remain. Human weakness (not my own) got in the way of that. I often ask Our Lord why he didn't call me to a different community after I left. I don't believe that I am now following his plan B. and yet I still think that plan A would have been very different if not for certain events. In the end, it's useless to ask " what if?" But it's most important that where God has placed me today is where he wants me today, and what he is revealing to me about my vocation NOW is the path I must follow.

[CatherineM]

My spiritual director used to help women who were leaving. These were sisters who were leaving after decades. Much different.

[carmenchristi]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1352496653' post='2507371']
My spiritual director used to help women who were leaving. These were sisters who were leaving after decades. Much different.
[/quote]

I wasn't in for quite a decade, but close. Many of my sisters who also left were in for 15-20 years. Not that I believe God often calls people to leave after that amount of time, but in this case at least I really admire them, because for many it was a courageous thing to do. Also in this sort of situation there is the "shame" that one faces when it would appear to many that one has "looked back".
It can be a sensitive subject. I myself had to tell my family to please stop introducing me to people as the daughter ex-nun returned from the dead... I mean Italy.
It's still hard to enter new situations without people finding out because they want to know what I have done since finishing high school...
Anyway, sorry for venting online topics like these always make me realize that there is still a lot of healing that has to happen. I guess it's a good thing because otherwise I concentrate on the positive ( which is good!) but forget (because I don't want to think about) what still needs to be resolved. Prayers for me please!

[maximillion]

Asking for exclaustration was the hardest thing I ever did and took me more than several months of intense prayer and seeking His Will before I was ready to take such a step.
I was asked time and again by my Superiors if nothing could be done. I was sent on retreat, every support and opportunity for spiritual growth, according to the lights of my Superiors, was afforded me, but over time I became convinced that the community was making mistakes in the changes to our liturgy and lifestyle, and I was tired of being the go between for two priests who argued their case for or against reform through me. In the end I was worn down and spiritually exhausted before I actually left the community.
It is more than possible that I ought to have waited it out, that it was my own spiritual arrogance that carried me out of community and back into the world. Only one thing holds and has held me back from such condemnation of myself....within seven years the community was suppressed, because once I left, it seemed the floodgates opened and many many sisters followed me. (We were 48 in community at the time I left).

Once back in the world, I concluded that since this is where He had carried me, this was where I was now meant to be. However, as I think people may know from other posts of mine, I had made Perpetual Vows, and I had and have every intention of keeping those vows.
Not that I have been able to in the same way as I could in Community, but to the best of my ability, I have maintained my chastity, poverty and obedience.

He saw to bless me with the joys of motherhood through fostering.....
He saw to fulfil my needs through work with people who experience psychological distress......
He has remained ever near and permitted experiences and challenges which would of course not have taken place in the cloister, and I have tried as far as I am able my utmost for His Highest.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Thank you for all the replies! I realize it's a sensitive subject and I apologize if my post has reminded anyone of the difficulties they faced in their own journey...

this thread made me think about how different each person's journey is, and I guess I really can't say what mine would be like.

[Orans]

[quote name='MarysLittleFlower' timestamp='1352581542' post='2507856']
this thread made me think about how different each person's journey is, and I guess I really can't say what mine would be like.
[/quote]

I think that nobody can say what their journey would be, nobody. But I also believe that our personal decisions in response to life are even more important than all the odds in ourselves and in the circumstances. We know that there is an absolute given, which is the love and fidelity of God . Everything else is weak and limited -and this includes not only ourselves but also religious communities, families, and even holy people.

This is the way life is for everyone.

Whether the circumstances for leaving a community were my fault, somebody else's fault, or nobody's fault, the fact is that "I" have to respond to them and deal with it. And yes, I will suffer and maybe even feel that God has abandoned me, or doesn't care .... or that I no longer care about God . But the fact is that I can take ownership of my ability -and responsibility to choose and do so in a direction that will or will not be life giving -because I can also decide to remain stuck.

We will never fully own our life. It belongs to God and is given to us to live it out. If we want to have it fulfilled and find happiness we would rather choose to live it on God's terms. God is the Lord . All His works are Mercy and Love , and He is always as close to us as we would allow Him to be . We need only to say that word - HELP!!!!!! - (which sometimes might be the best possible prayer, or the only one we can utter) to open the door to God's Grace that is always available and "hovering over" us waiting for some little "landing" spot to get in .

So even though it is true that we cannot be sure about what our life will hold for us, we can be CERTAIN that God will be there for us and with us to face whatever comes our way. Every individual life is a team work -a dance- of the person with God, plus everything and everybody else. The only real tragedy in life is to miss this partnership.

This is why I believe that prayer, trust, and risk taking -with a little humility and some patience - will take us through all and every storm in this great adventure we call life.

[StClare_OraProNobis]

Sometimes I still feel like God Himself rejected me. I became sick and needed to leave. It is hard to accept that I am not called to be His bride....None the less, I am doing better these days in accepting it.

Sometimes I still feel like God Himself rejected me. I became sick and needed to leave. It is hard to accept that I am not called to be His bride....None the less, I am doing better these days in accepting it.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='StClare_OraProNobis' timestamp='1352607044' post='2508016']
Sometimes I still feel like God Himself rejected me. I became sick and needed to leave. It is hard to accept that I am not called to be His bride....None the less, I am doing better these days in accepting it.

Sometimes I still feel like God Himself rejected me. I became sick and needed to leave. It is hard to accept that I am not called to be His bride....None the less, I am doing better these days in accepting it.
[/quote]


I am so sorry you feel that way but I understand. I felt that way when I was kicked out of Kirk Edge. I thought that God had kicked me out and that He didn't love me anymore, even though I had tried as hard as I could.

I think it is a tactic of the evil one to try to make us feel rejected and doubt's God love for us. Just because what happens to us isn't always what we think would be an expression of God's love, it doesn't mean that what is happening demonstrates a lack of love on God's part. If that were true, then all of the saints and martyrs could complain that God didn't love them because He let them suffer too. I see it differently now. When we experience suffering, it isn't always because He wants what happens, but only that He allows it to happen. He allowed His Son to be tortured and crucified, not because He WANTED it to happen, but because He knew that allowing it to happen would serve a much greater purpose - the redemption of mankind.

If we can try to see all suffering as having the potential to be redemptive, we can turn it around for ourselves into something beautiful - a sign that God is trusting us to have faith in Him and to know that He will always love us, no matter what happens to us.

Becoming sick isn't a punishment from God. But the consequences of that are something we need to use to help us to come closer to Him. You CAN become His bride in your heart if you want. It is what has kept me sane these past five years, knowing that I belong to Him, with or without the official recognition of that fact. you might say to me, 'Easy for you to say, you're going back to Carmel.' and I would understand that. But I can honestly say that it was only AFTER I had acknowledged in my heart that I was His bride and that nothing would ever take that away from me that I think I was trusting enough to allow Him to move heaven and earth to make that a reality in this life as well. And since I am not yet inside that enclosure, and there is 'many a slip twixt the cup and the lip' (Shakespeare) - meaning anything could happen to prevent me returning or to cause me to leave again (illness, as you point out, is one obstacle) - my only reality right now is the one in my heart.

Don't ever let yourself believe that God has rejected you - He wants you more even than you want Him, I know this for sure in my heart. Trust Him and let Him heal your pain. Take it all to Jesus and ask him to comfort you.

Rest in His love.